MR

I know it is somewhat premature to be talking about the follow up to Revelations but I was wondering if it is possible for Journey to repeat the same trick with the WalMart deal or does this only work as a one off?

I would be interested to hear what you think.

I'd imagine that...
If Revelation is as successful as it has a real shot at being, any supposedly one-off deal can be extended/replicated.
In any putative round 2, Walmart may have much less say on what the new album will be like.

It's kinda exciting, trying to guess whether Revelation will turn out to be representative of the 'sound' of
future albums, or if Journey will springboard a new musical direction from it. (Almost as exciting as trying
to guess whether a post-Perry and post-Augeri Journey has learned to take serious care of its lead vocalist).


-wech

First of all, let's see how successful Revelation is first...

Guess it also depends on who will be singing lead vocals on the next album.

Greg wrote:Guess it also depends on who will be singing lead vocals on the next album.

I want to see what happens when some version of greatest hits isn't included in the package, then we'll see where they stand. Another indicator in how they are doing will be if they play more than 3 or 4 new songs by the END of their tour. What they start out playing, may not be what they are mandated to play as the move forward in the tour. Let's see what happens.

I think it's too bad that it took burning out all their vocalists before they came to the REVELATION that too many nights in a row, meet & greets, and stress on their singers is not in anyone's best interest....unless you think of people as disposable. Use them up and move on to the next one...or just lip .

jrnyjetster wrote:First of all, let's see how successful Revelation is first...

For the sake of argument lets just say Revelation is successful. Is it then likely that a second Walmart deal would prove to be less successful because the novelty factor has worn off? Will the "exclusive to Walmart" idea start to wear thin with the buying public? Isn't it true that some sales are based on the perception that the product is scare and you need to buy it up before it disappears. If more bands that go for this deal will it result in the whole impact becoming diluted?

The next step might be not to release a CD but to have an new album available by download only?

Just musing for the simple reason that it's better than working!

Perhaps they package it with re-recordings of the rare/unreleased material on Time3?
Or they re-record a live Captured CD?

How many different ways with how many different singers can they repackage those songs? Let's hope this was a one-time thing for the Walmart deal...and done. My patience with the overuse of their classic catalog wears thin.

Put out a double disc live record from the Revelation tour.

Get as many new cuts as possible, get a good deal of the DD on there but then as many nights as is feasible mix in and record one deep cut. An It Could Have Been you. A Lay It Down. A Frontiers. An I'm Crying. An Out Of Harm's Way. A Sweet And Simple. A World Gone Wild. An Opened The Door. An I Can Breathe. A Once You Love Somebody. A Can't Tame The Lion. An A Better Life. Make SURE After The Fall is there.

Maybe a lot to ask, I don't know but the deluxe triple package that is Revelation seemed to come together in short order and we already have stadium themed DD affairs in Captured and GHL.

EightyRock wrote:How many different ways with how many different singers can they repackage those songs? Let's hope this was a one-time thing for the Walmart deal...and done. My patience with the overuse of their classic catalog wears thin.

Um, it was a joke.

I don't believe you can keep releasing packages like this and get away with it. You eventually have to realize that new music is going to make or break you. Let's face it, a lot of these packages are being sold because of the price of the package, and because of the Greatest Hits (and I don't care what anybody says, you'll have people buying this package thinking the GHs are the originals.)

Whatever excuses you want to throw out there, they have a top 4 album right now.

Since when is it illegal to price something affordably, to move?


I thought the band was all about greed and the money?

Duncan wrote:I know it is somewhat premature to be talking about the follow up to Revelations but I was wondering if it is possible for Journey to repeat the same trick with the WalMart deal or does this only work as a one off?

I would be interested to hear what you think.

That entirely depends on who the next singer is. Perhaps there's another untapped market of carpet bagging fans waiting to jump onto the journey bandwagon....then the band can talk about how their new, underprivledged singer made them better people and how it's such a feel good story that they were able to pull a starving singer out of the ghetto of a hard rock cafe ballroom...

Red13JoePa wrote:Whatever excuses you want to throw out there, they have a top 4 album right now.

Since when is it illegal to price something affordably, to move?


I thought the band was all about greed and the money?

Whoa dude....don't get your panties in a bind!

Gezz... lay off the B-12!

Red13JoePa wrote:I thought the band was all about greed and the money?

Dude, they are. Seriously...the nice price doesn't change that. I'm convinced something had to give in order to price the album like that. Some are speculating that corners were cut in the actual CD duplication, perhaps in production, perhaps in the deal they have with walmart...whatever. But I wouldn't believe for one second that they are doing this for the love of music and their fans...we know how much they love their fans...

They're doing this to make money. as much as possible, before they fizzle out somewhere for some reason, whether it's another singer hunt or a legal action from a past singer that puts a financial strain, who the fuck knows...

also, keep in mind, The walmart deal was rather lucrative for journey, prior to the album ever getting released. Frontiers records paid dearly for exclusivity on the european distribution of this album.

