MR

Posted: **Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:37 am**

Before I start, let me clarify:

1. No, I am not a "Perry loon"
2. I am not an Augeri nut
3. Although I enjoy listening to JSS, I do not think he was the right fit.

That said; on with the objectivity.

Like many who post here, I visited Youtube many times to get a glimpse of Arnel Pineda, as the initial rumours began back in late 2007.

I viewd the concert in Chile live.

And yes, I bought "Revelation" at my local Wal-Mart last weekend.

I popped in the new material disc on the way home to give it a listen, and although I wanted to be blown away, I was not.
I thought the new music was just "ok".

Secondly, I gave a listen to the rerecorded stuff---again, "ok"...still not sure why they felt they should do the rerecords in the first place.

Still hoping to be pleasantly surprised, I made it home and put on the DVD.
Understand, I am a Journey fan for 30+ years and I truly wanted a reason to remain in the fold, but I honestly was not
wowed by the ability of Arnel Pineda.

Although he has the ability to mimick Perry's sound...in very small bits and peices...he does not carry the "money notes" very well and already appears to be struggling to perform the back catalog.

I honestly do not anticipate a second CD with him in the line-up, nor do I envision him lasting more than 3 years on tour.

Sorry boys, after all the hype "I'm not feelin' it".

Posted: **Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:49 am**

E5C4P3ING wrote:Before I start, let me clarify:

1. No, I am not a "Perry loon"
2. I am not an Augeri nut
3. Although I enjoy listening to JSS, I do not think he was the right fit.

That said; on with the objectivity.

Like many who post here, I visited Youtube many times to get a glimpse of Arnel Pineda, as the initial rumours began back in late 2007.

I viewd the concert in Chile live.

And yes, I bought "Revelation" at my local Wal-Mart last weekend.

I popped in the new material disc on the way home to give it a listen, and although I wanted to be blown away, I was not.
I thought the new music was just "ok".

Secondly, I gave a listen to the rerecorded stuff---again, "ok"...still not sure why they felt they should do the rerecords in the first place.

Still hoping to be pleasantly surprised, I made it home and put on the DVD.
Understand, I am a Journey fan for 30+ years and I truly wanted a reason to remain in the fold, but I honestly was not
wowed by the ability of Arnel Pineda.

Although he has the ability to mimick Perry's sound...in very small bits and peices...he does not carry the "money notes" very well and already appears to be struggling to perform the back catalog.

I honestly do not anticipate a second CD with him in the line-up, nor do I envision him lasting more than 3 years on tour.

Sorry boys, after all the hype "I'm not feelin' it".

Well, you are a small minority then about the new stuff. Everyone Ive talked to loved it. And Im not even talking about Journey die hards, actually people who were skeptical to pay $11....people who wanted to hate it since God Perry wasnt there.

Posted: **Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:51 am**

E5C4P3ING wrote:Before I start, let me clarify:

1. No, I am not a "Perry loon"
2. I am not an Augeri nut
3. Although I enjoy listening to JSS, I do not think he was the right fit.

That said; on with the objectivity.

Like many who post here, I visited Youtube many times to get a glimpse of Arnel Pineda, as the initial rumours began back in late 2007.

I viewd the concert in Chile live.

And yes, I bought "Revelation" at my local Wal-Mart last weekend.

I popped in the new material disc on the way home to give it a listen, and although I wanted to be blown away, I was not.
I thought the new music was just "ok".

Secondly, I gave a listen to the rerecorded stuff---again, "ok"...still not sure why they felt they should do the rerecords in the first place.

Still hoping to be pleasantly surprised, I made it home and put on the DVD.
Understand, I am a Journey fan for 30+ years and I truly wanted a reason to remain in the fold, but I honestly was not
wowed by the ability of Arnel Pineda.

Although he has the ability to mimick Perry's sound...in very small bits and peices...he does not carry the "money notes" very well and already appears to be struggling to perform the back catalog.

I honestly do not anticipate a second CD with him in the line-up, nor do I envision him lasting more than 3 years on tour.

Sorry boys, after all the hype "I'm not feelin' it".

You'll always have Trial By Fire as a fall back. :roll:

Posted: **Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:10 pm**

I've lost interest. Augeri No- Jeff Yes- Pineda is another Augeri. How this band has dived from the 80's is all about ANYTHING goes to get a buck and legacy can be shattered at this age. How desperate !

