MR

Ouch!


WAL-MART

It's about the fucking price. Enough already.
You get three discs for $11.88? That's quite the value proposition. Old Journey, new Journey and video Journey. And do most people care? NO! What, they sold 100,000 in a country of 300 million?

I'm happy for Neal Schon, that somebody cares. But they don't really give a shit about your new music, they just want the classics. Maybe, if you're lucky, they'll spin the new disc... But not enough people own this new product to drive your concert business, where the real profits are.

As for the vaunted promotional value of Wal-Mart deals... HORSESHIT! Most people are not paying attention. This is not 1965, when we were limited to three networks and young people were thrilled to get junk mail, ANY MAIL!

Albums at Wal-Mart are impulse buys. You're there, you've heard of the act, THEY'RE CHEAP!

But these albums are like trees falling in a forest... THEY MAKE NO SOUND! Other than for the people who buy them, listen to them once and then go back to their greatest hits on their iPods... (Come on, do you really believe the new Journey material IS ANY GOOD??)

Maui Tom wrote:Ouch!


WAL-MART

It's about the fucking price. Enough already.
You get three discs for $11.88? That's quite the value proposition. Old Journey, new Journey and video Journey. And do most people care? NO! What, they sold 100,000 in a country of 300 million?

I'm happy for Neal Schon, that somebody cares. But they don't really give a shit about your new music, they just want the classics. Maybe, if you're lucky, they'll spin the new disc... But not enough people own this new product to drive your concert business, where the real profits are.

As for the vaunted promotional value of Wal-Mart deals... HORSESHIT! Most people are not paying attention. This is not 1965, when we were limited to three networks and young people were thrilled to get junk mail, ANY MAIL!

Albums at Wal-Mart are impulse buys. You're there, you've heard of the act, THEY'RE CHEAP!

But these albums are like trees falling in a forest... THEY MAKE NO SOUND! Other than for the people who buy them, listen to them once and then go back to their greatest hits on their iPods... (Come on, do you really believe the new Journey material IS ANY GOOD??)

You're wrong. I bought them for the new material. Selling a record/CD/DVD no matter where it's sold is STILL SELLING IT. The concert is a good one, the re-recordings of the classics are fine, but the new music is awesome and why Journey is number 5 on the Billboard charts.

Maui Tom wrote:Ouch!


WAL-MART

It's about the fucking price. Enough already.
You get three discs for $11.88? That's quite the value proposition. Old Journey, new Journey and video Journey. And do most people care? NO! What, they sold 100,000 in a country of 300 million?

I'm happy for Neal Schon, that somebody cares. But they don't really give a shit about your new music, they just want the classics. Maybe, if you're lucky, they'll spin the new disc... But not enough people own this new product to drive your concert business, where the real profits are.

As for the vaunted promotional value of Wal-Mart deals... HORSESHIT! Most people are not paying attention. This is not 1965, when we were limited to three networks and young people were thrilled to get junk mail, ANY MAIL!

Albums at Wal-Mart are impulse buys. You're there, you've heard of the act, THEY'RE CHEAP!

But these albums are like trees falling in a forest... THEY MAKE NO SOUND! Other than for the people who buy them, listen to them once and then go back to their greatest hits on their iPods... (Come on, do you really believe the new Journey material IS ANY GOOD??)

Bob missed the boat on this one. If it's about the price, the remastered GH is also available at WM for about $9.

Jeremey wrote:

Maui Tom wrote:Ouch!


WAL-MART

It's about the fucking price. Enough already.
You get three discs for $11.88? That's quite the value proposition. Old Journey, new Journey and video Journey. And do most people care? NO! What, they sold 100,000 in a country of 300 million?

I'm happy for Neal Schon, that somebody cares. But they don't really give a shit about your new music, they just want the classics. Maybe, if you're lucky, they'll spin the new disc... But not enough people own this new product to drive your concert business, where the real profits are.

As for the vaunted promotional value of Wal-Mart deals... HORSESHIT! Most people are not paying attention. This is not 1965, when we were limited to three networks and young people were thrilled to get junk mail, ANY MAIL!

