Neal's Guitar tone

[RSParker]

Is is just me, or has his sound kinda lost a bit of life.

I mean the dude shreds... but the covers cd has better guitar tone than the other cd. Im all for compression and delay on a guitar, but i think its starting to take away from his tone. Hes not as melodic most times as in the past. The use of the sustainer doesnt help in that matter either.


any thoughts?

[Saint John]

I think he said with his new guitar he wants a "fatter, grittier" sound...if I'm remembering correctly. That would certainly take some of the melodic element from his sound. Sounded really good live in Vegas, though. I think he should consider playing different guitars for different songs. Many people have come accustomed to that signature sound on the classics.

[Arkansas]

Sounds like he's gone back to more processing. And in many cases, that's good. The sustain he creates with whatever gizmos he's using give it a really really hot sizzling vibe. I think it's fantastic. But it does come across as a little too thick at times in certain songs. For example, in Turn Down the Work Tonight, there's a point where he plays this little supporting background chop, and it sounds foggy or too distorted.

I think overall, this is definitely a Neal Schon album. Cain's keys could be more prominant at times, as well as Valory's fills. AP is front and center, as he should be, and DC's drumming is heavy. But NS stands out on everything...maybe more than he should. And that could be attributed to tone and processing, maybe just mixing. Not sure.


later~

[Arkansas]

... I think he should consider playing different guitars for different songs. ...

Totally agree.
Don't sell that white Strat...play the darned thing!
And dust off that old signature Jackson too!


later~

[Journey/Survivor]

But NS stands out on everything...maybe more than he should.

Never. Not possible. There's never too much Neal Schon guitar playing.

My complaint with a few of Neal's solo albums is that at times his guitar is too buried in the mix. It annoys me on his Late Night CD that often the keyboards are drowning-out Neal's guitar. Of course on songs that have vocals you certainly don't want to drown-out the lead vocals. But in the case of his solo albums it's just annoying if the Keyboards drown-out his guitar.

[brywool]

I think he said with his new guitar he wants a "fatter, grittier" sound...if I'm remembering correctly. That would certainly take some of the melodic element from his sound. Sounded really good live in Vegas, though. I think he should consider playing different guitars for different songs. Many people have come accustomed to that signature sound on the classics.

When I watched the video, I was thankful that he went back to Les Pauls.

[RumTumJM]

It is me or is there a loud "whistle" that you can hear on What It Takes To Win (around 1:57). Is that just my CD or is it the recording (like feedback or something)?

[strangegrey]

I find not only his tone, but his guitar playing to be a handful of notches down on this record. His tone sucks. I really wish he'd stop using these fucking modelers and go back to recording with REAL guitar amps. Lifeless tone....you can really hear the dead sound on the intro to Change for the better.

I also find his solo melody writing to be rather, eh, not so good on this album. His technical ability has really dropped in quality too. Take a listen to his recorded solo on FITH. Then listen to the original on gens. The gens solo actually has tighter execution. The solo on Revs, blows in comparison.


Really, maybe the guy should consider going back to drinking....To me, he's lost a great deal of technique and magic. Maybe deep down inside, he's sad that he's now playing for a tribute band instead of the real thing. WTF knows.

[JeremyP]

I was thinking of starting a thread like this myself.

In my opinion, Neal's guitar tone has sounded, for lack of a better term, like cardboard since Red13. Cardboard is just the first word that pops into my head when I hear his recent recordings...lol.

His tone had become verrrry thin and nasally.

I think Jeremey mentioned him using a Vox Tonelab on the demo for "Never Walk Away". It certainly sounds like he's been using a digital processing unit since at least 2002. I know he gave interviews around that time stating the he was mainly using a Digitech GNX Workstation.

Don't get me wrong, I've heard digital gear produce amazingly natural sounds(listen to some of Gary Schutts' instructional clips on youtube) and I love my PODXT to death but it sounds like he doesn't know how to tweak it or something. This has been bugging me forever and I was hoping it'd be remedied on the new album, but oh well.

[ProgRocker53]

Threads like these and the ones where people discuss "drum tones" actually make me kind of thankful I'm not a tone conoisseur.

I like being able to jam to a good piece of music without being able to tweak out about tones.

IF I was knowledgeable about this stuff I'm sure it'd be bugging me too fellas.

