MR

Rolie left in '80 due to burnout from traveling and possibly (it's been speculated) issues regarding Steve and his status as far as being relegated to backup singer. And he didn't seem to have much success in the '80s, with some success in the '90s with Storm. Do you think in hindsight he wishes he had hung on for a few more years, even if not just from a financial security standpoint? Though, I'm sure he made great money before he left and was pretty much set financially. Has he ever discussed that in interviews? Do you think he has any regrets?

I don't think so. He seems happy enough with his style of music, and even appears to to be okay with Santana as he was inducted into the HOF with them. I think that he might not have liked Perry coming out of retirement just long enough put an end the possibility of a new Journey with Kevin Chalfant, but that was just as much Neal's fault for dumping them to jump back on the gravy train. After that happened, I can't imagine Rolie ever doing work with Neal Again unless it's a small project.

Gunbot wrote:I don't think so. He seems happy enough with his style of music, and even appears to to be okay with Santana as he was inducted into the HOF with them. I think that he might not have liked Perry coming out of retirement just long enough put an end the possibility of a new Journey with Kevin Chalfant, but that was just as much Neal's fault for dumping them to jump back on the gravy train.

I've always wondered, how were they going to do it with two keyboardists - Jonathan and Gregg? What would the setup have been?

Gunbot wrote:that was just as much Neal's fault for dumping them to jump back on the gravy train.

Bullshit!!! You can't honestly believe that Neal had any other choice than to say yes to one of the most anticipated reunions ever. Neal would have been forever demonized by Journey fans had he held on to the Rolie/Chalfant incarnation. He made the only move he could. Everyone here would still be bitching that he put Steve Perry into retirement. But he let it play out and let Steve retire himself. Advantage-Neal.

Jana wrote:

Gunbot wrote:I don't think so. He seems happy enough with his style of music, and even appears to to be okay with Santana as he was inducted into the HOF with them. I think that he might not have liked Perry coming out of retirement just long enough put an end the possibility of a new Journey with Kevin Chalfant, but that was just as much Neal's fault for dumping them to jump back on the gravy train.

I've always wondered, how were they going to do it with two keyboardists - Jonathan and Gregg? What would the setup have been?

I don't know if Jon would have been part of that. He seems to like playing Rhythm guitar though so I think it would have worked itself out.

They would probably be closer to their rock roots with a little bit of blues if they went in that direction, instead of the quasi rock/pop act that they have now become.

I'm a big fan of the ball crusher era (Infinity, Evolution, Departure and Captured) so I may be bias.

Saint John wrote:Bullshit!!! You can't honestly believe that Neal had any other choice than to say yes to one of the most anticipated reunions ever. Neal would have been forever demonized by Journey fans had he held on to the Rolie/Chalfant incarnation. He made the only move he could. Everyone here would still be bitching that he put Steve Perry into retirement. But he let it play out and let Steve retire himself. Advantage-Neal.

Yes and No.
He might receive some flack from the outset, but Perry's record of inactivity would speak volumes (exactly as it does now).
In fact, even after TBF laid plain that Perry had no intention of touring, the idea of a new Journey singer was STILL treated hostilely by many.
By not going with Chalfant in '95, all they did is postpone the inevitable.

On a micro fan level, adding Rolie would've quelled gripes that the tour was just about money.
As someone who could afford to walk away from Journey right when they were taking flight, Rolie's return would've signified integrity and art.
Meanwhile, Chalfant had residual street cred after The Storm, and would've had the publicity war machine of Herbie Herbert to ensure audiences accepted him - whether they were ready or not.

Saint John wrote:

Gunbot wrote:that was just as much Neal's fault for dumping them to jump back on the gravy train.

Bullshit!!! You can't honestly believe that Neal had any other choice than to say yes to one of the most anticipated reunions ever. Neal would have been forever demonized by Journey fans had he held on to the Rolie/Chalfant incarnation. He made the only move he could. Everyone here would still be bitching that he put Steve Perry into retirement. But he let it play out and let Steve retire himself. Advantage-Neal.

In the end, half of them still do blame Neal but have also thrown Cain into the mix, so it's a wash. I think Herbie would have found a way to minimize any bad publicity generated or turn the tables on Perry.

Saint John wrote:

Gunbot wrote:that was just as much Neal's fault for dumping them to jump back on the gravy train.

