MR

Interesting list. Talent wise, I'd rank Moss as the best I've ever seen. Rice got more out of less than any football player I've ever seen!

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/s ... id=3309223


John from Boston

Enigma869 wrote:Interesting list. Talent wise, I'd rank Moss as the best I've ever seen. Rice got more out of less than any football player I've ever seen!

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/s ... id=3309223


John from Boston

I'm glad to see Harrison made the list. He's had a great career.

funny how they left off :

golden richards

Enigma869 wrote: Rice got more out of less than any football player I've ever seen!

More out of less?
Johnno, you gotta be kidding me.
I know he only came out of Miss Valley St but he WAS a 1st rd pick for a reason. If anything that showed that his skill and physical gifts stood out.
The guy was 6-2, 200 lbs hands of gold, ballz of steel, guts of granite, had sick "pad speed," cutting ability,leaping ability and YAC savvy.
And I HATED that team.
He was the prototype of the modern WR, his nubers back it up an he got more with less?
He was SO much better than 1-dimensiona1 Moss it's a joke.
Granted, Moss' one dimension is great.

More with less is Wes Welker or say, hall of famer Tommy McDonald.

Red13JoePa wrote:
More out of less?
Johnno, you gotta be kidding me.
I know he only came out of Miss Valley St but he WAS a 1st rd pick for a reason. If anything that showed that his skill and physical gifts stood out.
The guy was 6-2, 200 lbs hands of gold, ballz of steel, guts of granite, had sick "pad speed," cutting ability,leaping ability and YAC savvy.
And I HATED that team.
He was the prototype of the modern WR, his nubers back it up an he got more with less?
He was SO much better than 1-dimensiona1 Moss it's a joke.
Granted, Moss' one dimension is great.

More with less is Wes Welker or say, hall of famer Tommy McDonald.

Joepa...

You're missing my point. When I say that Jerry Rice got more out of less, I am referring to his physical skills. Rice was not 6'4" (which is considered an ideal height for an NFL receiver) and Rice was always one of the slowest guys on the field! He was also always the smartest guy on the field, which is why he had the career he had! It's not a putdown on Rice, AT ALL. In fact, I put Rice into Larry Bird's category. Bird simply didn't have the physical skills that many of his contemporaries had, so he was forced to out-think everyone (which he was a MASTER at). Bird couldn't run...he couldn't jump, but he was always the best guy on the court!

As far as Rice being "better" than Moss...I guess it really depends on what you're referring to. I thought Randy Moss was the best receiver I had EVER seen in the NFL, his very first year with Minnesota. I'm not really a Moss fan (in spite of his Patriots connection), but I know what my eyes saw. The truth is that I have NEVER seen ANY receiver make more one-handed, acrobatic catches than Moss has made, throughout his career. I simply don't like the guy, because he has "dogged it" A LOT (something Rice NEVER did), throughout his career. Having said that, by the time Moss retires, his numbers are going to be VERY close to Rice, and he may even pass Rice in some categories. That's quite remarkable, when you consider that this guy took seasons off (his entire Oakland career). He's always been known as a guy who plays when he wants to play, and I'll NEVER respect a guy like that. I simply can't deny that he was unmatched by any receiver I've ever seen, when he felt like playing!


John from Boston

6-4 is considered BIG for a WR NOW, not ideal.

Back then though Rice had plenty of size.

And you're the first person I've ever seen describe Rice as one of the slowest guys on the field.

Red13JoePa wrote: 6-4 is considered BIG for a WR NOW, not ideal.

We'll agree to disagree on that point. You can read ANY scouting publication in the country, and EVERY pro scout will tell you that the "ideal" height for an NFL receiver is 6'4". They'd all prefer a guy even taller than that, but it obviously doesn't happen very often. Also, for the record, even though Rice was listed at 6'2" in the program, I suspect he was a whole lot closer to about 6 foot even!

Red13JoePa wrote:Back then though Rice had plenty of size.

I agree. Rice certainly played at a much heavier weight than Moss has ever been close to!

Red13JoePa wrote: And you're the first person I've ever seen describe Rice as one of the slowest guys on the field.

