MR

What does legacy sound really mean to you guys anyway? Especially when it comes to Journey? I know you may think there is an obvious answer to this question, but maybe not.

one word Perry

stevew2 wrote:one word Perry

DITTO!!!

Sorry but the solo albums from Steve Perry don't sound like Journey to me. It is way more pop.

To reduce the sound of Journey to the voice of Steve Perry is unfair.

Centaure wrote:Sorry but the solo albums from Steve Perry don't sound like Journey to me. It is way more pop.

To reduce the sound of Journey to the voice of Steve Perry is unfair.

WOW...even Neal said ST sounded like JOURNEY to him (behind the music)!!!

Just like a sports team, a winning formula is not just one person or star, but a sum of it's parts.
SP was one of those parts... the answer is not quite that simple.

Escape Artist wrote:Just like a sports team, a winning formula is not just one person or star, but a sum of it's parts.
SP was one of those parts... the answer is not quite that simple.

You are right!!!! I guess I should have said it's not the legacy sound WITHOUT SP!!!


Stevew2 is always starting something!!!

Greg wrote:What does legacy sound really mean to you guys anyway? Especially when it comes to Journey? I know you may think there is an obvious answer to this question, but maybe not.

For me, it was the truth and passion behind the songs. For me, that is gone and has been gone. These new songs are ok, but very empty (maybe with a couple exceptions). They no longer sound genuine and passionate.

I truly think Steve Perry’s desire/passion/ego/whatever really pushed this band to create things at a higher level. At least that’s what it seems like. And we believed the things Steve sang about. Does anyone really associate any of the new stuff with anything the band has “felt”? Neal and Jon have truly gotten lazy. They hear a hook or hear something that is radio friendly and think wow, we still got it. But there is very little in the last 10 years that has a timeless feel. The best new song, After All These Years, sounded great the first time we heard it (When You Love a Woman) and even the second time we heard it (All the Way). But by the third time…

This new album is ok, but has not one great spot. They should have easily spent another 6 months or so writing something truly great. What was the hurry anyway? Maybe the 4 song deal would have been better. Pick 4 of the best songs, then work on creating something truly great.

Between Infinity and TBF, they never tried to sound like “Journey”. They whole thing was to raise the bar each time. Not copy some formula. To me, that was the legacy and that is gone.

Greg wrote:What does legacy sound really mean to you guys anyway? Especially when it comes to Journey? I know you may think there is an obvious answer to this question, but maybe not.

Tenor or close to, lead vocals.
Lush 3 or 4 part chorus harmony.
Pulse (4/4) driven percussion with phat bass.
Lush guitar leads.
Lush keyboard pads (strings, piano combined, etc..)
Up lifting vocals the whole family can sing along to.

Escape Artist wrote:Just like a sports team, a winning formula is not just one person or star, but a sum of it's parts.
SP was one of those parts... the answer is not quite that simple.

exactly. the current incarnation of journey can seek to create that legacy sound, but at this attempt thay have fallen short. the overall sound might indeed be there, but the lyrical content is abysmal.

Centaure wrote:Sorry but the solo albums from Steve Perry don't sound like Journey to me. It is way more pop.

To reduce the sound of Journey to the voice of Steve Perry is unfair.

Well, lets see:
Neal started then scrapped a reform of Journey with Kevin Chalfant when Perry returned for TBF.
Parted ways with Perry, went on to audition various well known vocalists for the position, including Geoff Tate of Queensryche, but Hired Augeri because "he's Perry with a perm".
Replaced Augeri with Soto in an official capacity then went on to fire him because he didn't represent their "legacy sound" (i.e. Didn't sound like Perry).
Almost went with Jeremy Hunsicker, lead singer in a Journey tribute band called Frontiers over JSS.
Finally settled on Arnel Pineda who Neal and Jon refer to as keeping with their legacy sound.

Based not only what they've said in multiple interviews but on their actions, apparently, Neal and Jon disagree with you.

Memorex wrote:

Greg wrote:What does legacy sound really mean to you guys anyway? Especially when it comes to Journey? I know you may think there is an obvious answer to this question, but maybe not.

For me, it was the truth and passion behind the songs. For me, that is gone and has been gone. These new songs are ok, but very empty (maybe with a couple exceptions). They no longer sound genuine and passionate.

