MR

I'm a little confused about the chronology here... when exactly was Neal brought into the band?

I was surprised to find out they were working with a different guitarist before that (Bob Gilles). I'm guessing the song "Hole in Your Heart" which appears on the Jesse's Powertrip album was a Bad English song pre-Schon?

First I heard. Are you sure you are not confusing Bad English and Hardline. I know Hardline was being produced by Neal and he decided to join. So obviously he was not Hardline's first (or last for that matter!0 guitarist. But I never heard anything about Bad English pre-Schon...

Idiosyncrasy wrote:I'm a little confused about the chronology here... when exactly was Neal brought into the band?

I was surprised to find out they were working with a different guitarist before that (Bob Gilles). I'm guessing the song "Hole in Your Heart" which appears on the Jesse's Powertrip album was a Bad English song pre-Schon?

Neal was in from the beginning of the band. But as far as how the band came together, I think Neal was added later. If my memory serves me right. John W. started it, he and Jon were working together and Neal came later? It has been a while. Used to belong to their fan club. Darn now I gotta look that up!

artist4perry wrote:

Idiosyncrasy wrote:I'm a little confused about the chronology here... when exactly was Neal brought into the band?

I was surprised to find out they were working with a different guitarist before that (Bob Gilles). I'm guessing the song "Hole in Your Heart" which appears on the Jesse's Powertrip album was a Bad English song pre-Schon?

Neal was in from the beginning of the band. But as far as how the band came together, I think Neal was added later. If my memory serves me right. John W. started it, he and Jon were working together and Neal came later? It has been a while. Used to belong to their fan club. Darn now I gotta look that up!

Oh, that's odd - I was trying to found out where "Hole in Your Heart" originated, given the Gilles/Waite/Cain writing credit and I kept stumbling across sites which were calling Bob "Bad English's original guitarist" (can't find the bloody sites now LOL). I think he and Ricky Phillips may have been in Firefly together, so that could be another connection.

Hole In Your Heart
(Jonathan Cain/John Waite/Bob Gilles)

Midnight on the boulevard
The kid is back in town
Tonight you're gonna walk alone
She's finally put you down

Light another cigarette
Flash another smile
You never really lost your touch
Tonight you're back in style

Dividing into different worlds
True love takes a dive
Someone takes another piece of you …all your life

There's hole in your heart
When no one's loving you
There's a hole in your heart
With people falling through

Walking on the wild side
Take another chance
Tell your story one more time
The high price of romance

You know your gonna see her face
In every girl you meet
She's living in a fairy tale
Your living on the street

Chorus

Your running down a dead end street
It could have been your paradise
We know that your falling through
All your life

O.K. did a little reserch. John C called Jon W., then Ricky. Schon lived about 10 miles from Cain at that time. Schon kept "showing up" according to fellow band mates. First to say hi, or he left ciggarettes, etc. Then he brought one guitar, then two......LOL! Neal was working on a solo album himself at the beginning and was not sure if he could commit. He gave them names of other guitarists. No one else seemed to fit. So Neal became their guitarist.

I found this one article for you. Sorry so large click on it then click to get readable size.

Cool stuff....didn't know the back story on B.E. until now but wow - those two albums are incredible.

What I had always heard right from the very start is that Waite and Cain were putting the band together, they didn't have a guitarist yet, so they asked Neal to play on some demos with them. Neal did the demos with them, but there was still no intention that Neal would join the band. Neal gave them names of guitarists who they should look into for their band. But Waite and Cain never found a guitarist that they liked as well as Neal, so they finally asked Neal to join the band, and he agreed.

Waite and Cain had already been in The Baby's with Ricky Phillips.

And it was Neal who brought in Deen.

Journey/Survivor wrote:What I had always heard right from the very start is that Waite and Cain were putting the band together, they didn't have a guitarist yet, so they asked Neal to play on some demos with them. Neal did the demos with them, but there was still no intention that Neal would join the band. Neal gave them names of guitarists who they should look into for their band. But Waite and Cain never found a guitarist that they liked as well as Neal, so they finally asked Neal to join the band, and he agreed.

Waite and Cain had already been in The Baby's with Ricky Phillips.

And it was Neal who brought in Deen.

Bout what I was trying to say, but you said it better. Jon talked to Ricky about it at his brothers wedding was what I read.

Journey/Survivor wrote:What I had always heard right from the very start is that Waite and Cain were putting the band together, they didn't have a guitarist yet, so they asked Neal to play on some demos with them. Neal did the demos with them, but there was still no intention that Neal would join the band. Neal gave them names of guitarists who they should look into for their band. But Waite and Cain never found a guitarist that they liked as well as Neal, so they finally asked Neal to join the band, and he agreed.

Waite and Cain had already been in The Baby's with Ricky Phillips.

And it was Neal who brought in Deen.

