MR

Facing a couple technical challenges at work and thought I'd ask here to see if anyone had some advice.

Number one, our company needs to trade large PDF documents (>30mb) between our server and various law firms and insurance companies. Traditional FTP is basically out. We are using Sharepoint for the moment. We have one of the world's most advanced document repositories, but it does not handle large file sizes well. The issue is when the user tries to open the file directly. It is taking about a minute to get the file open. We'd rather not have to have them save the file first. Even when we compress and web-optimize the file, it is still taking that long.

Number two, we want to include little training videos throughout one of our products. What's the best solution for recording screen movements, along with audio to creat small video files?

Thanks.

Mike

Do short run business CD-ROMs with my company.
24 hour turn... I'll hook you up.

Memorex wrote:Facing a couple technical challenges at work and thought I'd ask here to see if anyone had some advice.

Number one, our company needs to trade large PDF documents (>30mb) between our server and various law firms and insurance companies. Traditional FTP is basically out. We are using Sharepoint for the moment. We have one of the world's most advanced document repositories, but it does not handle large file sizes well. The issue is when the user tries to open the file directly. It is taking about a minute to get the file open. We'd rather not have to have them save the file first. Even when we compress and web-optimize the file, it is still taking that long.

Number two, we want to include little training videos throughout one of our products. What's the best solution for recording screen movements, along with audio to creat small video files?

Thanks.

Mike

does it save the file first then open it or does it open it up as it downloads it? either way it won't be possible to really open a 30mb doc w/o downloading it first.

what links do you have to the library (speed wise) and how many concurrent users hit it at any given time? what is the server like holding the doc library?

Memorex wrote:Facing a couple technical challenges at work and thought I'd ask here to see if anyone had some advice.

Number one, our company needs to trade large PDF documents (>30mb) between our server and various law firms and insurance companies. Traditional FTP is basically out. We are using Sharepoint for the moment. We have one of the world's most advanced document repositories, but it does not handle large file sizes well. The issue is when the user tries to open the file directly. It is taking about a minute to get the file open. We'd rather not have to have them save the file first. Even when we compress and web-optimize the file, it is still taking that long.

Number two, we want to include little training videos throughout one of our products. What's the best solution for recording screen movements, along with audio to creat small video files?

Thanks.

Mike

as for making video files, i can look into that one but what specs are you talking about? rhi's cd solution? make it for download also? bandwidth concern?

Memorex wrote:Traditional FTP is basically out.

Why? My company has our clients upload large ZIP and RAR files all the time. Works like a charm, especially if you have a lot of bandwidth. The problem can be security but only if you're not attentive to detail.

conversationpc wrote:

Memorex wrote:Traditional FTP is basically out.

Why? My company has our clients upload large ZIP and RAR files all the time. Works like a charm, especially if you have a lot of bandwidth. The problem can be security but only if you're not attentive to detail.

my guess is overall usability.

No FTP per usability. These are dumb lawyers (with all due respect).

The PDF files do not seem to want to open the first page while downloading the rest. Not sure why - we ran it through some tools that said we could make that happen.

Top of the line servers. In fact, when I am local to that server, the docs open via the Sharepoint site in a matter of one or two seconds.

Bandwidth is not an issue at all for the PDF's or videos. Assume one user per file at a time.

The videos or just short how-to's for a product we created and they will be run local to the user. No web action there.

Thanks.

PS - Any PDF experts in the crowd?

Memorex wrote:No FTP per usability. These are dumb lawyers (with all due respect).

The PDF files do not seem to want to open the first page while downloading the rest. Not sure why - we ran it through some tools that said we could make that happen.

Top of the line servers. In fact, when I am local to that server, the docs open via the Sharepoint site in a matter of one or two seconds.

Bandwidth is not an issue at all for the PDF's or videos. Assume one user per file at a time.

The videos or just short how-to's for a product we created and they will be run local to the user. No web action there.

Thanks.

PS - Any PDF experts in the crowd?

nothing you want to do is complex.

except for trying to read 30mb files w/o having to download them. you can either wait till it's done or do progressive or to a terminal server.

PM me for ideas/suggestions and budget. i can help and would be glad to.

Memorex wrote:No FTP per usability. These are dumb lawyers (with all due respect).

If some of the people at my office can use FTP, lawyers could also.

Memorex wrote:No FTP per usability. These are dumb lawyers (with all due respect).

