MR

OK - I found this, haven't seen where it was posted before. One of you guys said you don't feel the rock in this guy. Well, based on this I would have to agree with you although songs are recorded for what they think might sell.

I'm in line with a lot of folks and we'll just wait till we hear the new Journey music.

Just give us the music

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69ayLeDI0vY

Found that earlier and considered posting as well. Nice vocal overall. Not mind blowing, but certainly has more heart than anything Augeri did. The guy can certainly sing. If Arnel was on American Idol, he'd be someone to watch as a contender. At least here, we can tell that he has his own voice. He's not just a Perry impersonator.

The real questions are, will he be using his own voice on the new tracks or is he going to use Perryisms? If it's his own voice, what will his voice sound like over Jon Cain's material with Cain's melodies? Will it have the 'it' factor?

Time will tell.

STORY_TELLER wrote:Found that earlier and considered posting as well. Nice vocal overall. Not mind blowing, but certainly has more heart than anything Augeri did. The guy can certainly sing. If Arnel was on American Idol, he'd be someone to watch as a contender. At least here, we can tell that he has his own voice. He's not just a Perry impersonator.

The real questions are, will he be using his own voice on the new tracks or is he going to use Perryisms? If it's his own voice, what will his voice sound like over Jon Cain's material with Cain's melodies? Will it have the 'it' factor?

Time will tell.

I agree with you. Just figured it would get out here eventually. The guy is so talented and has a lot of vocal ability; the question has to come up is this his natural voice or one to fit the music.? I guess I don't know the meaning of natural voice. It seems everyone sings in a voice they expect the public to appreciate at the time.

I'm sure some of the experts on the forum will put me in my place.

RocknRoll wrote:

STORY_TELLER wrote:Found that earlier and considered posting as well. Nice vocal overall. Not mind blowing, but certainly has more heart than anything Augeri did. The guy can certainly sing. If Arnel was on American Idol, he'd be someone to watch as a contender. At least here, we can tell that he has his own voice. He's not just a Perry impersonator.

The real questions are, will he be using his own voice on the new tracks or is he going to use Perryisms? If it's his own voice, what will his voice sound like over Jon Cain's material with Cain's melodies? Will it have the 'it' factor?

Time will tell.

I agree with you. Just figured it would get out here eventually. The guy is so talented and has a lot of vocal ability; the question has to come up is this his natural voice or one to fit the music.? I guess I don't know the meaning of natural voice. It seems everyone sings in a voice they expect the public to appreciate at the time.

I'm sure some of the experts on the forum will put me in my place.

It's his natural voice.

A vocalist only changes his natural leanings if he's adapting it to someone else's song (ie. trying to sing a song originated by Steve Perry or any other uniquely styled vocalist) or he's so overpowered by his artistic influences that he doesn't know how to sound like something other than the artist he's imitated for so long. (I can name some names here, but I don't want to start a shit storm )

STORY_TELLER wrote:

RocknRoll wrote:

STORY_TELLER wrote:Found that earlier and considered posting as well. Nice vocal overall. Not mind blowing, but certainly has more heart than anything Augeri did. The guy can certainly sing. If Arnel was on American Idol, he'd be someone to watch as a contender. At least here, we can tell that he has his own voice. He's not just a Perry impersonator.

The real questions are, will he be using his own voice on the new tracks or is he going to use Perryisms? If it's his own voice, what will his voice sound like over Jon Cain's material with Cain's melodies? Will it have the 'it' factor?

Time will tell.

I agree with you. Just figured it would get out here eventually. The guy is so talented and has a lot of vocal ability; the question has to come up is this his natural voice or one to fit the music.? I guess I don't know the meaning of natural voice. It seems everyone sings in a voice they expect the public to appreciate at the time.

I'm sure some of the experts on the forum will put me in my place.

It's his natural voice.

A vocalist only changes his natural leanings if he's adapting it to someone else's song (ie. trying to sing a song originated by Steve Perry or any other uniquely styled vocalist) or he's so overpowered by his artistic influences that he doesn't know how to sound like something other than the artist he's imitated for so long. (I can name some names here, but I don't want to start a shit storm )

I agree with the above.

Meanwhile, with regards to SP, his solo work can't be compared to Journey's (as lead singer) being around Neal and Cain. In the same way, I think Arnel would be adusting to the way his environment allows him. He's got the pipes, just need some great songs. I trust Caveman in his appreciation for Arnel's abilities. Let see how it goes...

