MR

Sorry, but I’m really getting fed up!

First off, this thread probably should have been part of a number of threads elsewhere in this forum but I decided to start a new thread because the other ones are getting uncomfortably too long already. This is not aimed at trashing anybody. Heck I don’t even remember who said what in the other threads. This is just a quick reality check—at least for people who are objective, unbiased, and open-minded in this forum! If you are not, then this is not for you! Apologies to those who, one way or another, have expressed similar ideas presented here.

REVELATION AND JOURNEY 2008 ARE HAVING GREAT SUCCESS BECAUSE OF A COMBINATION OF GOOD, IF NOT GREAT, FACTORS!

Some people try to speculate on the reasons for the success of Journey’s Revelation album, and the Journey 2008 concerts. In fairness, some people have given personal views which I believe are objective, positive, and reasonable. But for some reason that I could not fully understand, some expert-acting people—try to dampen and belittle these present successes!

I strongly believe that it is useless to question a legitimate SUCCESS—such that of revelation album and the 2008 Journey concerts! By legitimate—I mean obvious, tangible and measurable! You may want to slice it the way you want—I mean, any way that personally suits you in order to dampen it--- but whether you like it or not, in the end---it will remain a success!

And some people even pretend to be mind readers! ---figuring out clearly why the so-called casual fans (like me, I guess!) are buying revelation (or attending concerts?)! In fairness, these mind readers should have held a focused group type survey of actual casual fans who bought the record. Or interview a reasonable number of them, at the very least! Otherwise, your points may be considered hogwash!

I recall one person saying that the album of another singer could have had the same success had it been given the same level of promotion as that of revelation---or something like that. Well, I would say, 50:50=nobody knows for sure!

Goodness gracious! If a current sports team won and earned a trophy in a fair game—would you start questioning why? Do you say that they won---because of the venue! or because of the color of their jerseys! or because they got tons of interviews with the press before the game, etc.? As much as you hoped this winning team to have lost (or not played at all) …does it make sense for you to say that your (other) team, who lost, could have won, too, had they played in the same venue—and given the same jerseys—and given the same interviews, etc? Don’t you think that’s ridiculous?

If your son (or daughter) graduated with honors from an Ivy League school—how would you feel if you overheard somebody say, “he/she did great because he/she had computer and internet connection…or because he/she always had great attire…or because he/she had a great support group….etc”---then added, “actually, my son could have graduated with honors, too, had he been in the same situation!”? Don’t you think that’s embarrassing?

Oh, and one more thing-----on marketing….

There are people elsewhere in this forum who are acting like experts on marketing…so I decided to discuss this topic a little bit here because it’s related to the point I made above!

Some people said authoritatively that the new Journey album (Revelation) is selling:

1. Because of Wal-Mart deal, period!
2. Because of DSB, period!
3. Because of DSB and Wal-Mart deal, period!
4. Not because of the music!
5. Not because of the band!
6. Not because of Arnel!
7. Etc….

Or a combination or modified versions of the above, in varying degrees…

I BEG TO DISAGREE!

Here’s a quick review of what is called Five (5) P’s of Marketing :
1. Product
2. Price
3. Promotion
4. Place (Distribution)
5. People

For details, see:
http://facweb.eths.k12.il.us/feeleyd/sm ... ng_mix.htm
http://homebusiness.about.com/b/2007/07 ... keting.htm

YES! ALL THE 5 COMPONENTS COUNT IN THE REAL MARKETPLACE! But first and foremost--the product should be able to fill a need or a want of the consumer!

CONSUMERS (EVEN THOSE WHO SHOP AT WAL-MART LIKE MYSELF) ARE NOT AS STUPID AS SOME SMART PEOPLE IN THIS FORUM WOULD LIKE TO BELIEVE!!!

- Would you agree that it is extremely difficult to sell a bad or inferior product---even with superior promotion—and/or very good packaging and/or abnormally low price?

- Even a greatly-packaged, high-quality and low-priced meat product will be very hard to sell to a vegetarian!
I can go on and on and on…. I hope you get the point!

There is not much room for marketing boo-boos in this fast-paced, instant, knowledge-based, internet-dominated, unforgiving world of ours!

AGAIN....REVELATION AND JOURNEY 2008 ARE SELLING GREAT BECAUSE OF A COMBINATION OF GOOD, IF NOT GREAT, FACTORS!

Again, no amount of promotion, packaging and pricing strategy can compensate for an inferior product.
Word on—whether you did great or you messed up---will spread---faster than you can imagine!