I truly think Steve Perry’s desire/passion/ego/whatever really pushed this band to create things at a higher level. At least that’s what it seems like. And we believed the things Steve sang about. Does anyone really associate any of the new stuff with anything the band has “felt”? Neal and Jon have truly gotten lazy. They hear a hook or hear something that is radio friendly and think wow, we still got it. But there is very little in the last 10 years that has a timeless feel. The best new song, After All These Years, sounded great the first time we heard it (When You Love a Woman) and even the second time we heard it (All the Way). But by the third time…

This new album is ok, but has not one great spot. They should have easily spent another 6 months or so writing something truly great. What was the hurry anyway? Maybe the 4 song deal would have been better. Pick 4 of the best songs, then work on creating something truly great.

Between Infinity and TBF, they never tried to sound like “Journey”. They whole thing was to raise the bar each time. Not copy some formula. To me, that was the legacy and that is gone.

WOW...this is BEAUTIFULLY worded!!

STORY_TELLER wrote:

Centaure wrote:Sorry but the solo albums from Steve Perry don't sound like Journey to me. It is way more pop.

To reduce the sound of Journey to the voice of Steve Perry is unfair.

Well, lets see:
Neal started then scrapped a reform of Journey with Kevin Chalfant when Perry returned for TBF.
Parted ways with Perry, went on to audition various well known vocalists for the position, including Geoff Tate of Queensryche, but Hired Augeri because "he's Perry with a perm".
Replaced Augeri with Soto in an official capacity then went on to fire him because he didn't represent their "legacy sound" (i.e. Didn't sound like Perry).
Almost went with Jeremy Hunsicker, lead singer in a Journey tribute band called Frontiers over JSS.
Finally settled on Arnel Pineda who Neal and Jon refer to as keeping with their legacy sound.

Based not only what they've said in multiple interviews but on their actions, apparently, Neal and Jon disagree with you.

Exactly! JOURNEY has "reduced the sound of Journey to the voice of Steve Perry" by focusing on his voice - going thru 3 singers looking for someone to copy him note for note..

Michigan Girl wrote:

Escape Artist wrote:Just like a sports team, a winning formula is not just one person or star, but a sum of it's parts.
SP was one of those parts... the answer is not quite that simple.

You are right!!!! I guess I should have said it's not the legacy sound WITHOUT SP!!!


Stevew2 is always starting something!!!

Hey I didnt start the thread lol, Agreeing with Friga doesnt always make you gay. Perry sounding vocals is the legacy, with the music of coarse but that is the main ingredient, like alcohol in beer Even Progg would understand that

stevew2 wrote:

Michigan Girl wrote:

Escape Artist wrote:Just like a sports team, a winning formula is not just one person or star, but a sum of it's parts.
SP was one of those parts... the answer is not quite that simple.

You are right!!!! I guess I should have said it's not the legacy sound WITHOUT SP!!!


Stevew2 is always starting something!!!

Hey I didnt start the thread lol, Agreeing with Friga doesnt always make you gay. Perry sounding vocals is the legacy, with the music of coarse but that is the main ingredient, like alcohol in beer Even Progg would understand that

HEY...FROOTLOOP...Calm Down!!!! I was J/K!!!

Michigan Girl wrote:

stevew2 wrote:

Michigan Girl wrote:

Escape Artist wrote:Just like a sports team, a winning formula is not just one person or star, but a sum of it's parts.
SP was one of those parts... the answer is not quite that simple.

You are right!!!! I guess I should have said it's not the legacy sound WITHOUT SP!!!


Stevew2 is always starting something!!!

Hey I didnt start the thread lol, Agreeing with Friga doesnt always make you gay. Perry sounding vocals is the legacy, with the music of coarse but that is the main ingredient, like alcohol in beer Even Progg would understand that

HEY...FROOTLOOP...Calm Down!!!! I was J/K!!!

I know, I prefer Fruity Pebbles

Did you notice?...I misspelled FRUIT just for YOU!!!

stevew2 wrote:I know, I prefer Fruity Pebbles

Then this album is for you!

Michigan Girl wrote:Did you notice?...I misspelled FRUIT just for YOU!!!

didnt notice I thought that was the way it was spelled, trying to trick my ugh?

The legacy sound of any band is what makes them stand apart from the rest. Basically, what differentiates them.

To me, it's primarily Perry. No question about it.

Lula wrote:

Escape Artist wrote:Just like a sports team, a winning formula is not just one person or star, but a sum of it's parts.
SP was one of those parts... the answer is not quite that simple.

exactly. the current incarnation of journey can seek to create that legacy sound, but at this attempt thay have fallen short. the overall sound might indeed be there, but the lyrical content is abysmal.

I think some of the lyrics are quite strong on this.....