Albums at Wal-Mart are impulse buys. You're there, you've heard of the act, THEY'RE CHEAP!

But these albums are like trees falling in a forest... THEY MAKE NO SOUND! Other than for the people who buy them, listen to them once and then go back to their greatest hits on their iPods... (Come on, do you really believe the new Journey material IS ANY GOOD??)

Bob missed the boat on this one. If it's about the price, the remastered GH is also available at WM for about $9.

Well said Jeremey. I usually enjoy Bob for his insights but this one is a little bit off the mark, even to these biased eyes. 100,000 may not be much in the grand scheme of record sales' past, but this is 2008 and it's an admirable number for them.

What exactly was the point of him writing this?

Mr. Lefsetz sounds like a MR hit & run poster in that article (is it his blog?). Actually, the new music is good & aren't most things impulse buys? Of course, people will still listen to the Classics (Perry era for me), but some of the new songs sound like they will be, too.

What a ska-doosh

Maui Tom wrote:Ouch!


WAL-MART

It's about the fucking price. Enough already.
You get three discs for $11.88? That's quite the value proposition. Old Journey, new Journey and video Journey. And do most people care? NO! What, they sold 100,000 in a country of 300 million?

I'm happy for Neal Schon, that somebody cares. But they don't really give a shit about your new music, they just want the classics. Maybe, if you're lucky, they'll spin the new disc... But not enough people own this new product to drive your concert business, where the real profits are.

As for the vaunted promotional value of Wal-Mart deals... HORSESHIT! Most people are not paying attention. This is not 1965, when we were limited to three networks and young people were thrilled to get junk mail, ANY MAIL!

Albums at Wal-Mart are impulse buys. You're there, you've heard of the act, THEY'RE CHEAP!

But these albums are like trees falling in a forest... THEY MAKE NO SOUND! Other than for the people who buy them, listen to them once and then go back to their greatest hits on their iPods... (Come on, do you really believe the new Journey material IS ANY GOOD??)

Who exactly is Bob Lefsetz and why should I give a fuck?

Sounds like he's just writing something bitter, just to write something bitter.

Douchiness.

Lefsetz is a pretty prominent music blogger. Read by tons of industry insiders and such. He generally has very good insight (usually delivered with a caustic tongue like this one). This rip on Journey aside, I highly recommend reading him to anyone interested in the music industry.

brandonpfn wrote:ska-doosh

Never seen this one before, I like it loads!
Good word brandonpfn.

Maui Tom wrote:Ouch!

But these albums are like trees falling in a forest... THEY MAKE NO SOUND! Other than for the people who buy them, listen to them once and then go back to their greatest hits on their iPods... (Come on, do you really believe the new Journey material IS ANY GOOD??)

Its obvious by his last sentence he hasn't heard it. He saw that it charted, looked it up and saw what you got for 11.88 and wrote a rant on what he "thinks" it is.

http://www.lefsetz.com/wordpress/index.php

It's all about the new album for me and for just about everyone else. I don't think this Einstein even realizes they have a new singer. Sounds like he's assuming that Perry is still in the band? Way to go, douchebasket.

Here's what Kid Rock thinks of Mr. Leftnutz.

Im sure its difficult to sit on the bench while us folks play in the big game. Your a failed musician with a big mouth.

You try to make a name for yourself with half ass opinions based on everyone who is actually trying to do something in music. Yet you do NOTHING but talk. See you on the streets you punk ass mother fucker!!!

Kid Rock

No, Bob is very aware that SP is not in the band anymore. Trust me, as far as stupid inane music critics go... well, Bob isn't one of them. Read some of his blog archive. He's a straight shooter and plays no favorites (i.e. he loves early Springsteen but tears his new stuff apart). He's one of the few honest voices out there.

I'd have a lot more respect for him and his "honest" opinion if he were to actually review the album...

He doesn't do reviews. He's an industry "observer" more or less - he might comment on a work's quality, but his purpose is not to review. He's really more interested in the machinations of the industry and that's even what this criticism is aimed at more so than anything else. I shouldn't have called him a "critic," because he's not a critic in that sense of the word.

