MR

Though I am a new poster here, I have been a Journey fan since I was 10. (1978) "Escape" is my all time favorite album by anyone. I love that album! My second favorite Journey record is "Evolution". I have seen Journey about 12 times since they reformed with SA. Why do you guys think they ignore "Evolution" for the most part? Of course they play "LTS".....and they played "Just the Same Way" once in Detroit with SA......but there are so many good songs on there: "Lovin' You Is Easy", "Do You Recall", "Whe You're Alone it ain't easy", "Lady Luck", "Too Late".....

I would love to hear "LTS" and "City of the Angels" played back to back....and I know they used "Majestic" for awhile last year....not in Detroit though....they seem to have thrown in many more songs from "Infinity", "Departure" and "Frontiers" over the past few years......why not "Evolution"???

Any thoughts????

Deen also did "Daydream" a few years back. That album should get more set time especially "Just The Same Way" and "Lovin You Is Easy"

maybe because those songs are fargin hard to sing...

slucero wrote:maybe because those songs are fargin hard to sing...

I think Arnel could pull it off, so I dont think thats the reason. I think they sing the majority favorites, most songs thier crowds would want....and obvioulsy thier "Most Popular By Demand" new ones! =D

Personally, I'm not a big fan of "Evolution." I can appreciate it vocally, and it has fantastic moments like "Sweet and Simple." But it doesn't rock nearly enough for me and the vocals aren't enough to compensate for lackluster writing. I'd like to hear Arnel's interpretation of certain songs from the album; I don't think, even with his newfound reservoir of vocal awesomeness, that he could replicate or imitate Perry's superfuckinghigh countertenor, but I bet he could make it sound good.

But I truly believe there are far better songs out there that they could play.

Certainly, and they have a VERY BIG catolog as well, so why are they not playing other songs. To me, it seems like Journey are and have been playing very safe for the past 10 years, when it comes to touring, playing extremely safe with the song choices, always the same songs, always the same hits, they have so many more songs, why don't don't they play more Raised On Radio? there were plenty of hits from that album, "Girl Can't Help It" "I'll Be Alright Without You" even "Suzanne" was a hit, great song, and they never play it... why is that? perhaps it only suits Perry's vocals? since they were pretty much his "baby" so to speak, but still, you just look at Jon Cains face sometimes, he looks very bored. Even play non hits, they are an established band, have been for 30+ years, it won't hurt them if they played other stuff. Open Arms, Don't Stop Beleivin, Faithfully, yawn.

Evolution is their best record in my opinion. From the best instrumental ever opening to through til the end, the record kicks ass and is my favorite. I suspect they don't do much of that material because they don't have anyone that can sing those songs day in and day out. That shit is way up there!

Vladan wrote:Certainly, and they have a VERY BIG catolog as well, so why are they not playing other songs.

They've been playing five to six songs from Revelation, which is the album they need to be pushing. I'd say their priorities are in the right place.

To me, it seems like Journey are and have been playing very safe for the past 10 years, when it comes to touring, playing extremely safe with the song choices, always the same songs, always the same hits, they have so many more songs,

Because there's a balance. They can't just do what they want to do or what a select group of fans want to do. Like it or not, OA and DSB and "Faithfully" will always -- always -- be more relevant than their obscure works. The common fan wants to hear those.

why don't don't they play more Raised On Radio?

Neal hates it.

there were plenty of hits from that album, "Girl Can't Help It" "I'll Be Alright Without You" even "Suzanne" was a hit, great song, and they never play it... why is that?

Neal hates it. IBAWY may appear on the setlist; it's in great ballad territory. But the rest? They aren't rock nor are they strictly ballads, but pop.

perhaps it only suits Perry's vocals?

Doubt it. Arnel's probably more suited to tackle '83 and beyond than the early '80s and '70s.

since they were pretty much his "baby" so to speak, but still, you just look at Jon Cains face sometimes, he looks very bored. Even play non hits, they are an established band, have been for 30+ years, it won't hurt them if they played other stuff. Open Arms, Don't Stop Beleivin, Faithfully, yawn.

They're starting to do that more and pushing their most recent album. But like it or not, the band isn't subject to our whims and they still have to keep the ticketbuyers and casual fans in mind.

Gideon wrote:

Vladan wrote:Certainly, and they have a VERY BIG catolog as well, so why are they not playing other songs.

