Kansas or Journey...someone stole a riff!!!

by **G.I.Jim** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 3:40 pm

Just listening to OLD Journey ( just to see what the hell the OLD people on here hear), and came across "I'm Gonna Leave You" Now, after looking at the album cover...the album came out in 1976. This intro riff is IDENTICAL to the riff Kansas uses in "Carry On Wayward Son" at the 33 second mark. Their album is also dated 1976. SOMEBODY stole the shit out of that riff...who was it? :twisted:

Check them out...

Here's Journey

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0SwXrajVHY

Here's Kansas "Carry on my Wayward Son"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pw6_VXPwm6U

by **S2M** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 3:45 pm

Musically, Kansas puts Journey to shame......I admit that Neal is a better guitarist that Rich Williams. But overall, as far as compositions and lyrics - Kansas slays most bands.....Kansas doesn't need to steal shit from anybody.

by **G.I.Jim** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 3:48 pm

StocktontoMalone wrote:Musically, Kansas puts Journey to shame......I admit that Neal is a better guitarist that Rich Williams. But overall, as far as compositions and lyrics - Kansas slays most bands.....Kansas doesn't need to steal shit from anybody.

Musically, I may have to agree with you...although they aren't the commercial success that Journey is/was because of not being more mainstream...they had some amazing musicians. But back to my original question...somebody OBVIOUSLY heard the other band's take on this riff. Someone was definitely cheating on their homework! So who was it???

by **Rick** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:01 pm

Look Into The Future released January 1976

Leftoverture released October 1976

My vote was correct.

by **Maui Tom** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:04 pm

Kansas? KANSAS?

Bwahahahahahaha!

by **G.I.Jim** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:05 pm

Rick wrote:Look Into The Future released January 1976

Leftoverture released October 1976

My vote was correct.

You can't really go off of release dates Rick...Journey could have recorded it a year prior, and it just released in January. I really wonder if anyone here knows?

by **artist4perry** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:11 pm

Actually, song writers can write simmular stuff at the same time. No stealing. Someone once said musically and artistically there is nothing new under the sun, just different ways to rearrange what was...............Many a law suit showed this....it is a hard call.

Big case:

George Harrison: My Sweet Lord

(female group like the Shirrelles?) He's so fine

Sounded pretty close.........but prove who did what first? Hard to say! :wink:

by **Rick** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:11 pm

G.I.Jim wrote:
Rick wrote:Look Into The Future released January 1976

Leftoverture released October 1976

My vote was correct.

You can't really go off of release dates Rick...Journey could have recorded it a year prior, and it just released in January. I really wonder if anyone here knows?

Carry On Wayward Son was originally recorded in December of 1975. So you have a very good point.

by **G.I.Jim** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:17 pm

Rick wrote:
G.I.Jim wrote:
Rick wrote:Look Into The Future released January 1976

Leftoverture released October 1976

My vote was correct.

You can't really go off of release dates Rick...Journey could have recorded it a year prior, and it just released in January. I really wonder if anyone here knows?

Carry On Wayward Son was originally recorded in December of 1975. So you have a very good point.

That's what I'm saying! Artist4perry...not to argue here, but NOBODY plays the EXACT notes in the same timeframe, and it just be coincidence. Maybe some basic chord structure, but not intricate chords like those. Someone obviously stole the riff. Maybe the other just let it be, because the entire rest of the song is so different? I'm just really curious now that I heard it! :wink:

by **G.I.Jim** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:22 pm

Here's another one for you...

Starship- "Jane"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PwG69620WA

Aldo Nova- "Fantasy"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GylirgHFqeQ

by **artist4perry** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:22 pm

G.I.Jim wrote:
Rick wrote:
G.I.Jim wrote:
Rick wrote:Look Into The Future released January 1976

Leftoverture released October 1976

My vote was correct.

You can't really go off of release dates Rick...Journey could have recorded it a year prior, and it just released in January. I really wonder if anyone here knows?

Carry On Wayward Son was originally recorded in December of 1975. So you have a very good point.

That's what I'm saying! Artist4perry...not to argue here, but NOBODY plays the EXACT notes in the same timeframe, and it just be coincidence. Maybe some basic chord structure, but not intricate chords like those. Someone obviously stole the riff. Maybe the other just let it be, because the entire rest of the song is so different? I'm just really curious now that I heard it!

Hey you guys are the experts! LOL! I am just saying you might use part of a song and never be aware of it. I remember Paul McCartney in an interview recently saying when he writes a song he first goes around and asks folks if they have heard it before! LOL!

I am sure as artists are influenced by what they see, and might "borrow' parts of ideas from the past, it would almost be impossible with all the songs written past and present, not to have done some "borrowing" in music. Artist do it all the time.......does not mean it is intentional. Kinda happens.

by **G.I.Jim** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:25 pm

artist4perry wrote:
G.I.Jim wrote:
Rick wrote:
G.I.Jim wrote:
Rick wrote:Look Into The Future released January 1976

Leftoverture released October 1976

My vote was correct.