The PDF files do not seem to want to open the first page while downloading the rest. Not sure why - we ran it through some tools that said we could make that happen.

Top of the line servers. In fact, when I am local to that server, the docs open via the Sharepoint site in a matter of one or two seconds.

Bandwidth is not an issue at all for the PDF's or videos. Assume one user per file at a time.

The videos or just short how-to's for a product we created and they will be run local to the user. No web action there.

Thanks.

PS - Any PDF experts in the crowd?

what browser are you using? are pdf's set to open inside the browser or as a seperate file?

top of the line servers doesn't mean much really. but if we assume 1 reader at a time then it really doesn't matter. my main question is will *many* (20+) people be accessing this at once. if not then i won't worry about it. the network admin may but i won't. how long does it take to donwload a 30mb file? (give or take)

training videos can get tricky. are you paying for bandwidth or do you have a set connection speed? the problem is people make them to "high" a quality and the file sizes not only get big but take up huge amounts of bandwidth to play.

if you want to record screen actions - windows media encoder will do that and it's a free tool. not fun to use, but free.
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/libr ... 76135.aspx

now if you have money to spend, buy real software.
http://graphicssoft.about.com/od/screen ... indows.htm

whole lot of stuff to capture screen movements.

downloading while still opening the 1st page so you can start reading. i believe that's a setting is all but i'd have to find it.

not a pdf expert but i know sharepoint ok (don't like it, prefer joomla but that all depends on what you need done) and can try to help. PM me and i'll see what i can do.

You can send up to 100MB files for free using www.yousendit.com

I've used it a few times for work purposes.

I use Camtasia at work to record screen movements.

There are plenty of sites that send large files... aside from YouSendIt (if it still has a download limit I'd avoid it) there's Sendspace.com, Megaupload.com, Rapidshare.com...

Sarah wrote:I use Camtasia at work to record screen movements.

There are plenty of sites that send large files... aside from YouSendIt (if it still has a download limit I'd avoid it) there's Sendspace.com, Megaupload.com, Rapidshare.com...

i don't think the issue is sending large files.

i think the issue is waiting to download 30-40mb files when you want it to allow you to read it while it still downloads.

correct me if wrong.

Sites like YouSendIt, etc are too generic and not professional enough for what we want to do. We can make Sharepoint or our other sites look like our sites. They are branded, etc. No advertising, codes, etc. We also want the repository to be a place the users can come and continually look at the documents. Downloading seems to be a necessity, but not our first choice.

I know I have seen PDF's open to the first page or so while still downloading the rest. We can't seem to get that to work.

Browser should be whatever the user is using, most likely IE, but could be anything.

Two separate issues here. The PDF files deal with people on the outside – the general customer. The videos are for an application that will be local to the user (or inside terminal server). No need to worry about bandwidth, internet speed, etc. Just looking for a good program to do it with.

I’ll PM, but not sure there is much money there. That’s why I am looking for technical answers on a Journey music board.

Thanks for all the feedback.

Memorex wrote:Sites like YouSendIt, etc are too generic and not professional enough for what we want to do. We can make Sharepoint or our other sites look like our sites. They are branded, etc. No advertising, codes, etc. We also want the repository to be a place the users can come and continually look at the documents. Downloading seems to be a necessity, but not our first choice.

I know I have seen PDF's open to the first page or so while still downloading the rest. We can't seem to get that to work.

Browser should be whatever the user is using, most likely IE, but could be anything.

Two separate issues here. The PDF files deal with people on the outside – the general customer. The videos are for an application that will be local to the user (or inside terminal server). No need to worry about bandwidth, internet speed, etc. Just looking for a good program to do it with.

I’ll PM, but not sure there is much money there. That’s why I am looking for technical answers on a Journey music board.

Thanks for all the feedback.

http://odcte.alcaweb.org/cgi-bin/WebObj ... 3vd3nbli7v

there's a link to the adobe site but it's been "unavailable" for the last 30 minutes so i couldn't pull from there.

basically you install an activex control inside IE and let it open the document inside the browser itself. you may need the "full" reader installed to give this configurable option to you.

helping any?

No luck with that. It's already opening in I.E. I tried both in and out of it.

Thanks guys. I appreciate everyone's feedback.

Who do you use for your repository?

Sharepoint is horrid!

We use MasterControl and it has a training module with it.

Does Microsoft Groove let everybody open big files online at the same time? How does that program work?

