MR

No, it's not big oil companies or greedy service stations, as many would have you believe. This is a great breakdown on how it all works:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080524/ap_ ... n_the_tank

Thanks Rip! I've been looking for an accurate overview of the process for quite some time. This is the best I've seen so far.

Hey, let's tax those evil oil companies so they have less to invest in finding new oil for production. Less supply really out to help out everyone!

JrnyScarab wrote:Thanks Rip! I've been looking for an accurate overview of the process for quite some time. This is the best I've seen so far.

Hey, let's tax those evil oil companies so they have less to invest in finding new oil for production. Less supply really out to help out everyone!

Any of these politicians who suggest that is only creating class envy by exploiting public ignorance, and using the issue for personal political gain, but what more can we expect from a politician, right? I'd heard that gross numbers aside (which are most often quoted to give people the "shock" factor), oil company profits were around 10%. 10%?!? That's not bad... I personally profit much more than 10% of anything that I sell, and have to in order to survive. Idiots...

Rip Rokken wrote:Any of these politicians who suggest that is only creating class envy by exploiting public ignorance, and using the issue for personal political gain, but what more can we expect from a politician, right? I'd heard that gross numbers aside (which are most often quoted to give people the "shock" factor), oil company profits were around 10%. 10%?!? That's not bad... I personally profit much more than 10% of anything that I sell, and have to in order to survive. Idiots...

I've read and heard recently that oil companies tend to make right around a 9% profit margin, lower than what most other industries make. Regardless, the biggest blame for high gasoline prices goes to the government. Grandstanders like Dick Durbin are much more to blame than the oil company execs that he was excoriating the other day in those waste-of-time hearings they held. Politicians like Durbin complain about the oil company execs while they vote against allowing oil exploration along the Atlantic and Gulf coast and Anwar.

Very enlightening. Thanks, Rip.

NealIsGod wrote:Very enlightening. Thanks, Rip.

You just gave me the idea for a new avatar... Sort of a Doni Lama... haha! I think I'll start working on that!

Don't kid yourselves. This all falls on Congress and their voter base enviormentalists and has since 1973 !!!!!!!!! This is a problem from the Dem camp. Gore still makes a fortune running around yelling the sky is falling when half or scientists disagree !!!!!!!!!!!!

squirt1 wrote:Don't kid yourselves. This all falls on Congress and their voter base enviormentalists and has since 1973 !!!!!!!!! This is a problem from the Dem camp. Gore still makes a fortune running around yelling the sky is falling when half or scientists disagree !!!!!!!!!!!!

The government could AND SHOULD regulate the price of oil...until they do, enjoy the $10 a gallon gas that's coming down the pike........

The government could AND SHOULD regulate the price of oil...until they do, enjoy the $10 a gallon gas that's coming down the pike........[/quote]

In the UK we already have that. Doing a rough conversion I think we are paying about $10.14 per gallon.

X factor wrote:

squirt1 wrote:Don't kid yourselves. This all falls on Congress and their voter base enviormentalists and has since 1973 !!!!!!!!! This is a problem from the Dem camp. Gore still makes a fortune running around yelling the sky is falling when half or scientists disagree !!!!!!!!!!!!

The government could AND SHOULD regulate the price of oil...until they do, enjoy the $10 a gallon gas that's coming down the pike........

They tried that in the 70's...remember the gas lines? SURE the gas was cheap...but there wasn't any of it...

Also Oil is a global commodity...there would be no incentive for anyone to sell oil to us if the government forced them to sell it for less then what the world market is paying.

No oil = no gas.

Duncan wrote:In the UK we already have that. Doing a rough conversion I think we are paying about $10.14 per gallon.

There's a lot more tax on your fuel though. Nearly $5.00 US as of last November.

X factor wrote:The government could AND SHOULD regulate the price of oil...until they do, enjoy the $10 a gallon gas that's coming down the pike........