You can't really go off of release dates Rick...Journey could have recorded it a year prior, and it just released in January. I really wonder if anyone here knows?

Carry On Wayward Son was originally recorded in December of 1975. So you have a very good point.

That's what I'm saying! Artist4perry...not to argue here, but NOBODY plays the EXACT notes in the same timeframe, and it just be coincidence. Maybe some basic chord structure, but not intricate chords like those. Someone obviously stole the riff. Maybe the other just let it be, because the entire rest of the song is so different? I'm just really curious now that I heard it!

Hey you guys are the experts! LOL! I am just saying you might use part of a song and never be aware of it. I remember Paul McCartney in an interview recently saying when he writes a song he first goes around and asks folks if they have heard it before! LOL!

I am sure as artists are influenced by what they see, and might "borrow' parts of ideas from the past, it would almost be impossible with all the songs written past and present, not to have done some "borrowing" in music. Artist do it all the time.......does not mean it is intentional. Kinda happens.

I did it on purpose with my song "Losing You". I was listening to "Cold As Ice", and just started playing around with it. I admit it! :wink:

by **artist4perry** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:34 pm

G.I.Jim wrote:
artist4perry wrote:
G.I.Jim wrote:
Rick wrote:
G.I.Jim wrote:
Rick wrote:Look Into The Future released January 1976

Leftoverture released October 1976

My vote was correct.

You can't really go off of release dates Rick...Journey could have recorded it a year prior, and it just released in January. I really wonder if anyone here knows?

Carry On Wayward Son was originally recorded in December of 1975. So you have a very good point.

That's what I'm saying! Artist4perry...not to argue here, but NOBODY plays the EXACT notes in the same timeframe, and it just be coincidence. Maybe some basic chord structure, but not intricate chords like those. Someone obviously stole the riff. Maybe the other just let it be, because the entire rest of the song is so different? I'm just really curious now that I heard it!

Hey you guys are the experts! LOL! I am just saying you might use part of a song and never be aware of it. I remember Paul McCartney in an interview recently saying when he writes a song he first goes around and asks folks if they have heard it before! LOL!

I am sure as artists are influenced by what they see, and might "borrow' parts of ideas from the past, it would almost be impossible with all the songs written past and present, not to have done some "borrowing" in music. Artist do it all the time.......does not mean it is intentional. Kinda happens.

I did it on purpose with my song "Losing You". I was listening to "Cold As Ice", and just started playing around with it. I admit it!

* Is that Lou Gramm coming up your steps? :shock:

He looks pissed and he has a guy in a suit with him :shock:

*

by **stevew2** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:27 am

Neal said at a concert {which was embarassing} "we are going to do an old song for ya,you ll reconize a piece in it that Rush ripped of from us.He was referring to Tom Sawyer[[When they playing "Im gonna leave You" Ruch kicked Journeys ass with Tom Sawyer

by **walkslikealady** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:53 am

I liked "Carry On" better...don't know who ripped off what though.

by **Saint John** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 1:32 am

stevew2 wrote:Neal said at a concert {which was embarassing} "we are going to do an old song for ya,you ll reconize a piece in it that Rush ripped of from us.He was referring to Tom Sawyer[[When they playing "Im gonna leave You" Ruch kicked Journeys ass with Tom Sawyer

Neal Schon is on record at concerts as saying that Kansas ripped off Carry On Wayward Son from Journey. Ironically, the first review of the album that I went to had this to say, " “I’m Gonna Leave You”... The riff that starts this one sounds similar to the second half of that heard in Kansas’s “Carry on Wayward Son.”

I'm not sure about the Rush song you're referring to. Tom Sawyer doesn't really sound like any Journey song that I know of.

by **S2M** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 1:49 am

And just like clockwork, people automatically choose Journey's side on this issue. Journey board = journey's in the right. typical. Journey can do no wrong syndrome.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

by **Saint John** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 1:54 am

StocktontoMalone wrote:And just like clockwork, people automatically choose Journey's side on this issue. Journey board = journey's in the right. typical. Journey can do no wrong syndrome.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

Hey, dick licker, I have no idea which song came first nor do I care as they both suck. I am simply stating what was said and what has been written. But it seems to me that there would have been an "answer" of some sort from the Knasas camp if Neal was running around spouting off shit that wasn't true. Especially considering that COWS is probably Kansas' most popular song.

by **S2M** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 2:06 am

Saint John wrote:
StocktontoMalone wrote:And just like clockwork, people automatically choose Journey's side on this issue. Journey board = journey's in the right. typical. Journey can do no wrong syndrome.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

Hey, dick licker, I have no idea which song came first nor do I care as they both suck. I am simply stating what was said and what has been written. But it seems to me that there would have been an "answer" of some sort from the Knasas camp if Neal was running around spouting off shit that wasn't true. Especially considering that COWS is probably Kansas' most popular song.