RossValoryRocks wrote:Who do you use for your repository?

Sharepoint is horrid!

We use MasterControl and it has a training module with it.

We have a Virtual Deal Room repository, but it is focused mainly on storage and versioning, as well as secure file browsing. For example, you can view the document, but not print it or save it. That viewer does not work with another aspect of our business which is to open large medical records.

These records need to be looked at by several people, not all at once, across the US and abroad. We need to deliver these docs in such a way that they are available as needed (not emailed). We'd also like the user to be able to open them. Right now, a 120 meg PDF takes about 3.5 minutes ot open. If we super optimize it, we have it down to 1.5. Still too long. We also need to make sure one user does not see another user's files.

Memorex wrote:No luck with that. It's already opening in I.E. I tried both in and out of it.

Thanks guys. I appreciate everyone's feedback.

ok, opening inside of IE - what you should see is:

http://www.litmonthly.com/Magazine.html - click on the sept issue. (andrew i hope this isn't a party foul but the closest i can get to an example)

this is about 30mb or so. what you *should* see if you're wanting what i think you're wanting is it open up *inside* of IE and display the first page and so on *as it keeps downloading*. you can start reading while it does the rest but it will still make the machine "hiccup" from time to time.

now if you have to download it all before you can read it that's option 2.

options
1. read while downloading - configured by the user, not you
2. download then read w/o the overhead - configured by the user, not you
3. terminal services - configured by you and you can lock their environment like a profile

option 3 is the only way i know of to not have to download the file because the user is logged into a local machine and it's just doing a quick screen draw. but this isn't easy and will need a pretty hefty server you don't usually get from best buy.

if i knew the entire requirements perhaps i could help more with alternatives.

Memorex wrote:

RossValoryRocks wrote:Who do you use for your repository?

Sharepoint is horrid!

We use MasterControl and it has a training module with it.

We have a Virtual Deal Room repository, but it is focused mainly on storage and versioning, as well as secure file browsing. For example, you can view the document, but not print it or save it. That viewer does not work with another aspect of our business which is to open large medical records.

These records need to be looked at by several people, not all at once, across the US and abroad. We need to deliver these docs in such a way that they are available as needed (not emailed). We'd also like the user to be able to open them. Right now, a 120 meg PDF takes about 3.5 minutes ot open. If we super optimize it, we have it down to 1.5. Still too long. We also need to make sure one user does not see another user's files.

if i can view a doc, i can capture it easily with an ALT PRNT SCRN. but i do totally understand security concerns. i just think they're usually written by people who don't have the full security background to get what they're after.

are there a lot of graphics in the PDF? if so what type of optimization are you doing to the pictures before you PDF 'em? maybe a lot, maybe none, depends on how many graphics are in it. straight txt would be a few dozen copies of war and peace to get this.

also, if i download it i have it locally and can do to it just about whatever i wish. are you doing anything to ensure the files don't get kept locally?

now for file management per user, not sure i'd go into sharepoint for that. that's going to rely on AD and then groups and policies and profiles. then again most anything you do to get that granular would, i suppose. no idea how you're assigning rights to files but i'll assume you've got that covered.

ya'll may want to look into terminal services. sharepoint is good when used for what it was designed to do (document management being one) but many people step outside that and then require custom dev on top of it and that makes support pretty interesting.

terminal services (remote desktop) - i log into your server and when i open the file it opens locally and just sends me a redraw of the screen. i don't download it and i never have it local to my own machine. i can also set accounts and profiles that when they log in, it will dictate what they have access to. doing that in sharepoint isn't fun.

iceberg wrote:

Memorex wrote:

RossValoryRocks wrote:Who do you use for your repository?

Sharepoint is horrid!

We use MasterControl and it has a training module with it.

We have a Virtual Deal Room repository, but it is focused mainly on storage and versioning, as well as secure file browsing. For example, you can view the document, but not print it or save it. That viewer does not work with another aspect of our business which is to open large medical records.

