MR

I know some of you people & Perry lovers are going to flame me, but I don't care. I've been listening to the new album over and over during the last weeks and, after repeatedly listenings, I can say that I prefer current Arnel rather than "Trial By Fire" Steve Perry (keep in mind that I'm NOT comparing current JRNY with the glorious band days, when Perry was at his peak). From my point of view, Arnel adds a touch of freshness that the band didn't have since the Frontiers era. I think that the band sounds alive, fresh and with energy for the first time in 20+ years, like "if they had rock vitamins" . IMO, Perry vocals on the TBF album were too dark, compressed and overechoed and most of the songs were forgettable and not that good as on this latter album, which is, FOR ME, the best JRNY album since Frontiers.

Does anyone agree with this point?

On a side note, I'd also like to thank all the people here that sent me the song "Let it take you back". I really like this song, too. The chorus is a bit typical, but the song has a nice vibe and it's one of my faves on the album.

That's your preference and you're entitled to it. I don't share it.

I'd take Perry's vocals in any condition and on any day of the week over Arnel's. I don't think Arnel is a bad singer, but his voice doesn't generate any response in the listening part of my brain.

St.George wrote:I know some of you people & Perry lovers are going to flame me, but I don't care. I've been listening to the new album over and over during the last weeks and, after repeatedly listenings, I can say that I prefer current Arnel rather than "Trial By Fire" Steve Perry (keep in mind that I'm NOT comparing current JRNY with the glorious band days, when Perry was at his peak). From my point of view, Arnel adds a touch of freshness that the band didn't have since the Frontiers era. I think that the band sounds alive, fresh and with energy for the first time in 20+ years, like "if they had rock vitamins" . IMO, Perry vocals on the TBF album were too dark, compressed and overechoed and most of the songs were forgettable and not that good as on this latter album, which is, FOR ME, the best JRNY album since Frontiers.

Does anyone agree with this point?

On a side note, I'd also like to thank all the people here that sent me the song "Let it take you back". I really like this song, too. The chorus is a bit typical, but the song has a nice vibe and it's one of my faves on the album.

Dont get me wrong because I can't get enough of listening to Steve Perry's voice, absolutely love his voice. I have to agree with you, Arnel is special, very special. After seeing them play in Manchester the other night I have to say that I can't honestly remember seeing a better vocal performance at a gig, unfortunately being English I didn't get any chance to see Steve Perry in his prime. They were my favourite band for years but interestingly when TBF came out I listened to it once and my Journey with Journey ended, I know I will get some backlash for this but I think it's quite a weak album although I have got used to it over the years I still only have WYLAW, Message of Love and Trial by Fire on my ipod. As for Revelation for me it is better than Arrival and a vast improvement on Generations. WDILYL is the best on the album for me although there is virtually nothing I dont like about it. Live Change for the Better certainly sounds better with JC on guitar than the "cheesy" 80's synth stabs on the recorded version, probably get some....feedback for that as well or is it just me that thinks JC is slightly stuck in 1983?? Feel free to discuss!

After the gig I have also been hammering the re-recorded versions of the classics, think they all sound great and Arnel does a good job of all of them. Who's Crying Now is stunning vocally, Stone in Love...well even my son said it sounded like SP and I have to agree.

Spike wrote:That's your preference and you're entitled to it. I don't share it.

I'd take Perry's vocals in any condition and on any day of the week over Arnel's. I don't think Arnel is a bad singer, but his voice doesn't generate any response in the listening part of my brain.

I don't share it, either. And what's up with comparing the dude that wrote or co-wrote all the songs, delivered them so flawlessly that they are indelibly stamped in everybody's memory, to any replacement singer Journey digs up? Arnel has a good voice and is so far doing what they hired him to do. That's it. As far as making some connection with me on songs or successes he had no part of.....I ain't feelin' it. My ears aren't hearing anything outstanding in the new releases in the vocal dept., either. Good, yes, great, no. Plus Arnel didn't write a damn thing. Next.

