All this talk about Arnel being done ETC....

[Liquid_Drummer]

WHy the fuck wont they just tune down a half fucking step ?? It would not be the end of the world !! If Arnel burns out it will probably be over for them.

[Gideon]

They're fucked^10 if they lose Arnel. I'm a fan of the institution of Journey, but their credibility has reached maximum capacity; they can't afford to lose him.

[Don]

I don't think he's done. But if he's going to be sick all the time, they may need to confine the groups performances to sterile areas like hospital wards. I don't believe Perry ever used the sick card until the 300th show or so, and they still got another 270 shows out of him after that before he became roadkill.

[Gideon]

I don't think he's done. But if he's going to be sick all the time, they may need to confine the groups performances to sterile areas like hospital wards. I don't believe Perry ever used the sick card until the 300th show or so, and they still got another 270 shows out of him after that before he became roadkill.

"Apples to oranges."

Perry was, what? 20-something? Arnel may look like he's eleven, but he's 40+ lol. Though I am curious how well Perry performed during FtLoSM's tour.

Simple solutions: don't do another 60-show summer tour, consider taking the songs down half a step, and make him quit the fucking solo outings.

[Ehwmatt]

They don't need to downtune, they just need Arnel to work on his diction/accent. Range wasn't the problem yesterday, delivery was.

[Gideon]

They don't need to downtune, they just need Arnel to work on his diction/accent. Range wasn't the problem yesterday, delivery was.

Voice coaches, then. I just don't see him moving to the States for a 3 year obligation. Hell, when was the contract signed? He might have only 1-2 left.

[Don]

I think the days of 60 show tours is over for Journey. Best to leave that to Bon Jovi and Springsteen who can actually sell out most of their dates and make a truckload of money in the process. The problem is Neal and Jon were used to the 100 shows a year, 90k too 100k crowds, during the band's hayday. I think they thought that Arnel was going to propel them back up there with Bon Jovi, U2, Aerosmith and other Stadium fillers. Revelation is a nice little album, but unless you reinvent yourself like Bon jovi and U2 did, you aren't going to equal your old successes, so don't burn out your singer trying.

[Gideon]

I think the days of 60 show tours is over for Journey. Best to leave that to Bon Jovi and Springsteen who can actually sell out most of their dates and make a truckload of money in the process. The problem is Neal and Jon were used to the 100 shows a year, 90k too 100k crowds, during the band's hayday. I think they thought that Arnel was going to propel them back up there with Bon Jovi, U2, Aerosmith and other Stadium fillers. Revelation is a nice little album, but unless you reinvent yourself like Bon jovi and U2 did, you aren't going to equal your old successes, so don't burn out your singer trying.

Jesus Christ, don't wish Bon Jovi's newfound success on Journey. Look what it cost them: Bon Jovi is a psuedo-rock band now; more country than anything. Neal should be on lead guitar, not steel guitar.

[amaron]

The Journey catalog kills singers.

[Gideon]

The Journey catalog kills singers.

I think that alone should be testament to why that band should be worshipped among musicians. They seem to be the veritable cream of the crop in all ways except bass.

Makes me wonder how respected/well known/talented Ross Valory is in the music world.

[Michigan Girl]

The Journey catalog kills singers.

I think that alone should be testament to why that band should be worshipped among musicians. They seem to be the veritable cream of the crop in all ways except bass.

Makes me wonder how respected/well known/talented Ross Valory is in the music world.

Ask CDL....she'll let you know!!!
You can reach her at.....
1~800~RossRocks

[Gideon]

The Journey catalog kills singers.

I think that alone should be testament to why that band should be worshipped among musicians. They seem to be the veritable cream of the crop in all ways except bass.

Makes me wonder how respected/well known/talented Ross Valory is in the music world.

Ask CDL....she'll let you know!!!
You can reach her at.....
1~800~RossRocks

From an objective source.

[Jubilee]

The Journey catalog kills singers.

I think that alone should be testament to why that band should be worshipped among musicians. They seem to be the veritable cream of the crop in all ways except bass.

Makes me wonder how respected/well known/talented Ross Valory is in the music world.

Easy does it now. The classic line-up already had an embarassement of riches with Perry on vocals, Schon on guitar, and Smitty on drums. All Ross really had to do was keep time, and stay the hell out of the way.