Just curious how you would expect the US government to regulate the price of crude oil, that is traded globally? The US also purchases a lot of gasoline from Europe etc. Europe saved our butt during Hurrican Katrina. There wouldn't have been much gas at all along the entire east coast without Europe.

X factor wrote:

squirt1 wrote:Don't kid yourselves. This all falls on Congress and their voter base enviormentalists and has since 1973 !!!!!!!!! This is a problem from the Dem camp. Gore still makes a fortune running around yelling the sky is falling when half or scientists disagree !!!!!!!!!!!!

The government could AND SHOULD regulate the price of oil...until they do, enjoy the $10 a gallon gas that's coming down the pike........

They can't. The only thing they can do is allow the oil companies to drill of the Atlantic and Gulf coasts and other places like Anwar. They basically just need to get out of the way.

RocknRoll wrote:

X factor wrote:The government could AND SHOULD regulate the price of oil...until they do, enjoy the $10 a gallon gas that's coming down the pike........

Just curious how you would expect the US government to regulate the price of crude oil, that is traded globally? The US also purchases a lot of gasoline from Europe etc. Europe saved our butt during Hurrican Katrina. There wouldn't have been much gas at all along the entire east coast without Europe.

What's not commonly known is how much GASOLINE we import every week. Most think we only import crude oil. We simply do not refine enough gasoline for our needs. Without imports we can kiss our driving ass goodby.

JrnyScarab wrote:

RocknRoll wrote:

X factor wrote:The government could AND SHOULD regulate the price of oil...until they do, enjoy the $10 a gallon gas that's coming down the pike........

Just curious how you would expect the US government to regulate the price of crude oil, that is traded globally? The US also purchases a lot of gasoline from Europe etc. Europe saved our butt during Hurrican Katrina. There wouldn't have been much gas at all along the entire east coast without Europe.

What's not commonly known is how much GASOLINE we import every week. Most think we only import crude oil. We simply do not refine enough gasoline for our needs. Without imports we can kiss our driving ass goodby.

Well if the tree huggers and the NIMBY (Not In My Back Yard) crowd would let us BUILD a few refineries we would be in better shape...30 YEARS...that is how long it has been since we built a new refinery in the US. In addition to the rules on gasoline additives that mean gas in Chicago can't be used in Cleveland and vice-versa.

The government needs to GET OUT of the way. They cause more problems than they solve...they always have...usually with the best of intentions mind you...but you know what road is paved with the best of intentions.

RossValoryRocks wrote:

JrnyScarab wrote:

RocknRoll wrote:

X factor wrote:The government could AND SHOULD regulate the price of oil...until they do, enjoy the $10 a gallon gas that's coming down the pike........

Just curious how you would expect the US government to regulate the price of crude oil, that is traded globally? The US also purchases a lot of gasoline from Europe etc. Europe saved our butt during Hurrican Katrina. There wouldn't have been much gas at all along the entire east coast without Europe.

What's not commonly known is how much GASOLINE we import every week. Most think we only import crude oil. We simply do not refine enough gasoline for our needs. Without imports we can kiss our driving ass goodby.

Well if the tree huggers and the NIMBY (Not In My Back Yard) crowd would let us BUILD a few refineries we would be in better shape...30 YEARS...that is how long it has been since we built a new refinery in the US. In addition to the rules on gasoline additives that mean gas in Chicago can't be used in Cleveland and vice-versa.

The government needs to GET OUT of the way. They cause more problems than they solve...they always have...usually with the best of intentions mind you...but you know what road is paved with the best of intentions.

That is quite amazing that none have been built in 30 years. Also, the ones we have are breaking down more frequently and are running at much lower capacity. In times like these, the Govt needs to kill the silly rules and let all states use the same Gasoline. Maybe we DO need them to get more involved with somehow mandating that new refineries are built. Doesn't George W have some oil company friends that can help?

In Chicago the biggest refinery is spending over 3 billion dollars just to use Canadian oil sands crude and will produce somewhere around an additional 150,000 gallons a day of gas. Enviromental groups fought like crazy to stop the project fearing (not reality) an increase in lake water pollution. Major companies are striving to reduce pollution, it makes good business sense in this day and age.

