MR

First off, my apologies if this has been covered in another topic. Pressed for time here, but I wanted to post some thoughts:

I'm confused as to why the band is rushing to put out a DVD so quickly out of the gate. I wasn't at the show, and am not about to make judgement based on the youtube videos. But it sounds as if they were still shaking off the rust. Grant it, there will most likely be some post-production studio sweetening, but it doesn't seem logical to rush a project like this when you're trying to re-build your fanbase.

Also, I've never been at a show that was recorded, but I'd imagine that it's not common for a band to do a second take on a song, let alone more than one. Has anyone ever seen this before at any other shows?

My thoughts are no reflection on Arnel, but rather on the band and management. From what I've heard, this guy does have the chops and I would love to see him succeed with the band. I'm just a bit concerned with the patchwork that's involved with this project. They've already been burned once.

AV

Art Vandelay wrote:
I'm confused as to why the band is rushing to put out a DVD so quickly out of the gate.

On one hand, I agree.
But on the other hand, I'm fired up they're diving right into doing a live DVD and getting it out.

Augeri was an inexcuseable 3 tours in before they floated Journey 2001. And the filmed show was almost a year in the can prior to the release.

Better early for me than way too late. Plus I see Shirley sent them back out to redo some songs so that will help ensure high quality.

The only review I ever care about is my own, and I enjoyed the show immensely as did every single person I talked to.

Saint John wrote:The only review I ever care about is my own, and I enjoyed the show immensely as did every single person I talked to.

Good to hear! Your opinions, as well as many others here, are trusted.

Art Vandelay wrote: but it doesn't seem logical to rush a project like this when you're trying to re-build your fanbase.

They aren't trying to rebuild a fanbase. They are trying to maintain one. It's a smart move.


Secondly, many bands do retakes of filmed shows. They have to. With Youtube around, if you put out a DVD that is different than a cell phone video of the same exact song, it will be apparent that something has been done, doctored to the "live" show.

Yep, that review was odd and conflicted with ever other report/review i've read and audio and video clips posted. It seemed to imply that the songs had been slowed down to allow Pineda to sing them properly which seems odd in itself. I heard no hint of this in the YouTube clips and with those like in Chile the music sounded heavier at times, more crunching so to speak.

The review author appeared to be a disgruntled JSS fan who would rather the band have carried on in that direction desite the fact they were obviously unhappy. Surprisingly this translated to many as energy and excitement on the stage. I guess thats what you call showmanship.

Rockindeano wrote:

Art Vandelay wrote: but it doesn't seem logical to rush a project like this when you're trying to re-build your fanbase.

They aren't trying to rebuild a fanbase. They are trying to maintain one. It's a smart move.


Secondly, many bands do retakes of filmed shows. They have to. With Youtube around, if you put out a DVD that is different than a cell phone video of the same exact song, it will be apparent that something has been done, doctored to the "live" show.

Oh, I agree whole-heartedly that it's a smart move. Just questioning if they should have waited until they were a bit more polished. Again, I wasn't there so I can't judge this show. But I do think it's a split between maintaining and rebuilding the fan base. Maintaining for those who have stuck around through thick and thin, and rebuilding for those who have walked away after Perry, or for some even Augeri, but are curious to see what's going on.

I also agree with what you said about the DVD vs. youtube performances. But I think it kind of sucks at the same time, because it gives bands a pass from not giving 100% out of the gate. Sure, nobody wants to have mistakes recorded, and studio/video work helps alleviate that, but in my mind it takes away from the purity of the performance.

BTW - great pics of your family. I'm working hard on introducing my young ones to as much music as possible as well. It's a good thing.

Art Vandelay wrote:
I'm confused as to why the band is rushing to put out a DVD so quickly out of the gate.

I was also stunned when I heard Journey was recording a DVD this soon out of the gate. It really didn't make much sense to me to have a band recording a live DVD with a guy they haven't performed with, even 10 times! I would think they would want to build the chemistry, but apparently not. Let's just hope the DVD is a good one!

My favorite line from Dan's review is this gem.... "The Bay Area rock band, which plows through lead vocalists like Pamela Anderson goes through husbands"


John from Boston

Theyr'e doing the DVD to get people who walk past the new CD, to see and say, "here's a DVD of these guys. If it's good, they;ll buy the CD." I would expect that DVD to be playing in Walmart stores on release day.

Rockindeano wrote:Theyr'e doing the DVD to get people who walk past the new CD, to see and say, "here's a DVD of these guys. If it's good, they;ll buy the CD." I would expect that DVD to be playing in Walmart stores on release day.

