MR

I want everyone to go back in time for this one. When Soto took the reigns from Augeri, he was billed as a temporary fill in for Augeri. If you remember correctly, as I do, Journey was completly BLASTED for not supplying us with information, and they should "Just announce Soto as the lead singer and get it over with." I saw that over and over and over again. Do you think in hindsight that that is why he was even announced as lead singer in the first place? I mean they were getting alot of flack for not communicating with the fans, but look at it this way, what were they supposed to do mid tour? Post a statement like this:

"Hey fans... Journey again. Augeri sick. No, Perry can't come back. Here is Soto for a little while till we figure what the fuck else to do. Dont stop belivin..."

I think that the demand was why he got the job. Then a few months later they realized they messed up and caved a little to easy. Thus him getting canned. Thoughts?

I think the announcement was a carrot to keep him around for whatever reason. Maybe they didn't even know what they were going to do for sure but knew they weren't going to keep him.

You know, keep a foot on one raft before jumping onto the other. I doubt they made the announcement for us.

Look back and you'll see Neal giving interviews talking about how bright the future is with Jeff. Neal was talking about how Azoff was excited and said they needed to get this lineup in the studio asap. They went so far as to make up official professional photo layouts and posted it on their website.

He was the official lead singer, they just had a change of heart. I think Cain wasn't feeling Jeff and when the tour ended, arguments ensued and he convinced Neal to part ways. I remember seeing clips of performances and Cain would have this scowl at times. When he interviewed about Jeff, he wasn't glowing or as complimentary as Neal. More like he was trying to walk a fine line for PR and not express his true feelings.

StoneCold wrote:I think the announcement was a carrot to keep him around for whatever reason. Maybe they didn't even know what they were going to do for sure but knew they weren't going to keep him.

You know, keep a foot on one raft before jumping onto the other. I doubt they made the announcement for us.

They had booked a europeon tour for that following march of 07. I agree, the annoucement in 06 dec was clearly not for us.
The frustration and anger was that all that tour in 06 they kept saying steve augeri was coming back,
which in a sense was probably to prevent people from turning in their tickets when they realized he would not be there.
That just plain sucks.
I for one lost alot of money on travel expenses etc because they kept that lie going.

Hard to say what was going through their minds at the time. Part of it may have been to put the final nail in Augeri's coffin, and make him go away. I mean they left him in the dark enough that the guy showed up to one of the NJ shows after he left the tour thinking he was still the lead singer of the band and hung out at the soundboard. If you just got canned by your band and management, you probably aren't hanging out with them. I think Cain was probably interested in letting Augeri get well and try to get healthy over some time. Neal however, seemed to want to move on from SA. Deen did some interviews saying Neal didn't look that happy for a few yeears. As everyone knows, $$$$ drives them these days, and they would have lost a lot of it had they pulled out of the DL tour, or taken a summer off to give Augeri the rest he might have needed. Only, the band, Augeri, and Augeri's voal doctors know just how shredded the vocal chords were and the time needed to recover, if he truly could/can fully recover. Jeff was an easy pick for Schon knowing that he knew a decent number of songs. Agreed.... Cain never looked very happy in any clips with Jeff and I think he was the driving force behind Jeff being ousted. It may also have been Neal thinking that the only semi-successful Soul Sirkus thing might be more successful in the Journey form. Journey in any form has been and will continue to be more popular than any of their past, current, or future side project.

marco17 wrote:Hard to say what was going through their minds at the time. Part of it may have been to put the final nail in Augeri's coffin, and make him go away. I mean they left him in the dark enough that the guy showed up to one of the NJ shows after he left the tour thinking he was still the lead singer of the band and hung out at the soundboard. If you just got canned by your band and management, you probably aren't hanging out with them. I think Cain was probably interested in letting Augeri get well and try to get healthy over some time. Neal however, seemed to want to move on from SA. Deen did some interviews saying Neal didn't look that happy for a few yeears. As everyone knows, $$$$ drives them these days, and they would have lost a lot of it had they pulled out of the DL tour, or taken a summer off to give Augeri the rest he might have needed. Only, the band, Augeri, and Augeri's voal doctors know just how shredded the vocal chords were and the time needed to recover, if he truly could/can fully recover. Jeff was an easy pick for Schon knowing that he knew a decent number of songs. Agreed.... Cain never looked very happy in any clips with Jeff and I think he was the driving force behind Jeff being ousted. It may also have been Neal thinking that the only semi-successful Soul Sirkus thing might be more successful in the Journey form. Journey in any form has been and will continue to be more popular than any of their past, current, or future side project.