These records need to be looked at by several people, not all at once, across the US and abroad. We need to deliver these docs in such a way that they are available as needed (not emailed). We'd also like the user to be able to open them. Right now, a 120 meg PDF takes about 3.5 minutes ot open. If we super optimize it, we have it down to 1.5. Still too long. We also need to make sure one user does not see another user's files.

if i can view a doc, i can capture it easily with an ALT PRNT SCRN. but i do totally understand security concerns. i just think they're usually written by people who don't have the full security background to get what they're after.

are there a lot of graphics in the PDF? if so what type of optimization are you doing to the pictures before you PDF 'em? maybe a lot, maybe none, depends on how many graphics are in it. straight txt would be a few dozen copies of war and peace to get this.

also, if i download it i have it locally and can do to it just about whatever i wish. are you doing anything to ensure the files don't get kept locally?

now for file management per user, not sure i'd go into sharepoint for that. that's going to rely on AD and then groups and policies and profiles. then again most anything you do to get that granular would, i suppose. no idea how you're assigning rights to files but i'll assume you've got that covered.

ya'll may want to look into terminal services. sharepoint is good when used for what it was designed to do (document management being one) but many people step outside that and then require custom dev on top of it and that makes support pretty interesting.

terminal services (remote desktop) - i log into your server and when i open the file it opens locally and just sends me a redraw of the screen. i don't download it and i never have it local to my own machine. i can also set accounts and profiles that when they log in, it will dictate what they have access to. doing that in sharepoint isn't fun.

The litmonthly example is exactly what I need. See the first page as the rest is downloading.

I don't want to confuse the issues though. Our VDR site, with the lock on printing/editing is a separate business line. The challenge I am facing now has to do with medical records. Our clients will have full access - Print, copy to their machine, whatever.

Terminal services will not work for our outside clients because they would have to map a drive, etc to get the file on to their system. They need to be able to take that doc and do whatever they need with it. We use terminal servers for our actual work though. PDF's open very fast.

Some files have more graphics than others. It's medical records, so you may have pictures of injuries. Mostly text though.

We chose SharePoint for two reasons. We can't really go outside for a third party repository that we cannot brand. We have our own, so how would that look? We have a license for SharePoint and have some users that are good at administering it. But yes, we have to set up rights individually and it sucks. Not to mention, we have to have a different SharePoint site for every client.

So the big question is - how can I get it to work like the litmonthly example you provided?????

Memorex wrote:The litmonthly example is exactly what I need. See the first page as the rest is downloading.

I don't want to confuse the issues though. Our VDR site, with the lock on printing/editing is a separate business line. The challenge I am facing now has to do with medical records. Our clients will have full access - Print, copy to their machine, whatever.

Terminal services will not work for our outside clients because they would have to map a drive, etc to get the file on to their system. They need to be able to take that doc and do whatever they need with it. We use terminal servers for our actual work though. PDF's open very fast.

Some files have more graphics than others. It's medical records, so you may have pictures of injuries. Mostly text though.

We chose SharePoint for two reasons. We can't really go outside for a third party repository that we cannot brand. We have our own, so how would that look? We have a license for SharePoint and have some users that are good at administering it. But yes, we have to set up rights individually and it sucks. Not to mention, we have to have a different SharePoint site for every client.

So the big question is - how can I get it to work like the litmonthly example you provided?????

immediate answer above in my other reply about the activex control. it's a client side issue, not a server side. what you do won't matter in how they see it. how their browser is set is what makes the difference.

security - no problem, i'll stay out of it. just scoping the problem.

if you have 120mb of txt in a PDF good lord. never made a PDF and maybe that's normal but TXT is easy. pics usually would be the issue in compression. i'll put that aside however.

how would that look? like you were solving a problem properly? i get what you mean. i just think people try to make tools fit their projects vs their projects fitting the tools then get locked into a product and try to make it do things it's not good at doing. and yes, different sites for different customers can be cumbersome. dotnetnuke is much better at lateral expansion where sharepoint covers downlevel better. that either makes sense or it doesn't.

terminal server has nothing to do with mapping drives. it puts a server window on your local machine your local machine can't and won't touch normally. you open "remote desktop" and open a session to say "myworkplace.com" and as long as that computer is set to take remote sessions, it will allow you to log in.

you'll see a desktop of that server in that window on your machine. however your machine can't communicate with that server except through that window. also you'll be more or less "logged into that server" but on your machine through that window. picture logging into the server directly but in this window. you'll get whatever desktop your profile says you get and you're "on" the server.

now in that environment you can set the variables per user / per group and lock it down to anything you want. this also eliminates downloading because they never will. they open it up on the server they logged into it, it opens it and just redraws the screen (which is infinately faster).

that also takes care of some security issues that we're not going to get into that came up.