OT: U.S. Troop Suicides Increase Dramatically

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Should the USA have ever invaded Iraq to begin with?

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OT: U.S. Troop Suicides Increase Dramatically

Postby Voyager » Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:07 am

All I can say is we need to get the fuck out of Iraq. We have absolutely no right or reason to be there.

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Every day, five U.S. soldiers try to kill themselves. Before the Iraq war began, that figure was less than one suicide attempt a day.

A U.S. soldier patrols the streets of Baghdad in January.

The dramatic increase is revealed in new U.S. Army figures, which show 2,100 soldiers tried to commit suicide in 2007.

"Suicide attempts are rising and have risen over the last five years," said Col. Elspeth Cameron-Ritchie, an Army psychiatrist.

Concern over the rate of suicide attempts prompted Sen. Jim Webb, D-Virginia, to introduce legislation Thursday to improve the military's suicide-prevention programs.

"Our troops and their families are under unprecedented levels of stress due to the pace and frequency of more than five years of deployments," Webb said in a written statement. Watch CNN Senior Pentagon Correspondent Jamie McIntyre on the reasons for the increase in suicides »

Sen. Patty Murray, D-Washington, took to the Senate floor Thursday, urging more help for military members, especially for those returning from war.

"Our brave service members who face deployment after deployment without the rest, recovery and treatment they need are at the breaking point," Murray said.

She said Congress has given "hundreds of millions of dollars" to the military to improve its ability to provide mental health treatment, but said it will take more than money to resolve the problem.

"It takes leadership and it takes a change in the culture of war," she said. She said some soldiers had reported receiving nothing more than an 800 number to call for help.

"Many soldiers need a real person to talk to," she said. "And they need psychiatrists and they need psychologists."

According to Army statistics, the incidence of U.S. Army soldiers attempting suicide or inflicting injuries on themselves has skyrocketed in the nearly five years since the start of the Iraq war.

Last year's 2,100 attempted suicides -- an average of more than 5 per day -- compares with about 350 suicide attempts in 2002, the year before the war in Iraq began, according to the Army.

The figures also show the number of suicides by active-duty troops in 2007 may reach an all-time high when the statistics are finalized in March, Army officials said.

The Army lists 89 soldier deaths in 2007 as suicides and is investigating 32 more as possible suicides. Suicide rates already were up in 2006 with 102 deaths, compared with 87 in 2005.

Cameron-Ritchie, the Army psychiatrist, said suicide attempts are usually related to problems with intimate relationships, but they are also related to problems with work, finances and the law.

"The really tough area here is stigma. We know that soldiers don't want to go seek care. They're tough, they're strong, they don't want to go see a behavioral health-care provider," Cameron-Ritchie said.

Multiple deployments and long deployments appear to exact a toll on relationships, thereby boosting the number of suicide attempts, she said.

Traditionally, the suicide rate among military members has been lower than age- and gender-matched civilians. But in recent years the rate has crept up from 12 per 100,000 among the military to 17.5 per 100,000 in 2006, she said. That's still less than the civilian figure of about 20 per 100,000, she said.

The "typical" soldier who commits suicide is a member of an infantry unit who uses a firearm to carry out the act, according to the Army.

Post-traumatic stress disorder also may be a factor in suicide attempts, Cameron-Ritchie said, because it can result in broken relationships and often leads to drug and alcohol abuse.

"The real central issue is relationships. Relationships, relationships, relationships," said U.S. Army Chaplain Lt. Col. Ran Dolinger. "People look at PTSD, they look at length of deployments ... but it's that broken relationship that really makes the difference."

To reduce suicides, the Army said it is targeting soldiers who are or have been in Iraq for long periods and teaching them to notice signs that can lead to suicide.

That training came too late for Army Specialist Tim Bowman. The 23-year-old killed himself in 2005 after returning from Iraq.

"As my family was preparing for a 2005 Thanksgiving meal, our son Timothy was lying on the floor, slowly bleeding to death from a self-inflicted gunshot wound," said his father, Mike Bowman, in testimony to a House Veterans' Affairs committee hearing in December. "His war was now over."

He said veterans return home to find an "understaffed, under-funded, under-equipped" Veterans Affairs mental health system.

"Many just give up trying," he said.


I sure hope Obama or Hillary gets elected and get us the hell out of there as fast as possible.