In the final analysis---I believe that what you and I feel, think, believe in, say or do...don’t really matter in the marketplace!

So let’s just stop whining and making excuses!

edcha wrote:Sorry, but I’m really getting fed up!

First off, this thread probably should have been part of a number of threads elsewhere in this forum but I decided to start a new thread because the other ones are getting uncomfortably too long already. This is not aimed at trashing anybody. Heck I don’t even remember who said what in the other threads. This is just a quick reality check—at least for people who are objective, unbiased, and open-minded in this forum! If you are not, then this is not for you! Apologies to those who, one way or another, have expressed similar ideas presented here.

REVELATION AND JOURNEY 2008 ARE HAVING GREAT SUCCESS BECAUSE OF A COMBINATION OF GOOD, IF NOT GREAT, FACTORS!

Some people try to speculate on the reasons for the success of Journey’s Revelation album, and the Journey 2008 concerts. In fairness, some people have given personal views which I believe are objective, positive, and reasonable. But for some reason that I could not fully understand, some expert-acting people—try to dampen and belittle these present successes!

I strongly believe that it is useless to question a legitimate SUCCESS—such that of revelation album and the 2008 Journey concerts! By legitimate—I mean obvious, tangible and measurable! You may want to slice it the way you want—I mean, any way that personally suits you in order to dampen it--- but whether you like it or not, in the end---it will remain a success!

And some people even pretend to be mind readers! ---figuring out clearly why the so-called casual fans (like me, I guess!) are buying revelation (or attending concerts?)! In fairness, these mind readers should have held a focused group type survey of actual casual fans who bought the record. Or interview a reasonable number of them, at the very least! Otherwise, your points may be considered hogwash!

I recall one saying that the album of another singer could have had the same success had he been given the same level of promotion as that of revelation---or something like that. Well, I would say, 50:50=nobody knows for sure!

Goodness gracious! If a current sports team won and earned a trophy in a fair game—would you start questioning why? Do you say that they won---because of the venue! or because of the color of their jerseys! or because they got tons of interviews with the press before the game, etc.? As much as you hoped this winning team to have lost (or not played at all) …does it make sense for you to say that your (other) team, who lost, could have won, too, had they played in the same venue—and given the same jerseys—and given the same interviews, etc? Don’t you think that’s ridiculous?

If your son (or daughter) graduated with honors from an Ivy League school—how would you feel if you overheard somebody say, “he/she did great because he/she had computer and internet connection…or because he/she always had great attire…or because he/she had a great support group….etc”---then added, “actually, my son could have graduated with honors, too, had he been in the same situation!”? Don’t you think that’s embarrassing?

Oh, and one more thing-----on marketing….

There are people elsewhere in this forum who are acting like experts on marketing…that I decided to discuss this a little bit here because it’s related to the point I made above!

Some people said authoritatively that the new Journey album (Revelation) is selling:

1. Because of Wal-Mart deal, period!
2. Because of DSB, period!
3. Because of DSB and Wal-Mart deal, period!
4. Not because of the music!
5. Not because of the band!
6. Not because of Arnel!
7. Etc….

Or a combination or modified version of this stuff, in varying degrees…

Here’s a quick review of what is called Five (5) P’s of Marketing :
1. Product
2. Price
3. Promotion
4. Place (Distribution)
5. People

For details, see:
http://facweb.eths.k12.il.us/feeleyd/sm ... ng_mix.htm
http://homebusiness.about.com/b/2007/07 ... keting.htm

All the 5 components count in the real marketplace!

CONSUMERS (EVEN THOSE WHO SHOP AT WAL-MART LIKE MYSELF) ARE NOT AS STUPID AS SOME SMART PEOPLE IN THIS FORUM WOULD LIKE TO BELIEVE!!!

-Would you agree that it is extremely difficult to sell a bad or inferior product---even with superior promotion—and/or very good packaging and/or abnormally low price?

-Even a greatly-packaged, high-quality and low-priced meat will be very hard to sell to a vegetarian!
I can go on and on and on…. I hope you get the point!

There is not much room for marketing boo-boos in this fast-paced, instant, knowledge-based, internet-dominated, unforgiving world of ours!

AGAIN....REVELATION AND JOURNEY 2008 ARE SELLING GREAT BECAUSE OF A COMBINATION OF GOOD, IF NOT GREAT, FACTORS!

Again, no amount of promotion, packaging and pricing strategy can compensate for an inferior product.
Word on—whether you did great or you messed up---will spread---faster than you can imagine!

In the final analysis---I believe that what you and I feel, think, believe in, say or do don’t matter in the real marketplace!