Eric wrote:

Lula wrote:

Escape Artist wrote:Just like a sports team, a winning formula is not just one person or star, but a sum of it's parts.
SP was one of those parts... the answer is not quite that simple.

exactly. the current incarnation of journey can seek to create that legacy sound, but at this attempt thay have fallen short. the overall sound might indeed be there, but the lyrical content is abysmal.

I think some of the lyrics are quite strong on this.....

SOME of the lyrics are strong, others though.. follow the trend of various forms of faith and believing and love laid down by the band since friggin' forever. Kudos on them though for slight lyrical horizon-expanding with What It Takes To Win, (a song NOT about faith and believing and love).

I'd love Journey so much more (if that's at all possible) if they'd be more versatile lyrically. Not bad lyrics at all, Cain knows how to pen some mean rhymes, but... I'm tired of love songs.

Nicely done dude. I'm with you 100%. Especially on the bold below.

Now if we could get Neal to shit can the keyboards.

texafana wrote:

Greg wrote:What does legacy sound really mean to you guys anyway? Especially when it comes to Journey? I know you may think there is an obvious answer to this question, but maybe not.

Tenor or close to, lead vocals.
Lush 3 or 4 part chorus harmony.
Pulse (4/4) driven percussion with phat bass.
Lush guitar leads.
Lush keyboard pads (strings, piano combined, etc..)
Up lifting vocals the whole family can sing along to.

Eric wrote:

Lula wrote:

Escape Artist wrote:Just like a sports team, a winning formula is not just one person or star, but a sum of it's parts.
SP was one of those parts... the answer is not quite that simple.

exactly. the current incarnation of journey can seek to create that legacy sound, but at this attempt thay have fallen short. the overall sound might indeed be there, but the lyrical content is abysmal.

I think some of the lyrics are quite strong on this.....

It's not the lyrics per se. Cain's problem is he doesn't have the head for song structure that Perry does. He's talented and prolific as hell, but Perry was the creative architect, the focal point who focused the band's many talents into crafting the final song. He united their individual talents into making a seamless well structured song. The new songs, while supercharged energy wise, lack the craftsmanship of the Perry stuff. Everyone seems to be showing off what they can do on some level over focusing on the song itself. Doesn't mean this isn't their best post Perry release. It is, hands down. No doubt. But doesn't rise to what they were with Perry in the mix.

If you listen to the hour long recording session boot of "missing you", you can hear Perry working and reworking the lyrics to fit the melody. Shaving what's being said, simplifying lyrics, short handing to a degree. I get the feeling Cain writes a lyric and sticks with it, trying instead to make the melody fit the words, not vice versa.

They were good together. Too damn bad they don't get along.

STORY_TELLER wrote:

Eric wrote:

Lula wrote:

Escape Artist wrote:Just like a sports team, a winning formula is not just one person or star, but a sum of it's parts.
SP was one of those parts... the answer is not quite that simple.

exactly. the current incarnation of journey can seek to create that legacy sound, but at this attempt thay have fallen short. the overall sound might indeed be there, but the lyrical content is abysmal.

I think some of the lyrics are quite strong on this.....

It's not the lyrics per se. Cain's problem is he doesn't have the head for song structure that Perry does. He's talented and prolific as hell, but Perry was the creative architect, the focal point who focused the band's many talents into crafting the final song. He united their individual talents into making a seamless well structured song. The new songs, while supercharged energy wise, lack the craftsmanship of the Perry stuff. Everyone seems to be showing off what they can do on some level over focusing on the song itself. Doesn't mean this isn't their best post Perry release. It is, hands down. No doubt. But doesn't rise to what they were with Perry in the mix.

If you listen to the hour long recording session boot of "missing you", you can hear Perry working and reworking the lyrics to fit the melody. Shaving what's being said, simplifying lyrics, short handing to a degree. I get the feeling Cain writes a lyric and sticks with it, trying instead to make the melody fit the words, not vice versa.

They were good together. Too damn bad they don't get along.

Great post, Story Teller. I agree with everything you said, and want to take it a step further. For me, it was the delivery of the songs by Steve Perry that makes them stand head & shoulders above the others. I guess it's the whole "he bleeds a little each time he sings" thing that Friga was talking about. He made us FEEL the passion of the music, whether it was a love song like 'Faithfully' or a pop tune like 'Be Good to Yourself'. IDK, I guess I'm saying with Perry singing, it wasn't just a song, but an emotional experience.

Truthfully, I didn't really get this way back in the 80's. It wasn't until I rediscovered Journey a few years ago that I came to this realization. I simply appreciate his gift so much. I hope he sees fit to share it with us again.

Michigan Girl wrote:

Memorex wrote:

Greg wrote:What does legacy sound really mean to you guys anyway? Especially when it comes to Journey? I know you may think there is an obvious answer to this question, but maybe not.