You can't be serious???? You do realize that throughout Rice's career, his 40 time was widely known to be about 4.7 seconds, right? That is HORRENDOUS 40 speed for a running back or a receiver! I know you understand football, so you know some linemen run the 40 faster than that! I've been watching NFL football for 30 years, and I can tell you that Rice was EASILY the slowest receiver I've EVER seen, in my life! Rice was beyond slow! Having said that, it makes his greatness all that much more remarkable, when you consider that he wasn't born with all the physical tools, required to play the position.


John from Boston

I is widely known that Rice's timed speeds were never astonishing. However, come game day, the boy could add that extra burst of breakaway speed from the defenders. He did it all time. Maybe he was just tanking it when being timed.

And I know the rest of the country hated those 49er teams of the dynasty years, but being a Bay Area native, those were great, great times. Hey even Journey was in there heyday then. Good time to be in the bay area.

SF-Dano wrote:I is widely known that Rice's timed speeds were never astonishing. However, come game day, the boy could add that extra burst of breakaway speed from the defenders. He did it all time.

My point EXACT1Y that I was trying to impart on Enigma, Dano but there's never been any te11ing John ANYthing about sports here un1ess you agree with him.

I said fast PAD SPEED, FOOTBA11 speed. We know he a1ways ran good-pedestrian 40s.
That's not to say he was s1ow, either, but mere1y above average speedwise.

Come Sunday, though, 1ook OUT.
Not to mention he had the best QB ever getting the ba11 to him.

Nobody better even ARGUE that point. There's Montana and then everybody e1se.

larryfromnextdoor wrote:funny how they left off :

golden richards

You should be castrated

4.7 seconds?! Heck, I could almost run as fast as Jerry Rice!

Red13JoePa wrote:There's Montana and then everybody e1se.

100 percent true!

Enigma869 wrote:

Red13JoePa wrote:
More out of less?
Johnno, you gotta be kidding me.
I know he only came out of Miss Valley St but he WAS a 1st rd pick for a reason. If anything that showed that his skill and physical gifts stood out.
The guy was 6-2, 200 lbs hands of gold, ballz of steel, guts of granite, had sick "pad speed," cutting ability,leaping ability and YAC savvy.
And I HATED that team.
He was the prototype of the modern WR, his nubers back it up an he got more with less?
He was SO much better than 1-dimensiona1 Moss it's a joke.
Granted, Moss' one dimension is great.

More with less is Wes Welker or say, hall of famer Tommy McDonald.

Joepa...

You're missing my point. When I say that Jerry Rice got more out of less, I am referring to his physical skills. Rice was not 6'4" (which is considered an ideal height for an NFL receiver) and Rice was always one of the slowest guys on the field! He was also always the smartest guy on the field, which is why he had the career he had! It's not a putdown on Rice, AT ALL. In fact, I put Rice into Larry Bird's category. Bird simply didn't have the physical skills that many of his contemporaries had, so he was forced to out-think everyone (which he was a MASTER at). Bird couldn't run...he couldn't jump, but he was always the best guy on the court!

As far as Rice being "better" than Moss...I guess it really depends on what you're referring to. I thought Randy Moss was the best receiver I had EVER seen in the NFL, his very first year with Minnesota. I'm not really a Moss fan (in spite of his Patriots connection), but I know what my eyes saw. The truth is that I have NEVER seen ANY receiver make more one-handed, acrobatic catches than Moss has made, throughout his career. I simply don't like the guy, because he has "dogged it" A LOT (something Rice NEVER did), throughout his career. Having said that, by the time Moss retires, his numbers are going to be VERY close to Rice, and he may even pass Rice in some categories. That's quite remarkable, when you consider that this guy took seasons off (his entire Oakland career). He's always been known as a guy who plays when he wants to play, and I'll NEVER respect a guy like that. I simply can't deny that he was unmatched by any receiver I've ever seen, when he felt like playing!


John from Boston

Damn right! The 98 season was magical..If it wasn't for freaking Dennis Green,looking past the dirty birds and taking a knee at half time with like 47 secs left on the clock with the most prolific offense in NFL history,we would have went to the big dance..I know we would have beat the Bronco's! The show Moss put on ,week after week was insane..The 1st time he played at Lamblow field he destroyed it..Moss,if he would put his bullshit crybaby mentality away,WOULD be the best receiver hands down!

Red13JoePa wrote:

SF-Dano wrote:I is widely known that Rice's timed speeds were never astonishing. However, come game day, the boy could add that extra burst of breakaway speed from the defenders. He did it all time.