[brywool]

I think the days of 60 show tours is over for Journey. Best to leave that to Bon Jovi and Springsteen who can actually sell out most of their dates and make a truckload of money in the process. The problem is Neal and Jon were used to the 100 shows a year, 90k too 100k crowds, during the band's hayday. I think they thought that Arnel was going to propel them back up there with Bon Jovi, U2, Aerosmith and other Stadium fillers. Revelation is a nice little album, but unless you reinvent yourself like Bon jovi and U2 did, you aren't going to equal your old successes, so don't burn out your singer trying.

Jesus Christ, don't wish Bon Jovi's newfound success on Journey. Look what it cost them: Bon Jovi is a psuedo-rock band now; more country than anything. Neal should be on lead guitar, not steel guitar.

Bon Jovi's vocals SUCK live. Arnel had one wanky performance after being off for a few months. You guys make it sound like it's the end of the band. Talk about blowing things out of proportion. It wasn't as bad as that.

[Michigan Girl]

I think the days of 60 show tours is over for Journey. Best to leave that to Bon Jovi and Springsteen who can actually sell out most of their dates and make a truckload of money in the process. The problem is Neal and Jon were used to the 100 shows a year, 90k too 100k crowds, during the band's hayday. I think they thought that Arnel was going to propel them back up there with Bon Jovi, U2, Aerosmith and other Stadium fillers. Revelation is a nice little album, but unless you reinvent yourself like Bon jovi and U2 did, you aren't going to equal your old successes, so don't burn out your singer trying.

Jesus Christ, don't wish Bon Jovi's newfound success on Journey. Look what it cost them: Bon Jovi is a psuedo-rock band now; more country than anything. Neal should be on lead guitar, not steel guitar.

Bon Jovi's vocals SUCK live. Arnel had one wanky performance after being off for a few months. You guys make it sound like it's the end of the band. Talk about blowing things out of proportion. It wasn't as bad as that.

I was thinking the same thing, Bry......but Bon Jovi's not so bad live!!!

[Vladan]

The Journey catalog kills singers.

Well that's an interesting statement. This may sound crazy, but! I feel what kills singers, is trying to sing the Journey catalog the way Perry sang it in his prime, and if you don't sing it the way Perry sang it, then people may feel they are not doing justice to Journey, so amaron has a point there.

Although having said that, you take a look at Jeremy Hunsicker - he's been singing the Journey catalog for a long time, his voice still sounds amazing, if not getting better with age.

Some people can sing Journey and have no problems what so ever, as long as they don't over do it the way Perry did, or! if you have the vocal ability, power, endurance, you should be able to sing any song and never burn out your voice. John Farnhams catalog is just as difficult, if not harder to sing than Journey's, and John still sounds as good as he ever did. You have to know your limits as a singer, discipline, understanding your voice, and it's range as well.

[ProgRocker53]

Ross Valory's shining moments:

The self-titled debut
Escape album
"One More"

Stack those up against the rest of the band's shining moments. oiii.

I love Ross but the dude has some tough in-band competition.

[Michigan Girl]

Ross Valory's shining moments:

The self-titled debut
Escape album
"One More"

Stack those up against the rest of the band's shining moments. oiii.

I love Ross but the dude has some tough in-band competition.

[Gideon]

The Journey catalog kills singers.

I think that alone should be testament to why that band should be worshipped among musicians. They seem to be the veritable cream of the crop in all ways except bass.

Makes me wonder how respected/well known/talented Ross Valory is in the music world.

Easy does it now. The classic line-up already had an embarassement of riches with Perry on vocals, Schon on guitar, and Smitty on drums. All Ross really had to do was keep time, and stay the hell out of the way.

No, no, lol. You misinterpret.

We've all heard musicians and fans rant and rave about all of the Journey boys minus Ross. I love Ross; despite the fact that he looks like he died between '87 - '96, has a youthful energy to him and a great charisma. I just want to know if he's considered average with his instrument.