In this rant about Wal-Mart, he explains why its a "mistake" to sell through Walmart. Saying no one wants to go to Walmart to get a cd. So when Journey blew 100,000+ there in the first week, his argument fails. No wonder he had to write some crap in the Journey rant. Remember folks, he's got to write "something", doesn't mean he's always right. In this case, looks like he's wrong twice.

Funny, he decries the state of music but criticizes releasing music on anything but digital download. Numbnutz.

-----------------------

AC/DC To Wal-Mart by Bob Lefsetz

THIS is a mistake.

Have you heard the new Eagles album? I’m guessing no. Even though 3 million copies were moved by Wal-Mart, it was an impulse item for baby boomers. Sure, some hard core fans purchased the disc too, but if you don’t care about the Eagles, it’s like the album didn’t even come out, like it doesn’t even exist. There was some airplay for the initial J.D. Souther-penned song "How Long", but who listens to music radio anymore anyway? The Eagles/Wal-Mart deal was about the money. A way for the band to get a ton up front, guaranteed, and the retailer to drive customers into its stores to hopefully buy a washing machine or another big ticket item.

But I ask you, is a kid going to go to Wal-Mart to buy the new AC/DC album?

iTunes is not a perfect solution. But we live in a digital age. The album is dead. To keep one’s head in the sand, to stand on ceremony, is just fucking stupid. Who’s managing this band anyway?

The key is to make the music easier to access, easier to buy… So why do you have to drive to fucking Wal-Mart to buy the whole fucking album when all you want is the damn thing on your iPod?

The closest Wal-Mart to me is almost twenty miles away! Assuming there’s no traffic, that’s an eight dollar fuel surcharge on the disc. But at least I’ve got wheels… Kids, home from school, music addicts, but without their driver’s licenses, are inured to getting their music online. And if you won’t sell it track by track, they’ll steal it that way. If you don’t know this, you’re still living in the twentieth century, still waiting for Napster to come along and blow your mind.

He has a point that the new CD won't help concert business where the real money is to be made. However, had Journey not did the Wal-Mart deal, the CD would have been DOA like the last 3. Some here seem to be a little too sensitive about any opinion that doesn't say the new album isn't the second coming of "Escape". Take his comments for what they are, an opinion. There is some validity in what he's saying whether he's right or wrong in the end. I bought the package and it is quite the value.

Now if he rags on Triumph, well...........

Basically Bob's whole outlook the last couple years is that the music industry has dropped the ball numerous times in failing to shift their business models to the digital age. He's not ripping Journey for the sake of ripping Journey like a Rolling Stone writer would do... he just honestly feels that the album is dead in the water. Gone are the days of 13 year old Randy Bachmans saving up nickels from their first job to go down to the record store on the corner to buy the latest Brit mersey beat. He's viewing this whole Wal-Mart thing as "too little too late" in the industry's futile effort to avoid a 100% embrace of the digital age. And to be honest, I think he's right. My prediction for Revelation is that sales will pretty much completely stagnate after the strong initial rush and that's becuase Bob is right: The album and the CD are pretty much dead as far as viable big money makers.

I think if you had been reading Lefsetz for at least a few months before this, you would realize he's not really attacking Journey as much as he's attacking the industry. He's not really attacking Journey at all.

Moon Beam wrote:

brandonpfn wrote:ska-doosh

Never seen this one before, I like it loads!
Good word brandonpfn.

That one got me when I first heard it here:

brandonpfn wrote:

Moon Beam wrote:

brandonpfn wrote:ska-doosh

Never seen this one before, I like it loads!
Good word brandonpfn.

That one got me when I first heard it here:

So would it be appropriate to tell a ska-doosh to ska-doodle?

Gunbot wrote:So would it be appropriate to tell a ska-doosh to ska-doodle?

Actually, I think Kid Rock's assessment, nails it.

As for me also, I bought this for the new material. The DVD is just ok, and not as good as Vegas, as someone else has said here. The rerecordings I will probably give away and have not listened to them, other than what I was forced to when listening to the rebroadcast of Rockline. I was going to throw them away, but a friend who sings in a metal tribute suggested he might like them.