Yep, most likely. Let's just hope it doesn't have the same effect that the Michael McDonald DVD had in The 40 Year Old Virgin.

Art Vandelay wrote:

Rockindeano wrote:Theyr'e doing the DVD to get people who walk past the new CD, to see and say, "here's a DVD of these guys. If it's good, they;ll buy the CD." I would expect that DVD to be playing in Walmart stores on release day.

Yep, most likely. Let's just hope it doesn't have the same effect that the Michael McDonald DVD had in The 40 Year Old Virgin.

Our heads must be linked up...was thinking the same thing. Yamo Be There...argh.

Rockindeano wrote:

Art Vandelay wrote:

Rockindeano wrote:Theyr'e doing the DVD to get people who walk past the new CD, to see and say, "here's a DVD of these guys. If it's good, they;ll buy the CD." I would expect that DVD to be playing in Walmart stores on release day.

Yep, most likely. Let's just hope it doesn't have the same effect that the Michael McDonald DVD had in The 40 Year Old Virgin.

Our heads must be linked up...was thinking the same thing. Yamo Be There...argh.

Cal: That's a good looking grandma! My grandma looks like Jack Palance.
Andy Stitzer: Well, she's no Jack Palance.
Cal: No. If Jack Palance looked like that lady I would want to f**k Jack Palance right now.

Enigma869 wrote:

Art Vandelay wrote:
I'm confused as to why the band is rushing to put out a DVD so quickly out of the gate.

I was also stunned when I heard Journey was recording a DVD this soon out of the gate. It really didn't make much sense to me to have a band recording a live DVD with a guy they haven't performed with, even 10 times! I would think they would want to build the chemistry, but apparently not. Let's just hope the DVD is a good one!

John from Boston

I get the impression that they need time to mix and master the dvd in time to be ready for the cd release. The deal is for a live dvd to go with the cd, and it doesn't make sense to put an Augeri-fronted show out when you are showcasing the new singer. My guess is the reason is as simple as that. No, it really doesn't make sense to record a dvd after so few shows since they will be rocking given a few months on tour (look at early Augeri or JSS shows compared to a few months later), but it's not the first time it has happened. Someone can correct me if mistaken, but I think the JSS/Yngwie video was really early into the tour also. I'm sure there are other cases. Sometimes, business ideas take precidence over good judgment.

finalfight wrote:The review author appeared to be a disgruntled JSS fan who would rather the band have carried on in that direction desite the fact they were obviously unhappy. Surprisingly this translated to many as energy and excitement on the stage. I guess thats what you call showmanship.

This doesn't make sense.
Throughout the ENTIRE tour w/ Def Leppard,
show me one clip where the band was "obviously unhappy"
w/ Soto at the helm. You won't find one. The band was firing on
all cylinders every night. There was energy and excitement there.
The ONLY time it was obvious that there was something amiss within
the JSS-era band was the one-off show in Va right before Jeff was officailly
released/fired/let go/axed/canned... however you want to say it.

Secondly, if I am not mistaken (and I could be), isn't
this "Dan" our beloved "Saint John"???
If so, your remark about him being a "disgruntled JSS fan"
couldn't be further from the mark.
Again, if this is "Saint John", you should know that he has been
one of the biggest supporters of this move from the beginning.
That being said, this could be looked at as a very honest review
from a Arnel-led-Journey Fan.
Again, I could be wrong and this Dan is not Saint John.

And I wouldn't worry if the band gets bad reviews right now.
Arnel has a lot of growing to do within this band and it's fanbase.
Worry if the band is getting reviews like this midway through the summer tour.

DIFFERENT DAN Carlitto.

Where is this review? Link please.

Carlitto H@kk wrote:

finalfight wrote:The review author appeared to be a disgruntled JSS fan who would rather the band have carried on in that direction desite the fact they were obviously unhappy. Surprisingly this translated to many as energy and excitement on the stage. I guess thats what you call showmanship.

This doesn't make sense.
Throughout the ENTIRE tour w/ Def Leppard,
show me one clip where the band was "obviously unhappy"
w/ Soto at the helm. You won't find one. The band was firing on
all cylinders every night. There was energy and excitement there.
The ONLY time it was obvious that there was something amiss within
the JSS-era band was the one-off show in Va right before Jeff was officailly
released/fired/let go/axed/canned... however you want to say it.