You make some really good points marco and I would have to agree with some of your statements. I am sure they could not have backed out of the dl tour without alot of legal issues and money loss etc. I think that they especially ns and jc had to have known after the show that they canceled in feb 06 due to steve augeri having pneumonia that it might not be a good
idea to tour that year. I would really hate to think that they believed or did not care what was going on with him phyically and went ahead and booked that tour. would not make much sense. I think when he was struggling the start of that tour
I agree they used it as the final nail like you said. I seem to recall fallof 05 they were saying they were not going to tour in 06 then all of a sudden they were to promote the dvd we never saw. I think it really sucks on their parts to let him show up at the nj show thinking he was still in the band. that is disrespectful and shows no class.
not sure what happened with the split with jss. I do think they announced he was the lead singer due to the european
tour. I also think they lead us to believe steve was coming back to save tix sales. fortunatley I had bought mine through ilaa and was able to get a refund, however not for the travel expenses. I lost alot of money going week to week.
alot of bands tour over june to oct, however I have not seen them tour 5 days aweek for 2- 3 hour sets and until almost
or until dec. none of these guys are 25 anymore.alot of bands and artists have their issues and things that occur within the band and with their personal lives. While I do not feel as fans we have the right to know all the details, most of these bands and artists do not lie to the fans that support them and lead them to believe things that are not true.That is why I have lost respect for them. the journey catalog is a hard catalog to sing and it has to be hard on anyone. In my opinion steve augeri did right by and for them over the past 8 years. It is too bad that greed and not much
commom sense lead them to make the choices that they have made and work him to death.
It is the choices and the way they handled things that has made me lose respect for them.
They took a year off last year and did a cd. why could they not have done that in 03 04 0r 06.
too bad they care more about $$$ than anything else

This is old news. JSS rocks, but just doesn't fit in well with the Journey mold. Seeing what Arnel has done with Journey, they have made an amazing choice. It should be a fun 2-3 year run!!

texafana wrote:JSS rocks, but just doesn't fit in well with the Journey mold.

In your preference pickiness, not mine.
Though I think Mr Pineda is doing finely for the band I would have loved
if Sir Soto had been given half the chance.

Moon Beam wrote:

texafana wrote:JSS rocks, but just doesn't fit in well with the Journey mold.

In your preference pickiness, not mine.
Though I think Mr Pineda is doing finely for the band I would have loved
if Sir Soto had been given half the chance.

Ditto!

STORY_TELLER wrote: I remember seeing clips of performances and Cain would have this scowl at times.

He ALWAYS looks like that....miserable.

Schon Rules All wrote:I think that the demand was why he got the job.?

Categorically and absolutely not.

Andrew wrote:

Schon Rules All wrote:I think that the demand was why he got the job.?

Categorically and absolutely not.

I disagree...and perhaps that was the only reason. Hindsight seems to corroborate that as well.

Saint John wrote:

Andrew wrote:

Schon Rules All wrote:I think that the demand was why he got the job.?

Categorically and absolutely not.

I disagree...and perhaps that was the only reason. Hindsight seems to corroborate that as well.

What part of Catagorically and absolutely - both in the negative sense - do you not get?

I was never convinced Cain was sold on JSS and thought that he might feel threatened by Jeff and Neal's collaboration and think it would take the sound in the SS direction but I would think the decision to let Jeff go was made due to a Wal-mart expectation of a more Perry-ish voice.

Yea, I think about it and I'm over it. Jeff is a great guy and so is Augeri and I hated how everything went down, BUT in the end I think the guys made the right decision for the band, as difficult as that may have been. I think most of us can agree that Arnel is an enormous talent and he is the right man for Journey.

Although Jeff is an awesome talent, I don't think he could have recorded with the band and done any better than Arnel, and in fact, I don't think it would have sold nearly as well. I think that new Journey selling in 2008 is entirely due to returning to their "sound" or actually, to the sound that most casual fans who remember them from years back want to hear. I'm not saying that's necessarily they way it should be, but rather how I think it IS. Just my opinion though, that's all.

Andrew wrote:

Saint John wrote:

Andrew wrote:

Schon Rules All wrote:I think that the demand was why he got the job.?

Categorically and absolutely not.

I disagree...and perhaps that was the only reason. Hindsight seems to corroborate that as well.

What part of Catagorically and absolutely - both in the negative sense - do you not get?

