MR

i figure we should give some unsolicited advice for journey on improvements/adjustments they need to make for their upcoming 2009 tour compared to their recent tour. i have some.

...improve pineda's diction.
i keep hearing him say "hue" instead of "you".
his "T"s are a bit over pronounced.
he has a habit of saying "ah" in some words like "night-ah", "girl-ah"

...keep arnel on the stage floor.
the dude is like a michael jordan with a mic. haha. he ends up gasping for air on some songs because of jumpin around. he got lucky last tour without injuring himself.

...sing more of their new songs.
...take longer breaks in between shows.

...give pineda acting lessons.

how about you guys?
do y'all have some advice for journey?

Schon needs to lay off the botox!

Arianddu wrote:Schon needs to lay off the botox!

Don't be rude on Christmas.

I agree with ESC's points. The diction could use a bit of improvement and taking some of the air out of Air-Nel wouldn't hurt. I would also like to see Journey play more new songs and ease up a bit on the touring schedule.

All things considered, I'd give the guys a B+ for the last tour. I saw them 8 times and 6 of the 8 shows were pretty amazing. The New York State Fair stands out the most to me. The place was packed and the sound was absolutely perfect. Cleveland was a great show as well and so was Charlotte. Chicago was probably the show that had the worst sound, but I'm not surprised...the venue stinks. It was still a great thrill to see 26,000 people nearly packing a venue that only Buffett and Dave Mathews sell out. The head of security said that considering the weather it was one of the venue's most impressive turnouts in years! To Journey, old friends and a lot of new ones, thanks for the memories!

Merry Christmas to all.

-Dan

It looks to me like they'll definately ease up on the touring schedule since I'm betting the AP solo tour is the only tour the US will get. I'm not betting on a new album either.

The writing is on the wall on this one.

Merry Chrismas to Everyone.

RocknRoll wrote:It looks to me like they'll definately ease up on the touring schedule since I'm betting the AP solo tour is the only tour the US will get.

Per Arnel this is incorrect. The U.S. will get 20 to 30 shows.

RocknRoll wrote: I guess it's OK for AP to do 3 shows in a row when it's not Journey.

It's a split bill and the fact that he'll be singing his own songs gives me absolutely no worries.

RocknRoll wrote:I'm not betting on a new album either.

And if that's the case, so what? How many bands pump out an album 2 years in a row? Late 2009 or early-mid 2010 would work for me!!!

Dan - I would absolutely love to be proved wrong. Right now, I just don't have a good feeling about the future.

Have a great Christmas!

I'm not sure the diction issues will ever work themselves out. It's VERY difficult for an adult to learn how to annunciate words completely differently than they always have. Sure, it can be done, with endless hours of work, but it's tough. Have you ever called a customer service number for any company and ended up at a call center in The Phiilipines or India? It's definitely a challenge. All in all I think Arnel has done a reasonable job for a guy who is singing in a language that isn't his native tongue.

As for the Arnel solo tour...Am I the only one who finds this beyond bizarre? This guy wasn't doing any solo tours when he was in his cover band, and now that he has his 15 minutes of fame, he's turning into Steve Perry? Truly odd stuff.

Enigma869 wrote:As for the Arnel solo tour...Am I the only one who finds this beyond bizarre?

NO

Enigma869 wrote:Am I the only one who finds this beyond bizarre?

I'm pretty sure that he's only doing it to raise money for the AP Foundation. Otherwise, yes, I do find it odd.

Does Arnel have ANY original material at all or is he performing all cover stuff? I don't know much about his writing prowess or if that's even an area he has explored. I assume it's all cover material, which makes it even more odd, considering he's a virtual unkown in the music industry.

AP does have several CD's out. I know he has his solo CD and than one with the ZOO. He has writing credits on both, so he can sing music from those, except no one probably knows the songs.

It looks like this tour is targeted for Filipino audiences.

Enigma869 wrote:Does Arnel have ANY original material at all or is he performing all cover stuff? I don't know much about his writing prowess or if that's even an area he has explored. I assume it's all cover material, which makes it even more odd, considering he's a virtual unkown in the music industry.