So let’s just stop whining and making excuses!

By even the most conservative metric, the re-recorded classics are inferior.
As for what constitutes success and failure, who knows?

edcha wrote:Again, no amount of promotion, packaging and pricing strategy can compensate for an inferior product.
Word on—whether you did great or you messed up---will spread---faster than you can imagine!

I guess that's true in some cases but plenty of low-quality products have sold extremely well over the years.

Holy shit, change your tampon! really.....

Go edcha, go edcha, go!
Go edcha, go edcha, go!

<yawn>

Gunbot wrote:Go edcha, go edcha, go!
Go edcha, go edcha, go!

Has anyone said lately that your avatar chick is absolutely awesome?!
Never been into Asian women, but she is just...hubba hubba...


later~

Arkansas wrote:

Gunbot wrote:Go edcha, go edcha, go!
Go edcha, go edcha, go!

Has anyone said lately that your avatar chick is absolutely awesome?!
Never been into Asian women, but she is just...hubba hubba...


later~

I had to do something. I wanted to see something pleasant when I post. Nothing personal, but seeing a pic of JSS every few lines when reading a thread
wasn't what I had in mind. Just thought I would bring a little balance to the board.

The_Noble_Cause wrote:

edcha wrote:Sorry, but I’m really getting fed up!

First off, this thread probably should have been part of a number of threads elsewhere in this forum but I decided to start a new thread because the other ones are getting uncomfortably too long already. This is not aimed at trashing anybody. Heck I don’t even remember who said what in the other threads. This is just a quick reality check—at least for people who are objective, unbiased, and open-minded in this forum! If you are not, then this is not for you! Apologies to those who, one way or another, have expressed similar ideas presented here.

REVELATION AND JOURNEY 2008 ARE HAVING GREAT SUCCESS BECAUSE OF A COMBINATION OF GOOD, IF NOT GREAT, FACTORS!

Some people try to speculate on the reasons for the success of Journey’s Revelation album, and the Journey 2008 concerts. In fairness, some people have given personal views which I believe are objective, positive, and reasonable. But for some reason that I could not fully understand, some expert-acting people—try to dampen and belittle these present successes!

I strongly believe that it is useless to question a legitimate SUCCESS—such that of revelation album and the 2008 Journey concerts! By legitimate—I mean obvious, tangible and measurable! You may want to slice it the way you want—I mean, any way that personally suits you in order to dampen it--- but whether you like it or not, in the end---it will remain a success!

And some people even pretend to be mind readers! ---figuring out clearly why the so-called casual fans (like me, I guess!) are buying revelation (or attending concerts?)! In fairness, these mind readers should have held a focused group type survey of actual casual fans who bought the record. Or interview a reasonable number of them, at the very least! Otherwise, your points may be considered hogwash!

I recall one saying that the album of another singer could have had the same success had he been given the same level of promotion as that of revelation---or something like that. Well, I would say, 50:50=nobody knows for sure!

Goodness gracious! If a current sports team won and earned a trophy in a fair game—would you start questioning why? Do you say that they won---because of the venue! or because of the color of their jerseys! or because they got tons of interviews with the press before the game, etc.? As much as you hoped this winning team to have lost (or not played at all) …does it make sense for you to say that your (other) team, who lost, could have won, too, had they played in the same venue—and given the same jerseys—and given the same interviews, etc? Don’t you think that’s ridiculous?

If your son (or daughter) graduated with honors from an Ivy League school—how would you feel if you overheard somebody say, “he/she did great because he/she had computer and internet connection…or because he/she always had great attire…or because he/she had a great support group….etc”---then added, “actually, my son could have graduated with honors, too, had he been in the same situation!”? Don’t you think that’s embarrassing?

Oh, and one more thing-----on marketing….

There are people elsewhere in this forum who are acting like experts on marketing…that I decided to discuss this a little bit here because it’s related to the point I made above!

Some people said authoritatively that the new Journey album (Revelation) is selling:

1. Because of Wal-Mart deal, period!
2. Because of DSB, period!
3. Because of DSB and Wal-Mart deal, period!
4. Not because of the music!
5. Not because of the band!
6. Not because of Arnel!
7. Etc….

Or a combination or modified version of this stuff, in varying degrees…

Here’s a quick review of what is called Five (5) P’s of Marketing :
1. Product
2. Price
3. Promotion
4. Place (Distribution)
5. People

For details, see:
http://facweb.eths.k12.il.us/feeleyd/sm ... ng_mix.htm
http://homebusiness.about.com/b/2007/07 ... keting.htm

All the 5 components count in the real marketplace!