[strangegrey]

Neal's been using modelers longer than that.

His entire touring rig during the arrival tour was a combination of the following 3 items:

Boss GT-3 (predomantly responsible for clean sounds, and when utilized, run through a marshall tube power amp into a marshall 1960 cab)
Boss SD-1
Fender Cybertwin 2x12 combo (he got most of his distorted sounds from this, and midi controlled the cybertwin from his GT-3)


The guy's been relying on modelling shit for at least a decade. His arrival tracks were almost all doubled a with pod v2, by admission from Cavedrunk himself.

[Red13JoePa]

Cavedrunk himself.

[JeremyP]

Oh yeah, somebody(maybe Kevin Shirley) posted the track sheet for Arrival after it was relaeased and one of the tracks was marked "POD gtr" or something similar...maybe just POD, I can't remember...anyway, I'd forgotten about that until now.

I agree with the statements about his playing...it's become so unimaginative and boring...all finger flapping and no real hooks. Maybe he's gotten lazy and doesn't wanna sit down and figure out something melodic to compliment the song.


Prog, you gotta get into tweaking/critiquing tones, man...it's like crack.

[Ehwmatt]

I'm on the fence... sometimes I think it sounds a bit thin and other times I think it sounds great. It's really a lot different when you hear it live and in person. Neal has always sounded larger than life when I've heard him in person... that delay running in stereo really fattens the sound. I also think the delay works pretty well on some studio leads like Never Walk Away. I think the effects are fine, especially live... but I do think it's a problem if he's using pedals or modelers to record with. That stuff should almost always be added post-recording by dedicated units after the guitar has laid down a "dry track." I suspect he is recording with a lot of modelers and pedals and that's part of the problem. I think the new LP might be a bit of the problem too... something tells me it has one too many bells and whistles that end up sucking a bit of tone. But that's pure speculation, and as others have noted, his recorded tone hasn't been great since the new millennium and he was using PRSs at one point.

Whoever mentioned the part in Turn Down The World Tonight, I know exactly what you're talking about... it sounds like mush. We've heard him do that exact fill a million times on Open Arms and When You Love A Woman and it sounds so much better on both of those tracks.

My final verdict is that he needs to mix it up more... the heavily processed tones work at times and others he needs a more organic sounding tone. This is especially true of the older stuff, like Wheel in the Sky. That original record has such a classic rock guitar tone to it and the current tones just sound so biting and just not quite right. Steve Lukather has this kind of balance down pretty well and to me he and Schon are very similar stylistically, at least within the confines of Toto and Journey. Neal should strive to find the kind of tonal balance/variety Luke seems to have found. Put down the workstations and the mutant-in-an-LP body every once in a while and plug in a Strat, Neal. I really love Neal's feel on a Strat or single coil axe (see: I'll Be Alright Without You, Big Moon from Beyond The Thunder and of course Lights).

BTW, whoever said his technique has gotten worse and his playing sucks now, you have to be crazy.

[ProgRocker53]

IBAWY and Big Moon are two of Neal's most shining moments...

[Ehwmatt]

IBAWY and Big Moon are two of Neal's most shining moments...

Big Moon singlehandedly made me buy a Strat upon hearing.

[Arkansas]

IBAWY and Big Moon are two of Neal's most shining moments...

Big Moon singlehandedly made me buy a Strat upon hearing.

SRV's 'Riviera Paradise' made me want one.


later~

[brywool]

It is me or is there a loud "whistle" that you can hear on What It Takes To Win (around 1:57). Is that just my CD or is it the recording (like feedback or something)?

I think it's an overtone that Neal played.

[Barb]

IBAWY and Big Moon are two of Neal's most shining moments...

Big Moon singlehandedly made me buy a Strat upon hearing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJMiCAYDNIU

[Ehwmatt]

IBAWY and Big Moon are two of Neal's most shining moments...

Big Moon singlehandedly made me buy a Strat upon hearing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJMiCAYDNIU

So good, even if it does sound like 70s porn music

[RSParker]

IBAWY and Big Moon are two of Neal's most shining moments...

amen to that.


its just seems since he started putting out solo albums, Which are great, the compression on his sound is getting heavier and heavier. I have a digital amp, buts there ways to make it sound more organic than what his tone does now. it really bugs the crap out off me.