I posted this in the "Arnel mini-tour" thread:

Arnel is doing a 6 show tour with a fellow Pinoy by the name of Lani Misalucha. They are playing January 30th in Anaheim, Jabuary 31st in San Jose, February 1st in San Diego, February 6th in Chicago and February 8th in New Jersey. I spoke to him in the shout box and he said that he doesn't think he'll be playing any Journey songs, but he will be checking to see if he can do one if he so chooses. Just a little FYI.

But to answer your question I would think he'll be playing originals. He has tons of them from all of the various bands he was in and some of the ballads are really good. I haven't heard too many rockers though.

Saint John wrote:

RocknRoll wrote: I guess it's OK for AP to do 3 shows in a row when it's not Journey.

It's a split bill and the fact that he'll be singing his own songs gives me absolutely no worries.

Wasn't last year's tour a split bill?

RocknRoll wrote:

Saint John wrote:

RocknRoll wrote: I guess it's OK for AP to do 3 shows in a row when it's not Journey.

It's a split bill and the fact that he'll be singing his own songs gives me absolutely no worries.

Wasn't last year's tour a split bill?

True, but minus the Journey catalog, the wear and tear on his voice will be minimal...if any. I expect a show comprised mainly of ballads and maybe a few mid-tempo numbers. Arnel will get through this with no problem. He's bionic.

Saint John wrote:

Arianddu wrote:Schon needs to lay off the botox!

Don't be rude on Christmas.

I'm not saying it to be rude or take a cheap shot - I honestly think Neal needs to quit using botox.

I've never seen the band play live, but I've watched a hell of a lot of boots and concert recordings on YouTube. Neal's passion floods his music without doubt, and when you see the earlier clips, that passion is reflected in his face. In the recent ones, his face is an emotionless plastic mask because it's partially paralysed from the botox. It jars with me, every time I see it. I'll freely admit I loathe the way botox makes people look, and I'd prefer to see Neal's laughing, full-body grin and a face with wrinkles that he earned, rather than a smooth face that looks like the Joker when he tries to smile.

Pure and simple, the man doesn't need it, and I wish he'd quit using it.

Arianddu wrote:

Saint John wrote:

Arianddu wrote:Schon needs to lay off the botox!

Don't be rude on Christmas.

I'm not saying it to be rude or take a cheap shot - I honestly think Neal needs to quit using botox.

I've never seen the band play live, but I've watched a hell of a lot of boots and concert recordings on YouTube. Neal's passion floods his music without doubt, and when you see the earlier clips, that passion is reflected in his face. In the recent ones, his face is an emotionless plastic mask because it's partially paralysed from the botox. It jars with me, every time I see it. I'll freely admit I loathe the way botox makes people look, and I'd prefer to see Neal's laughing, full-body grin and a face with wrinkles that he earned, rather than a smooth face that looks like the Joker when he tries to smile.

Pure and simple, the man doesn't need it, and I wish he'd quit using it.

Fair enough. Good points.

what about the ticket price, it could use a bit of a cut. doesnt it?

Esc wrote:what about the ticket price, it could use a bit of a cut. doesnt it?

Honestly, I thought the tickets were fair value. $60 for Journey, $40 for Heart and $25 for Cheap Trick (all hypothetical of course). And don't forget, they practically gave away the lawn seats. Chicago had 4 for $75.

Saint John wrote:

Esc wrote:what about the ticket price, it could use a bit of a cut. doesnt it?

Honestly, I thought the tickets were fair value. $60 for Journey, $40 for Heart and $25 for Cheap Trick (all hypothetical of course). And don't forget, they practically gave away the lawn seats. Chicago had 4 for $75.

i guess so...but come to think of it, the price might even come higher depending on which band they'll be billing with.
and SJ, do you think its a good time for a band like Journey to tour the states considering the recession and all?

Esc wrote:SJ, do you think its a good time for a band like Journey to tour the states considering the recession and all?

I got into an argument with a friend about this exact same thing. I think concerts are recession-proof. It's the hot spot vacation places that will hurt. Concerts are local and people will more likely go to a concert than they will on a vacation. I'd guess that if Journey hits the big markets they'll see no dip in attendance if the bill is good, and I suspect it will be.