One other point, you just can't build a refinery anywhere, you need an infrastructure (pipeline or very big ship) to get the crude oil to the refinery and you need pipelines to distribute the gas to outlying terminals to be loaded by truck.

JrnyScarab wrote:

RossValoryRocks wrote:

JrnyScarab wrote:

RocknRoll wrote:

X factor wrote:The government could AND SHOULD regulate the price of oil...until they do, enjoy the $10 a gallon gas that's coming down the pike........

Just curious how you would expect the US government to regulate the price of crude oil, that is traded globally? The US also purchases a lot of gasoline from Europe etc. Europe saved our butt during Hurrican Katrina. There wouldn't have been much gas at all along the entire east coast without Europe.

What's not commonly known is how much GASOLINE we import every week. Most think we only import crude oil. We simply do not refine enough gasoline for our needs. Without imports we can kiss our driving ass goodby.

Well if the tree huggers and the NIMBY (Not In My Back Yard) crowd would let us BUILD a few refineries we would be in better shape...30 YEARS...that is how long it has been since we built a new refinery in the US. In addition to the rules on gasoline additives that mean gas in Chicago can't be used in Cleveland and vice-versa.

The government needs to GET OUT of the way. They cause more problems than they solve...they always have...usually with the best of intentions mind you...but you know what road is paved with the best of intentions.

That is quite amazing that none have been built in 30 years. Also, the ones we have are breaking down more frequently and are running at much lower capacity. In times like these, the Govt needs to kill the silly rules and let all states use the same Gasoline. Maybe we DO need them to get more involved with somehow mandating that new refineries are built. Doesn't George W have some oil company friends that can help?

Agreed about ditching the silly rules...and at this point I'll let them drill in my fucking front yard, and build a refinery in my basement! I just feel like the powers that be cloud of all this so much, to where the average person doesn't know whether they're coming or going. We say the Gov should regulate? Well, we CAN'T because of a,b and c...
Ok, so open more refineries and use more of our domestic product- NOPE can't do that either! Won't help, it'll only bring gas down 10 cents a gallon, blah, blah... Ok- so then let's all stop using so much oil and gasoline! THAT'LL drive the price down for sure, right? WRONG AGAIN- suddenly everyone tells me basic supply and demand doesn't WORK with oil anymore. God dammit, when is this gonna end????
I'll tell you when- when something like the plan the trucker I talked to the other day had goes into effect. He suggested (and said that apparently quite of few of his "fraternity" are considering this) simply make it known to the PTB that if gas isn't lowered to such and such price by date X, we simply don't show up to work anymore!
Now THAT would throw a huge fucking monkey wrench in the works wouldn't it?


And yes, all you political geniuses- I know something like that wouldn't work and is impractical as all hell, but I'm pissed off!!!!

X factor wrote:

JrnyScarab wrote:

RossValoryRocks wrote:

JrnyScarab wrote:

RocknRoll wrote:

X factor wrote:The government could AND SHOULD regulate the price of oil...until they do, enjoy the $10 a gallon gas that's coming down the pike........

Just curious how you would expect the US government to regulate the price of crude oil, that is traded globally? The US also purchases a lot of gasoline from Europe etc. Europe saved our butt during Hurrican Katrina. There wouldn't have been much gas at all along the entire east coast without Europe.

What's not commonly known is how much GASOLINE we import every week. Most think we only import crude oil. We simply do not refine enough gasoline for our needs. Without imports we can kiss our driving ass goodby.

Well if the tree huggers and the NIMBY (Not In My Back Yard) crowd would let us BUILD a few refineries we would be in better shape...30 YEARS...that is how long it has been since we built a new refinery in the US. In addition to the rules on gasoline additives that mean gas in Chicago can't be used in Cleveland and vice-versa.

The government needs to GET OUT of the way. They cause more problems than they solve...they always have...usually with the best of intentions mind you...but you know what road is paved with the best of intentions.

