MR

In this interview Arnel mentioned they originally would have recorded only four new songs.


http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/storypage.as ... yId=117601

pineda1 wrote:In this interview Arnel mentioned they originally would have recorded only four new songs.


http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/storypage.as ... yId=117601

I think Neal said as much in one of the earlier press releases.

This article also incorrectly lumps Shirley in with ALL of the songs on the album, when in fact, he only produced the new tracks.
Wonder how the Caveman feels to be associated with the newly re-done greatest hits.
If you recall, as he said in his own words....

"I have been brutally honest with them, and was not interested in being any part of them being a nostalgia/tribute band"

The_Noble_Cause wrote:This article also incorrectly lumps Shirley in with ALL of the songs on the album, when in fact, he only produced the new tracks.
Wonder how the Caveman feels to be associated with the newly re-done greatest hits.

I didn't realize he didn't do all of them. I remember one of his earliet "Caveman's Diary" entries where he mentioned working on a project that was like going back in time to the 80's or something like that. I took it to mean the re-recorded greatest hits. Who produced these, then?

Rip Rokken wrote:I didn't realize he didn't do all of them. I remember one of his earliet "Caveman's Diary" entries where he mentioned working on a project that was like going back in time to the 80's or something like that. I took it to mean the re-recorded greatest hits. Who produced these, then?

I am under the impression that the re-done hits were produced by Cain in his basement.
Same place as Red 13.

Of course, I could always be wrong.

I'm pretty sure that Shirley did both the new album and the re-records.

Saint John wrote:I'm pretty sure that Shirley did both the new album and the re-records.

That is my understanding also.

I could've sworn I read that somewhere - most likely it was on this very forum.
Ahh well...far be it from me to overrule The Wombat.

Sorry about that.

Considering he's had previous dealings with Perry, I am somewhat surprised Shirley would even consider touching the classic recordings.
Kalodner would have probably nixed the idea.

The_Noble_Cause wrote:I could've sworn I read that somewhere - most likely it was on this very forum.
Ahh well...far be it from me to overrule The Wombat.

Sorry about that.

Considering he's had previous dealings with Perry, I am somewhat surprised Shirley would even consider touching the classic recordings.
Kalodner would have probably nixed the idea.

I think you are right, TNC, in that Shirley wouldn't exclusively produce the re-records, but signed on when he learned it would also include an original CD, Wal Mart mandated the re-records idea and threw some pretty good $$$ at him.

I'm extremely unimpressed by the re-record samples I've heard. No passion in the performances, just cold by the numbers regurgitation. Dean's drumming flat out sucks in comparison to Smitty's and Arnel doesn't touch Perry's delivery (painfully apparent on who's crying now). If they were going to re-record them, they should have changed them up, altered the arrangements and made something new out of it.

I do, however, like a number of the new tracks and eagerly look forward to them. Shaping up to be the best effort from Neal and Jon since Perry left and Arnel sounds great on them. I'd prefer this release without the GH's revisited, but I believe the band couldn't have scored the walmart deal without it so... oh well.

If KS did say he didn't want to be a part of a Journey nostalgia act and didn't want to re-record the classics, he should have stuck with that mindset. I'm all for them making new music till they are 95, if that's what they want, but to try to dilute their own legacy with re-records is plain stupid. When something is already perfect, why screw with it? I think Schon and Cain just did it since they knew they could now and it would piss Perry off. Why not a double CD of all new stuff? That's what everybody that stuck with them for the last 10 years have been screaming for, anyway. It looks like if DSB isn't on a CD SOMEplace these days, then there won't be any attempt to promote the name Journey. They'll never free themselves of the Perry legacy, so they continue to milk it.

EightyRock wrote:They'll never free themselves of the Perry legacy, so they continue to milk it.

There is no "Perry legacy." Only a JOURNEY legacy that Perry was a part of. The "Steve Perry legacy" is Street Talk and FTLOSM. Hardly anything "legacy" worthy.

Saint John wrote:

EightyRock wrote:They'll never free themselves of the Perry legacy, so they continue to milk it.

There is no "Perry legacy." Only a JOURNEY legacy that Perry was a part of. The "Steve Perry legacy" is Street Talk and FTLOSM. Hardly anything "legacy" worthy.

Nah, you're going overboard. Perry had a huge influence on that band's music and what they produced. Even Neal said they let him creatively steer the ship. The Journey we all love only sounds the way they do because of Perry's influence. He wasn't just the singer and you know it. The progressive rock band that was there before Perry wasn't going in the direction we now know them to be. Everything they've created since Perry left has been an effort to reproduce what they were with him, right down to his stylistic vocal inflections. That's the Perry legacy.