I like his natural voice. Kinda reminds me of Augeri.

Rick wrote:I like his natural voice. Kinda reminds me of Augeri.

Ive also said similarly. Not everyone agrees though.

MarcelJordan wrote:Meanwhile, with regards to SP, his solo work can't be compared to Journey's (as lead singer) being around Neal and Cain. In the same way, I think Arnel would be adusting to the way his environment allows him. He's got the pipes, just need some great songs. I trust Caveman in his appreciation for Arnel's abilities. Let see how it goes...

He's definitely produced better material when collaborating with Neal and Jon, but at the same time, the two of them haven't produced material as good as when they've worked with Perry either. The 3 of them together have a magical chemistry that's not easily found. It's their differences brought together that yields the better work, but as often happens, those differences raise creative control issues.

I don't think we're going to hear much of Arnel on this new material other than his voice. He's stated in interviews he had to learn the songs they brought him in to sing pretty quickly before recording them. They didn't give Augeri (or Dean for that matter) much creative leeway on Arrival either. In that respect, the new material will probably be another arrival album but with Arnel on vocals. I was underwhelmed by Arrival. Unless Caveman stepped in and took over Perry's role in steering the ship, I'm not optimistic. Even still, wasn't he also involved with Arrival too?

Neal and Jon need Steve, not just as a singer, but as a songwriter.

Rick wrote:I like his natural voice. Kinda reminds me of Augeri.

The only comparison to Augeri (or Perry for that matter) is their tone. They're all in the tenor range, although I think Arnel's tone is slightly lower in register than either Perry or Augeri.

Arnel is 10 times the vocalist Augeri ever was. Augeri's vocal chords at their peak produce simple tones with weak vibrato. Perry was practically operatic with amazing breath control that could hold notes for eons. Arnel is no Steve Perry, but still much more sophisticated than Augeri ever was.

In that respect, Arnel is a step up in vocals for the group (although, so was JSS, which I suspect is why even though he wasn't a tenor, fans embraced his rendition of Perry's songs. They'd been fed hamburger for 8 years with Augeri and when they heard Jeff, they finally remembered what a piece of steak tasted like, lol...)

STORY_TELLER wrote:

Rick wrote:I like his natural voice. Kinda reminds me of Augeri.

The only comparison to Augeri (or Perry for that matter) is their tone. They're all in the tenor range, although I think Arnel's tone is slightly lower in register than either Perry or Augeri.

Arnel is 10 times the vocalist Augeri ever was. Augeri's vocal chords at their peak produce simple tones with weak vibrato. Perry was practically operatic with amazing breath control that could hold notes for eons. Arnel is no Steve Perry, but still much more sophisticated than Augeri ever was.

In that respect, Arnel is a step up in vocals for the group (although, so was JSS, which I suspect is why even though he wasn't a tenor, fans embraced his rendition of Perry's songs. They'd been fed hamburger for 8 years with Augeri and when they heard Jeff, they finally remembered what a piece of steak tasted like, lol...)

Yep, you're a loon.

Not a bad thing altogether.

I agree though, Perry had no peers. Why is it that good things never last?

STORY_TELLER wrote: Unless Caveman stepped in and took over Perry's role in steering the ship, I'm not optimistic. Even still, wasn't he also involved with Arrival too?

Neal and Jon need Steve, not just as a singer, but as a songwriter.

I think you're assumption is fair. However, we're the ones though still in the dark of how they are and how they sound. It just remains to be seen (or heard).

Im excited though for one thing...when Caveman said the music is "state of the art". How cool is that?

Rick wrote: Why is it that good things never last?

I'm a firm believer that most extraordinarily talented people must have something wrong with them. They can't be that talented and be normal at the same time. It's the universe's way of maintaining some kind of balance with the rest of us lesser folk.

STORY_TELLER wrote:

Rick wrote: Why is it that good things never last?

I'm a firm believer that most extraordinarily talented people must have something wrong with them. They can't be that talented and be normal at the same time. It's the universe's way of maintaining some kind of balance with the rest of us lesser folk.

The best explanation I've heard so far. Makes me feel a lot better about it all.

MarcelJordan wrote:Im excited though for one thing...when Caveman said the music is "state of the art". How cool is that?

To be honest, I really don't know what to make of that. Does he mean the music is modern? Or does he mean it was recorded with today's contemporary over produced mixing approach and protooled like crazy? The only thing I read as truly positive is how Kevin said he's been keeping them focused. I'd really give it up if we got another mishmash like Generations.

