MR

The debate continues as to whether 'Raised on Radio' is really Journey or the next
phase of Steve Perry's solo work and what I would like to hear are the original
recordings with Steve Smith and Ross Valory. Herbie Herbert said that the tracks
were finished when he was informed that SP didn't like them and wanted to replace
Smith and Valory.

Sony has repackaged and put out Journey's catalogue in almost every other form - why not
this one? Even if it were put out only as a digital download, it stands to make money.

I would like to hear the originals and whether 'Raised on Radio' rocked like Journey with
the original band members - it may even be better than what was released.

Has Perry done a remaster of ROR yet? Anyway, I can't see Sony/BMG trying to dig up those recordings, we can't even get a second live DVD with PERRY out of them even though they have shows in the vault.

Gunbot wrote:Has Perry done a remaster of ROR yet? Anyway, I can't see Sony/BMG trying to dig up those recordings, we can't even get a second live DVD with PERRY out of them even though they have shows in the vault.

Does Sony/BMG have them or does Perry own them?

There's no debate. This 22 year old album is part of the Journey catalogue regardless of who may or may not have had the most influence during the development process. Would love to hear any unreleased material though for sure.

escapefan wrote:

Gunbot wrote:Has Perry done a remaster of ROR yet? Anyway, I can't see Sony/BMG trying to dig up those recordings, we can't even get a second live DVD with PERRY out of them even though they have shows in the vault.

Does Sony/BMG have them or does Perry own them?

Sony owns the rights to ROR. I think anything recorded with their money is considered their property. That's how they have things like the rare demos and stuff. Nothing is garbage to them, they see selling potential in every little piece of recorded tape, whether it makes the album or not. The problem is getting them to release it in a time table that we want, instead of their own schedule.

There is no schedule...other than the 1998 live album and the Houston DVD, there's been little in the way of stuff from the Journey 'vault.' Certainly there was plenty of room on the remastered discs for far more interesting bonus material than the scraps that were offered (particularly on the first couple albums), my guess is it is Perry, not Sony, that's preventing the release of things like the original ROR recordings.

I doubt they're that much better...you can't polish a turd, but I do imagine the tracks would at least have a bit more life to them with Smith on drums and a less dated drum sound.

WalrusOct9 wrote:There is no schedule...other than the 1998 live album and the Houston DVD, there's been little in the way of stuff from the Journey 'vault.' Certainly there was plenty of room on the remastered discs for far more interesting bonus material than the scraps that were offered (particularly on the first couple albums), my guess is it is Perry, not Sony, that's preventing the release of things like the original ROR recordings.

I doubt they're that much better...you can't polish a turd, but I do imagine the tracks would at least have a bit more life to them with Smith on drums and a less dated drum sound.

I believe you are right. The Houston DVD is an example of a release that had to pass muster with the band members before seeing the light of day. I concur with your sentiment about ROR.

My belief is that the original ROR will not sound too much different than the record we know. It is amazing when you hear a label or band replaces members or producers and redo an album or track. Then you hear the result and there is no difference.

One band in particular recorded a record without a producer and it was rejected by the label as not being heavy enough and they were forced to rerecord with a producer of the label's choice. They went in and recorded the same 14 songs and the label loved it and put it out. It went double-plywood. The band put out their record through their fan club 11 years later and besides the fact that it was never mastered it sounds the same. They were told they could release the original, but could not master it as it would not be considered a demo if they mastered it. Retarded label stuff.

Hollywood wrote:My belief is that the original ROR will not sound too much different than the record we know. It is amazing when you hear a label or band replaces members or producers and redo an album or track. Then you hear the result and there is no difference.

One band in particular recorded a record without a producer and it was rejected by the label as not being heavy enough and they were forced to rerecord with a producer of the label's choice. They went in and recorded the same 14 songs and the label loved it and put it out. It went double-plywood. The band put out their record through their fan club 11 years later and besides the fact that it was never mastered it sounds the same. They were told they could release the original, but could not master it as it would not be considered a demo if they mastered it. Retarded label stuff.

I hate to mention the dreaded Dave Matthews Band again but the eventually released album Busted Stuff sounded way different (much more upbeat) than the original version recorded with producer Steve Lillywhite. This is definitely worth a comparison - the original recordings, which many prefer, often go under the name The Lillywhite Sessions.

So you think Perry doesn't want it out there due to his voice concerns at that time? If they don't own the rights, how can Perry stop Sony from releasing it. Surely there are previous album in the vault (prior to Escape) that Sony could also release. Yeah I know SMFP has more money than God, but could he hold it up indefinitely..