Posted: **Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:14 pm**

squirt1 wrote:I've lost interest. Augeri No- Jeff Yes- Pineda is another Augeri. How this band has dived from the 80's is all about ANYTHING goes to get a buck and legacy can be shattered at this age. How desperate !

Yeah, a gold album 20 years after a band's heyday absolutely SHATTERS their legacy. :roll:

Posted: **Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:18 pm**

fightingilliniJRNY wrote:
squirt1 wrote:I've lost interest. Augeri No- Jeff Yes- Pineda is another Augeri. How this band has dived from the 80's is all about ANYTHING goes to get a buck and legacy can be shattered at this age. How desperate !

Yeah, a gold album 20 years after a band's heyday absolutely SHATTERS their legacy.

Anybody notice where Judas Priest is on the charts (2nd week) or how about where Def Leppard were in the 4th week (I think something in the 50's)? Total sales of just over 100m.

Posted: **Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:29 pm**

squirt1 wrote: Pineda is another Augeri.

Augeri didn't have half the power Pineda has in his voice! There isn't one single high note in the Journey back catalog that Augeri's voice didn't completely fall apart on! It's simply not even close! While Pineda may not be Perry (and he isn't close to Perry, for the delusional fans who think he is), he is the most qualified singer Journey has had to sing their back catalog, since Perry retired!

John from Boston

Posted: **Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:00 pm**

E5C4P3ING wrote:Before I start, let me clarify:

1. No, I am not a "Perry loon"
2. I am not an Augeri nut
3. Although I enjoy listening to JSS, I do not think he was the right fit.

That said; on with the objectivity.

Like many who post here, I visited Youtube many times to get a glimpse of Arnel Pineda, as the initial rumours began back in late 2007.

I viewd the concert in Chile live.

And yes, I bought "Revelation" at my local Wal-Mart last weekend.

I popped in the new material disc on the way home to give it a listen, and although I wanted to be blown away, I was not.
I thought the new music was just "ok".

Secondly, I gave a listen to the rerecorded stuff---again, "ok"...still not sure why they felt they should do the rerecords in the first place.

Still hoping to be pleasantly surprised, I made it home and put on the DVD.
Understand, I am a Journey fan for 30+ years and I truly wanted a reason to remain in the fold, but I honestly was not
wowed by the ability of Arnel Pineda.

Although he has the ability to mimick Perry's sound...in very small bits and peices...he does not carry the "money notes" very well and already appears to be struggling to perform the back catalog.

I honestly do not anticipate a second CD with him in the line-up, nor do I envision him lasting more than 3 years on tour.

Sorry boys, after all the hype "I'm not feelin' it".

So you played each disc ONCE?

Spare us...

Posted: **Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:09 pm**

Enigma869 wrote:
squirt1 wrote: Pineda is another Augeri.

Augeri didn't have half the power Pineda has in his voice! There isn't one single high note in the Journey back catalog that Augeri's voice didn't completely fall apart on! It's simply not even close! While Pineda may not be Perry (and he isn't close to Perry, for the delusional fans who think he is), he is the most qualified singer Journey has had to sing their back catalog, since Perry retired!

John from Boston

I don't always agree with you John, but this is 100% Right. BTW I'm a big Augeri Fan.

Posted: **Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:17 pm**

Music is always subjective. You'd hear people say AP does not have soul, others would also tell you he has. Some people would say he is better than SP (read journeymusic.com), while probably more will tell you SP is better.

As for me, I love the new songs in Revelation (though at the bottom would be WITTW, Journey (Rev)). Listening to them makes me happy. Not even bad reviews from other people will take that happiness away from me. But I totally respect the opinion, inclination and discernment of other people. So even though the review of the original poster is not the same as what my reception is to the new album, I still appreciate the time he/she took to write the review and I also appreciate the honesty.

Posted: **Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:19 pm**

E5C4P3ING wrote:Secondly, I gave a listen to the rerecorded stuff---again, "ok"...still not sure why they felt they should do the rerecords in the first place.

My understanding is that it was for financial, rather than creative, reasons.

1. Walmart wanted it included in the deal.
2. They now have studio recordings of those songs to use for promos and perhaps licensing arrangement (they could do what they want with those songs without having Perry sign-off on it?).
3. It added "value" to the Revelation package for some customers.
4. The second audio cd allows Revelation to get to gold with only "half" the regular sales.

Posted: **Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:29 pm**

E5C4P3ING wrote:Before I start, let me clarify:

1. No, I am not a "Perry loon"
2. I am not an Augeri nut
3. Although I enjoy listening to JSS, I do not think he was the right fit.

That said; on with the objectivity.