STORY_TELLER wrote:

MarcelJordan wrote:Im excited though for one thing...when Caveman said the music is "state of the art". How cool is that?

To be honest, I really don't know what to make of that. Does he mean the music is modern? Or does he mean it was recorded with today's contemporary over produced mixing approach and protooled like crazy? The only thing I read as truly positive is how Kevin said he's been keeping them focused. I'd really give it up if we got another mishmash like Generations.

Good point. My first impression was that Caveman was thoroughly excited and happy with their sound (the band themselves). Meanwhile, for me state of the art, would be closer to the sound of ROR (not sure whether that's a bad thing for others, I liked it ). At the same time, he was honest about the focus part. Generations didn't involve Caveman so we're safe for now.

MarcelJordan wrote:

STORY_TELLER wrote:

MarcelJordan wrote:Im excited though for one thing...when Caveman said the music is "state of the art". How cool is that?

To be honest, I really don't know what to make of that. Does he mean the music is modern? Or does he mean it was recorded with today's contemporary over produced mixing approach and protooled like crazy? The only thing I read as truly positive is how Kevin said he's been keeping them focused. I'd really give it up if we got another mishmash like Generations.

Good point. My first impression was that Caveman was thoroughly excited and happy with their sound (the band themselves). Meanwhile, for me state of the art, would be closer to the sound of ROR (not sure whether that's a bad thing for others, I liked it ). At the same time, he was honest about the focus part. Generations didn't involve Caveman so we're safe for now.

He certainly does seem enthusiastic and excited. I hope it's honest and not just hype. Very rare for anyone to post negative things about people they're working with. I approach all of this with a grain of salt. I'll give the music a fair listen, but the band has an uphill battle on their hands (with most of us I think). They have a huge history of quality music to live up to.

ROR was very pop with its mechanical drumming and overpowering bass, Neal was almost completely sidelined and Perry was in a dark place when he wrote those songs, so that wouldn't be my first choice for the next album. Still, if I could get at least a ROR I'd be happy. Still better than Arrival.

I'd kill to have another Frontiers era album from them. Not the b-side experimental stuff, but the a-side plus all the stuff that wasn't included like Ask the Lonely, Only Solutions, Liberty, Only the Young, etc. If they produced those level of songs, even without Perry singing them, I'd be impressed. Don't want to set myself up for disappointment though, so I'm taking a completely fair minded wait and see attitude.

Outside of a few things I heard him sing on YouTube recently, Arnel's never performed a slow song like that before that I can recall. He's always done material that involved very challenging vocal ranges. Plus I've never heard him sing to acoustic guitar only. This song reminds me a lot of a "Tears In Heaven" type of song, both in the vocal range and guitar. I'm not so wild about this song of Arnels, maybe because I'm spoiled and I'm so used to the other stuff I know him for singing. It's just my own belief that the new album that's supposedly coming out soon from Journey won't be this mellow. Maybe one of the last tracks on the cd may be a bit mellow like that. We'll just have to wait and see.

when i saw the clip of Arnel singing "Faithfully".....it was overloaded with Perryisms.

call me biased

meh

MrsPerry wrote:when i saw the clip of Arnel singing "Faithfully".....it was overloaded with Perryisms.

call me biased

Of course it is. You can't not sing a Perry era Journey tune without the Perry stylings. Anyone who's familiar with the original songs would be disappointed if it wasn't recreated the way it was originally made popular.

The question is, to what degree are they going to float Perry's artistry over the new material? I expect it to be all over the old stuff. That's their "legacy sound" which they wanted to return to. Even Jeff through in some Perryisms on the demo of winds of freedom, which was an original song not penned or sung by Perry.

Like it or not, Perry's vocal approach is recognized as part of the Journey sound just as much as Neal's guitar or Cain's keyboards. If I hear a perryism here and there on the new stuff I won't mind, but if they try to recreate Perry like they did with Augeri, I'm off this boat.

The Sushi Hunter wrote:Outside of a few things I heard him sing on YouTube recently, Arnel's never performed a slow song like that before that I can recall. He's always done material that involved very challenging vocal ranges. Plus I've never heard him sing to acoustic guitar only. This song reminds me a lot of a "Tears In Heaven" type of song, both in the vocal range and guitar. I'm not so wild about this song of Arnels, maybe because I'm spoiled and I'm so used to the other stuff I know him for singing. It's just my own belief that the new album that's supposedly coming out soon from Journey won't be this mellow. Maybe one of the last tracks on the cd may be a bit mellow like that. We'll just have to wait and see.