STORY_TELLER wrote:Even Neal said they let him creatively steer the ship.

Right into the fucking iceburg of a dozen years of inactivity.

NealIsGod wrote:

STORY_TELLER wrote:Even Neal said they let him creatively steer the ship.

Right into the fucking iceburg of a dozen years of inactivity.

That's irrelevant to the topic being discussed, and, Neal's just as responsible. He could have tweaked Perry out of retirement by making his Chalfant/Rollie/Cain moving on move sooner, right? Let's also not forget that during that time, melodic rock dropped off the radar and grunge was the call of the day. I'm sure that influenced the inactivity to a degree.

STORY_TELLER wrote:

NealIsGod wrote:

STORY_TELLER wrote:Even Neal said they let him creatively steer the ship.

Right into the fucking iceburg of a dozen years of inactivity.

That's irrelevant to the topic being discussed, and, Neal's just as responsible. He could have tweaked Perry out of retirement by making his Chalfant/Rollie/Cain moving on move sooner, right?

The topic is an Arnel interview. How is your post before mine relevant to the topic? Blame SJ for hijacking this one.

Cain produced the Greatest Hits tracks. Don't know if that's the "official" line or not, but it's the factual one. There was very little time to finish up the GH once they spent so much time on the new tracks.

NealIsGod wrote:

STORY_TELLER wrote:

NealIsGod wrote:

STORY_TELLER wrote:Even Neal said they let him creatively steer the ship.

Right into the fucking iceburg of a dozen years of inactivity.

That's irrelevant to the topic being discussed, and, Neal's just as responsible. He could have tweaked Perry out of retirement by making his Chalfant/Rollie/Cain moving on move sooner, right?

The topic is an Arnel interview. How is your post before mine relevant to the topic? Blame SJ for hijacking this one.

My response was to SJ and his statement was the topic being discussed. You added the inactivity element which has nothing to do with any musical legacy. So

...ahem...

But yes, I blame SJ for a lot of derailments. When it comes to Perry, he sounds like a jilted jaded ex-lover.

Jeremey wrote:Cain produced the Greatest Hits tracks. Don't know if that's the "official" line or not, but it's the factual one. There was very little time to finish up the GH once they spent so much time on the new tracks.

And it shows... (well, from the clips I heard anyway... )

Above all else, this release reveals to me that Neal and Jon need to be produced. (although I dig Neal solo on his instrumental albums bigtime)

STORY_TELLER wrote:

NealIsGod wrote:

STORY_TELLER wrote:Even Neal said they let him creatively steer the ship.

Right into the fucking iceburg of a dozen years of inactivity.

That's irrelevant to the topic being discussed, and, Neal's just as responsible. He could have tweaked Perry out of retirement by making his Chalfant/Rollie/Cain moving on move sooner, right? Let's also not forget that during that time, melodic rock dropped off the radar and grunge was the popular style. I'm sure that influenced the inactivity to a degree.

The only thing Neal is guilty of is showing faith in a guy that had no intention of ever touring again and whose primary goal was to sink the ship he once captained because he was unable to move on physically and/or emotionally. And Perry was no more important than the guy that picked him (Herbert) or the guy that was able to mimic and compliment his voice so artistically (Schon). He recorded 2 albums, Against The Wall and FTLOSM, completely out of Journey (for all intents and purposes), and they were colossal flops. One so bad that the label refused to even release it and the other so unispiring that it was supported with a high school gym tour. Street Talk was recorded while he was an active member of Journey. So basically, outside of Journey, he was artistically bankrupt with very little to offer.

The_Noble_Cause wrote:

pineda1 wrote:In this interview Arnel mentioned they originally would have recorded only four new songs.


http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/storypage.as ... yId=117601

I think Neal said as much in one of the earlier press releases.

This article also incorrectly lumps Shirley in with ALL of the songs on the album, when in fact, he only produced the new tracks.
Wonder how the Caveman feels to be associated with the newly re-done greatest hits.
If you recall, as he said in his own words....

"I have been brutally honest with them, and was not interested in being any part of them being a nostalgia/tribute band"

The Cave Man is probably just like many of us in the way that he also really doesn't want to put time into something that he wouldn't be interested in as a consumer. And with that said, I'm sure the Cave Man knows that the real business is doing brand new material, not rehashing over the old stuff. Because when you get down to it, the old stuff with SP is unbeatable in all reality. AP is as close as they've come thus far, but even the "C" Man knows, it's still not good enough and it never will be, not by AP or anyone else for that matter. The chapter with SP and Journey has to come to an end. It's now time for the new chapter. And it's understood that perhaps this is why Journey has had a few singer changes since SP, because continuing to do the material that SP did, continues on with the old chapter.