That is quite amazing that none have been built in 30 years. Also, the ones we have are breaking down more frequently and are running at much lower capacity. In times like these, the Govt needs to kill the silly rules and let all states use the same Gasoline. Maybe we DO need them to get more involved with somehow mandating that new refineries are built. Doesn't George W have some oil company friends that can help?

Agreed about ditching the silly rules...and at this point I'll let them drill in my fucking front yard, and build a refinery in my basement! I just feel like the powers that be cloud of all this so much, to where the average person doesn't know whether they're coming or going. We say the Gov should regulate? Well, we CAN'T because of a,b and c...
Ok, so open more refineries and use more of our domestic product- NOPE can't do that either! Won't help, it'll only bring gas down 10 cents a gallon, blah, blah... Ok- so then let's all stop using so much oil and gasoline! THAT'LL drive the price down for sure, right? WRONG AGAIN- suddenly everyone tells me basic supply and demand doesn't WORK with oil anymore. God dammit, when is this gonna end????
I'll tell you when- when something like the plan the trucker I talked to the other day had goes into effect. He suggested (and said that apparently quite of few of his "fraternity" are considering this) simply make it known to the PTB that if gas isn't lowered to such and such price by date X, we simply don't show up to work anymore!
Now THAT would throw a huge fucking monkey wrench in the works wouldn't it?


And yes, all you political geniuses- I know something like that wouldn't work and is impractical as all hell, but I'm pissed off!!!!

It feels like the powers to be don't know what they're doing because they DON'T. There is no one taking the bull by the horns here. If oil production has peaked and will decline, then the only thing to do is try to find a way to use less or find other means of energy. But the effort hasn't started soon enough and I'm afraid we are screwed. This country needs to fund a Manhattan Project for energy, but the reality is we are too broke to do it. Rebuild the rail system. More public transport, etc. No one in Washington has a clue what to do. They only care about the next election.

JrnyScarab wrote:

X factor wrote:

JrnyScarab wrote:

RossValoryRocks wrote:

JrnyScarab wrote:

RocknRoll wrote:

X factor wrote:The government could AND SHOULD regulate the price of oil...until they do, enjoy the $10 a gallon gas that's coming down the pike........

Just curious how you would expect the US government to regulate the price of crude oil, that is traded globally? The US also purchases a lot of gasoline from Europe etc. Europe saved our butt during Hurrican Katrina. There wouldn't have been much gas at all along the entire east coast without Europe.

What's not commonly known is how much GASOLINE we import every week. Most think we only import crude oil. We simply do not refine enough gasoline for our needs. Without imports we can kiss our driving ass goodby.

Well if the tree huggers and the NIMBY (Not In My Back Yard) crowd would let us BUILD a few refineries we would be in better shape...30 YEARS...that is how long it has been since we built a new refinery in the US. In addition to the rules on gasoline additives that mean gas in Chicago can't be used in Cleveland and vice-versa.

The government needs to GET OUT of the way. They cause more problems than they solve...they always have...usually with the best of intentions mind you...but you know what road is paved with the best of intentions.

That is quite amazing that none have been built in 30 years. Also, the ones we have are breaking down more frequently and are running at much lower capacity. In times like these, the Govt needs to kill the silly rules and let all states use the same Gasoline. Maybe we DO need them to get more involved with somehow mandating that new refineries are built. Doesn't George W have some oil company friends that can help?

Agreed about ditching the silly rules...and at this point I'll let them drill in my fucking front yard, and build a refinery in my basement! I just feel like the powers that be cloud of all this so much, to where the average person doesn't know whether they're coming or going. We say the Gov should regulate? Well, we CAN'T because of a,b and c...
Ok, so open more refineries and use more of our domestic product- NOPE can't do that either! Won't help, it'll only bring gas down 10 cents a gallon, blah, blah... Ok- so then let's all stop using so much oil and gasoline! THAT'LL drive the price down for sure, right? WRONG AGAIN- suddenly everyone tells me basic supply and demand doesn't WORK with oil anymore. God dammit, when is this gonna end????
I'll tell you when- when something like the plan the trucker I talked to the other day had goes into effect. He suggested (and said that apparently quite of few of his "fraternity" are considering this) simply make it known to the PTB that if gas isn't lowered to such and such price by date X, we simply don't show up to work anymore!
Now THAT would throw a huge fucking monkey wrench in the works wouldn't it?