Listen to Evolution!! thats tone baby!!!!!!!

and the finger flapping.........we already Yngwie, dont need another one.

[Barb]

IBAWY and Big Moon are two of Neal's most shining moments...

Big Moon singlehandedly made me buy a Strat upon hearing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJMiCAYDNIU

So good, even if it does sound like 70s porn music

Neal makes great bedroom music.

[Ehwmatt]

IBAWY and Big Moon are two of Neal's most shining moments...

amen to that.


its just seems since he started putting out solo albums, Which are great, the compression on his sound is getting heavier and heavier. I have a digital amp, buts there ways to make it sound more organic than what his tone does now. it really bugs the crap out off me.

Listen to Evolution!! thats tone baby!!!!!!!

and the finger flapping.........we already Yngwie, dont need another one.

I just don't know what he needs all the processing for... I can cop EVERY Journey tone pretty convincingly with a Boss DD-6, SD-1, CE-5, my humbucker and single coil guitars and my Mesa Maverick combo... no need for all the extra tone suckers.

[larryfromnextdoor]

IBAWY and Big Moon are two of Neal's most shining moments...

Big Moon singlehandedly made me buy a Strat upon hearing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJMiCAYDNIU

i think thats a Tom Anderson.. i remember wanting one until i read the price tag.. i bet that one that Neal is playing is up around $3000 .. ive never touched one but i heard they are amazing..

[RSParker]

IBAWY and Big Moon are two of Neal's most shining moments...

Big Moon singlehandedly made me buy a Strat upon hearing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJMiCAYDNIU

Dear Neal,

Many a child has been concieved listening to your gentle tones. Thank you for the strat and the old tube amps!
Please bring back that WOW and no flappy fingers.

Sincerly.
RSParker

ps.
the solo in "Who's Crying Now" is so underrated, its a crime.

[FishinMagician]

IBAWY and Big Moon are two of Neal's most shining moments...

Big Moon singlehandedly made me buy a Strat upon hearing.

SRV's 'Riviera Paradise' made me want one.


later~

same here!!

[FishinMagician]

also, neals tone is way better/fuller in concert. he has the whole wet/dry combo and it sounds like surround sound almost

[AlienC]

I find not only his tone, but his guitar playing to be a handful of notches down on this record. His tone sucks. I really wish he'd stop using these fucking modelers and go back to recording with REAL guitar amps. Lifeless tone....you can really hear the dead sound on the intro to Change for the better.

I also find his solo melody writing to be rather, eh, not so good on this album. His technical ability has really dropped in quality too. Take a listen to his recorded solo on FITH. Then listen to the original on gens. The gens solo actually has tighter execution. The solo on Revs, blows in comparison.


Really, maybe the guy should consider going back to drinking....To me, he's lost a great deal of technique and magic. Maybe deep down inside, he's sad that he's now playing for a tribute band instead of the real thing. WTF knows.

I would be surprised if he still has any of his old amps anymore. He was being encouraged to sell off all he had amassed and "downsize" as I was shown the door.

I do know of someone here in Northern California that has some of his old equipment and actually has a working '80s era Marshall / Fender / Leslie rig.

Nothing beats tubes and wires. Modelers are ok if you've got to play in a cover band. It's like f'n a fat chick. You don't want anyone to know you did.

[tammy]

It is me or is there a loud "whistle" that you can hear on What It Takes To Win (around 1:57). Is that just my CD or is it the recording (like feedback or something)?

Isn't that weird? I kept thinking it was my dog howling (she has a high pitch) every time I heard it with the headphones on.

[tinylights]

I was also struck by how mid-range and muddy the guitars are on both discs.

Seems like a production issue. They pushed all the low to mid frequencies and there is no life at the high end of the guitar sounds.

It's especially muddy on "Never Walk Away."

Tip for Neal and Kevin Shirley - if you're going to overdub guitars, at least separate them a little so that the overdubs fill some of the higher frequencies. Right now you've got all the guitar sounds crowding the same sonic space. Spread it out a little so that solos and noodling overdubs occupy a different (higher) field of frequencies.

Did the band or Kevin even listen to this CD during the mixing? Or did they just slap it in the burner and start making copies? Because they certainly did not take their time on the post-production mastering process either??? Forgot to encode the song titles on disc 1 and miss-spelled half the songs on disc 2 encoding!!!

my 2cents.