Jeremey wrote:Cain produced the Greatest Hits tracks. Don't know if that's the "official" line or not, but it's the factual one. There was very little time to finish up the GH once they spent so much time on the new tracks.

Thanks Jeremey. Interesting clarification. The band could play those tracks in their sleep though really. The pack cover picture/art/layout on the Revelation package only gives Shirley credit as producer.

Saint John wrote:The only thing Neal is guilty of is showing faith in a guy that had no intention of ever touring again and whose primary goal was to sink the ship he once captained because he was unable to move on physically and/or emotionally. And Perry was no more important than the guy that picked him (Herbert) or the guy that was able to mimic and compliment his voice so artistically (Schon). He recorded 2 albums, Against The Wall and FTLOSM, completely out of Journey (for all intents and purposes), and they were colossal flops. One so bad that the label refused to even release it and the other so unispiring that it was supported with a high school gym tour. Street Talk was recorded while he was an active member of Journey. So basically, outside of Journey, he was artistically bankrupt with very little to offer.

SJ, SJ, SJ... my jilted jaded friend (smiles).

To rebuff, Jon's quoted on the behind the music special as saying they hadn't even spoken to perry in forever when he got the call that reunited them for TBF. You'll note that Perry didn't call Neal, he called Jon. If that was the case, then faith in Perry returning had nothing to do with it. No way Neal had faith in someone he hadn't spoken to in years. It wasn't faith that kept Neal from moving on, it was the (somewhat) valid belief that he didn't feel a Perryless Journey could succeed. To date, he's been correct apart from the nostalgia touring. He only attempted the chalfant angle when he reached the end of his financial rope. With grunge being the call of the times, I'm sure he wasn't looking to form a new band, but tour his old one.

Moving on: Perry WAS more important than the guy that picked him (herbert) because that guy (herbert) also picked Robert Fleishman and the label was on the verge of dropping the band until Perry was brought in and changed their musical direction. If Fleishman wasn't such a prima donna dick, he would have still been in the band. When Herbert first found Perry, he wanted to sign Alien Project (Perry's band) separately. He wasn't intending Perry to be lead in Journey until he found out Perry's band broke up. Finding musical chemistry is not an every day event. Neal and Perry had oodles of it and that is what made Journey a success (no matter how Herbie tries to spin it in his jaded favor).

Against the wall wasn't released as a contrived effort to push Perry back with Journey. It was recorded right around the same time as Street Talk so there goes your theory of Perry being with the band success story. FTLOSM was not a colossal flop. It just didn't do Journey numbers and it came out on the heels of the grunge era. You Better Wait was a modest hit, played on pop stations (not just classic rock) in decent rotation (at least in NY).

If album sales are your standard of measurement, then this musical bankrupt claim can be flipped back on Journey because they haven't done any better than him without him and that's across 3 releases (arrival, red13 and generations).

You're pissed about Perry's choices as a person, that's fine. But that's a separate issue from what he contributed to this band. This band would not sound the way we love them for without his contributions, not just as a singer, but as a song writer and melody creator. He had a HUGE influence on them and they repeat that influence to this day without him. Be fair and give the man his due. He earned it.

I swear dude, when it comes to Perry, you sound like Alanis Morrisette singing "you outta know".

STORY_TELLER wrote:I swear dude, when it comes to Perry, you sound like Alanis Morrisette singing "you outta know".

The only thing more pathetic than that are the people that let his amazing time in Journey (77-83) veto almost 15 years of aimless vision, deceit, control, ego, and the capsizing of a once great band. When he left in 98 I'd bet he was certain that he exacted enough chaos and legal wrangling that the band would never recover. What he didn't realize was, unlike himself, that Neal and Jon aren't quitters.

Saint John wrote:

STORY_TELLER wrote:I swear dude, when it comes to Perry, you sound like Alanis Morrisette singing "you outta know".

The only thing more pathetic than that are the people that let his amazing time in Journey (77-83) veto almost 15 years of aimless vision, deceit, control, ego, and the capsizing of a once great band. When he left in 98 I'd bet he was certain that he exacted enough chaos and legal wrangling that the band would never recover. What he didn't realize was, unlike himself, that Neal and Jon aren't quitters.

By jove! I think I hit a nerve!
Thank you for illustrating my point. What you just said has nothing to do with the musical legacy. You're just pissed at the guy because your favorite band disappeared. Fine. But the musical legacy was what was being discussed when you chimed in and that is what is at issue. Keep (your) other separate issue out of it, because when it comes to the music, your other issues are clouding your statements and it's obvious. Seek help and enjoy the new release.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=705LEH3j2g0

STORY_TELLER wrote:

Saint John wrote:

STORY_TELLER wrote:I swear dude, when it comes to Perry, you sound like Alanis Morrisette singing "you outta know".