"Fresh"?" What's fresh about digging up 30 year old songs and rehashing/rereleasing them with your next flavor of the year singer? He might be younger, he might still have a high tenor, but he ain't Steve Perry. If Perry took the stage today with Journey using a tuned down ALTO range , belting out Message of Love or WYLAW, you'd see who'd prefer "fresh" over Perry.

If Journey looks like they took "rock vitamins" it's because Arnel is jumping around happy he's not in a bar band and Schon &, Cain were able to pimp out the greatest hits for a Walmart deal. Life is good! ... at least while Arnel still has a voice to tour.

comparing Arnel to Steve Perry is like comparing the Moon to the Sun.... they both light up the sky, but at different times...

slucero wrote:comparing Arnel to Steve Perry is like comparing the Moon to the Sun.... they both light up the sky, but at different times...

More to the point, one merely reflects the other's light.
-wech

slucero wrote:comparing Arnel to Steve Perry is like comparing the Moon to the Sun.... they both light up the sky, but at different times...

Dude, thats gold i tell ya its GOLD!!

For me, until I hear a song by the "new" Journey on a radio station that I listen to in my neck of the woods. I will not buy the CD. Unless a song grabs me very strongly I don't buy the CD of any singer even if I have before. I enjoy Perry's singing. That's Journey for me.

St.George wrote:
Does anyone agree with this point?

NO!

As for the "Trial By Fire" references and the premise that Perry couldn't sing any longer at that point in time...It's simply a point that I have NEVER agreed with. I've heard MANY suggest this, over the years, and it simply doesn't work for me. There isn't a person alive who is a Journey fan, who doesn't know that it's Perry's voice they're listening to on TBF. Also, "When You Love a Woman" is as good as ANY Journey ballad in their entire catalog, IMO. It's classic Perry, and can't be mistaken as anyone else!

On another note, I thought Arnel did a reasonable job on the re-records, but he clearly isn't Perry, and they're NOWHERE near as good as the originals are. That doesn't change the fact that I think Arnel is immensely talented, and FAR more qualified to sing Journey's catalog than anyone, since Perry!


John from Boston

AGREED. You're right on St. George

Enigma869 wrote:

St.George wrote:
Does anyone agree with this point?

NO!

As for the "Trial By Fire" references and the premise that Perry couldn't sing any longer at that point in time...It's simply a point that I have NEVER agreed with. I've heard MANY suggest this, over the years, and it simply doesn't work for me. There isn't a person alive who is a Journey fan, who doesn't know that it's Perry's voice they're listening to on TBF. Also, "When You Love a Woman" is as good as ANY Journey ballad in their entire catalog, IMO. It's classic Perry, and can't be mistaken as anyone else!

On another note, I thought Arnel did a reasonable job on the re-records, but he clearly isn't Perry, and they're NOWHERE near as good as the originals are. That doesn't change the fact that I think Arnel is immensely talented, and FAR more qualified to sing Journey's catalog than anyone, since Perry!


John from Boston

Finally we agree on something! Couldn't have said it any better. It's a disservice to compare AP to SP or visa versa.

Enigma869 wrote:As for the "Trial By Fire" references and the premise that Perry couldn't sing any longer at that point in time...It's simply a point that I have NEVER agreed with.

Someone said they stripped the music from TBF and were able to almost totally isolate the vocals, and it appears that TBF is a patched up vocal performance by Perry. Translation...he was struggling vocally to sing the lines in full and had to "patch" good takes with other good takes but could never completely string together more than a line or two at a time. Whether this is true or not I don't know, but I don't think he ever thought he could tour in support of that album. History seems to corroborate that as well.

Saint John wrote:

Enigma869 wrote:As for the "Trial By Fire" references and the premise that Perry couldn't sing any longer at that point in time...It's simply a point that I have NEVER agreed with.

Someone said they stripped the music from TBF and were able to almost totally isolate the vocals, and it appears that TBF is a patched up vocal performance by Perry. Translation...he was struggling vocally to sing the lines in full and had to "patch" good takes with other good takes but could never completely string together more than a line or two at a time. Whether this is true or not I don't know, but I don't think he ever thought he could tour in support of that album. History seems to corroborate that as well.