Like many who post here, I visited Youtube many times to get a glimpse of Arnel Pineda, as the initial rumours began back in late 2007.

I viewd the concert in Chile live.

And yes, I bought "Revelation" at my local Wal-Mart last weekend.

I popped in the new material disc on the way home to give it a listen, and although I wanted to be blown away, I was not.
I thought the new music was just "ok".

Secondly, I gave a listen to the rerecorded stuff---again, "ok"...still not sure why they felt they should do the rerecords in the first place.

Still hoping to be pleasantly surprised, I made it home and put on the DVD.
Understand, I am a Journey fan for 30+ years and I truly wanted a reason to remain in the fold, but I honestly was not
wowed by the ability of Arnel Pineda.

Although he has the ability to mimick Perry's sound...in very small bits and peices...he does not carry the "money notes" very well and already appears to be struggling to perform the back catalog.

I honestly do not anticipate a second CD with him in the line-up, nor do I envision him lasting more than 3 years on tour.

Sorry boys, after all the hype "I'm not feelin' it".

Seems to me you spent more time on this thread than actually really listening / viewing it .

You don't like ? Fine....But this does not come across as "objective".

Posted: **Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:46 pm**

Seems to me you spent more time on this thread than actually really listening / viewing it .

You don't like ? Fine....But this does not come across as "objective".

Why isn't it objective? A poster isn't into it. So what? That's the person's opinion and completely objective.

Hell I have best friends of mine that hated Triumph's peformance at Sweden Rock. They are still my friends, and I disagree with them as I liked the show. Their opinions were their own though and I am not going to say they were wrong. Just their opinions.

Posted: **Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:49 pm**

I can totally appreciate the feelings expressed.

My copy of "Revelation" is coming (soon, with any luck) in the mail and I think it will take me a few times to actually be able to get "into" it. Most CDs are like that. Very few CDs grab me like, "WOW" on the very first listen. I'm not even going to bother listening to the retreads. For my money, Arnel should be "judged", if we must judge him, on the new material. To judge anybody on the legacy of another singer is just wrong.

The best way to honestly judge a singer, I've discovered, is listen to him outside of Journey. I did that with SA, listened to Tall Stories and Tyketto BEFORE I listened to him in Journey. Did the same with Arnel, took a lot of internet searching on websites I could not read(!) to find his early stuff, but I did.

And how can you not like Arnel Pineda - the man can sing!!! The question, for me, is whether his voice can overshadow the negative vibes that Journey has for me since they dismissed their last singer. Maybe, like JSS said, it really can be all about the music. We'll see.

So...I'll be waiting...oh wait, wrong singer! :wink:

Posted: **Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:51 pm**

I like Arnel Pineda. He does not sound like Steve Perry at all though.

Posted: **Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:56 pm**

mistiejourney wrote:I can totally appreciate the feelings expressed.

My copy of "Revelation" is coming (soon, with any luck) in the mail and I think it will take me a few times to actually be able to get "into" it. Most CDs are like that. Very few CDs grab me like, "WOW" on the very first listen. I'm not even going to bother listening to the retreads. For my money, Arnel should be "judged", if we must judge him, on the new material. To judge anybody on the legacy of another singer is just wrong.

The best way to honestly judge a singer, I've discovered, is listen to him outside of Journey. I did that with SA, listened to Tall Stories and Tyketto BEFORE I listened to him in Journey. Did the same with Arnel, took a lot of internet searching on websites I could not read(!) to find his early stuff, but I did.

And how can you not like Arnel Pineda - the man can sing!!! The question, for me, is whether his voice can overshadow the negative vibes that Journey has for me since they dismissed their last singer. Maybe, like JSS said, it really can be all about the music. We'll see.

So...I'll be waiting...oh wait, wrong singer!

At least listen to OTY. It's the first track on the redos. Then you can set fire to it if you want to. :lol:

Posted: **Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:59 pm**

Rick wrote:
mistiejourney wrote:I can totally appreciate the feelings expressed.

My copy of "Revelation" is coming (soon, with any luck) in the mail and I think it will take me a few times to actually be able to get "into" it. Most CDs are like that. Very few CDs grab me like, "WOW" on the very first listen. I'm not even going to bother listening to the retreads. For my money, Arnel should be "judged", if we must judge him, on the new material. To judge anybody on the legacy of another singer is just wrong.

The best way to honestly judge a singer, I've discovered, is listen to him outside of Journey. I did that with SA, listened to Tall Stories and Tyketto BEFORE I listened to him in Journey. Did the same with Arnel, took a lot of internet searching on websites I could not read(!) to find his early stuff, but I did.