John

Last time I checked, Journey didn't need much help selling concert tickets. The show I'm going to that went on sale last Sunday only has lawn seats available. So screw him.

Ehwmatt wrote:Basically Bob's whole outlook the last couple years is that the music industry has dropped the ball numerous times in failing to shift their business models to the digital age. He's not ripping Journey for the sake of ripping Journey like a Rolling Stone writer would do... he just honestly feels that the album is dead in the water. Gone are the days of 13 year old Randy Bachmans saving up nickels from their first job to go down to the record store on the corner to buy the latest Brit mersey beat. He's viewing this whole Wal-Mart thing as "too little too late" in the industry's futile effort to avoid a 100% embrace of the digital age. And to be honest, I think he's right. My prediction for Revelation is that sales will pretty much completely stagnate after the strong initial rush and that's becuase Bob is right: The album and the CD are pretty much dead as far as viable big money makers.

I think if you had been reading Lefsetz for at least a few months before this, you would realize he's not really attacking Journey as much as he's attacking the industry. He's not really attacking Journey at all.

Agreed.

His question is more rhetorical than anything, imo.

I found THIS while drilling down in his blogs.

Dude seems to have a good handle on things.
It's a good time to be managed by Irving.

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great, so lets not offer cd's and offer low bitrate Mp3's only.

thats the way to ruin the music even more than modern mastering has.

sure, lets make music sound worse than it already does cause people want digital.

sorry, but I doubt offering mp3's too or even high bitrate mp3's would sell enough to make a difference. journey isnt a TODAYS band. most kids today wont notice cause its not the kind of music they like or the music industry wants them to like.


BTW: I bought the cd for the new music. not the live dvd and def not the remakes. although the live dvd was pretty great to get and does sound excellent. great performance if you ask me.

The thing about Bob is that he is not a mainstream fan, but a mainstream critic. He really believes that once a group is beyond indie they are bad. Critics like him are great way to find new music and then turn on the artists like a rabies infected dog when they have any success. Even when bands don’t change their formula, like Primus, they were a weird band that lucked out and crossed over and then were tagged as a sell-out. At least Journey earned that criticism when they brought in Perry and changed what they were doing, and millions of fans love that they did.

The Wal-Mart thing he is right in some ways and not in others. Wal-mart does make the records available for download. God help us if everybody goes to iTunes as once one company has control the general public will suffer and music will go underground and revolt.

Right now downloads are climbing and CD sales are falling, however CD sales are still greater than downloads and you can’t ignore that base of music buyers. Not every one lives in LA and NY far from Wal-Mart and kids do buy their music at Wal-Mart as they buy video games and DVDs there. It is the largest reseller of music in the US. That is his bias against big corporations coming out. Wal-Mart is flawed, but most people shop there and the product is available for download and online orders.

I have tons of CDs and still buy my music on disc. Until the flaws in the digital world are fixed I won’t convert. The only things I buy digitally are exclusive items. Digital rights management tells me what I can do with the music I buy. It will cause people to buy the same product over and over again when they have passed the allowable transfers or their hard-drive crashes, and even if they back it up they are using allowable transfers and will have to purchase the music again if they blow two or three hard drives or buy new computers. This is the record companies fault not iTunes. Steve Jobs wants to end DRM. That leads me to the inferior product. These downloads suck and the majority of people don’t care.

The music industry is in dire straits right now. Kids have never bought music. They illegally download everything and once you get something for free you never will get used to paying for it, like baggage fees on an airlines. The concert industry is counting on fewer and fewer acts to fill venues and again because kids don’t pay for music they are not invested in the product and don’t go to shows.


On a side note one of Azoff’s new partners is Paul Geary, Extreme’s original drummer. This is why he is not on the reunion tour. He has bigger fish to fry.

AlienC wrote: I found THIS while drilling down in his blogs.

Dude seems to have a good handle on things.
It's a good time to be managed by Irving.

[/url]

VERY interesting.

I have no idea what a Lefsetz is, so I thought all of the first post was Tom's writing...spent a few minutes wondering WTF!?! and then a few more wondering what he was drinking...