If memory serves me correctly, it was Liquid Drummer. I could be wrong though.

G.I.Jim wrote:

Saint John wrote:

Enigma869 wrote:As for the "Trial By Fire" references and the premise that Perry couldn't sing any longer at that point in time...It's simply a point that I have NEVER agreed with.

Someone said they stripped the music from TBF and were able to almost totally isolate the vocals, and it appears that TBF is a patched up vocal performance by Perry. Translation...he was struggling vocally to sing the lines in full and had to "patch" good takes with other good takes but could never completely string together more than a line or two at a time. Whether this is true or not I don't know, but I don't think he ever thought he could tour in support of that album. History seems to corroborate that as well.

If memory serves me correctly, it was Liquid Drummer. I could be wrong though.

Yes...that's who it was. Get your ass in here LD and rehash your findings.

Does anyone agree with this point?

Yes! And I am a "Perry Lover". Its not a matter of the voices for me but as you said energy and freshness. Or maybe just a return to what I think Journey should sound like (re hashed or not). I was so jazzed to listen to TBF and the first time I played it I started skipping tracks. I still listen to it but only for a few songs
(When You Love a Woman, If He Should Break Your Heart, It's Just the Rain) and thats about it. On the other hand, Revelation hasn't been out of my CD player since June 3rd. While I do skip around, its only to hear something that I happen to like better that day. I Loved Arrival and listen to it much more that TBF. ROR is a great album but the same as with TBF, I wont listen to the entire disc when I play it. Best since Frontiers? I have to agree.

Since 78 wrote:

Does anyone agree with this point?

Yes! And I am a "Perry Lover". Its not a matter of the voices for me but as you said energy and freshness. Or maybe just a return to what I think Journey should sound like (re hashed or not). I was so jazzed to listen to TBF and the first time I played it I started skipping tracks. I still listen to it but only for a few songs
(When You Love a Woman, If He Should Break Your Heart, It's Just the Rain) and thats about it. On the other hand, Revelation hasn't been out of my CD player since June 3rd. While I do skip around, its only to hear something that I happen to like better that day. I Loved Arrival and listen to it much more that TBF. ROR is a great album but the same as with TBF, I wont listen to the entire disc when I play it. Best since Frontiers? I have to agree.

I'd give Revelation a few credits for some fresh sounding stuff..but the majority of the disc sounds rehashed Arrival. I've given AP plenty of props for his performance, but honestly its the writing that falls short on this CD for me.

Onestepper wrote:

Since 78 wrote:

Does anyone agree with this point?

Yes! And I am a "Perry Lover". Its not a matter of the voices for me but as you said energy and freshness. Or maybe just a return to what I think Journey should sound like (re hashed or not). I was so jazzed to listen to TBF and the first time I played it I started skipping tracks. I still listen to it but only for a few songs
(When You Love a Woman, If He Should Break Your Heart, It's Just the Rain) and thats about it. On the other hand, Revelation hasn't been out of my CD player since June 3rd. While I do skip around, its only to hear something that I happen to like better that day. I Loved Arrival and listen to it much more that TBF. ROR is a great album but the same as with TBF, I wont listen to the entire disc when I play it. Best since Frontiers? I have to agree.

I'd give Revelation a few credits for some fresh sounding stuff..but the majority of the disc sounds rehashed Arrival. I've given AP plenty of props for his performance, but honestly its the writing that falls short on this CD for me.

To me Wildest Dreams does sound like an Arrival tune, I can hear SA singing it. Not that I don't like Arrival but this is the only song that doesn't quite fit.

perrylover52 wrote:For me, until I hear a song by the "new" Journey on a radio station that I listen to in my neck of the woods. I will not buy the CD..

That's probably the lamest reason not to buy a cd I've ever heard. jeesh....