For me, it was the truth and passion behind the songs. For me, that is gone and has been gone. These new songs are ok, but very empty (maybe with a couple exceptions). They no longer sound genuine and passionate.

I truly think Steve Perry’s desire/passion/ego/whatever really pushed this band to create things at a higher level. At least that’s what it seems like. And we believed the things Steve sang about. Does anyone really associate any of the new stuff with anything the band has “felt”? Neal and Jon have truly gotten lazy. They hear a hook or hear something that is radio friendly and think wow, we still got it. But there is very little in the last 10 years that has a timeless feel. The best new song, After All These Years, sounded great the first time we heard it (When You Love a Woman) and even the second time we heard it (All the Way). But by the third time…

This new album is ok, but has not one great spot. They should have easily spent another 6 months or so writing something truly great. What was the hurry anyway? Maybe the 4 song deal would have been better. Pick 4 of the best songs, then work on creating something truly great.

Between Infinity and TBF, they never tried to sound like “Journey”. They whole thing was to raise the bar each time. Not copy some formula. To me, that was the legacy and that is gone.

WOW...this is BEAUTIFULLY worded!!

It's true Journey raises the bar at a higher level...that's the fact...a worst day for Steve Augeri is a great day for Jeff Scott Soto...that was the comment from Herbie Herbert....then Arnel Pineda was sick the day they re-recorded the Anyway You Want It song and nailed it, same day he was sick....so a sick Arnel Pineda is a great day for Steve Perry on his prime, recording the song Anyway You Want It......ridiculously sickening....that's the rockline comments in the interview...that is ridiculously raising the bar at a higher level....now that's JOURNEY at it's best...

Greg wrote:What does legacy sound really mean to you guys anyway?

Perry's vocals! All you had to do is watch the Journey interview on CBS Sunday Morning last week. Ross and Neal pretty must said that, without mentioning Perry by name. They both said that Journey was known for the powerful vocals, and we know they're not talking about Augeri!


John from Boston

junkitkat wrote:It's true Journey raises the bar at a higher level...that's the fact...a worst day for Steve Augeri is a great day for Jeff Scott Soto...that was the comment from Herbie Herbert....then Arnel Pineda was sick the day they re-recorded the Anyway You Want It song and nailed it, same day he was sick....so a sick Arnel Pineda is a great day for Steve Perry on his prime, recording the song Anyway You Want It......ridiculously sickening....that's the rockline comments in the interview...that is ridiculously raising the bar at a higher level....now that's JOURNEY at it's best...

Nice first post. Have no idea what you were saying and it still came off idiotic. You'll fit right in.

junkitkat wrote:

Michigan Girl wrote:

Memorex wrote:

Greg wrote:What does legacy sound really mean to you guys anyway? Especially when it comes to Journey? I know you may think there is an obvious answer to this question, but maybe not.

For me, it was the truth and passion behind the songs. For me, that is gone and has been gone. These new songs are ok, but very empty (maybe with a couple exceptions). They no longer sound genuine and passionate.

I truly think Steve Perry’s desire/passion/ego/whatever really pushed this band to create things at a higher level. At least that’s what it seems like. And we believed the things Steve sang about. Does anyone really associate any of the new stuff with anything the band has “felt”? Neal and Jon have truly gotten lazy. They hear a hook or hear something that is radio friendly and think wow, we still got it. But there is very little in the last 10 years that has a timeless feel. The best new song, After All These Years, sounded great the first time we heard it (When You Love a Woman) and even the second time we heard it (All the Way). But by the third time…

This new album is ok, but has not one great spot. They should have easily spent another 6 months or so writing something truly great. What was the hurry anyway? Maybe the 4 song deal would have been better. Pick 4 of the best songs, then work on creating something truly great.

Between Infinity and TBF, they never tried to sound like “Journey”. They whole thing was to raise the bar each time. Not copy some formula. To me, that was the legacy and that is gone.

WOW...this is BEAUTIFULLY worded!!

It's true Journey raises the bar at a higher level...that's the fact...a worst day for Steve Augeri is a great day for Jeff Scott Soto...that was the comment from Herbie Herbert....then Arnel Pineda was sick the day they re-recorded the Anyway You Want It song and nailed it, same day he was sick....so a sick Arnel Pineda is a great day for Steve Perry on his prime, recording the song Anyway You Want It......ridiculously sickening....that's the rockline comments in the interview...that is ridiculously raising the bar at a higher level....now that's JOURNEY at it's best...

that


was


AWESOME.