They've been playing five to six songs from Revelation, which is the album they need to be pushing. I'd say their priorities are in the right place.

To me, it seems like Journey are and have been playing very safe for the past 10 years, when it comes to touring, playing extremely safe with the song choices, always the same songs, always the same hits, they have so many more songs,

Because there's a balance. They can't just do what they want to do or what a select group of fans want to do. Like it or not, OA and DSB and "Faithfully" will always -- always -- be more relevant than their obscure works. The common fan wants to hear those.

why don't don't they play more Raised On Radio?

Neal hates it.

there were plenty of hits from that album, "Girl Can't Help It" "I'll Be Alright Without You" even "Suzanne" was a hit, great song, and they never play it... why is that?

Neal hates it. IBAWY may appear on the setlist; it's in great ballad territory. But the rest? They aren't rock nor are they strictly ballads, but pop.

perhaps it only suits Perry's vocals?

Doubt it. Arnel's probably more suited to tackle '83 and beyond than the early '80s and '70s.

since they were pretty much his "baby" so to speak, but still, you just look at Jon Cains face sometimes, he looks very bored. Even play non hits, they are an established band, have been for 30+ years, it won't hurt them if they played other stuff. Open Arms, Don't Stop Beleivin, Faithfully, yawn.

They're starting to do that more and pushing their most recent album. But like it or not, the band isn't subject to our whims and they still have to keep the ticketbuyers and casual fans in mind.

AMEN! =]

Gideon wrote:

Vladan wrote:Certainly, and they have a VERY BIG catolog as well, so why are they not playing other songs.

They've been playing five to six songs from Revelation, which is the album they need to be pushing. I'd say their priorities are in the right place.

To me, it seems like Journey are and have been playing very safe for the past 10 years, when it comes to touring, playing extremely safe with the song choices, always the same songs, always the same hits, they have so many more songs,

Because there's a balance. They can't just do what they want to do or what a select group of fans want to do. Like it or not, OA and DSB and "Faithfully" will always -- always -- be more relevant than their obscure works. The common fan wants to hear those.

why don't don't they play more Raised On Radio?

Neal hates it.

there were plenty of hits from that album, "Girl Can't Help It" "I'll Be Alright Without You" even "Suzanne" was a hit, great song, and they never play it... why is that?

Neal hates it. IBAWY may appear on the setlist; it's in great ballad territory. But the rest? They aren't rock nor are they strictly ballads, but pop.

perhaps it only suits Perry's vocals?

Doubt it. Arnel's probably more suited to tackle '83 and beyond than the early '80s and '70s.

since they were pretty much his "baby" so to speak, but still, you just look at Jon Cains face sometimes, he looks very bored. Even play non hits, they are an established band, have been for 30+ years, it won't hurt them if they played other stuff. Open Arms, Don't Stop Beleivin, Faithfully, yawn.

They're starting to do that more and pushing their most recent album. But like it or not, the band isn't subject to our whims and they still have to keep the ticketbuyers and casual fans in mind.

Ok, you have to look it from a long time fans perspective. With all due respect to what you quoted me on, some of it is valid, however a lot of is simply excuses.

Myself, been a fan since the mid 90's not that long, compared to a lot of people here, have been a fan before I was even born, so you have to look it from the perspective that we've pretty much thought of all scenarios through and through, probably discussed everything under the sun, a good 10 years ago, so there really isn't new going on around here, so my points are valid. The obvious answers to my question are, money, and "believe it or not" majority of Journey fans are casual, where the die hard fans are the ones that bother with all the time invested with uploading clips to Youtube, creating websites, and running forums, they are the real die hards, you know the ones who will travel state to state to watch them perform Wheel In the sky for the 100th time, the rest of the fans are either new, or just come and go.

Vladan wrote:Ok, you have to look it from a long time fans perspective.

That's the problem.

With all due respect to you, your posts suggest that you're under the impression that the band's setlists should be ultimately up to the die hards. And in some ways, you're right. But Journey and other bands are a business; statistically, die hard fans such as the ones on these forums do not constitute enough to risk shifting the entire focus of the setlist from the dirty dozen to obscure tracks.

With all due respect to what you quoted me on, some of it is valid, however a lot of is simply excuses.

None of it is excuses. I'm simply telling you why they logically don't want play that stuff. I'm personally with you, but them's the breaks.