CONSUMERS (EVEN THOSE WHO SHOP AT WAL-MART LIKE MYSELF) ARE NOT AS STUPID AS SOME SMART PEOPLE IN THIS FORUM WOULD LIKE TO BELIEVE!!!

-Would you agree that it is extremely difficult to sell a bad or inferior product---even with superior promotion—and/or very good packaging and/or abnormally low price?

-Even a greatly-packaged, high-quality and low-priced meat will be very hard to sell to a vegetarian!
I can go on and on and on…. I hope you get the point!

There is not much room for marketing boo-boos in this fast-paced, instant, knowledge-based, internet-dominated, unforgiving world of ours!

AGAIN....REVELATION AND JOURNEY 2008 ARE SELLING GREAT BECAUSE OF A COMBINATION OF GOOD, IF NOT GREAT, FACTORS!

Again, no amount of promotion, packaging and pricing strategy can compensate for an inferior product.
Word on—whether you did great or you messed up---will spread---faster than you can imagine!

In the final analysis---I believe that what you and I feel, think, believe in, say or do don’t matter in the real marketplace!

So let’s just stop whining and making excuses!

By even the most conservative metric, the re-recorded classics are inferior.
As for what constitutes success and failure, who knows?

That could mean that people, like you, are getting their money's worth just for the new song CD.
While I agree that success can mean different things to different people, would you agree that there are common-sense signs of success that a normal objective person (with average I.Q.) can identify pretty easily, especially in the world of marketing records and band concerts!

----like attaining gold status or possibly platinum...maybe?
----like sold-out concert venues...maybe?
----like more positive than negative, reviews...maybe?

Matthew wrote:

edcha wrote:Again, no amount of promotion, packaging and pricing strategy can compensate for an inferior product.
Word on—whether you did great or you messed up---will spread---faster than you can imagine!

I guess that's true in some cases but plenty of low-quality products have sold extremely well over the years.

I would argue---without dissecting statistics---that it's true, not in some---but in most cases!

Unless...the choice is between two comparable inferior products---then the one inferior product with better packaging and lower price wins!

Gunbot wrote:Go edcha, go edcha, go!
Go edcha, go edcha, go!

I'm not sure whether you are serious or not, gunbot---but I'm really tempted to invite you as honorary member of my family!


On second thought....forget about it! We're too many already!

strangegrey wrote:Holy shit, change your tampon! really.....

Oh...you're still here! All the while I thought.....

Anyway, you know what? I'll change my tampon if you promise me I can send it to you by mail...and that you will re-use it!!!

edcha wrote:

Gunbot wrote:Go edcha, go edcha, go!
Go edcha, go edcha, go!

I'm not sure whether you are serious or not, gunbot---but I'm really tempted to invite you as honorary member of my family!


On second thought....forget about it! We're too many already!

It was very refreshing to see you step up and voice your opinion concerning a subject
that seemed to be annoying you. It was well presented and even if we don't agree with every point that you made, I myself appreciated your initiative to express your personal view on the subject.

Gunbot wrote:

edcha wrote:

Gunbot wrote:Go edcha, go edcha, go!
Go edcha, go edcha, go!

I'm not sure whether you are serious or not, gunbot---but I'm really tempted to invite you as honorary member of my family!


On second thought....forget about it! We're too many already!

It was very refreshing to see you step up and voice your opinion concerning a subject
that seemed to be annoying you. It was well presented and even if we don't agree with every point that you made, I myself appreciated your initiative to express your personal view on the subject.

In that case, thanks a bunch!

Your post is to long and complicated, I fuckin have ADD

stevew2 wrote:Your post is to long and complicated, I fuckin have ADD

too much time on those typing hands....wow...

Marketing IS a major factor for the success, but the bottom line is, Journey 2008 sounds awesome and if there's one band to bring back melodic rock to a younger crowd....it's Journey.

stevew2 wrote:Your post is to long and complicated, I fuckin have ADD

That's what I thought, too!
I've been working hard to write a novel...to no avail!
So, I guess this is another desperate attempt!

edcha wrote:

stevew2 wrote:Your post is to long and complicated, I fuckin have ADD

That's what I thought, too!
I've been working hard to write a novel...to no avail!
So, I guess this is another desperate attempt!

There is no way I could write a novel,I get my letters backwards,I can play and write music, so go figure. Everybodys brain is different, look at Friga, someone that retarded and shallow can write such good songs

texafana wrote:too much time on those typing hands....wow...