Saint John : " What was the question again?"

i think JSS got let go because instead of giving 1000% to journey after he was hired he did a farewell tour with tailsman... too me that showed lack of judgement on JSS part... I mean if i were to be hired by a company---that was your DREAM JOB...why would you then go and hire yourself out for another company three months into your dream job??? That part to me NEVER MADE ANY SENSE. Iam sure Jon and Neal felt the samy way... just my 2 cents.



Rick

Andrew wrote:

Saint John wrote:

Andrew wrote:

Schon Rules All wrote:I think that the demand was why he got the job.?

Categorically and absolutely not.

I disagree...and perhaps that was the only reason. Hindsight seems to corroborate that as well.

What part of Catagorically and absolutely - both in the negative sense - do you not get?

So you're saying that they didn't offer Augeri the job back??? Several times??? Soto was an emergency option, did extremely well in a tight spot, Neal got all bonered up and thought he had a new "road dog", Azoff sought to make Neal happy and started the contract talks, Cain got Neal to come to his senses, and they backed out. Soto turning Journey into "Show and Tell" didn't help either. I don't think Azoff was ever completely impressed with Jeff, but rather, keeping Neal happy and the tour $$$ coming in.

lights1961 wrote:i think JSS got let go because instead of giving 1000% to journey after he was hired he did a farewell tour with tailsman... too me that showed lack of judgement on JSS part... I mean if i were to be hired by a company---that was your DREAM JOB...why would you then go and hire yourself out for another company three months into your dream job??? That part to me NEVER MADE ANY SENSE. Iam sure Jon and Neal felt the samy way... just my 2 cents.



Rick

With all due respect, That had NOTHING to do with it.Jeff did gave it all when it mattered. The fact that he did cancel the Talisman shows in Summer of 2006 showed Neal & Co that Journey was Jeff's #1 project. He just up and left a band of 17 years , but also he had to do the one last tour for the fans who have followed Talisman for almost 2 decades....
Neal KNEW that Jeff can multitask and he also knoew that Jeff is one artist that would not sit around and do NOTHING for months like the rest of them did. He also knew that the postponed Tour of Talisman was something that needed to be done so Jeff could close that chapter in his career and move on with Journey.
and we all know that Neal himself has been involved in side project too while Journey has been takin a nap between tours and albums.

I think they just changed their minds - and went about announcing it in a horrid way. [The sneaky erasing of JSS's photos from that website for example.]

In this life, your actions define you. And people will judge you upon your actions.

I think a lot of people who liked Jeff accept that it's ok for Journey to decide he wasn't what they wanted, so it's not the decision which pissed JSS fans off so much, but the way it was done. But the announcement of his permanency and then his letting go almost immediately afterwards still baffles.

And people may forgive the actions, but they may never forget.
It's how it goes.

SusieP wrote:I think they just changed their minds - and went about announcing it in a horrid way. [The sneaky erasing of JSS's photos from that website for example.]

In this life, your actions define you. And people will judge you upon your actions.

I think a lot of people who liked Jeff accept that it's ok for Journey to decide he wasn't what they wanted, so it's not the decision which pissed JSS fans off so much, but the way it was done. But the announcement of his permanency and then his letting go almost immediately afterwards still baffles.

And people may forgive the actions, but they may never forget.
It's how it goes.

Exactly !!!

Behshad wrote:

lights1961 wrote:i think JSS got let go because instead of giving 1000% to journey after he was hired he did a farewell tour with tailsman... too me that showed lack of judgement on JSS part... I mean if i were to be hired by a company---that was your DREAM JOB...why would you then go and hire yourself out for another company three months into your dream job??? That part to me NEVER MADE ANY SENSE. Iam sure Jon and Neal felt the samy way... just my 2 cents.



Rick

With all due respect, That had NOTHING to do with it.Jeff did gave it all when it mattered. The fact that he did cancel the Talisman shows in Summer of 2006 showed Neal & Co that Journey was Jeff's #1 project. He just up and left a band of 17 years , but also he had to do the one last tour for the fans who have followed Talisman for almost 2 decades....
Neal KNEW that Jeff can multitask and he also knoew that Jeff is one artist that would not sit around and do NOTHING for months like the rest of them did. He also knew that the postponed Tour of Talisman was something that needed to be done so Jeff could close that chapter in his career and move on with Journey.
and we all know that Neal himself has been involved in side project too while Journey has been takin a nap between tours and albums.

Neal also KNEW that Jeff struggled on some of the catalog and often screamed rather than sang during some of the more demanding parts. Choosing business over friendship is not easy but it was the right choice. The success they are enjoying today would have NEVER happened with JSS.

Gibby wrote:
Neal also KNEW that Jeff struggled on some of the catalog and often screamed rather than sang during some of the more demanding parts. Choosing business over friendship is not easy but it was the right choice. The success they are enjoying today would have NEVER happened with JSS.