8)
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Re: OT: U.S. Troop Suicides Increase Dramatically

Postby ohsherrie » Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:28 am

Voyager wrote:All I can say is we need to get the fuck out of Iraq. We have absolutely no right or reason to be there.

I sure hope Obama or Hillary gets elected and get us the hell out of there as fast as possible.

8)


Me too Voyager. :cry:
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Postby Rockindeano » Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:52 am

Obama said, " We need to be more cautious getting out, than as careless as we got into Iraq."

The biggest foreign policy blunder in US history, period. Congratulations GOP.

And a sincere thank you to Bush for galvanizing the Dems. The end is near!
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Postby weatherman90 » Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:04 am

Rockindeano wrote:Obama said, " We need to be more cautious getting out, than as careless as we got into Iraq."

The biggest foreign policy blunder in US history, period. Congratulations GOP.

And a sincere thank you to Bush for galvanizing the Dems. The end is near!


I don't want to be near you on November 4 when Mitt Romney wins the election. :lol:
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Postby Voyager » Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:07 am

weatherman90 wrote:I don't want to be near you on November 4 when Mitt Romney wins the election. :lol:


LOL! The only thing Romney is doing is throwing away tens of millions of dollars of his own money on a doomed campaign. Personally, I would consider that very foolish.

8)
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Postby Enigma869 » Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:09 am

weatherman90 wrote:
I don't want to be near you on November 4 when Mitt Romney wins the election. :lol:


Dude...if you seriously think a Morman from liberal Massachusetts has ANY shot of ever being elected president, you don't pay very close attention to politics! Not only won't Romney win the election, McCain will be the nominee, and will be completely smoked, by whomever the Democratic nominee is! The Democrats Are Coming!!!!!!!


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Postby ohsherrie » Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:10 am

Rockindeano wrote:Obama said, " We need to be more cautious getting out, than as careless as we got into Iraq."

The biggest foreign policy blunder in US history, period. Congratulations GOP.

And a sincere thank you to Bush for galvanizing the Dems. The end is near!


I've even changed my mind about voting for Obama. It's become imperative to get the fuckin' reps out of power.
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Postby Saint John » Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:15 am

Regardless of which candidate wins the election I'm still going to have a good job, still going to have excellent health insurance and still going to have enough emergency money set aside so that if I do lose my job I can go two years without working. It's all part of this plan called becoming educated, finding the right job, working hard, saving and planning for emergencies!!! Really quite simple. I know a LOT of people that fall into the "I've lost my job. It's moved to China" bullshit. They bought new cars, they had no savings, their kids wore $120 gym shoes, they went to Vegas once or twice a year, they had designer clothes, and now it's crunch time and it's woe is me. Too bad. Companies like McDonalds, and Walgreens offer excellent benefits and it's not hard to find employment there. Quit crying, suck it up and try a fucking career change. Pussies.
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Postby Higgy » Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:15 am

Rockindeano wrote:Obama said, " We need to be more cautious getting out, than as careless as we got into Iraq."

The biggest foreign policy blunder in US history, period. Congratulations GOP.

And a sincere thank you to Bush for galvanizing the Dems. The end is near!


Watch the Dems blow it - as they always do. They'll throw Hillary up against McCain and they will lose. I really hate Bush, but I also hate that the only alternative to the republicans is this Democratic party, filled with ignorant fat women who ride rascals in Wal-Mart.

Go green!
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Postby scarygirl » Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:18 am

Saint John wrote:Regardless of which candidate wins the election I'm still going to have a good job, still going to have excellent health insurance and still going to have enough emergency money set aside so that if I do lose my job I can go two years without working. It's all part of this plan called becoming educated, finding the right job, working hard, saving and planning for emergencies!!! Really quite simple. I know a LOT of people that fall into the "I've lost my job. It's moved to China" bullshit. They bought new cars, they had no savings, their kids wore $120 gym shoes, they went to Vegas once or twice a year, they had designer clothes, and now it's crunch time and it's woe is me. Too bad. Companies like McDonalds, and Walgreens offer excellent benefits and it's not hard to find employment there. Quit crying, suck it up and try a fucking career change. Pussies.