Funny story. Neal did bring in Deen, but it was not until the Pat Torpey had quit. He chose to join up with Mr. Big and that led to Deen.

Idiosyncrasy wrote:I'm a little confused about the chronology here... when exactly was Neal brought into the band?

I was surprised to find out they were working with a different guitarist before that (Bob Gilles). I'm guessing the song "Hole in Your Heart" which appears on the Jesse's Powertrip album was a Bad English song pre-Schon?

Andy Timmons from Danger Danger also wrote with Cain and Waite, and was in the running to be the guitarist until Neal showed up.

OT of how Neal joined, but here's an interview Ricky Phillips gave on the breakup in an interview with Andrew.

Q. Why did Bad English break up?

A. This explanation was given by bass player Ricky Phillips in an interview with Andrew McNeice:

"Too many cooks. Nobody was willing to bend anymore. Everyone forget what the beauty of being in a band was all about, and at some point there has to be some degree of a democracy, or all the parties have to agree that one person is the dictator. It can't be both, and er, when you've got four great writers in one band, somebody's got to give. The first record we all kind of pitched in and did our job. First off I was really involved in the songwriting, then Neal came into the situation, and I pushed him forward. He would come over to my house and I would record his ideas one after another, cause they were so brilliant. But after awhile everyone forgot what the chemistry was, everyone was fighting for their ideas, instead of finding where the most natural flow was.

"And people started keeping score, and that's where the dissatisfaction started cropping up. Quite frankly Jonathan Cain and John Waite tried to take over during the second record, and run it, and that's when Neal Schon and I basically said at one point - Let's finish this record, but this is not really what I'm here for. And slowly but surely I didn't change, it got worse and we really fell apart and split up during the making of that second record. It was at that point he record company kinda lost interest in putting anything behind it. Which is a shame, because there are some really classy pieces of music on that record. You could feel that tension, which in a way is kinda cool, I mean I can really feel the tension in the recording of those songs, and I like that."

Jana wrote:OT of how Neal joined, but here's an interview Ricky Phillips gave on the breakup in an interview with Andrew.

Q. Why did Bad English break up?

A. This explanation was given by bass player Ricky Phillips in an interview with Andrew McNeice:

"Too many cooks. Nobody was willing to bend anymore. Everyone forget what the beauty of being in a band was all about, and at some point there has to be some degree of a democracy, or all the parties have to agree that one person is the dictator. It can't be both, and er, when you've got four great writers in one band, somebody's got to give. The first record we all kind of pitched in and did our job. First off I was really involved in the songwriting, then Neal came into the situation, and I pushed him forward. He would come over to my house and I would record his ideas one after another, cause they were so brilliant. But after awhile everyone forgot what the chemistry was, everyone was fighting for their ideas, instead of finding where the most natural flow was.

"And people started keeping score, and that's where the dissatisfaction started cropping up. Quite frankly Jonathan Cain and John Waite tried to take over during the second record, and run it, and that's when Neal Schon and I basically said at one point - Let's finish this record, but this is not really what I'm here for. And slowly but surely I didn't change, it got worse and we really fell apart and split up during the making of that second record. It was at that point he record company kinda lost interest in putting anything behind it. Which is a shame, because there are some really classy pieces of music on that record. You could feel that tension, which in a way is kinda cool, I mean I can really feel the tension in the recording of those songs, and I like that."

Friga slays another one.

Gunbot wrote:

Jana wrote:OT of how Neal joined, but here's an interview Ricky Phillips gave on the breakup in an interview with Andrew.

Q. Why did Bad English break up?

A. This explanation was given by bass player Ricky Phillips in an interview with Andrew McNeice:

"Too many cooks. Nobody was willing to bend anymore. Everyone forget what the beauty of being in a band was all about, and at some point there has to be some degree of a democracy, or all the parties have to agree that one person is the dictator. It can't be both, and er, when you've got four great writers in one band, somebody's got to give. The first record we all kind of pitched in and did our job. First off I was really involved in the songwriting, then Neal came into the situation, and I pushed him forward. He would come over to my house and I would record his ideas one after another, cause they were so brilliant. But after awhile everyone forgot what the chemistry was, everyone was fighting for their ideas, instead of finding where the most natural flow was.

"And people started keeping score, and that's where the dissatisfaction started cropping up. Quite frankly Jonathan Cain and John Waite tried to take over during the second record, and run it, and that's when Neal Schon and I basically said at one point - Let's finish this record, but this is not really what I'm here for. And slowly but surely I didn't change, it got worse and we really fell apart and split up during the making of that second record. It was at that point he record company kinda lost interest in putting anything behind it. Which is a shame, because there are some really classy pieces of music on that record. You could feel that tension, which in a way is kinda cool, I mean I can really feel the tension in the recording of those songs, and I like that."

Friga slays another one.

Friga always slays me