And how can you not like Arnel Pineda - the man can sing!!! The question, for me, is whether his voice can overshadow the negative vibes that Journey has for me since they dismissed their last singer. Maybe, like JSS said, it really can be all about the music. We'll see.

So...I'll be waiting...oh wait, wrong singer!

At least listen to OTY. It's the first track on the redos. Then you can set fire to it if you want to.

Okay, I think I can try OTY! I was kinda wondering about "Open Arms", too. I hate the original of that. (Sacrilege!!!!!! :shock:

)

Posted: **Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:02 pm**

Calbear94 wrote:
E5C4P3ING wrote:Secondly, I gave a listen to the rerecorded stuff---again, "ok"...still not sure why they felt they should do the rerecords in the first place.

My understanding is that it was for financial, rather than creative, reasons.

1. Walmart wanted it included in the deal.
2. They now have studio recordings of those songs to use for promos and perhaps licensing arrangement (they could do what they want with those songs without having Perry sign-off on it?).
3. It added "value" to the Revelation package for some customers.
4. The second audio cd allows Revelation to get to gold with only "half" the regular sales.

Oh I'm sure that figured into their thinking, what a dumb ass statement. Do you think they were saying,hey!!! how can we get a Gold album? Oh Oh, I know......... we've never had a Gold Album before so lets Re-Record the old Platinum songs to get one.

Posted: **Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:11 pm**

mistiejourney wrote:
Rick wrote:
mistiejourney wrote:I can totally appreciate the feelings expressed.

My copy of "Revelation" is coming (soon, with any luck) in the mail and I think it will take me a few times to actually be able to get "into" it. Most CDs are like that. Very few CDs grab me like, "WOW" on the very first listen. I'm not even going to bother listening to the retreads. For my money, Arnel should be "judged", if we must judge him, on the new material. To judge anybody on the legacy of another singer is just wrong.

The best way to honestly judge a singer, I've discovered, is listen to him outside of Journey. I did that with SA, listened to Tall Stories and Tyketto BEFORE I listened to him in Journey. Did the same with Arnel, took a lot of internet searching on websites I could not read(!) to find his early stuff, but I did.

And how can you not like Arnel Pineda - the man can sing!!! The question, for me, is whether his voice can overshadow the negative vibes that Journey has for me since they dismissed their last singer. Maybe, like JSS said, it really can be all about the music. We'll see.

So...I'll be waiting...oh wait, wrong singer!

At least listen to OTY. It's the first track on the redos. Then you can set fire to it if you want to.

Okay, I think I can try OTY! I was kinda wondering about "Open Arms", too. I hate the original of that. (Sacrilege!!!!!! )

I hate any incarnation of it. Used to like it, but have long since been completely burned out on it. (insert barf emoticon here) Open Arms and Don't Stop Believin' are ruined by overplay.

Posted: **Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:36 pm**

Allied Forces wrote:
Seems to me you spent more time on this thread than actually really listening / viewing it .

You don't like ? Fine....But this does not come across as "objective".

Why isn't it objective? A poster isn't into it. So what? That's the person's opinion and completely objective.

Hell I have best friends of mine that hated Triumph's peformance at Sweden Rock. They are still my friends, and I disagree with them as I liked the show. Their opinions were their own though and I am not going to say they were wrong. Just their opinions.

just didn't sound too "objective"

as I said....someone doesn't like it, then someone doesn't like it....Makes no difference to me.

Triumph rocks and those that do not agree are not "objective" individuals .....

:lol:

Posted: **Tue Jul 01, 2008 5:01 pm**

E5C4P3ING wrote:
.he does not carry the "money notes" very well and already appears to be struggling to perform the back catalog.

OK that's where I think you are completely off!! :roll:

Posted: **Tue Jul 01, 2008 5:25 pm**

The Fly wrote:
E5C4P3ING wrote:
.he does not carry the "money notes" very well and already appears to be struggling to perform the back catalog.

OK that's where I think you are completely off!!

Off? The original poster is half way down the yellow brick road dancing with his/her imaginary friends!

Posted: **Tue Jul 01, 2008 5:27 pm**

finalfight wrote:
The Fly wrote:
E5C4P3ING wrote:
.he does not carry the "money notes" very well and already appears to be struggling to perform the back catalog.

OK that's where I think you are completely off!!

Off? The original poster is half way down the yellow brick road dancing with his/her imaginary friends!