Saint John wrote:

Esc wrote:SJ, do you think its a good time for a band like Journey to tour the states considering the recession and all?

I got into an argument with a friend about this exact same thing. I think concerts are recession-proof. It's the hot spot vacation places that will hurt. Concerts are local and people will more likely go to a concert than they will on a vacation. I'd guess that if Journey hits the big markets they'll see no dip in attendance if the bill is good, and I suspect it will be.

I disagree....concerts by dinosaur bands like Journey, cheap trick, van halen, and other over the hill acts with over the rainbow ticket prices are the FIRST things I will be striking from my budget in 2009.

Ticket prices have gotten SO rediculous, that I had been scaling back on concert attendance already. To spend 100 bucks on a fucking act, where I used to spend 20-40 a few years ago is ludicrous. fucking ludicrous.

I've seen all of these artists in their prime. To see an artist on the way down, way out....is a waste of money. I'd rather spend my money on artists that are in the middle of their growth period....not doing their retro/nostalgia show. If anyone out there who has seen van halen between 86-94 and can still point to a show on the 2004 VH reunion with Hagar as something that is better than any of the shows during 86-94, they're fucking smoking crack. Same goes for Journey. I've seen this racket before...with a far better singer....to spend 5 times the amount of cash I spent when I saw them with the far better singer, they'd better have girls in all the aisles ready to suck off the men as they get to their seats....

Changed my mind on my original post. Sometimes it's better to just leave it alone.

OOPS. Too Late

strangegrey wrote:

Saint John wrote:

Esc wrote:SJ, do you think its a good time for a band like Journey to tour the states considering the recession and all?

I got into an argument with a friend about this exact same thing. I think concerts are recession-proof. It's the hot spot vacation places that will hurt. Concerts are local and people will more likely go to a concert than they will on a vacation. I'd guess that if Journey hits the big markets they'll see no dip in attendance if the bill is good, and I suspect it will be.

I disagree....concerts by dinosaur bands like Journey, cheap trick, van halen, and other over the hill acts with over the rainbow ticket prices are the FIRST things I will be striking from my budget in 2009.

Ticket prices have gotten SO rediculous, that I had been scaling back on concert attendance already. To spend 100 bucks on a fucking act, where I used to spend 20-40 a few years ago is ludicrous. fucking ludicrous.

I've seen all of these artists in their prime. To see an artist on the way down, way out....is a waste of money. I'd rather spend my money on artists that are in the middle of their growth period....not doing their retro/nostalgia show. If anyone out there who has seen van halen between 86-94 and can still point to a show on the 2004 VH reunion with Hagar as something that is better than any of the shows during 86-94, they're fucking smoking crack. Same goes for Journey. I've seen this racket before...with a far better singer....to spend 5 times the amount of cash I spent when I saw them with the far better singer, they'd better have girls in all the aisles ready to suck off the men as they get to their seats....

lol...isn't this coming from the same guy that said they'd be a colossal flop last year?

RocknRoll wrote:Here are a few items starting with the present on why I am not optimistic for a Journey tour with AP in the US. I strongly suspect most of this is probably due to Arnel's management in PI attempting to renegotiate his contract with Journey. This is pure speculation on my part but it fits with the rumors coming out of the Pacific.

• No Holiday message from the band members of “Journey.”
• No announcement on Revelation being certified Platinum from “Journey.”
• Arnel seemed surprised on his SB that Revelation was finally certified. Probably means all communications are currently being handled by attorneys. (Contract?)
• No recent references to Journey in AP’s latest SB conversations outside of singing Journey songs.
• Solo tour set up with fellow Filipino.
• Asian tour continues to be pushed back, with no solid dates yet.
• Increased solo appearances by AP on Filipino TV.
• When did AP cease mentioning Revelation?
• No mention of Journey etc on AP’s Holiday message posted about a month ago. (I found this pretty interesting and it’s what originally got me thinking; although it is an AP only website not a Journey site so maybe nothing there)

http://arnelpineda.ning.com/

I'm sure many can rip holes in this little analysis and feel free to rip it to shreds. It's just when I add them all up, I'm definitely not encouraged. Like I said before, I would love someone to convince me I'm wrong.