Secondly, if I am not mistaken (and I could be), isn't
this "Dan" our beloved "Saint John"???
If so, your remark about him being a "disgruntled JSS fan"
couldn't be further from the mark.
Again, if this is "Saint John", you should know that he has been
one of the biggest supporters of this move from the beginning.
That being said, this could be looked at as a very honest review
from a Arnel-led-Journey Fan.
Again, I could be wrong and this Dan is not Saint John.

And I wouldn't worry if the band gets bad reviews right now.
Arnel has a lot of growing to do within this band and it's fanbase.
Worry if the band is getting reviews like this midway through the summer tour.

I didn't say they looked unhappy and also mentioned how having JSS at the helm translated well onto the stage funnily enough in the part of my post you quoted but seem to have misunderstood.

If the band was happy JSS would still be with them - obviously they weren't.

yulog wrote:Where is this review? Link please.

Its on the main page -

http://www.melodicrock.com/

Thanks dude.

finalfight wrote:If the band was happy JSS would still be with them - obviously they weren't.

Exactly. Somewhere, somehow, something went wrong. Sounds like it happened either during the Europe tour or shortly thereafter. Doesn't matter why, but for the sake of the band, it is best to move on once the decision was made. You got to hear JSS and Journey at their best---you really don't want to hear them going through the motions because they were scared to get rid of him. It appears it was handled poorly, but if they weren't happy, it was best to let him go and find someone else.

kgdjpubs wrote:

finalfight wrote:If the band was happy JSS would still be with them - obviously they weren't.

Exactly. Somewhere, somehow, something went wrong. Sounds like it happened either during the Europe tour or shortly thereafter. Doesn't matter why, but for the sake of the band, it is best to move on once the decision was made. You got to hear JSS and Journey at their best---you really don't want to hear them going through the motions because they were scared to get rid of him. It appears it was handled poorly, but if they weren't happy, it was best to let him go and find someone else.

I don't think it was the band being "unhappy".
I think it was more the band not being too confident in themselves
and their fanbase.
Let's face it, as a VERY BIG JSS supporter, I can
admit that a JSS-led Journey would probably sound a bit different
than the "classic" Journey sound we all know and love.
Some of us would have welcomed that change or saw it
as a new begining for this band. But I think the majority
of the fanbase would have been turned off alittle.

And that has NOTHING to do w/ Jeff's talents as a singer/songwriter
but more to do with fan expectations. Jon and Neal seemed to have realized this.
It's easier for them to keep selling this brand-name if the "sound is the same" and finding
someone that can replicate that "classic" sound is an easier sell for them at this point in their
careers than trying to start over with something different.

Personally, I am starting to think they may have found a real gem in Arnel.
Everyone wins in this.
We get a "classic-sounding" Journey in 2008 and Jeff got a ton of exposure
that has been LONG overdue that shuold really benefit him with his next release.

Now if Augeri can put out an impressive solo project, all will be well in the Journey Universe...
until all the "Perry's in the studio" rumors start up again like they do every year

CarlittoH@kk wrote:

kgdjpubs wrote:

finalfight wrote:If the band was happy JSS would still be with them - obviously they weren't.

Exactly. Somewhere, somehow, something went wrong. Sounds like it happened either during the Europe tour or shortly thereafter. Doesn't matter why, but for the sake of the band, it is best to move on once the decision was made. You got to hear JSS and Journey at their best---you really don't want to hear them going through the motions because they were scared to get rid of him. It appears it was handled poorly, but if they weren't happy, it was best to let him go and find someone else.

I don't think it was the band being "unhappy".
I think it was more the band not being too confident in themselves
and their fanbase.

Their "fanbase" is the 200 people here plus the other 200 at the Journey board. It's 1% of the average concert attendance--if that. In the big picture, it's nothing. The real fanbase is the 19,000 average fans that don't know who is singing and go out to pretend it is the 80s again and get drunk with friends as an escape to real life.

If Journey was not confident in their fanbase, then they saw something in the concerts that people did not accept JSS fronting the band. I don't recall hearing reports that this happened.

If they were not confident in themselves, they wouldn't have named JSS permanent lead singer, only to release him 15 shows later. SOMETHING happened, either in Florida, the UK, or in closed door sessions possibly with management and record labels. There is no logical benefit to making JSS permanent if you are not intending to keep him there for a while. If they had kept him as temporary, this wouldn't have been nearly the big deal that it was.

CarlittoH@kk wrote:Let's face it, as a VERY BIG JSS supporter, I can
admit that a JSS-led Journey would probably sound a bit different
than the "classic" Journey sound we all know and love.
Some of us would have welcomed that change or saw it
as a new begining for this band. But I think the majority
of the fanbase would have been turned off alittle.