And yes, all you political geniuses- I know something like that wouldn't work and is impractical as all hell, but I'm pissed off!!!!

It feels like the powers to be don't know what they're doing because they DON'T. There is no one taking the bull by the horns here. If oil production has peaked and will decline, then the only thing to do is try to find a way to use less or find other means of energy. But the effort hasn't started soon enough and I'm afraid we are screwed. This country needs to fund a Manhattan Project for energy, but the reality is we are too broke to do it. Rebuild the rail system. More public transport, etc. No one in Washington has a clue what to do. They only care about the next election.

That's a cold, hard, very sad truth. What has happened to this country? It doesn't even resemble what it once was.

Rick wrote:It feels like the powers to be don't know what they're doing because they DON'T. There is no one taking the bull by the horns here. If oil production has peaked and will decline, then the only thing to do is try to find a way to use less or find other means of energy. But the effort hasn't started soon enough and I'm afraid we are screwed. This country needs to fund a Manhattan Project for energy, but the reality is we are too broke to do it. Rebuild the rail system. More public transport, etc. No one in Washington has a clue what to do. They only care about the next election.

That's a cold, hard, very sad truth. What has happened to this country? It doesn't even resemble what it once was.[/quote]

Mass transit is a very big problem here in the Indianapolis. It's one of the few big cities with no real decent solution for mass transit.

conversationpc wrote:Mass transit is a very big problem here in the Indianapolis. It's one of the few big cities with no real decent solution for mass transit.

We have some here, there are buses and a train that runs between Dallas and Fort Worth. I'll bet both are probably packed these days.

Rick wrote:

conversationpc wrote:Mass transit is a very big problem here in the Indianapolis. It's one of the few big cities with no real decent solution for mass transit.

We have some here, there are buses and a train that runs between Dallas and Fort Worth. I'll bet both are probably packed these days.

There are only buses here but most people never use them.

Rick wrote:

conversationpc wrote:Mass transit is a very big problem here in the Indianapolis. It's one of the few big cities with no real decent solution for mass transit.

We have some here, there are buses and a train that runs between Dallas and Fort Worth. I'll bet both are probably packed these days.

I wish I could use some mass transit, but I travel way out of the city about an hour away. These gas prices are killing me. Both cars get about 25-27 mpg highway which isn't too bad. Between my wife's car and mine, we are spending about $570.00 a month for gas. That's at $3.80 gallon, soon to be higher. Shit, that's almost 2 car payments just for gas!

JrnyScarab wrote:

Rick wrote:

conversationpc wrote:Mass transit is a very big problem here in the Indianapolis. It's one of the few big cities with no real decent solution for mass transit.

We have some here, there are buses and a train that runs between Dallas and Fort Worth. I'll bet both are probably packed these days.

I wish I could use some mass transit, but I travel way out of the city about an hour away. These gas prices are killing me. Both cars get about 25-27 mpg highway which isn't too bad. Between my wife's car and mine, we are spending about $570.00 a month for gas. That's at $3.80 gallon, soon to be higher. Shit, that's almost 2 car payments just for gas!

Maybe cars will become like cheap inkjet printers, where they give you the car for practically nothing, but the cost of consumables kills ya! Haha... If the car manufacturers also were the ones who sold the gasoline, I wouldn't put something like this past them.

But you are right about gas right now... it's spiking up at an INSANE pace, and I don't know how our economy will sustain it...

Rip Rokken wrote:

JrnyScarab wrote:

Rick wrote:

conversationpc wrote:Mass transit is a very big problem here in the Indianapolis. It's one of the few big cities with no real decent solution for mass transit.