[Jana]

I think the days of 60 show tours is over for Journey. Best to leave that to Bon Jovi and Springsteen who can actually sell out most of their dates and make a truckload of money in the process. The problem is Neal and Jon were used to the 100 shows a year, 90k too 100k crowds, during the band's hayday. I think they thought that Arnel was going to propel them back up there with Bon Jovi, U2, Aerosmith and other Stadium fillers. Revelation is a nice little album, but unless you reinvent yourself like Bon jovi and U2 did, you aren't going to equal your old successes, so don't burn out your singer trying.

Jesus Christ, don't wish Bon Jovi's newfound success on Journey. Look what it cost them: Bon Jovi is a psuedo-rock band now; more country than anything. Neal should be on lead guitar, not steel guitar.

Bon Jovi's vocals SUCK live. Arnel had one wanky performance after being off for a few months. You guys make it sound like it's the end of the band. Talk about blowing things out of proportion. It wasn't as bad as that.

Amen, Brywool.

[ProgRocker53]

The Journey catalog kills singers.

I think that alone should be testament to why that band should be worshipped among musicians. They seem to be the veritable cream of the crop in all ways except bass.

Makes me wonder how respected/well known/talented Ross Valory is in the music world.

Easy does it now. The classic line-up already had an embarassement of riches with Perry on vocals, Schon on guitar, and Smitty on drums. All Ross really had to do was keep time, and stay the hell out of the way.

No, no, lol. You misinterpret.

We've all heard musicians and fans rant and rave about all of the Journey boys minus Ross. I love Ross; despite the fact that he looks like he died between '87 - '96, has a youthful energy to him and a great charisma. I just want to know if he's considered average with his instrument.

For the most part, it appears that's the consideration. He never truly established an unique style apart from what I've listed above and half the time he's barely in the mix. He's a great bassist in the fact that he stays out of the way and does his job, but average in the fact that he lacks individuality and flair.

[NealIsGod]

For the most part, it appears that's the consideration. He never truly established an unique style apart from what I've listed above and half the time he's barely in the mix. He's a great bassist in the fact that he stays out of the way and does his job, but average in the fact that he lacks individuality and flair.

Yeah, he needs to get a pair of polka dot spandex pants and gain 100 lbs.

[Ehwmatt]

The Journey catalog kills singers.

Well that's an interesting statement. This may sound crazy, but! I don't believe that is the case at all. What kills singers, is trying to sing the Journey catalog the way Perry sang it. Although having said that, you take a look at Jeremy Hunsicker - he's been singing the Journey catalog for a long time, his voice still sounds amazing, if not getting better with age.

Some people can sing Journey and have no problems what so ever, as long as they don't over do it the way Perry did, or! if you have the vocal ability, power, endurance, you should be able to sing any song and never burn out your voice. John Farnhams catalog is just as difficult, if not harder to sing than Journey's, and John still sounds as good as he ever did. You have to know your limits as a singer, discipline, understanding your voice, and it's range as well.

It's a case-by-case thing too. Just the same way some athletes' bodies seem destined for longevity and very resilient in terms of staying fresh/injury-free and others burn out after a few really good years, the same thing happens to vocalists. Farnham's a great example, look at DeYoung too - 61, 62? still sounds unbelievable. Others don't last as long. Staying in shape, not getting too hooked on drugs/booze, practicing with good coach(es) helps a lot, but I'm sure there are plenty of guys out there who do all the right things (and some singers who abuse the shit out of their voices/bodies and somehow hold up) and just don't hold up. A lot of it is natural, for better or worse.

[Jana]

For the most part, it appears that's the consideration. He never truly established an unique style apart from what I've listed above and half the time he's barely in the mix. He's a great bassist in the fact that he stays out of the way and does his job, but average in the fact that he lacks individuality and flair.

Yeah, he needs to get a pair of polka dot spandex pants and gain 100 lbs.

LOL.

[ProgRocker53]

For the most part, it appears that's the consideration. He never truly established an unique style apart from what I've listed above and half the time he's barely in the mix. He's a great bassist in the fact that he stays out of the way and does his job, but average in the fact that he lacks individuality and flair.

Yeah, he needs to get a pair of polka dot spandex pants and gain 100 lbs.

Randy Jackson is a freaking monster on the four-string.. he makes RoR for me.

Also love his work on "After the Fall" and BOC's "Shooting Shark."

[Gideon]

The Journey catalog kills singers.

I think that alone should be testament to why that band should be worshipped among musicians. They seem to be the veritable cream of the crop in all ways except bass.