Marketing IS a major factor for the success, but the bottom line is, Journey 2008 sounds awesome and if there's one band to bring back melodic rock to a younger crowd....it's Journey.

Yeah, TGIF night! ...the only time I can relax and write a little bit!
We're on the same boat, texafana.

E,
I have a feeling you are a big fan of Arnel's. Have you gone to Rick's youtube page and checked out the older video performances of Journey or are you already familiar with their complete catalog?

http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=Ricksvidz

Arkansas wrote:

Gunbot wrote:Go edcha, go edcha, go!
Go edcha, go edcha, go!

Has anyone said lately that your avatar chick is absolutely awesome?!
Never been into Asian women, but she is just...hubba hubba...


later~

Yup....Hell, those avatars are in my top 5 reasons to come in here!

Gunbot wrote:E,
I have a feeling you are a big fan of Arnel's. Have you gone to Rick's youtube page and checked out the older video performances of Journey or are you already familiar with their complete catalog?

http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=Ricksvidz

I like both SP's & AP's singing. I listen to both often. I don't have any strong emotional attachment to any of them--and that's probably good! I just enjoy listening to their music. For some reason, though, my ears prefer AP's "bigger" tenor voice. Although I want to, I have not had the chance to listen to Journey's complete catalog. I plan to do that in the near future.

Gunbot wrote:

Arkansas wrote:

Gunbot wrote:Go edcha, go edcha, go!
Go edcha, go edcha, go!

Has anyone said lately that your avatar chick is absolutely awesome?!
Never been into Asian women, but she is just...hubba hubba...


later~

I had to do something. I wanted to see something pleasant when I post. Nothing personal, but seeing a pic of JSS every few lines when reading a thread
wasn't what I had in mind. Just thought I would bring a little balance to the board.

That you did... love it!!!

stevew2 wrote:Your post is to long and complicated, I fuckin have ADD

lmfao!

Perrydise wrote:

stevew2 wrote:Your post is to long and complicated, I fuckin have ADD

lmfao!

stevew2 wrote:

edcha wrote:

stevew2 wrote:Your post is to long and complicated, I fuckin have ADD

That's what I thought, too!
I've been working hard to write a novel...to no avail!
So, I guess this is another desperate attempt!

There is no way I could write a novel,I get my letters backwards,I can play and write music, so go figure. Everybodys brain is different, look at Friga, someone that retarded and shallow can write such good songs

I wanted to...but there's no way I could play and write music! I can play only do-re-mi back & forth on my piano!

edcha wrote:For some reason, though, my ears prefer AP's "bigger" tenor voice.

Not sure what band your listening to, but the fact of the matter is that, Arnel Pineda's voice is not bigger than Steve Perry's voice, or was in his prime. And it clearly shows when you compare the classics of each singer. Pineda is not even recognised as one of the worlds best singers, where to Steve Perry has been labled "the voice" among other greats. Perry's the best this band ever had, period!. It's his legacy, anyone else is playing tribute, and doing it graciously, but... the best era is long gone!.

Vladan wrote:

edcha wrote:For some reason, though, my ears prefer AP's "bigger" tenor voice.

Not sure what band your listening to, but the fact of the matter is that, Arnel Pineda's voice is not bigger than Steve Perry's voice, or was in his prime. And it clearly shows when you compare the classics of each singer. Pineda is not even recognised as one of the worlds best singers, where to Steve Perry has been labled "the voice" among other greats. Perry's the best this band ever had, period!. It's his legacy, anyone else is playing tribute, and doing it graciously, but... the best era is long gone!.

Thank You

Vladan wrote:

edcha wrote:For some reason, though, my ears prefer AP's "bigger" tenor voice.

Not sure what band your listening to, but the fact of the matter is that, Arnel Pineda's voice is not bigger than Steve Perry's voice, or was in his prime. And it clearly shows when you compare the classics of each singer. Pineda is not even recognised as one of the worlds best singers, where to Steve Perry has been labled "the voice" among other greats. Perry's the best this band ever had, period!. It's his legacy, anyone else is playing tribute, and doing it graciously, but... the best era is long gone!.

I didn't even want to get involved in this thread, but I'm stepping in to say bravo to this ^. There's no denying that Arnel is talented. But bigger or better voice than Steve Perry? Errrrmmm... no. As a substitute he fits the bill but that's all he is in this case. Anyone that sings with this band is under that impossible shadow, and subject to unfair comparisons. You can't compare these guys to Perry. And the sad sorry attempt with those stupid rerecords was just pathetic.