We have some here, there are buses and a train that runs between Dallas and Fort Worth. I'll bet both are probably packed these days.

I wish I could use some mass transit, but I travel way out of the city about an hour away. These gas prices are killing me. Both cars get about 25-27 mpg highway which isn't too bad. Between my wife's car and mine, we are spending about $570.00 a month for gas. That's at $3.80 gallon, soon to be higher. Shit, that's almost 2 car payments just for gas!

Maybe cars will become like cheap inkjet printers, where they give you the car for practically nothing, but the cost of consumables kills ya! Haha... If the car manufacturers also were the ones who sold the gasoline, I wouldn't put something like this past them.

But you are right about gas right now... it's spiking up at an INSANE pace, and I don't know how our economy will sustain it...

Now THAT's funny!

But seriously, up here in the Northeast, an even bigger fear is heating oil prices for next winter. I use Kerosene which is already at $4.75 gallon. Kerosene is closely related to Diesel. The world demand for Diesel is growing like mad and we are actually EXPORTING diesel to Europe. We will end up with shortages of the very fuel that keeps our trucks running delivering all sorts of goodies like food and Walmart shit.

So, by winter, Kerosene ought to be about $6.00 gallon or more. Thank God it's very efficient and I only use about 400 gallons a year, but that's $2400.00 at $6.00 gallon maybe on top of gas prices and food price inflation etc. In the meantime, I get no raise and my wife get's about 3.5%, which is way below the fake inflation numbers Uncle Sam uses.

JrnyScarab wrote:So, by winter, Kerosene ought to be about $6.00 gallon or more. Thank God it's very efficient and I only use about 400 gallons a year, but that's $2400.00 at $6.00 gallon maybe on top of gas prices and food price inflation etc. In the meantime, I get no raise and my wife get's about 3.5%, which is way below the fake inflation numbers Uncle Sam uses.

Well, there is something at least the government could do, now more than ever -- CUT OUR FREAKING TAXES... and quit wasting our money! At least we could overhaul Capitol Hill and get things working up there... wouldn't that be nice?

Rip Rokken wrote:

JrnyScarab wrote:So, by winter, Kerosene ought to be about $6.00 gallon or more. Thank God it's very efficient and I only use about 400 gallons a year, but that's $2400.00 at $6.00 gallon maybe on top of gas prices and food price inflation etc. In the meantime, I get no raise and my wife get's about 3.5%, which is way below the fake inflation numbers Uncle Sam uses.

Well, there is something at least the government could do, now more than ever -- CUT OUR FREAKING TAXES... and quit wasting our money! At least we could overhaul Capitol Hill and get things working up there... wouldn't that be nice?

Hey, good ol George just gave us some back. Let's see, some went to the banks for credit card debt and some went to the Arabs to purchase more oil & gas. Keep it coming George. We can use all you can give us!

JrnyScarab wrote:Hey, good ol George just gave us some back. Let's see, some went to the banks for credit card debt and some went to the Arabs to purchase more oil & gas. Keep it coming George. We can use all you can give us!

I'll tell ya what -- the last thing I'll ever do is complain when the government gives me back some of my own money, but the notion that such a paltry amount will kick-start the economy is foolish. Nothing more than a gimmick

Rip Rokken wrote:

JrnyScarab wrote:Hey, good ol George just gave us some back. Let's see, some went to the banks for credit card debt and some went to the Arabs to purchase more oil & gas. Keep it coming George. We can use all you can give us!

I'll tell ya what -- the last thing I'll ever do is complain when the government gives me back some of my own money, but the notion that such a paltry amount will kick-start the economy is foolish. Nothing more than a gimmick

I'm not complaining. Actually, I spent 1/3rd, saved 1/3rd, and paid 1/3rd to credit card debt. Gotta keep spending some or the economy comes crashing down. The consumer rules! And yes, it's just a gimmick to make us feel good. Now if they sent me like $10,000. that might just do the trick! Or maybe they could give us all a Toyota Prius or something.