Makes me wonder how respected/well known/talented Ross Valory is in the music world.

Easy does it now. The classic line-up already had an embarassement of riches with Perry on vocals, Schon on guitar, and Smitty on drums. All Ross really had to do was keep time, and stay the hell out of the way.

No, no, lol. You misinterpret.

We've all heard musicians and fans rant and rave about all of the Journey boys minus Ross. I love Ross; despite the fact that he looks like he died between '87 - '96, has a youthful energy to him and a great charisma. I just want to know if he's considered average with his instrument.

For the most part, it appears that's the consideration. He never truly established an unique style apart from what I've listed above and half the time he's barely in the mix. He's a great bassist in the fact that he stays out of the way and does his job, but average in the fact that he lacks individuality and flair.

Well, I'm not a musician.

See, it seems to me that someone of Neal Schon's calibre could pretty much play anything on the guitar. I.e. Steve Vai or Joe Satriani aren't too complicated for him.

Am I right?

[Vladan]

The Journey catalog kills singers.

Well that's an interesting statement. This may sound crazy, but! I don't believe that is the case at all. What kills singers, is trying to sing the Journey catalog the way Perry sang it. Although having said that, you take a look at Jeremy Hunsicker - he's been singing the Journey catalog for a long time, his voice still sounds amazing, if not getting better with age.

Some people can sing Journey and have no problems what so ever, as long as they don't over do it the way Perry did, or! if you have the vocal ability, power, endurance, you should be able to sing any song and never burn out your voice. John Farnhams catalog is just as difficult, if not harder to sing than Journey's, and John still sounds as good as he ever did. You have to know your limits as a singer, discipline, understanding your voice, and it's range as well.

It's a case-by-case thing too. Just the same way some athletes' bodies seem destined for longevity and very resilient in terms of staying fresh/injury-free and others burn out after a few really good years, the same thing happens to vocalists. Farnham's a great example, look at DeYoung too - 61, 62? still sounds unbelievable. Others don't last as long. Staying in shape, not getting too hooked on drugs/booze, practicing with good coach(es) helps a lot, but I'm sure there are plenty of guys out there who do all the right things (and some singers who abuse the shit out of their voices/bodies and somehow hold up) and just don't hold up. A lot of it is natural, for better or worse.

Yes I believe you are quite right there. And I actually edited my post a little before as well, but nothing much has changed. Good solid points you make Ehwmatt.

Thanks.

[Jubilee]

The Journey catalog kills singers.

I think that alone should be testament to why that band should be worshipped among musicians. They seem to be the veritable cream of the crop in all ways except bass.

Makes me wonder how respected/well known/talented Ross Valory is in the music world.

Easy does it now. The classic line-up already had an embarassement of riches with Perry on vocals, Schon on guitar, and Smitty on drums. All Ross really had to do was keep time, and stay the hell out of the way.

No, no, lol. You misinterpret.

We've all heard musicians and fans rant and rave about all of the Journey boys minus Ross. I love Ross; despite the fact that he looks like he died between '87 - '96, has a youthful energy to him and a great charisma. I just want to know if he's considered average with his instrument.

For the most part, it appears that's the consideration. He never truly established an unique style apart from what I've listed above and half the time he's barely in the mix. He's a great bassist in the fact that he stays out of the way and does his job, but average in the fact that he lacks individuality and flair.

Valory's "style" may have been in it's subtltey. One thing is for sure, when you listen to "Once You Love Somebody", you may not know who's playing bass, but right from the start you know damned well it AIN'T Ross.

[Gideon]

Because you can hear it?

I've never heard "subtle" used as synonymous with outright "silence" before.

Just kidding, but I do feel production typically screws Ross. The last time I heard him on my iPod was Arrival.

[Ehwmatt]

Bassists get screwed in the mix more often than not unfortunately, even on otherwise well-mixed records.

One of the first principles you learn about mixing is to always err on the side of too little, rather than too much bass, which is very true. But, it still sucks that so many great bass players are buried in mixes over the years. John Myung from Dream Theater is basically non-existent on most of their records.

EDIT: BTW, some of the best mixing and producing that I've ever heard is most of The Guess Who catalogue. Great bass lines all over that record and the keys/guitar/kick sit just fine anyway.