I believe you can also add Star Bucks to that list. It is my understanding they offer health insurance to all their employees.
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Postby weatherman90 » Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:23 am

Voyager wrote:
weatherman90 wrote:I don't want to be near you on November 4 when Mitt Romney wins the election. :lol:


LOL! The only thing Romney is doing is throwing away tens of millions of dollars of his own money on a doomed campaign. Personally, I would consider that very foolish.

8)


I actually think he stopped financing his own campaign at this point. I could be wrong though.

He is a long shot for the nomination and I'm not afraid to admit it.
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Postby ohsherrie » Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:31 am

Well whoopee for you Dan. How fuckin' many family members have you supported along the way? Do you have any fuckin' idea what it's like someone who has a spouse(who has also lost their job and benefits as is the case in most plant closings) and kids to start over at McDonalds? How stupid of me to ask. :roll: Of course you don't. You're ignorant and stupid enough to be proud to be so.
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Postby Barb » Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:32 am

ohsherrie wrote:Well whoopee for you Dan. How fuckin' many family members have you supported along the way? Do you have any fuckin' idea what it's like someone who has a spouse(who has also lost their job and benefits as is the case in most plant closings) and kids to start over at McDonalds? How stupid of me to ask. :roll: Of course you don't. You're ignorant and stupid enough to be proud to be so.


If someone were to track how many times you called someone stupid or ignorant and present it to you, would you be embarrassed? Just asking.
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Postby ohsherrie » Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:40 am

Barb wrote:
ohsherrie wrote:Well whoopee for you Dan. How fuckin' many family members have you supported along the way? Do you have any fuckin' idea what it's like someone who has a spouse(who has also lost their job and benefits as is the case in most plant closings) and kids to start over at McDonalds? How stupid of me to ask. :roll: Of course you don't. You're ignorant and stupid enough to be proud to be so.


If someone were to track how many times you called someone stupid or ignorant and present it to you, would you be embarrassed? Just asking.


No. It's true and you all deserved it a lot more than the people in this country deserve what the republicans' Bush adminis tration has brought down on them in the last 7 years.
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Postby Lula » Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:46 am

it is truly a sad time when the great USA does not take care of her vets. the lack of treatment for the various disorders, benefits to care for injuries, housing... the lack of respect and compassion is an absolute disgrace.
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Postby conversationpc » Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:49 am

Considering the rather strong language that many libs were using against Iraq even while Clinton was still in office, I'm not so sure we'd be in any different a situation than we are now. Both Bill and Hillary, Kerry, and several other leading libs were saying the same kinds of things, some stronger, than Bush did when he came into office.

Face it folks, if you trust either party overall to do what's right, you're fooling yourselves. You need to look at individual candidates, some Republicans, some Democrats, some Libertarians, etc., instead of picking one party over another. BOTH of the major parties are filled with corrupt, selfish, and inept politicians.

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Postby ohsherrie » Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:57 am

conversationpc wrote:Considering the rather strong language that many libs were using against Iraq even while Clinton was still in office, I'm not so sure we'd be in any different a situation than we are now. Both Bill and Hillary, Kerry, and several other leading libs were saying the same kinds of things, some stronger, than Bush did when he came into office.

Face it folks, if you trust either party overall to do what's right, you're fooling yourselves. You need to look at individual candidates, some Republicans, some Democrats, some Libertarians, etc., instead of picking one party over another. BOTH of the major parties are filled with corrupt, selfish, and inept politicians.

Image


I agree with a lot of what you said, and I absolutely agree with your sig.

The big difference though Dave is that nobody but Dumbya, Cheney and Rumsfeld would have gone to war with Iraq using the excuse of 9/11. They orchestrated it from the beginning and it's still all on them.
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Postby Voyager » Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:58 am

conversationpc wrote:Considering the rather strong language that many libs were using against Iraq even while Clinton was still in office, I'm not so sure we'd be in any different a situation than we are now. Both Bill and Hillary, Kerry, and several other leading libs were saying the same kinds of things, some stronger, than Bush did when he came into office.

Face it folks, if you trust either party overall to do what's right, you're fooling yourselves. You need to look at individual candidates, some Republicans, some Democrats, some Libertarians, etc., instead of picking one party over another. BOTH of the major parties are filled with corrupt, selfish, and inept politicians.


Great points. That's why I will be pushing for an Obama/Paul 2008 ticket.

:lol:
Last edited by Voyager on Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby conversationpc » Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:58 am

ohsherrie wrote:The big difference though Dave is that nobody but Dumbya, Cheney and Rumsfeld would have gone to war with Iraq using the excuse of 9/11. They orchestrated it from the beginning and it's still all on them.