The only thing more pathetic than that are the people that let his amazing time in Journey (77-83) veto almost 15 years of aimless vision, deceit, control, ego, and the capsizing of a once great band. When he left in 98 I'd bet he was certain that he exacted enough chaos and legal wrangling that the band would never recover. What he didn't realize was, unlike himself, that Neal and Jon aren't quitters.

By jove! I think I hit a nerve!
Thank you for illustrating my point. What you just said has nothing to do with the musical legacy. You're just pissed at the guy because your favorite band disappeared. Fine. But the musical legacy was what was being discussed when you chimed in and that is what is at issue. Keep (your) other separate issue out of it, because when it comes to the music, your other issues are clouding your statements and it's obvious. Seek help and enjoy the new release.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=705LEH3j2g0

It's all good, ST. No nerves hit at all. You think you're right and I know I am, that's all.

He mothballed them in '87.

By refusing to officially quit, he got away with robbing Journey of a few albums and tours.

It WAS faith in him, that he needed his monk-like time off.

Much like now, using the Garboesque mystique of his hibernationg vocal prowess that threatens every now and then to sing to maniupulate the comeback hopes, he used the notion of "he didn't say he's done with Journey, he'll come back to us someday now" to keep Journey shelved for the better part of that decade.

Schon/Cain see FTLOSM drop a year and a half after turns his considerable bugle up at a request to lay down vox for With A Tear and Into Your Arms and finally see the light and go "fuck this. We're Journey again and we're not even gonna ASK him to sing."

That's when the magical, BTM verified "sudden urge to be in Journey again" gripped p.

Red13JoePa wrote:That's when the magical, BTM verified "sudden urge to be in Journey again" gripped p.

Ahhh...good old SP and timing. Kinda like that Herbie interview and those "demos."

Red13JoePa wrote:He mothballed them in '87.

By refusing to officially quit, he got away with robbing Journey of a few albums and tours.

It WAS faith in him, that he needed his monk-like time off.

Much like now, using the Garboeesque mystique of his hibernationg vocal prowess that threatens every now and then to sing to maniupulate the comeback hopes, he used the notion of "he didn't say he's done with Journey, he'll come back to us someday now" to keep Journey shelved for the better part of that decade.

Schon/Cain see FTLOSM drop a year and a half after turns his considerable bugle up at a request to lay down vox for With A Tear and Into Your Arms and finally see the light and go "fuck this. We're Journey again and we're not even gonna ASK him to sing."

That's when the magical, BTM verified "sudden urge to be in Journey again" gripped p.

Oh please. You think they didn't know Perry was in the studio recording before FTLOSM dropped? Like it was some shock? Insiders communicate. They knew long before the album dropped just as Perry knew about them moving on with Chalfant from behind the scenes.

You call it faith, Neal and Jon call it a belief they couldn't do it without him and that's what held them back. They didn't want to crack the stone anymore than Perry wanted it broken, but in the end they realized it was move on and take a shot or drop it entirely. They're still taking that shot to this day, surviving on income derived from nostalgia tours highlighting the Perry years, not new record sales. Both Neal and Jon credit Perry for Journey's success. Neal said so out of his own mouth on the BTM special. But no, you know better what's in Neal's head even when Neal says it.

Mention the name Journey to the average casual fan and they say "Steve Perry". Mention Kansas to the same guy and you'll get a blank stare. Only the 25 die hards on this board debate this semantical nitty gritty issue laden nonsense.

This is and should always be about the music and the valid contributions by the extremely and uniquely talented band members who made up this group. To detract from their contributions for any other reason is just issue laden political football kicking. Give the artists their due for their work. Perry especially. He was a major reason we discuss this band and its music long after their heyday and he blew his freaking voice out doing so. I think he deserves respect for that.

STORY_TELLER wrote:Perry especially. He was a major reason we discuss this band and its music long after their heyday and he blew his freaking voice out doing so. I think he deserves respect for that.

I couldn't agree more, and he more or less had that respect up until about 1987. From then on he was as bad a band member as there's ever been in rock history.

Absolute BULLSHIT, Story Teller.

Living up to your name.

Only in the world of paranoia, where the AIR doesn't move otherwise know as Loondom do people have the knee-jerk reaction of "steve perry" when they hear the word "Journey."

there's perry-on-the brain in that land, some of them sit around and goodle his friggin name bi-hourly.