Trial By Fire reminds me of Chicago 17. It sounds like half the songs were ghostwritten by Richard Marx. A couple of uptempo numbers but mainly dominated by ballads. Both had outstanding production work though as far as sound is concerned. Revelations could have the name Survivor instead of Journey on it because thats who it sounds like to me but I don't consider that a bad thing. If I wanted lush ballad type music Iwould have gotten the New Josh Groban CD instead.

EightyRock wrote:

Spike wrote:That's your preference and you're entitled to it. I don't share it.

I'd take Perry's vocals in any condition and on any day of the week over Arnel's. I don't think Arnel is a bad singer, but his voice doesn't generate any response in the listening part of my brain.

I don't share it, either. And what's up with comparing the dude that wrote or co-wrote all the songs, delivered them so flawlessly that they are indelibly stamped in everybody's memory, to any replacement singer Journey digs up? Arnel has a good voice and is so far doing what they hired him to do. That's it. As far as making some connection with me on songs or successes he had no part of.....I ain't feelin' it. My ears aren't hearing anything outstanding in the new releases in the vocal dept., either. Good, yes, great, no. Plus Arnel didn't write a damn thing. Next.

"Fresh"?" What's fresh about digging up 30 year old songs and rehashing/rereleasing them with your next flavor of the year singer? He might be younger, he might still have a high tenor, but he ain't Steve Perry. If Perry took the stage today with Journey using a tuned down ALTO range , belting out Message of Love or WYLAW, you'd see who'd prefer "fresh" over Perry.

If Journey looks like they took "rock vitamins" it's because Arnel is jumping around happy he's not in a bar band and Schon &, Cain were able to pimp out the greatest hits for a Walmart deal. Life is good! ... at least while Arnel still has a voice to tour.

True Dat.

jrnyjunky wrote:I too have been listening to the new CD. I do like it. I think that Arnel has a great voice. But I'm a diehard Perry fan. Nobody makes me feel like he does when he sings. There is magic in that voice. When I listen to the new CD I don't think of it as Journey, I think of it as a new band with a new CD. Journey can't be Journey without Perry. JMO.

Also true dat.

They should have changed the name from Journey. The entire thing is just a mess. At this point just live with it. It is not going to change.

Saint John wrote: Someone said they stripped the music from TBF and were able to almost totally isolate the vocals, and it appears that TBF is a patched up vocal performance by Perry. Translation...he was struggling vocally to sing the lines in full and had to "patch" good takes with other good takes but could never completely string together more than a line or two at a time. Whether this is true or not I don't know, but I don't think he ever thought he could tour in support of that album. History seems to corroborate that as well.

That theory doesn't hold water, SJ. He had just been on his OWN FTLOSM TOUR, singing live when he was pulled off the tour by Sony to reunite with Journey. Now you're trying to get somebody to believe his voice couldn't hold up long enough to record a CD? Give me a friggin' break. You need to quit trying to rip on the dude constantly and think before your fingers hit the keyboard.

I have to agree with many of the comments where people have said there should be no comparison between AP and SP. To me, Journey died when Perry left for good. What they have now is what they had with SA: two original members and one long-time member that's brought in a sound-alike to continue their career. Don't get me wrong, I think AP is a good singer. He's no SP. But who is? And this isn't Journey.

I had wondered what direction the band would take with songwriting with a guy that can't speak good English. We've seen the answer: Schon and Cain have written everything. If that's what they want to do, that's fine. It just seems those two want to run the show and everyone else does as they say: hence, get a singer that follow their lead. That's not a bad. That's a duo with accompanying musicians and singers. Why not call it Schon-Cain instead of Journey?!?

I don't see the purpose of them re-recording all their greatest hits with the new guy. It's like they're trying to undo their legacy. Sorry guys, but the majority of your legacy was with Perry.

It's a good CD, but nothing great.

Saint John wrote:
Someone said they stripped the music from TBF and were able to almost totally isolate the vocals, and it appears that TBF is a patched up vocal performance by Perry. Translation...he was struggling vocally to sing the lines in full and had to "patch" good takes with other good takes but could never completely string together more than a line or two at a time. Whether this is true or not I don't know, but I don't think he ever thought he could tour in support of that album. History seems to corroborate that as well.