Myself, been a fan since the mid 90's not that long, compared to a lot of people here, have been a fan before I was even born, so you have to look it from the perspective that we've pretty much thought of all scenarios through and through, probably discussed everything under the sun, a good 10 years ago, so there really isn't new going on around here, so my points are valid. The obvious answers to my question are, money, and "believe it or not" majority of Journey fans are casual, where the die hard fans are the ones that bother with all the time invested with uploading clips to Youtube, creating websites, and running forums, they are the real die hards, you know the ones who will travel state to state to watch them perform Wheel In the sky for the 100th time, the rest of the fans are either new, or just come and go.

You just answered the question. You're not the majority. None of us are. If the rest of the casual fans felt like this, I'd bet Rick's income that the setlist would change. Cain does look bored and Neal despises songs like "Open Arms." If they felt that they could drop those songs for the plethora of better ones in their catalogue without risking an uprising, I'm sure they would.

OK, I have read what you said. Will review it shortly.

My main question is. How long have you been a fan (?)

And there seems to be a lot of people disagreeing with you around these parts, just an observation, you know it's very common to come on this forum and see the name "Gideon" participating in a lot of back and forth arguments, seems very time consuming, and plenty a lot of wasted energy. IMO - You just can't beat the oldies, that's something I have learned a long time ago.

Vladan wrote:OK, I have read what you said. Will review it shortly.

My main question is. How long have you been a fan (?)

And there seems to be a lot of people disagreeing with you around these parts, just an observation, you know it's very common to come on this forum and see the name "Gideon" participating in a lot of back and forth arguments, seems very time consuming, and plenty a lot of wasted energy. IMO - You just can't beat the oldies, that's something I have learned a long time ago.

I am LMAO, Giddy!!!

Gideon wrote:Personally, I'm not a big fan of "Evolution." I can appreciate it vocally, and it has fantastic moments like "Sweet and Simple." But it doesn't rock nearly enough for me and the vocals aren't enough to compensate for lackluster writing. I'd like to hear Arnel's interpretation of certain songs from the album; I don't think, even with his newfound reservoir of vocal awesomeness, that he could replicate or imitate Perry's superfuckinghigh countertenor, but I bet he could make it sound good.

But I truly believe there are far better songs out there that they could play.

I love Evolution, good stuff!!!
S&S is one of my top two favorites!!!

Vladan wrote:IMO - You just can't beat the oldies, that's something I have learned a long time ago.

That's just what that is, though. Your opinion. In overall popularity, Steve Perry blows Arnel out of the water. There is no comparison between the two. But technical skill? You're saying that the solos of Evolution and Infinity can compare with "Castles Burnin'" on TBF, "World Gone Wild" on Arrival, or the remake of "Be Good To Yourself?" You're saying that the overall skill of the rest of the band can compare to now? Sure, as I said, Steve Perry blows everyone else out of the water; that isn't the point, though. Instead of one person controlling the skill, you have five equally amazing members now.

To take Gideon's defense, he is a VERY opinionated person, and if he finds something that he disagrees with, he'll tell you. It isn't wasteful to him. Believe me, I know him outside of these boards.

Deacon wrote:

Vladan wrote:IMO - You just can't beat the oldies, that's something I have learned a long time ago.

That's just what that is, though. Your opinion. In overall popularity, Steve Perry blows Arnel out of the water. There is no comparison between the two. But technical skill? You're saying that the solos of Evolution and Infinity can compare with "Castles Burnin'" on TBF, "World Gone Wild" on Arrival, or the remake of "Be Good To Yourself?" You're saying that the overall skill of the rest of the band can compare to now? Sure, as I said, Steve Perry blows everyone else out of the water; that isn't the point, though. Instead of one person controlling the skill, you have five equally amazing members now.

To take Gideon's defense, he is a VERY opinionated person, and if he finds something that he disagrees with, he'll tell you. It isn't wasteful to him. Believe me, I know him outside of these boards.

Being opinionated and being correct, two different things. If your right, you won't feel the need to go back and forth trying to convince people, or you may feel the need to?, some people do. You just take a look at the patterns emerging on the forums here.

To my comment on "oldies" the one you quoted me on - I was referring to people, older people, if you argue with them, you can't win, I wasn't referring to songs, perhaps I could of been a little more elaborate in my comments.