I think pulling back and instilling a soft emotion can be a challenge vocally too. Augeri certainly couldn't handle a ballad like this. The song doesn't do anything for me per se, but I'm separating the song from the vocal the same way I separated Jeff's vocal from winds of freedom.

STORY_TELLER wrote:

Rick wrote:I like his natural voice. Kinda reminds me of Augeri.

The only comparison to Augeri (or Perry for that matter) is their tone. They're all in the tenor range, although I think Arnel's tone is slightly lower in register than either Perry or Augeri.

Arnel is 10 times the vocalist Augeri ever was. Augeri's vocal chords at their peak produce simple tones with weak vibrato. Perry was practically operatic with amazing breath control that could hold notes for eons. Arnel is no Steve Perry, but still much more sophisticated than Augeri ever was.

In that respect, Arnel is a step up in vocals for the group (although, so was JSS, which I suspect is why even though he wasn't a tenor, fans embraced his rendition of Perry's songs. They'd been fed hamburger for 8 years with Augeri and when they heard Jeff, they finally remembered what a piece of steak tasted like, lol...)

I disagree with you,post some Tall Stories, Steve A would fucking blow him away.His voice sounded raspy ,imagine how it will sound after playing 6 nights a week from spring till winter this year,You know The band will milk him for all he has. That being said, I like this song and he sounds good on it. If he can sing this song again by the end of the year after singing for the Journey machine, he will be doing something

stevew2 wrote:I disagree with you,post some Tall Stories, Steve A would fucking blow him away.His voice sounded raspy ,imagine how it will sound after playing 6 nights a week from spring till winter this year,You know The band will milk him for all he has. That being said, I like this song and he sounds good on it. If he can sing this song again by the end of the year after singing for the Journey machine, he will be doing something

Stevew,

Glad you like Augeri. It means you're happy with the music created with him which means you have more music to enjoy from this band than me, so in that respect, I'd say you're better off (smiles).

I happen to have very high standards and every Augeri recording I've heard doesn't rise to my threshold. My ears key into deeper executions and shun the simplistic (unless it's an intentional choice which works for the song). To my ears, Augeri's chops are simple surface technique at best. It lacks the soul, heart and depth I hear in every Perry era recording (or anything from JSS for that matter).

As far as the Arnel/Augeri touring comparison goes, well, I think you're definitely overstating Augeri here.

How do you know Augeri didn't have abnormally weak chords to begin with? On the very first tour, Augeri was having to see a vocal coach and perform all kinds of preventative maintenance (on stage) to maintain his voice, whereas Herbie Herbert touted Kevin Chalfant as a guy who would wolf down a cheeseburger moments before running out on stage and performing a set without missing a note. Sorry, I happen to think Augeri was just born with weaker chords and it was only a matter of time before they blew singing this catalogue.

I have the tall stories cassette. I think Augeri sounded a heck of a lot better with tall stories than he did with Journey, but that was also when he was in his 20's. Even still, Augeri simply doesn't have sophisticated pipes. It's not an insult, it's a fact. He wasn't born with a sophisticated instrument. It's not something he can control or choose to change. It just is.

Perry, JSS, Arnel, hell even Jeremy, all have more sophisticated chords to work with than Augeri did. What each of them does with what they have artistically is another matter. Understanding how to convey emotion or infuse soul (especially on original material) with their instrument, that's where the talent lies. Augeri, nice guy I'm sure, is simply outclassed by them all and he never should have been in Journey to begin with. Bad choice on Neal's part. Talent wise, he should have gone with John West. Must stronger vocalist and even Neal said he sounded more like Perry than Augeri did at the time of auditions. Augeri is probably the nicer guy and I think that's why he chose him.

Additionally, I don't think Arnel sounds unintentionally or uncontrollably raspy on this track. I think he's choosing to do that with his voice for artistic effect as none of the other zoo tracks I've heard have that raspy sound.

Not championing Arnel per se, just being fair minded with the comparisons. Arnel is simply a stronger vocalist overall. The fact that he can handle so many different songs by so many different singers is a testament to that. What he does with Journey remains to be seen. I'm waiting to hear what comes before I lay a judgement on the guy, but no matter what, I still say he's a step up in vocalist from Augeri. He just wasn't good enough.

I tried to reply to you 5 times, either im fucked up, or my computer is acting wierd.Ill try again later. Steve A. was fucking good, I ll leave it at that for now