Some intriguing points for sure. But I think they're just enjoying some time off. That tour kicked their asses. They're not 30 anymore.

RocknRoll wrote:Here are a few items starting with the present on why I am not optimistic for a Journey tour with AP in the US. I strongly suspect most of this is probably due to Arnel's management in PI attempting to renegotiate his contract with Journey. This is pure speculation on my part but it fits with the rumors coming out of the Pacific.

• No Holiday message from the band members of “Journey.”
• No announcement on Revelation being certified Platinum from “Journey.”
• Arnel seemed surprised on his SB that Revelation was finally certified. Probably means all communications are currently being handled by attorneys. (Contract?)
• No recent references to Journey in AP’s latest SB conversations outside of singing Journey songs.
• Solo tour set up with fellow Filipino.
• Asian tour continues to be pushed back, with no solid dates yet.
• Increased solo appearances by AP on Filipino TV.
• When did AP cease mentioning Revelation?
• No mention of Journey etc on AP’s Holiday message posted about a month ago. (I found this pretty interesting and it’s what originally got me thinking; although it is an AP only website not a Journey site so maybe nothing there)

http://arnelpineda.ning.com/

I'm sure many can rip holes in this little analysis and feel free to rip it to shreds. It's just when I add them all up, I'm definitely not encouraged. Like I said before, I would love someone to convince me I'm wrong.

I seem to remember AP's manager saying that he signed a 3 year contract when they hired him on. Give or take. Doubt there are any contract issues. He's making more money than he ever has in his life, and I think he's smart enough to know how that is happening. I really don't look at his solo appearances as anything more than him just out having fun during some down time. It's not like the band has a substantial history of over communicating to their fans. They communicate when they have something to sell, not many other times, and certainly not during their down time. Seems pretty consistent to me.

Pay for Friga ssex change.Get rid of that thin crooked penis

The biggest thing to happen to Arnel is recognition at home. His ride with Journey is just a catalyst to get him on a regular OPM Tour. Lani's gigs will play to crowds of 1,000 to 1,500 outside of Vegas and San Jose, the crowds will be 90% Filipino. If things go well, Arnel can earn from 50k to 100k a year going this route. He could tour like this for 20 years and live very well back home. Let's be honest here. Lea Salonga is an international star. Her name is known in London and New York because of her work on Broadway and Disney. When she tried to launch a music career here though she got nowhere. All the accolades and her Tony award didn't help her at all on the U.S, music scene. Why? Because of the genre she sings in. Light pop went away at the end of 70's here but look at Lea's, Lani's, or Regine's setlist. It's aimed at the crowds that sell out Manilow's shows and Tony Orlando concerts. The difference is the pinoy stars don't have the catalog that Barry and others do so the fans they play to will be more homegrown.
This is the circuit Arnel will be playing if things turn out right. We should all hope it does if we like the guy because this is his chance for financial security at home. Anyone thinking he or Journey are going to duplicate the monetary success of Revelation are fooling themself. That album was the product of the perfect storm (pricing, sad boy story, walmart packaging,etc.). The sooner Arnel gets out on his own the better. He really needs to release somthing at home separate from Journey because that boat isn't going to sail for much longer.
Now I'm not a hater but I'm not a Pollyanna either. Arnel needs to do what is best for him, just like Jon and Neal would do.
I have a friend who has probably sold a million records in the P.I. She always thought she would make it here, but it never happened. She lives very comfortably now, as her husband is in a Medical proffession. At her best , her salary was about the same as mine or a little more, huge money in the P.I. but middle class here in the states. After 20 years she realised it is two different markets and stop trying to make something happen that won't. She is very happy now in her life.
I want the same for Arnel. Don't be greedy, thinking ther is another big payday just around the corner. Take what you have and run with it. The guys in Journey are your coworkers, not your friends or your band of brothers as has been used with their other singers. Use this job to secure yourself a better job. Maybe it won't be better money wise but longevity wise and health wise, you may find a comfortable place working on your own.

Onestepper wrote:I seem to remember AP's manager saying that he signed a 3 year contract when they hired him on. Give or take. Doubt there are any contract issues.