Trust me, this band is *all* about making money. as much as humanly possible before the fit hits the shan and they can't draw a soul anymore...

When Pineda came aboard we told by 90 % (Frank, you're excluded from that) of the board that what has now happened WOULD NOT happen without Jeff, who was their ONLY chance at go-forward success.

Now it's nothing but alibis for WHY it's doing well.

Well, they're exploiting Arnel (even though we were told there'd be NO admission that the singer wasn't perry).

Well, they're selling it too cheap (even though Schon/Cain have cornered the market on greed).

Well, people think it's the GH (even though those are relegated to D2 AFTER, BTW it was sworn up down left right and center that the rerecords would be D1) despite the fact that the label clearly states first 11 brand new tracks and 11 rerecorded hits.

strangegrey wrote:

Red13JoePa wrote:I thought the band was all about greed and the money?

Dude, they are. Seriously...the nice price doesn't change that. I'm convinced something had to give in order to price the album like that. Some are speculating that corners were cut in the actual CD duplication, perhaps in production, perhaps in the deal they have with walmart...whatever. But I wouldn't believe for one second that they are doing this for the love of music and their fans...we know how much they love their fans...

They're doing this to make money. as much as possible, before they fizzle out somewhere for some reason, whether it's another singer hunt or a legal action from a past singer that puts a financial strain, who the fuck knows...

also, keep in mind, The walmart deal was rather lucrative for journey, prior to the album ever getting released. Frontiers records paid dearly for exclusivity on the european distribution of this album.

Trust me, this band is *all* about making money. as much as humanly possible before the fit hits the shan and they can't draw a soul anymore...

I think they've treated their fans well. I can't think of one thing they've done wrong. As far as making money, God Bless Them. Who doesn't want to make cash. There is no doubt they are getting near the end due to their ages, maybe 5 years left although Neal may be able to go another 10+. I think they've managed their legacy well, so they should be able to cash in for awhile. It was do to that excellent management that helped bring them the Sopranos episode. If they whored it out before hand, opportunities like that would not exist. Good job Herbie and Irving along with Neal, Jon, and Steve.

"Let's reform this thing.Let's go out and get some guys who want to work and go do it"--Neal Schon February, 2001
"I looked at Neal, and I just saw a guy who really wants his band back"-JCain 2/01

Those were great moments from BTM.

Red13JoePa wrote:Put out a double disc live record from the Revelation tour.

Get as many new cuts as possible, get a good deal of the DD on there but then as many nights as is feasible mix in and record one deep cut. An It Could Have Been you. A Lay It Down. A Frontiers. An I'm Crying. An Out Of Harm's Way. A Sweet And Simple. A World Gone Wild. An Opened The Door. An I Can Breathe. A Once You Love Somebody. A Can't Tame The Lion. An A Better Life. Make SURE After The Fall is there.

Maybe a lot to ask, I don't know but the deluxe triple package that is Revelation seemed to come together in short order and we already have stadium themed DD affairs in Captured and GHL.

Boy, I hope not... I just bought re-recorded old stuff Rj. Don't want more even if it's stuff that isn't live and released. Lots of this stuff is available on bootlegs with Augeri and I hope, more will become available with Arnel, but I wish they'd keep to creating new music. I just like hearing NEW stuff. I don't know about you, but I got a rush out of hearing a new CD from Journey.
There was a period where Styx would do live albums over and over again... ugh. Got really old.
They should have Rollie guest on the next album just to play. Just because it would be a cool thing to do. Have Augeri do some backups, have Smith play a tune- JUST to kind of mend some fences with those players that might be 'mendable'.... Or, they could sit home and play with their cats. Me likey kitty cats!

OR put out the double live as a download from their site then release a new album 3 mos later!

Tito wrote:"Let's reform this thing.Let's go out and get some guys who want to work and go do it"--Neal Schon February, 2001
"I looked at Neal, and I just saw a guy who really wants his band back"-JCain 2/01

Those were great moments from BTM.

Best moment was when Herbie goes "Not part of the band... *raspberry*"

Red13JoePa wrote:When Pineda came aboard we told by 90 % (Frank, you're excluded from that) of the board that what has now happened WOULD NOT happen without Jeff, who was their ONLY chance at go-forward success.

Now it's nothing but alibis for WHY it's doing well.

Well, they're exploiting Arnel (even though we were told there'd be NO admission that the singer wasn't perry).

Well, they're selling it too cheap (even though Schon/Cain have cornered the market on greed).

Well, people think it's the GH (even though those are relegated to D2 AFTER, BTW it was sworn up down left right and center that the rerecords would be D1) despite the fact that the label clearly states first 11 brand new tracks and 11 rerecorded hits.

da man's gotta point...

Of course I do.

It'll be lost on most of the knotheads here but still.

Greg wrote:Guess it also depends on who will be singing lead vocals on the next album.

If ever there will be a next album...

Centaure wrote:

Greg wrote:Guess it also depends on who will be singing lead vocals on the next album.

If ever there will be a next album...