Bullshit!!! You can't honestly believe that Neal had any other choice than to say yes to one of the most anticipated reunions ever. Neal would have been forever demonized by Journey fans had he held on to the Rolie/Chalfant incarnation. He made the only move he could. Everyone here would still be bitching that he put Steve Perry into retirement. But he let it play out and let Steve retire himself. Advantage-Neal.

Somehow I knew you were going to enter this thread with your mouth firmly and juicily encasing Neal's dick.

Gunbot wrote: I think Herbie would have found a way to minimize any bad publicity generated or turn the tables on Perry.

That's why Perry made sure he was the first to go in 96. That way, when he dismantled Journey, there would be no one in place to put them back together. But just like all of his decisions from 86 on, he was wrong.

Jana wrote:I've always wondered, how were they going to do it with two keyboardists - Jonathan and Gregg? What would the setup have been?

First off, two keybardists, perhaps one on piano and the other on organ on some songs, and then maybe one on piano/synth and one on rhythm guitar would work. Roy Bittan and the Late Danny Federici did it marvelously with E Street, and it gives the music a real full sound, compared to a lone key.

As to your question, or title, it is not trivia, it is one of opinion. There won't be a correct answer here. Three guys really know their stuff in this era, and that is TNC, Jrnyman28 and Monker. Monker's answer will be interesting.

Jana wrote:Rolie left in '80 due to burnout from traveling and possibly (it's been speculated) issues regarding Steve and his status as far as being relegated to backup singer. And he didn't seem to have much success in the '80s, with some success in the '90s with Storm. Do you think in hindsight he wishes he had hung on for a few more years, even if not just from a financial security standpoint? Though, I'm sure he made great money before he left and was pretty much set financially. Has he ever discussed that in interviews? Do you think he has any regrets?

ROLIE ERA with PERRY AND SCHON were best MUSIC WISE in the Journey camp period... and so to this day I think Rolie is proud of what he accomplished in Journey... so as 20/20 is always easier and speculation is more fun with the fans... my guess is Gregg loves to stay low and just do his work which now is playing the true music he loves... Santana... with his own band... this is JUST MY OPINION.. the 80s were great with CAIN... it was just more POP and ROCK and ballads... where Rolie era just had the old ALBUMB ORIENTED ROCK which was popular back in the day...


Rick

Saint John wrote:

Gunbot wrote: I think Herbie would have found a way to minimize any bad publicity generated or turn the tables on Perry.

That's why Perry made sure he was the first to go in 96. That way, when he dismantled Journey, there would be no one in place to put them back together.

You make him sound like when Tom would have those chalkboard blueprints with elaborate schemes to try and catch Jerry.

Rolie and Cain playing together in Journey would be freaking amaziiiiiiiiing.

ProgRocker53 wrote:Rolie and Cain playing together in Journey would be freaking amaziiiiiiiiing.

Proggie, no offense, but Cain can't sound good in a rock sound. He automatically brings the tingy, twinkletoeing fluttery crapo that ruins it. Go listen to some Departure tour boots..that's the last time this band really "rocked."

Rockindeano wrote:

ProgRocker53 wrote:Rolie and Cain playing together in Journey would be freaking amaziiiiiiiiing.

Proggie, no offense, but Cain can't sound good in a rock sound. He automatically brings the tingy, twinkletoeing fluttery crapo that ruins it. Go listen to some Departure tour boots..that's the last time this band really "rocked."

Frontiers sounds pretty fucking good to me...as does Escape.

bluejeangirl76 wrote:

Saint John wrote:

Gunbot wrote:that was just as much Neal's fault for dumping them to jump back on the gravy train.

Bullshit!!! You can't honestly believe that Neal had any other choice than to say yes to one of the most anticipated reunions ever. Neal would have been forever demonized by Journey fans had he held on to the Rolie/Chalfant incarnation. He made the only move he could. Everyone here would still be bitching that he put Steve Perry into retirement. But he let it play out and let Steve retire himself. Advantage-Neal.

Somehow I knew you were going to enter this thread with your mouth firmly and juicily encasing Neal's dick.

This coming from the person who has her head so far up Perry's nostrils you could tickle his fucking frontal lobe.