Thanks

Vladan wrote:
Being opinionated and being correct, two different things. If your right, you won't feel the need to go back and forth trying to convince people, or you may feel the need to?, some people do. You just take a look at the patterns emerging on the forums here.

To my comment on "oldies" the one you quoted me on - I was referring to people, older people, if you argue with them, you can't win, I wasn't referring to songs, perhaps I could of been a little more elaborate in my comments.

Thanks

Lol, sorry for misunderstanding you then.

But, the majority of what is dealt with is subjective material. There is usually no way to prove [or incidentally disprove] a belief such as that unless it is built upon an objective statement. Because of that, you see Gideon, Deano, Myself, and numerous others go at it, round after round.

Deacon wrote:

Vladan wrote:
Being opinionated and being correct, two different things. If your right, you won't feel the need to go back and forth trying to convince people, or you may feel the need to?, some people do. You just take a look at the patterns emerging on the forums here.

To my comment on "oldies" the one you quoted me on - I was referring to people, older people, if you argue with them, you can't win, I wasn't referring to songs, perhaps I could of been a little more elaborate in my comments.

Thanks

Lol, sorry for misunderstanding you then.

But, the majority of what is dealt with is subjective material. There is usually no way to prove [or incidentally disprove] a belief such as that unless it is built upon an objective statement. Because of that, you see Gideon, Deano, Myself, and numerous others go at it, round after round.

No worries mate, yeah forums for me at times can be confusing, unless one is being very specific, can be tricky to the right idea across. Deano, well I don't get into arguments with him, we generally agree with most things Journey related anyway, so we are cool. Cheers.

Vladan wrote:OK, I have read what you said. Will review it shortly.

No problem. And it's not so much a review. Like I said, I'm with you, but we don't have the clout required to make these changes. The band services the majority.

My main question is. How long have you been a fan (?)

I was raised on Journey and Rush by my father, so you could say all my life. I got really big into it when I was 9 or 10.

And there seems to be a lot of people disagreeing with you around these parts, just an observation, you know it's very common to come on this forum and see the name "Gideon" participating in a lot of back and forth arguments, seems very time consuming, and plenty a lot of wasted energy.

I like to debate and express my opinion. Moreover, I like to hear people's opinions as well. It's a learning experience and is rarely a waste of energy. More often than not, I run into people who think I'm antagonizing them. That's not the case. As with here, I'm personally with you but recognize the logic of the situation as to why this band doesn't drop to bended knee and vow to change to the demands of the minority.

IMO - You just can't beat the oldies, that's something I have learned a long time ago.

I disagree entirely. But that's the beauty of an opinion.

Journey's setlists are pretty much ok as is...nothing wrong with them. They play what concert goers want to hear. That is, what they expect to hear when they pay money and come to the show. Heart pulled some bullshit a few years ago and came to Naperville and didn't play any, or just a few, of their 80's hits. The crowd left furious and the promoters were pissed.

Journey's sets are responsible. They play the songs that the people made popular. Hence, you have an obligation to play them. Now I'll agree that there should probably be another ROR song in here and there as those were hits, but to think that anyone (in multiples of 10) wants to fucking hear Winds Of March, Patiently, Opened The Door is just plain dumb. Everyone wants them to "take chances." You wanna take chances? Put duct tape on your prick and remove it with an exacto knife while driving. But don't foul up Journey's sets with a bunch of obscure songs from shit albums like Departure and Infinity. Yuck.

Saint John wrote:Journey's setlists are pretty much ok as is...nothing wrong with them. They play what concert goers want to hear. That is, what they expect to hear when they pay money and come to the show. Heart pulled some bullshit a few years ago and came to Naperville and didn't play any, or just a few, of their 80's hits. The crowd left furious and the promoters were pissed.

Journey's sets are responsible. They play the songs that the people made popular. Hence, you have an obligation to play them. Now I'll agree that there should probably be another ROR song in here and there as those were hits, but to think that anyone (in multiples of 10) wants to fucking hear Winds Of March, Patiently, Opened The Door is just plain dumb. Everyone wants them to "take chances." You wanna take chances? Put duct tape on your prick and remove it with an exacto knife while driving. But don't foul up Journey's sets with a bunch of obscure songs from shit albums like Departure and Infinity. Yuck.