That's an awful lot to deduce from a karaoke vocal eliminator...

EightyRock wrote:

Saint John wrote: Someone said they stripped the music from TBF and were able to almost totally isolate the vocals, and it appears that TBF is a patched up vocal performance by Perry. Translation...he was struggling vocally to sing the lines in full and had to "patch" good takes with other good takes but could never completely string together more than a line or two at a time. Whether this is true or not I don't know, but I don't think he ever thought he could tour in support of that album. History seems to corroborate that as well.

That theory doesn't hold water, SJ. He had just been on his OWN FTLOSM TOUR, singing live when he was pulled off the tour by Sony to reunite with Journey. Now you're trying to get somebody to believe his voice couldn't hold up long enough to record a CD? Give me a friggin' break. You need to quit trying to rip on the dude constantly and think before your fingers hit the keyboard.

Several things:

1) I clearly said "Whether or not this is true I don't know.."
2) His FTLOSM tour was beginning to have nights that included some just plain horrendous renditions of songs, and he pulled Stone In Love, Open Arms, and one or two others. ALL of which would have been expected to be heard on a JOURNEY tour.
3) *I* think TBF was a studio magic job and because it would have sounded so vastly different live without studio magic tricks you have never heard Perry perform even one song live. Had Perry been able to sing a song or two off of that album a few years down the road (when his hip healed) he would have...just to stick it to Journey. He couldn't so he didn't.

St.George wrote:I know some of you people & Perry lovers are going to flame me, but I don't care. I've been listening to the new album over and over during the last weeks and, after repeatedly listenings, I can say that I prefer current Arnel rather than "Trial By Fire" Steve Perry (keep in mind that I'm NOT comparing current JRNY with the glorious band days, when Perry was at his peak). From my point of view, Arnel adds a touch of freshness that the band didn't have since the Frontiers era. I think that the band sounds alive, fresh and with energy for the first time in 20+ years, like "if they had rock vitamins" . IMO, Perry vocals on the TBF album were too dark, compressed and overechoed and most of the songs were forgettable and not that good as on this latter album, which is, FOR ME, the best JRNY album since Frontiers.

Does anyone agree with this point?

On a side note, I'd also like to thank all the people here that sent me the song "Let it take you back". I really like this song, too. The chorus is a bit typical, but the song has a nice vibe and it's one of my faves on the album.

Not flaming you, but I would take TBF over Revelation. I love a lot of the songs on Revelation & AP is very talented, but my heart belongs to SP. I like the 'dark tones' of TBF - 'tho I don't think they are depressing at all - just deeper than the 'hey day' of Journey. So, if there's a fire ya know which CDs I'm grabbing first.

Saint John wrote:

Enigma869 wrote:As for the "Trial By Fire" references and the premise that Perry couldn't sing any longer at that point in time...It's simply a point that I have NEVER agreed with.

Someone said they stripped the music from TBF and were able to almost totally isolate the vocals, and it appears that TBF is a patched up vocal performance by Perry. Translation...he was struggling vocally to sing the lines in full and had to "patch" good takes with other good takes but could never completely string together more than a line or two at a time. Whether this is true or not I don't know, but I don't think he ever thought he could tour in support of that album. History seems to corroborate that as well.

And yet, people still flame him for not touring.

SusieP wrote:

Saint John wrote:

Enigma869 wrote:As for the "Trial By Fire" references and the premise that Perry couldn't sing any longer at that point in time...It's simply a point that I have NEVER agreed with.

Someone said they stripped the music from TBF and were able to almost totally isolate the vocals, and it appears that TBF is a patched up vocal performance by Perry. Translation...he was struggling vocally to sing the lines in full and had to "patch" good takes with other good takes but could never completely string together more than a line or two at a time. Whether this is true or not I don't know, but I don't think he ever thought he could tour in support of that album. History seems to corroborate that as well.

And yet, people still flame him for not touring.

I think it's more because he destroyed the Rolie and Chalfant fronted lineup, fired Herbie, and to most, never had any intentions of touring.