No one is even talking about the success with or without Jeff.
Read SusieP's post 2-3 more times. Respond if you understand. If not, move on and try back in 48 hrs.

Gibby wrote:The success they are enjoying today would have NEVER happened with JSS.

You have no way of knowing this.
The clone approach had just failed before with Augeri.
If anything, a fresh take ala Paul Rodgers was arguably a safer bet.

Behshad wrote:

Gibby wrote:
Neal also KNEW that Jeff struggled on some of the catalog and often screamed rather than sang during some of the more demanding parts. Choosing business over friendship is not easy but it was the right choice. The success they are enjoying today would have NEVER happened with JSS.

No one is even talking about the success with or without Jeff.
Read SusieP's post 2-3 more times. Respond if you understand. If not, move on and try back in 48 hrs.

And unless you have crystal balls, Gibby, how can you know that?:lol:

None of us know that.
I'd like to hear Jeff singing the new songs on Revelation, actually.
Particularly the Meatloaf song.

The_Noble_Cause wrote:

Gibby wrote:The success they are enjoying today would have NEVER happened with JSS.

You have no way of knowing this.
The clone approach had just failed before with Augeri.
If anything, a fresh take ala Paul Rodgers was arguably a safer bet.

Exactly! I would like to have seen what a Van Hagar type move would have been like.

The_Noble_Cause wrote:You have no way of knowing this.

Aside from common sense, perhaps not.

The_Noble_Cause wrote:The clone approach had just failed before with Augeri.

Not even close. Arnel is head and shoulders a better singer than Augeri and is not a clone on the new material. Augeri sounded like an injured Steve Perry. Pineda actually sings some parts of the ballads a half step up from Perry. When could Augeri ever do that???

The_Noble_Cause wrote:If anything, a fresh take ala Paul Rodgers was arguably a safer bet.

lol...Paul Rodgers is a legendary frontman with 2 largely successful bands on his resume...not to mention millions of albums moved. The general music listening public has no idea who Soto is.

Saint John wrote:

The_Noble_Cause wrote:You have no way of knowing this.

Aside from common sense, perhaps not.

The_Noble_Cause wrote:The clone approach had just failed before with Augeri.

Not even close. Arnel is head and shoulders a better singer than Augeri and is not a clone on the new material. Augeri sounded like an injured Steve Perry. Pineda actually sings some parts of the ballads a half step up from Perry. When could Augeri ever do that???

The_Noble_Cause wrote:If anything, a fresh take ala Paul Rodgers was arguably a safer bet.

lol...Paul Rodgers is a legendary frontman with 2 largely successful bands on his resume...not to mention millions of albums moved. The general music listening public has no idea who Soto is.

All of above is YOUR personal opinion. Nothing wrong with that.
Also , The general listening public has NO idea who Pineda is either. Your point?

Jeff made his name more famous during the 1st month with Journey than Arnel has the past 10 months he's been with the band.
And almost every fan who was hoping for a new energized Journey has given up on that. The fan base has remained the same, consisting of people who only like the classic sound. Nothing wrong with that either...

Gibby wrote:

Behshad wrote:

lights1961 wrote:i think JSS got let go because instead of giving 1000% to journey after he was hired he did a farewell tour with tailsman... too me that showed lack of judgement on JSS part... I mean if i were to be hired by a company---that was your DREAM JOB...why would you then go and hire yourself out for another company three months into your dream job??? That part to me NEVER MADE ANY SENSE. Iam sure Jon and Neal felt the samy way... just my 2 cents.



Rick

With all due respect, That had NOTHING to do with it.Jeff did gave it all when it mattered. The fact that he did cancel the Talisman shows in Summer of 2006 showed Neal & Co that Journey was Jeff's #1 project. He just up and left a band of 17 years , but also he had to do the one last tour for the fans who have followed Talisman for almost 2 decades....
Neal KNEW that Jeff can multitask and he also knoew that Jeff is one artist that would not sit around and do NOTHING for months like the rest of them did. He also knew that the postponed Tour of Talisman was something that needed to be done so Jeff could close that chapter in his career and move on with Journey.
and we all know that Neal himself has been involved in side project too while Journey has been takin a nap between tours and albums.

Neal also KNEW that Jeff struggled on some of the catalog and often screamed rather than sang during some of the more demanding parts. Choosing business over friendship is not easy but it was the right choice. The success they are enjoying today would have NEVER happened with JSS.

Hmmm...kind of like Arnel.