SherriBerry wrote:The debate continues as to whether 'Raised on Radio' is really Journey or the next
phase of Steve Perry's solo work and what I would like to hear are the original
recordings with Steve Smith and Ross Valory.

Three of the songs on the album feature Steve Smith...and it isn't immediately obvious which ones they are....so not that different I imagine.

Was "Let It rock" you recorded during the early stages of the ROR sessions?

Matthew wrote:

SherriBerry wrote:The debate continues as to whether 'Raised on Radio' is really Journey or the next
phase of Steve Perry's solo work and what I would like to hear are the original
recordings with Steve Smith and Ross Valory.

Three of the songs on the album feature Steve Smith...and it isn't immediately obvious which ones they are....so not that different I imagine.

Was "Let It rock" you recorded during the early stages of the ROR sessions?

There has been alot of speculation about that track going back to when I first heard it sometime around '96 or so (probably even more speculation BEFORE then), but nobody seems to have any definite proof of the actual origin of the song. Personally, I don't think "Let it Rock You" is even a Journey song at all, but rather a Perry solo effort from around the "Street Talk" era......it doesn't sound like Steve Smith's drumming style, nor Neal's guitar stylings.

WalrusOct9 wrote:Certainly there was plenty of room on the remastered discs for far more interesting bonus material than the scraps that were offered (particularly on the first couple albums)

Fully agreed. As much as I griped about The Who reissuing everything (several times over), I must say, they added a lot of really interesting stuff - studio outtakes, alternate versions, "lost" tracks... I was hoping for the same when I heard about the Journey reissues. Departure and Frontiers didn't dissapoint... I mean Frontiers didn't have anything "unheard" but at least it grouped together 4 good tracks (well, ok 3 great ones and 1 kinda ok one) that weren't already on that album. That's where Escape and Radio lost me. And don't tell me there aren't some "lost" ones or demos laying around from Evolution, or at least from that time period. That was the one album where I was dying for bonus material.

And if there are tracks from Radio with Smith on them laying around, damn it, I WANT to hear them.

bluejeangirl76 wrote: And don't tell me there aren't some "lost" ones or demos laying around from Evolution, or at least from that time period. That was the one album where I was dying for bonus material.

And if there are tracks from Radio with Smith on them laying around, damn it, I WANT to hear them.

I would pay serious money for either demos of the songs on the album OR unreleased stuff from my favorite album "Evolution".

I'm also with you about the ROR outtakes/demos, since Smitty is my favorite drummer.

I'd forgotten about these recordings. I'd LOVE to hear this stuff.
I cannot believe that Smith was replaced. Eyes of a Woman is a great drum track.
I wonder if most of the tapes that exist are the drum machine ones or the actual Smith ones?

brywool wrote:I cannot believe that Smith was replaced.

That's damn near as bad as replacing Steve Perry. Its just NOT the same.
Very very poor choice and I don't care WHOSE choice it was. Never should have happened.

bluejeangirl76 wrote:

WalrusOct9 wrote:Certainly there was plenty of room on the remastered discs for far more interesting bonus material than the scraps that were offered (particularly on the first couple albums)

Fully agreed. As much as I griped about The Who reissuing everything (several times over), I must say, they added a lot of really interesting stuff - studio outtakes, alternate versions, "lost" tracks... I was hoping for the same when I heard about the Journey reissues. Departure and Frontiers didn't dissapoint... I mean Frontiers didn't have anything "unheard" but at least it grouped together 4 good tracks (well, ok 3 great ones and 1 kinda ok one) that weren't already on that album. That's where Escape and Radio lost me. And don't tell me there aren't some "lost" ones or demos laying around from Evolution, or at least from that time period. That was the one album where I was dying for bonus material.

And if there are tracks from Radio with Smith on them laying around, damn it, I WANT to hear them.

I want a million dollars too, but you don't hear me in here whining about it!

Gunbot wrote:Sony owns the rights to ROR. I think anything recorded with their money is considered their property.

Depends on the arrangement that Journey had with them.

The band Chicago had a clause in their contract with Columbia that a) when all albums have recouped + b) x profit has been made, all Chicago albums under Columbia/Sony revert back to the band. After 120 million albums were sold by Chicago, they started asking questions like why Sony was saying "the albums hadn't met the sales criteria to revert to the band". They audited the label and then discovered that the albums should have been handed over MANY YEARS earlier. Along came money, an apology and the album rights.

G.I.Jim wrote:

bluejeangirl76 wrote:And if there are tracks from Radio with Smith on them laying around, damn it, I WANT to hear them.