Hey there. I love Infinity, still my favorite Journey album. The last couple of years I've heard Journey do Feelin' That Way/Anytime, LaDoDa, When You love a Woman, I'll be Alright Without You (Personally, I'm not an ROR fan) among others and I LOVED IT. They also included Keep on Runnin' and Still They Ride with Deen on vocals in Manila. I agree with you SJ for the most part on the DD + having to throw in Revelation songs doesn't leave much time, but I'm hoping they continue to throw in a couple for the diehards this tour especially since it should be a longer set than the last couple of years.

The setlist from Manila again:

1. The Journey (Revelation)
2. Never Walk Away
3. Only The Young
4. Ask The Lonely
5. Stone In Love
6. Keep On Runnin' (Deen on vocals)
7. After All These Years
8. Change For The Better
9. Jon Cain on Harmonica
10.Wheel in the Sky
11. Lights
12. Still They Ride (Deen)
13. Open Arms
14. Mother, Father (Deen)
15. Wildest Dream
16. When You Love a Woman
17. Separate Ways
18. What I Needed
19. Edge of the Blade
20. Where Did I Lose Your Love?
21. Escape
22. Faithfully
23. Don't Stop Believin'
24. Anyway You Want It

encore:
1. Lovin', Touchin', Squeezin'
2.Turn Down the World Tonight
3. Be Good to Yourself

That is such a fantastic set list.

Gideon wrote:That is such a fantastic set list.

It is.

It seems to get better every time they tour.

Deacon wrote:

Gideon wrote:That is such a fantastic set list.

It is.

It seems to get better every time they tour.

They need to scrap LTS for Higher Place.

Gideon wrote:

Deacon wrote:

Gideon wrote:That is such a fantastic set list.

It is.

It seems to get better every time they tour.

They need to scrap LTS for Higher Place.

Journey tour 2010?

Gideon wrote:

Deacon wrote:

Gideon wrote:That is such a fantastic set list.

It is.

It seems to get better every time they tour.

They need to scrap LTS for Higher Place.

Might as well, IMO the only 2 that could deliver LTS with the soulful bluesy swagger it calls for are Perry and Soto. And I like Higher Place.

Deacon wrote:

Gideon wrote:

Deacon wrote:

Gideon wrote:That is such a fantastic set list.

It is.

It seems to get better every time they tour.

They need to scrap LTS for Higher Place.

Journey tour 2010?

I'm betting Journey tour 2009 since they did Higher Place in Japan.

One other thing regarding the original topic of this thread. The first Journey song I fell in love with was "Do You Recall" I remember sitting in a friends driveway waiting for the song to finish on the radio not having any idea who the group was. Still another one of my favorites even though I always thought the name was "Stormy Weather".

Saint John wrote:Journey's setlists are pretty much ok as is...nothing wrong with them. They play what concert goers want to hear. That is, what they expect to hear when they pay money and come to the show. Heart pulled some bullshit a few years ago and came to Naperville and didn't play any, or just a few, of their 80's hits. The crowd left furious and the promoters were pissed.

Journey's sets are responsible. They play the songs that the people made popular. Hence, you have an obligation to play them. Now I'll agree that there should probably be another ROR song in here and there as those were hits, but to think that anyone (in multiples of 10) wants to fucking hear Winds Of March, Patiently, Opened The Door is just plain dumb. Everyone wants them to "take chances." You wanna take chances? Put duct tape on your prick and remove it with an exacto knife while driving. But don't foul up Journey's sets with a bunch of obscure songs from shit albums like Departure and Infinity. Yuck.

Infinity, Evolution and Departure are among the best delivered by Journey, although I do wish the mixing was better. All I can say is these were all before Journey became sissyfied. I know your not a sissy...just young so that's cool.

If all they play is the same ol' setlist I'm done. You call it safe, I call it cruise control and squeezing the last bit of $$ out of their machine. Screw everything else, including the long time fans.

If they nailed some of the old catalogue, they might sell more of the old CDs to the young fans. Just a thought.

hoagiepete wrote: All I can say is these were all before Journey became sissyfied.

This is when they were sissified. Perry sounded like a fucking girl. Escape and Frontiers brought a more rocking sound and thank God his voice got some rasp to it. The 3 albums you mentioned are garbage.

hoagiepete wrote:If they nailed some of the old catalogue, they might sell more of the old CDs to the young fans. Just a thought.

If they do that, then the reaction would be incredibly variable. The reception isn't guaranteed; cold to luke-warm receptions would lose bookoo dollars that they would have if they kept the current setlist.