And that has NOTHING to do w/ Jeff's talents as a singer/songwriter
but more to do with fan expectations.

JSS was on record as saying the presumed Talisman/Journey cross just wasn't going to happen, and the new cd would be just your normal Journey cd with JSS singing. Journey knows better than to seriously change the style. They tried once with miserable results. Yes, it would sound a little different, but any massive change would be insignificant. The main difference that you would have seen would be replacing your soaring high tenor vocals that people associate Journey with...to a slightly lower-pitched range that fits JSS. Song-wise, I'm guessing the majority of the songs would be the same ones Arnel is singing now.

carlittoH@kk wrote: Jon and Neal seemed to have realized this.
It's easier for them to keep selling this brand-name if the "sound is the same" and finding
someone that can replicate that "classic" sound is an easier sell for them at this point in their
careers than trying to start over with something different.

Personally, I am starting to think they may have found a real gem in Arnel.
Everyone wins in this.
We get a "classic-sounding" Journey in 2008 and Jeff got a ton of exposure
that has been LONG overdue that shuold really benefit him with his next release.

Now if Augeri can put out an impressive solo project, all will be well in the Journey Universe...
until all the "Perry's in the studio" rumors start up again like they do every year

agree 100%, although a new album of original material from Chalfant/Rolie would be much anticipated. Too bad it doesn't look like it will happen.

Arnel's still a little rough (which will smooth out given a few more shows), but the guy has a monster voice, and probably the best chance of surviving touring covering Perry night in and night out for several years. He also seems to have his own style, which will help immensely.

now, who is willing to get JSS down to NC for a show once the new album comes out? Baltimore mid-week just really isn't doable for some....

kgdjpubs wrote:
now, who is willing to get JSS down to NC for a show once the new album comes out? Baltimore mid-week just really isn't doable for some....

Yeah, like who the fuck would want to go to Baltimore? Complete Shithole. Oh yeah, it leads the nation in STD's and is proudly top 10 in murders. Great great place.

Rockindeano wrote:

kgdjpubs wrote:
now, who is willing to get JSS down to NC for a show once the new album comes out? Baltimore mid-week just really isn't doable for some....

Yeah, like who the fuck would want to go to Baltimore? Complete Shithole. Oh yeah, it leads the nation in STD's and is proudly top 10 in murders. Great great place.

no issues with Baltimore other than getting there on I-95...it's the mid-week thing. Charlotte would be much better. Not necessarily safer, but considerably closer!

It's quite sad, some peoples blind ignorance to how good this new Journey could be because they cant get over the JSS issue

youkeepmewaiting wrote:It's quite sad, some peoples blind ignorance to how good this new Journey could be because they cant get over the JSS issue

Who, within THIS thread, has shown "blind ignorance" and not
gotten over the "JSS issue"???
The reviewer? Because he made a comment that the
band wasn't as exciting w/ Arnel as they were with JSS?
That's not "not getting over the JSS issue".
That's one observer's opinion.

Why do some of you take any negative criticism towards Arnel as a personal slap?

finalfight wrote:The review author appeared to be a disgruntled JSS fan.

I can guarantee you this is not the case.
It was Dan's honest view and I respect that. As I do Freddy's comments.

I have met Dan (at a Journey show no less) and have trusted his live reviews for me over a number of years.

Good honest unbiased unclouded sober reveiw

youkeepmewaiting wrote:It's quite sad, some peoples blind ignorance to how good this new Journey could be because they cant get over the JSS issue

Blind ignorance is not accepting that another person can have their own opinion.

Even I am not yet convinced of this new line-up, although the new songs sounded very interesting.

That first review reeked of sour grapes. To start and end a review talking about Jeff Scott Soto, a guy who never had one original song with the band, illustrates this. And the Pamela Anderson comment was neither funny nor professional. Look, they played 3 new Pineda-fronted songs, 1 Augeri-fronted song and the rest Perry-fronted songs, yet Soto's name is mentioned 6 times and Perry's 3. Absurd and speculative to even ponder what new music with JSS would have been like. Especially during a review of the first public concert with Pineda in the U.S.!!! The only thing that needed mentioning was that Jeff was the last singer and filled in well...nothing more. He had nary one original song with the band and all of these supposed "die hards" that left with his departure simply isn't true. And if it is, I beg you to tell me where they were on his solo tour. Rip Arnel's performance all you'd like...that's fair to do. But for the love of God, have the talent to at least mask your sour grapes a bit better. I think this guy sat through the entire concert and hurt his brains in the process.