Posted: **Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:35 pm**

Heads up.

Subjective is like vs. dislike.

Objective is more about album/ticket sales, measured vocal range and power, technical musicianship on drums, guitar, keys, bass, etc.

have a nice day.
-wech

Posted: **Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:52 pm**

Journey as we knew it, died once Perry left. died, thats right! dead - fact. Your fooling yourselves thinking otherwise. I do enjoy the current CD, but it's nothing we haven't heard before. while Revelations is a good CD, and better or worse than Arrival? it' doesn't matter, neither of the two album hold a candle to anything! previously recorded with Steve Perry. We all have a favourites, but somewhere the line is drawn, and album sales, masses, quality, recognition speaks for itself.

Posted: **Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:05 pm**

I've played the discs many times. I really, really wanted to love it. I don't. Like the OP, I'm just not feeling it.

I'm glad so many of you seem to be enjoying it, and I'm pleased for Journey that they have made so many sales. This is not the Journey I fell in love with, all those years ago.

Posted: **Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:22 pm**

E5C4P3ING wrote:.he does not carry the "money notes" very well

I think Arnel is a telented singer and a likeable performer...but this criticism is definitely true. You can hear Arnel falling short at - say - the end of Turn Down The World Tonight. Where Perry seemed to effortlessly take a song to the next level just when it counted - and just when you thought that the song had peaked already - Arnel doesn't have quite enough in the tank to surprise you in the same way. In any other band you probably wouldn't even notice this shortcoming but the extraordinarily moving and powerful - and slightly ridiculous - operatic cresendo is a key element of what made Journey special.

Posted: **Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:59 pm**

E5C4P3ING wrote:

I viewd the concert in Chile live.
Arnel is now completely different from the DVD, perhaps the band should have waited until he had more confidence but if you go and see them live you will see what I mean.

And yes, I bought "Revelation" at my local Wal-Mart last weekend.

I popped in the new material disc on the way home to give it a listen, and although I wanted to be blown away, I was not.
I thought the new music was just "ok".
Ok, you are entitled to your opinion. Mine is that the new material is very good indeed, WDILYL is a cracking tune.

Secondly, I gave a listen to the rerecorded stuff---again, "ok"...still not sure why they felt they should do the rerecords in the first place.
Reasons have already been explained here in other reply's, but also WITS has been given a big kick up the arse from the original, ditto SIL. Some of the other versions sound pretty fresh with the new production on them.

Still hoping to be pleasantly surprised, I made it home and put on the DVD.
Understand, I am a Journey fan for 30+ years and I truly wanted a reason to remain in the fold, but I honestly was not
wowed by the ability of Arnel Pineda.
Again, trust me having seen them twice in the UK he is the real deal.

Although he has the ability to mimick Perry's sound...in very small bits and peices...he does not carry the "money notes" very well and already appears to be struggling to perform the back catalog.
?? Hate to say this again but get along to a gig, if you think Arnel cannot perform the back catalog. His vocals at both of the gigs I went to were stunning, absolutely stunning.

I honestly do not anticipate a second CD with him in the line-up, nor do I envision him lasting more than 3 years on tour.
How can you tell? How does any of us know? Live for the moment and enjoy the ride, even JC is smiling on stage now Whether it lasts 1 year or 5 who cares, it's great at the moment and I am envious that they are now on tour in the US and not the UK, I would really like to see them again soon.

Sorry boys, after all the hype "I'm not feelin' it".

Posted: **Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:01 pm**

Sorrymessed up the quote thing, new to the site :oops:

but my comments are in there!!

Posted: **Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:00 pm**

Enigma869 wrote: While Pineda may not be Perry (and he isn't close to Perry, for the delusional fans who think he is), he is the most qualified singer Journey has had to sing their back catalog, since Perry retired!

He's as close as you can get, John! And no, he's NOT Steve Perry, he's Arnel PINEDA! I'd love to hear Steve Perry reach for those notes today, by the way... :wink:

MR

Objective Review of current Journey lineup

Objective Review of current Journey lineup

Re: Objective Review of current Journey lineup

Re: Objective Review of current Journey lineup

Re: Objective Review of current Journey lineup

Re: Objective Review of current Journey lineup

Re: Objective Review of current Journey lineup

Re: Objective Review of current Journey lineup

Re: Objective Review of current Journey lineup

Re: Objective Review of current Journey lineup

Re: Objective Review of current Journey lineup

Re: Objective Review of current Journey lineup

Re: Objective Review of current Journey lineup