Did they use 9/11, though, or was it a link to Al Qaeda?
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Postby Barb » Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:58 am

Sherrie, how can you say "it's all on them" when the person you are supporting for President voted FOR the war as did many other Democrats. Some might call that ignorant. :roll:
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Postby conversationpc » Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:00 pm

Barb wrote:Sherrie, how can you say "it's all on them" when the person you are supporting for President voted FOR the war as did many other Democrats. Some might call that ignorant. :roll:


"But they were lied to by Dumbya and Darth Vader so we could go to war for oil and Halliburton" Image
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Postby SteveForever » Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:00 pm

Calling someone names over and over and insults really is the lowest class of debating.
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Postby Barb » Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:01 pm

SteveForever wrote:Calling someone names over and over and insults really is the lowest class of debating.


It's not even debating. It's showing you're completely without a valid argument.
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Postby SteveForever » Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:03 pm

Barb wrote:
SteveForever wrote:Calling someone names over and over and insults really is the lowest class of debating.


It's not even debating. It's showing you're completely without a valid argument.


oh and how many times can people say "f" you? how is that even intelligent?
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Postby ohsherrie » Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:09 pm

conversationpc wrote:
ohsherrie wrote:The big difference though Dave is that nobody but Dumbya, Cheney and Rumsfeld would have gone to war with Iraq using the excuse of 9/11. They orchestrated it from the beginning and it's still all on them.


Did they use 9/11, though, or was it a link to Al Qaeda?


You know the answer I'm going to give you to that Dave, and I'm not going to go into that again. I've learned that it's useless to argue with anyone who hasn't learned the truth yet. They're obviously not capable of learning so why try to enlighten them. Image
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Postby conversationpc » Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:13 pm

ohsherrie wrote:
conversationpc wrote:
ohsherrie wrote:The big difference though Dave is that nobody but Dumbya, Cheney and Rumsfeld would have gone to war with Iraq using the excuse of 9/11. They orchestrated it from the beginning and it's still all on them.


Did they use 9/11, though, or was it a link to Al Qaeda?


You know the answer I'm going to give you to that Dave, and I'm not going to go into that again. I've learned that it's useless to argue with anyone who hasn't learned the truth yet. They're obviously not capable of learning so why try to enlighten them. Image


You sound like a damn cult leader, which is about what this "hate Bush at any cost" crowd is.
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Postby ohsherrie » Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:16 pm

Barb wrote:
SteveForever wrote:Calling someone names over and over and insults really is the lowest class of debating.


It's not even debating. It's showing you're completely without a valid argument.


You've both got it wrong. Attacking my "words" rather than the truths of them only proves my point.

There are a few people who call themselves republicans on here whose intelligence and reasoning I can respect, well maybe one or two anyway, but for the most part you people really scare me, and not because of your power or ferocity.
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Postby conversationpc » Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:22 pm

ohsherrie wrote:There are a few people who call themselves republicans on here...


If you're referring to me, I don't know how many times I have to say that I'm not a Republican.
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Postby Barb » Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:24 pm

conversationpc wrote:
ohsherrie wrote:There are a few people who call themselves republicans on here...


If you're referring to me, I don't know how many times I have to say that I'm not a Republican.


If you disagree with her, you are a Republican. I'm not a Republican either. None of that matters. Just know, we are the stupid, and we are the enemy! :lol:
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Postby ohsherrie » Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:24 pm

conversationpc wrote:
ohsherrie wrote:
conversationpc wrote:
ohsherrie wrote:The big difference though Dave is that nobody but Dumbya, Cheney and Rumsfeld would have gone to war with Iraq using the excuse of 9/11. They orchestrated it from the beginning and it's still all on them.


Did they use 9/11, though, or was it a link to Al Qaeda?


You know the answer I'm going to give you to that Dave, and I'm not going to go into that again. I've learned that it's useless to argue with anyone who hasn't learned the truth yet. They're obviously not capable of learning so why try to enlighten them. Image


You sound like a damn cult leader, which is about what this "hate Bush at any cost" crowd is.


OMFG!! Image Someone who believes the Bush standard line about Iraq is talking cult to me? Nobody but a Bush cult worshipper could still possibly believe this war was just.
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