My point EXACT1Y that I was trying to impart on Enigma, Dano but there's never been any te11ing John ANYthing about sports here un1ess you agree with him.

I said fast PAD SPEED, FOOTBA11 speed. We know he a1ways ran good-pedestrian 40s.
That's not to say he was s1ow, either, but mere1y above average speedwise.

Come Sunday, though, 1ook OUT.
Not to mention he had the best QB ever getting the ba11 to him.

Nobody better even ARGUE that point. There's Montana and then everybody e1se.

Ha, far for a woman to talk sports with the guys, but I need to pipe up because I'm also a native and lifelong 49ers fan - still remember the John Brodie-Gene Washington days. Those '80s championship seasons were out of this world! No clue what JR"s timed speed was, but he sure ran plenty fast in game situations, saw him run past defenders to catch passes from Montana (later S Young) and into the end zone many times!

Red13JoePa wrote:Not to mention he had the best QB ever getting the ba11 to him.

Nobody better even ARGUE that point. There's Montana and then everybody e1se.

No argument from me there, Joepa! I have ALWAYS ranked Montana as the best QB my eyes have ever seen, and the only way I will ever feel any differently is if I see a QB win 5 Super Bowls, which I honestly don't think will ever happen. I stand by my point on Jerry Rice. We have ZERO argument that he's the greatest receiver the NFL has ever seen. He just wasn't very fast getting down the field. I also vehemently disagree that Jerry Rice "ran by" defenders. That simply didn't happen. I was a huge 49'ers fan back in the day and watched all of their games. Rice ran routes better than ANY receiver in the history of the NFL, so when he came out of his breaks, his defender was left running in the other direction, and Rice was left all by himself, more times than not! The average football fan assumes if a guy is wide open, that he "ran by" his defenders. The reality is Jerry Rice very rarely ran by anyone. He just knew how to run routes better than anyone else in the history of the game, which allowed him to be open, a whole lot! Again, it's not a knock on Jerry Rice. You can't get any better than the best in history. I just think it's beyond ridiculous for ANYONE to suggest the guy was "fast", when he was slow as shit! As I said, he's easily the slowest guy I've EVER seen play WR in the NFL. I'll certainly acquiesce to you on the point that his 40 time probably was a bit better on Sunday, but 4.5 still isn't anything to write home about


John from Boston

I liked the list, but I would have found a way to get Art Monk in there...loved that dude.

Saint John wrote:I liked the list, but I would have found a way to get Art Monk in there...loved that dude.

All I can say about Art Monk is it's about damn time he was voted into the Hall Of Fame! It is beyond ridiculous that it took the guy this freakin' long to be recognized for the great career that he had!


John from Boston

Enigma869 wrote:

Saint John wrote:I liked the list, but I would have found a way to get Art Monk in there...loved that dude.

All I can say about Art Monk is it's about damn time he was voted into the Hall Of Fame! It is beyond ridiculous that it took the guy this freakin' long to be recognized for the great career that he had!


John from Boston

Agreed.
He absolutely belonged in Canton and is FINALLY there.

Long live "The Posse!"

Incredible Art Monk vid here:

http://www.monk4thehall.com/

Click on the link to the archived page to get to it.

Can't argue with the list too much, but if Chris Carter is #8 receiver all time, how did he get snubbed this year for the hall of fame?

I think it's a pretty fair list. Putting Rice up front I think was the right thing to do. Like you said, John, he "Got more out of less". I'm glad to see that Irvin is up at number 4. He was one kick ass WR.

MidNightTrain wrote:Can't argue with the list too much, but if Chris Carter is #8 receiver all time, how did he get snubbed this year for the hall of fame?

Chris Carter not getting into the Hall of Fame this past year STUNNED me, beyond belief! I will NEVER understand him not getting in, on the first ballot! I understand it even less than Art Monk having to wait so long to get in (which never should have happened, based on his numbers). Chris Carter was a GREAT WR, and will get into the HOF next season, but I'll never understand the message of now allowing him in during his first year of eligibility. I remember watching "Inside The NFL" on HBO the week after he didn't get in. The guy looked genuinely shocked that he didn't get in. Perhaps he pissed some writers off somewhere, when he had a drug issue. I certainly can't think of any other issues.


John from Boston