I want a million dollars too, but you don't hear me in here whining about it!

Who whined? I just said I want to hear them (damn it!).
But I want a million dollars too, as long as we're wishing for stuff.

they should release these ASAP. I want to hear what music got suppressed by his nodeness.

Saint John wrote:they should release these ASAP. I want to hear what music got suppressed by his nodeness.

He has distinguishable nodes, too? Wow. Didn't know. Cool.

DracIsBack wrote:

Gunbot wrote:Sony owns the rights to ROR. I think anything recorded with their money is considered their property.

Depends on the arrangement that Journey had with them.

The band Chicago had a clause in their contract with Columbia that a) when all albums have recouped + b) x profit has been made, all Chicago albums under Columbia/Sony revert back to the band. After 120 million albums were sold by Chicago, they started asking questions like why Sony was saying "the albums hadn't met the sales criteria to revert to the band". They audited the label and then discovered that the albums should have been handed over MANY YEARS earlier. Along came money, an apology and the album rights.

I think if Sony can continue to release compilation albums, than they still have the rights and when I look at what Chicago had to sell through, I seriously doubt if Journey could have hit acceptable numbers to trigger that kind of clause. Herbie would probably know, but in his last interview with Andrew he never mentioned it, which I think he would have since the controversy around the re-records was a hot topic at that time.

DracIsBack wrote:Depends on the arrangement that Journey had with them.

The band Chicago had a clause in their contract with Columbia that a) when all albums have recouped + b) x profit has been made, all Chicago albums under Columbia/Sony revert back to the band. After 120 million albums were sold by Chicago, they started asking questions like why Sony was saying "the albums hadn't met the sales criteria to revert to the band". They audited the label and then discovered that the albums should have been handed over MANY YEARS earlier. Along came money, an apology and the album rights.

Very interesting!!! Could it be that Journey (mainly Perry) is trying like mad to meet some pre-set numbers so certain songs then become his/their property again???

bluejeangirl76 wrote:
And if there are tracks from Radio with Smith on them laying around, damn it, I WANT to hear them.

They're on the album. Positive Touch...Eyes of a Woman...and WCTNGF.....

Or am I missing the point here?

Saint John wrote:they should release these ASAP. I want to hear what music got suppressed by his nodeness.

I doubt there was anything suppressed. From all accounts Smith and Valory barely made any positive contributions at all to the project and were unwilling to join in an experimental process which - let's not forget - Schon and Cain began in the first place in 1985.

Matthew wrote:They're on the album. Positive Touch...Eyes of a Woman...and WCTNGF.....

Ironically, I like all 3 of those songs a lot.

Matthew wrote:

bluejeangirl76 wrote:
And if there are tracks from Radio with Smith on them laying around, damn it, I WANT to hear them.

They're on the album. Positive Touch...Eyes of a Woman...and WCTNGF.....

Or am I missing the point here?

I know he drummed on those... my point was if there are tracks that were scrapped (as alluded to here) that are laying around some vault, or Perry's broom closet, I want to hear them.

As far as unreleased ROR stuff, I think this is all we have.

With A Tear with vocals - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sshSYwBcVS8

JeremyP wrote:As far as unreleased ROR stuff, I think this is all we have.

With A Tear with vocals - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sshSYwBcVS8

I love that one.

But someone check under Perry's kitchen sink. I'd bet my ta-tas there's more.
Seriously. Look behind the Ajax.

bluejeangirl76 wrote:

Matthew wrote:

bluejeangirl76 wrote:
And if there are tracks from Radio with Smith on them laying around, damn it, I WANT to hear them.

They're on the album. Positive Touch...Eyes of a Woman...and WCTNGF.....

Or am I missing the point here?

I know he drummed on those... my point was if there are tracks that were scrapped (as alluded to here) that are laying around some vault, or Perry's broom closet, I want to hear them.

Okay...see what you mean. I guess the question is...are they that different from the Londin tracks? I doubt it because Schon and Cain were using drum machines and new keyboard technology right at the start of the writing process and before Perry joined the project. Smith was never given an opportunity to demonstrate his virtuoso playing and that's partly why the early sessions went so badly.

So it's not as though Schon, Cain, Valory and Smith were playing in the traditional style until Perry came along and scrapped the recordings, as is often made out here.

What I'd love to hear are the various initial takes of Perry's vocals on - say - HTG, where by all accounts he was totally obsessed with getting it right. There must have been well over 30 alternate takes of that song alone. Also - Schon's solos are so perfectly honed on this record there must have been various alternate solos too before they settled on the final cut as it were.