It would be great if Rolie came on this next tour, even just the U.S. leg, and performed for old time's sake. What a thrill it would be. Of course, when they start up the ROR pop songs, he might walk off the stage

Jana wrote:It would be great if Rolie came on this next tour, even just the U.S. leg, and performed for old time's sake. What a thrill it would be. Of course, when they start up the ROR pop songs, he might walk off the stage

See what YOU started?

Rockindeano wrote:

ProgRocker53 wrote:Rolie and Cain playing together in Journey would be freaking amaziiiiiiiiing.

Proggie, no offense, but Cain can't sound good in a rock sound. He automatically brings the tingy, twinkletoeing fluttery crapo that ruins it. Go listen to some Departure tour boots..that's the last time this band really "rocked."

DAMN right there..

Saint John wrote:

Gunbot wrote:that was just as much Neal's fault for dumping them to jump back on the gravy train.

Bullshit!!! You can't honestly believe that Neal had any other choice than to say yes to one of the most anticipated reunions ever.

Neal once again chose the MONEY...for good or bad he went with the dollars instead of integrity. At least he is consistent. He has sided with Perry over Aynsley, Gregg, Smitty and Ross, Gregg and Kevin, Herbie, and JSS (well, that is Perry sound, not really Perry).

Saint John wrote:Neal would have been forever demonized by Journey fans had he held on to the Rolie/Chalfant incarnation.

I don't believe that. In fact, integrity would go a LONG way. As TNC pointed out, Neal (Journey) has been villified for "replacing" Perry anyway!

Saint John wrote:He made the only move he could.

I am sure the pressure from Sony was considerable.

Saint John wrote: Everyone here would still be bitching that he put Steve Perry into retirement. But he let it play out and let Steve retire himself. Advantage-Neal.

"Half" the fans still believe it is Neal's fault that Perry is not in Journey...

Gunbot wrote:I don't know if Jon would have been part of that. He seems to like playing Rhythm guitar though so I think it would have worked itself out.

They would probably be closer to their rock roots with a little bit of blues if they went in that direction, instead of the quasi rock/pop act that they have now become.

I'm a big fan of the ball crusher era (Infinity, Evolution, Departure and Captured) so I may be bias.

I often wondered how Cain felt about it, but seeing the amount of "pull" he has in Journey he MUST have been okay with it. The rest of your post is music to my ears!!

When I look back at the possibilities with Gregg and Kevin I get rather angry with Neal for letting Perry back in. Sure, it's hindsight. Seeing what went down with Perry makes it soo much worse and I wonder if Neal ever kicks himself for that decision. But, I truly enjoyed Steve Augeri's tenure so I feel Journey recovered nicely in some respects. But the what-if's just kill me on this one...

Rockindeano wrote:

Jana wrote:I've always wondered, how were they going to do it with two keyboardists - Jonathan and Gregg? What would the setup have been?

First off, two keybardists, perhaps one on piano and the other on organ on some songs, and then maybe one on piano/synth and one on rhythm guitar would work. Roy Bittan and the Late Danny Federici did it marvelously with E Street, and it gives the music a real full sound, compared to a lone key.

As to your question, or title, it is not trivia, it is one of opinion. There won't be a correct answer here. Three guys really know their stuff in this era, and that is TNC, Jrnyman28 and Monker. Monker's answer will be interesting.

Great post Deano, and thanks for the nod. It's been awhile.

Rockindeano wrote:

ProgRocker53 wrote:Rolie and Cain playing together in Journey would be freaking amaziiiiiiiiing.

Proggie, no offense, but Cain can't sound good in a rock sound. He automatically brings the tingy, twinkletoeing fluttery crapo that ruins it. Go listen to some Departure tour boots..that's the last time this band really "rocked."

But there would be a good balance between the "rock" and the "commercial"....best of both worlds!

jrnyman28 wrote:Neal once again chose the MONEY...for good or bad he went with the dollars instead of integrity.

How so? This is what the fans desperately wanted, the label wanted, and the music world in general wanted.

jrnyman28 wrote:"Half" the fans still believe it is Neal's fault that Perry is not in Journey...

Better half than all!!!

Saint John wrote:

bluejeangirl76 wrote:

Saint John wrote:

Gunbot wrote:that was just as much Neal's fault for dumping them to jump back on the gravy train.