Yeah, the band apparently have a top 4 album and a huge tour ahead of them. Yer right, sounds like they're packing it in.

Red13JoePa wrote:When Pineda came aboard we told by 90 % (Frank, you're excluded from that) of the board that what has now happened WOULD NOT happen without Jeff, who was their ONLY chance at go-forward success.

Well, I didn't say anything to that effect, so I thank you for you dispensation! I do feel that Jeff was, in some eyes including my own, a last gasp chance at doing this with dignity...

While success and dignity rarely go hand in hand, the fact remains that I felt strongly then, as i do now, that they lost any semblance of respect when they canned JSS. Is that what's fueled my frustration with journey or any parties involved with them? no...only added a few more pints of gas to the tank.

There are most certainly people that have tossed aside their anger and frustration with the band, after hearing arnel sing...and there are more that have done that after approving of the new CD. I don't fall into either category, but I have to admit, I'm jaded with this music tobegin with. Journey is partly responsible for that, but I'm not going to tell you my lack of positive outlook on journey's future is entirely because of arnel, jss, augeri, perry, fucka, fro or anything positive or negative they may have done.

I'm just sick and tired of the bullshit in Melodic rock. There's NOT ONE MR band in my past that has been able to hold all the original members..and in almost all cases, it's due to ego clashing. VH, Jrny, Night ranger, styx, dokken, white lion, you fucking name it....sorry, that's just fucking sad.

Red13JoePa wrote:Now it's nothing but alibis for WHY it's doing well.

why it's doing well? Dude, the album's been in release for 1 week. There's plenty of time for this album to either explode and become the greatest thing since sliced bread, or fucking implode and become a sheer embarassment. Sorry....while I agree with what you're driving at, no one here or elsewhere has a leg to stand on with respect to whether or not journey has found success with it's album. Way too early to fly that flag, either way.

Red13JoePa wrote:Well, they're exploiting Arnel (even though we were told there'd be NO admission that the singer wasn't perry).

They *are* exploiting him. that's not up for debate. Arnel might very well be a willing participant, but I would bet my left *and* right testicles that arnel does not have an equity share in this. He's a salaried cat, just like Deen and Ross. He might get a cut of the merch sales, but I highly doubt he's pulling in any percentages of anything else.

I also dont entirely agree with your claim that people are stating journey would never mention arnel's really singing, that's not the point. they went out and found a guy that is closer to perry than augeri and jss combined. While they are exploiting arnel's poor and/or foreign background in certain media markets, in other's they dont dare say a word that it's not perry. They'd rather keep that quiet. It depends on where they're exploiting what angle. But they are most certainly trying to ride each angle to their full and unabashed advantage....I don't think that should be a point of contention. really...any band with a blood thirsty prick for a manager (and that goes for the manager of the band's singer as well) would do the same thing.

Red13JoePa wrote:Well, they're selling it too cheap (even though Schon/Cain have cornered the market on greed).

I've said this already, given the price point, they're most definitely cutting costs to get it out there, but dont think for one second they are giving it away. What you should be aware of, is before this album was ever released, Assoff squeezed a huge gauranteed number from walmart. He did the same thing with Frontiers...and from what i hear, the record isnt moving as nicely across in europe.

They are greedy pricks...they've never been anything but. The price of the cd doesn't change that fact at all.

Red13JoePa wrote:Well, people think it's the GH (even though those are relegated to D2 AFTER, BTW it was sworn up down left right and center that the rerecords would be D1) despite the fact that the label clearly states first 11 brand new tracks and 11 rerecorded hits.

Well, no comments there. I wasn't privy to conversations on either end regarding this. I dunno if it's a point of contention either. who cares whether or not its first or second....I still think that the rerecords are a fucking nightmare waiting to happen. I don't care if Journey claims it was a requirement of walmart. THAT, I believe, is a lie. Did walmart require the eagles rerecord their shit? And if they did, you can bet your white ass that Don Henley and Glen Fry both collectively told walmart to go fuck themselves....as it would be a career mistake to do such a thing.

strangegrey wrote:

Red13JoePa wrote: Well, they're exploiting Arnel (even though we were told there'd be NO admission that the singer wasn't perry).

They *are* exploiting him. that's not up for debate.

I know Frank and that's my point.
The people who hung Schon/Cain ("Frig and 'Fro" to them ) by their BAGS this whole time predicted there would be no acknowledgement of the singer change, hoodwinking the sheeple into thinking Nosehead was still up there.
It's exactly the opposite, they're admitting and embracing Pineada's advent.

In one week it's ALREADY pushing what Arrival did.

Red13JoePa wrote:In one week it's ALREADY pushing what Arrival did.

You can't directly compare the two.

Wal-Mart wasn't doing any type of album promoting back in 2001... if they were, and as widespread as they are now, Arrival would have went gold.

I still can't believe how Sony fucked that up. You had the wildly successful BTM episode... and then did NOTHING with the album.

How Do They Market the Next CD?


Well first they have to decide which song from Revelation they are going to re-do and pass it off as a new song.