I believe you can attempt to renegotiate any contract particularly if you think you have some leaverage, you may not succeed but you can try. Also, there may well be a clause in the contract that allows renegotiation.

Onestepper wrote:He's making more money than he ever has in his life, and I think he's smart enough to know how that is happening. I really don't look at his solo appearances as anything more than him just out having fun during some down time.

Well I sure hope he now considers it fun (since he apparently didn't last summer) traveling 25.0K+ miles or so across the Pacific and the entire US, maddening airport delays, hotels, bad roads and freezing temps. Only the hardiest US bands seem to tour in the winter and let's not forget the rehearsals. Have you ever been to Chicago in Feb? It ain't pretty.

Onestepper wrote: It's not like the band has a substantial history of over communicating to their fans. They communicate when they have something to sell, not many other times, and certainly not during their down time. Seems pretty consistent to me.

I seem to remember a Holiday message pretty much every year Augeri was in the band. Also, the rest of the band band wasn't planning on Nov/Dec being a down time.

Saint John wrote:lol...isn't this coming from the same guy that said they'd be a colossal flop last year?

I dunno, I wouldn't exactly call 600k units sold a massive success either...without the sympathy vote they expertly solicited this past year, I doubt they would have gotten that far. If they can pull off a second album, it's going to be truly telling to see how it does. I wouldn't set your hopes too high...

Gunbot wrote:The biggest thing to happen to Arnel is recognition at home. His ride with Journey is just a catalyst to get him on a regular OPM Tour. Lani's gigs will play to crowds of 1,000 to 1,500 outside of Vegas and San Jose, the crowds will be 90% Filipino. If things go well, Arnel can earn from 50k to 100k a year going this route. He could tour like this for 20 years and live very well back home. Let's be honest here. Lea Salonga is an international star. Her name is known in London and New York because of her work on Broadway and Disney. When she tried to launch a music career here though she got nowhere. All the accolades and her Tony award didn't help her at all on the U.S, music scene. Why? Because of the genre she sings in. Light pop went away at the end of 70's here but look at Lea's, Lani's, or Regine's setlist. It's aimed at the crowds that sell out Manilow's shows and Tony Orlando concerts. The difference is the pinoy stars don't have the catalog that Barry and others do so the fans they play to will be more homegrown.
This is the circuit Arnel will be playing if things turn out right. We should all hope it does if we like the guy because this is his chance for financial security at home. Anyone thinking he or Journey are going to duplicate the monetary success of Revelation are fooling themself. That album was the product of the perfect storm (pricing, sad boy story, walmart packaging,etc.). The sooner Arnel gets out on his own the better. He really needs to release somthing at home separate from Journey because that boat isn't going to sail for much longer.
Now I'm not a hater but I'm not a Pollyanna either. Arnel needs to do what is best for him, just like Jon and Neal would do.
I have a friend who has probably sold a million records in the P.I. She always thought she would make it here, but it never happened. She lives very comfortably now, as her husband is in a Medical proffession. At her best , her salary was about the same as mine or a little more, huge money in the P.I. but middle class here in the states. After 20 years she realised it is two different markets and stop trying to make something happen that won't. She is very happy now in her life.
I want the same for Arnel. Don't be greedy, thinking ther is another big payday just around the corner. Take what you have and run with it. The guys in Journey are your coworkers, not your friends or your band of brothers as has been used with their other singers. Use this job to secure yourself a better job. Maybe it won't be better money wise but longevity wise and health wise, you may find a comfortable place working on your own.

So you think Arnel should cut the ties and get out now?

He's doing a great job with Journey and I do understand his need to make a name for himself as he has a lot more years to perform. While it may not be the same big payday as 2008, 2009 looks like it could still be a good year. More money and more name recognition. I'm definitely not in favor of AP doing solo tours while he is in the band, since that historically has spelled the end. Why not wait untill the Journey is done, which is probably only a year or two at best? The band then disbands with AP as the lead singer and he keeps his reputation as Journey's lead singer with the blessings of the band. Win/Win

I know I'd be very disappointed not seeing the band in 2009.