Bullshit!!! You can't honestly believe that Neal had any other choice than to say yes to one of the most anticipated reunions ever. Neal would have been forever demonized by Journey fans had he held on to the Rolie/Chalfant incarnation. He made the only move he could. Everyone here would still be bitching that he put Steve Perry into retirement. But he let it play out and let Steve retire himself. Advantage-Neal.

Somehow I knew you were going to enter this thread with your mouth firmly and juicily encasing Neal's dick.

This coming from the person who has her head so far up Perry's nostrils you could tickle his fucking frontal lobe.

No, sir, I don't. Regardless of the impression my avatar may give, I'm not one of those people, and you have heard my comments in person, so that don't fly, mon frere.

Saint John wrote:

jrnyman28 wrote:Neal once again chose the MONEY...for good or bad he went with the dollars instead of integrity.

How so? This is what the fans desperately wanted, the label wanted, and the music world in general wanted.

Seems the answer is in your post. Neal went with what the fans and label wanted. Not necessarily what HE wanted...

bluejeangirl76 wrote:
No, sir, I don't. Regardless of the impression my avatar may give, I'm not one of those people, and you have heard my comments in person, so that don't fly, mon frere.

You're fuckin weird.

Rockindeano wrote:

bluejeangirl76 wrote:
No, sir, I don't. Regardless of the impression my avatar may give, I'm not one of those people, and you have heard my comments in person, so that don't fly, mon frere.

You're fuckin weird.

Hi! Get bent!

It sounds like Neal is taking the blame for a few things that weren't his fault when he has enough mistakes
to take credit for

He didn't side with SP over Aynsley and Rolie - according to Herbie Herbert the entire band
made the decision to fire Aynsley because they were tired of having to book it in the middle of the night when
their drummer was about to get busted with underage girls in his room. He also said that Rolie left because
he had been on the road for years, wanted to focus on a family, and dealing with SP wasn't worth it. He chose to
leave and picked his own successor - if there had been a "it's him or me" ultimatum, Herbie would have said so,
because it would have been one more thing to blame Steve Perry for.

I do agree that Neal and Jon should have stood up for Steve Smith and Ross Valory - that shows a lack of loyalty and
I'm not sure how they ever justified that. But it would seem that Smith and Valory were willing to forgive and forget
and rejoined the band, so why is it that over 20 years later people who weren't even involved aren't able to?

As for the decision to regroup with Steve Perry over a Chalfant/Rolie lineup being about money over artistic
integrity - are you kidding? It is rather easy to question that decision in hindsight, but quite frankly Neal was the
one who bore the responsibility of that decision and had the most to lose from making the wrong one. The reality
is that whether anyone likes it or not, Steve Perry is the X-factor in the success of Journey. Rolie is a wonderful
talent, but his style of music did not put the band on the radio and he still favours that Santana
sound. And Chalfant would just have been a singer who sounded like Perry - why would you choose a soundalike
when you can have the singer who was an integral part of making the magic happen? I don't think it was just
about money - it was about Journey's success and contributing to its legacy. Steve Perry came back and for the
first time in its history Journey was nominated for a Grammy. It's easy to say that SP never intended to tour, but
only he can answer that. And according to Steve Smith, he really did have hip replacement surgery. Based on
what he knew at the time, I think Neal made the best decision. What has happened since then is another matter
all together!

I would like to hear what happened during that time from Steve Smith. He has reason to resent Perry, but came
back to Journey because of him and left in 98 because "Journey without Steve Perry didn't interest him". Since
he's no longer part of the band, I think he might have the most honest and objective perspective.

bluejeangirl76 wrote:

Saint John wrote:

Gunbot wrote:that was just as much Neal's fault for dumping them to jump back on the gravy train.

Bullshit!!! You can't honestly believe that Neal had any other choice than to say yes to one of the most anticipated reunions ever. Neal would have been forever demonized by Journey fans had he held on to the Rolie/Chalfant incarnation. He made the only move he could. Everyone here would still be bitching that he put Steve Perry into retirement. But he let it play out and let Steve retire himself. Advantage-Neal.

Somehow I knew you were going to enter this thread with your mouth firmly and juicily encasing Neal's dick.

I'm so confused......I love it when you guys get your truss in a knot, but could someone please lay it out who is for and against tito, friga, frito, or whatever, and their real name beside their MR name, ie. is tito John, and Friga Neal? Help me out here, as I laugh my ass off at these rants, but they'd be funnier if I was connecting all the dots. And what do you call Perry?