Hey Sj, if I don't 'quote' you I'm not refering to you.....quit it with the delusions of reference spiel, k?

And as for CoWS sucking....when is your birthday? I see a Belltone in your future.

Most people enjoy 'simple' toe-tapping music, which is fine. Kansas isn't for those folks. Kansas' music is too complex and heady for the majority. Livgren writes circles around Cain....carry on wayward son.

by **Saint John** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 2:11 am

StocktontoMalone wrote:
Saint John wrote:
StocktontoMalone wrote:And just like clockwork, people automatically choose Journey's side on this issue. Journey board = journey's in the right. typical. Journey can do no wrong syndrome.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

Hey, dick licker, I have no idea which song came first nor do I care as they both suck. I am simply stating what was said and what has been written. But it seems to me that there would have been an "answer" of some sort from the Knasas camp if Neal was running around spouting off shit that wasn't true. Especially considering that COWS is probably Kansas' most popular song.

Hey Sj, if I don't 'quote' you I'm not refering to you.....quit it with the delusions of reference spiel, k?

And as for CoWS sucking....when is your birthday? I see a Belltone in your future.

Most people enjoy 'simple' toe-tapping music, which is fine. Kansas isn't for those folks. Kansas' music is too complex and heady for the majority. Livgren writes circles around Cain....carry on wayward son.

My apologies if you weren't referring to me.

by **Rick** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 2:23 am

StocktontoMalone wrote:And just like clockwork, people automatically choose Journey's side on this issue. Journey board = journey's in the right. typical. Journey can do no wrong syndrome.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

Journey are the far better band. Why would they need to rip off a hack band like Kansas? :twisted:

This ought to ruffle some feathers.

by **RisingForce73** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 2:27 am

Saint John wrote:I'm not sure about the Rush song you're referring to. Tom Sawyer doesn't really sound like any Journey song that I know of.

"Tom Sawyer" allegedly borrows from "Nickel & Dime."

Judge for yourself.

Nickel & Dime:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tYSeyqaJmQ

Tom Sawyer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7DFsBcVMDA

by **Saint John** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 2:32 am

RisingForce73 wrote:
Saint John wrote:I'm not sure about the Rush song you're referring to. Tom Sawyer doesn't really sound like any Journey song that I know of.

"Tom Sawyer" allegedly borrows from "Nickel & Dime."

Judge for yourself.

Nickel & Dime:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tYSeyqaJmQ

Tom Sawyer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7DFsBcVMDA

Starting around the 1 minute mark you can definitely hear similarities, but I wouldn't consider it a ripoff. The bass line and drum fills certainly do share some similarities, though.

by **S2M** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 2:33 am

Rick wrote:
StocktontoMalone wrote:And just like clockwork, people automatically choose Journey's side on this issue. Journey board = journey's in the right. typical. Journey can do no wrong syndrome.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

Journey are the far better band. Why would they need to rip off a hack band like Kansas?

This ought to ruffle some feathers.

Dave? Dave? Make an appearance, I need help. :lol:

by **S2M** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 2:40 am

RisingForce73 wrote:
Saint John wrote:I'm not sure about the Rush song you're referring to. Tom Sawyer doesn't really sound like any Journey song that I know of.

"Tom Sawyer" allegedly borrows from "Nickel & Dime."

Judge for yourself.

Nickel & Dime:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tYSeyqaJmQ

Tom Sawyer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7DFsBcVMDA

I hear more 'Xanadu' in that song than Tom Sawyer.....

by **stevew2** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 2:54 am

Saint John wrote:
RisingForce73 wrote:
Saint John wrote:I'm not sure about the Rush song you're referring to. Tom Sawyer doesn't really sound like any Journey song that I know of.

"Tom Sawyer" allegedly borrows from "Nickel & Dime."

Judge for yourself.

Nickel & Dime:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tYSeyqaJmQ

Tom Sawyer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7DFsBcVMDA

Starting around the 1 minute mark you can definitely hear similarities, but I wouldn't consider it a ripoff. The bass line and drum fills certainly do share some similarities, though.

That was the one i was referring to

by **strangegrey** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 2:56 am

Herbie also made these same statements in Castles Burning.

He mentions how Rush stole Tom Sawyer from N&D and how Kansas stole Carry On from Im Gonna Leave You.

I dont think Nickel and Dime and Tom Sawyer maintain a slam dunk in an IP court battle.

However, the similarities between Carry On and Im gonna leave you are SO close that I can't imagine an IP lawyer NOT drooling over the chance to sue the other, given proof of initial creation.

I personally think that Journey had the song first.....but If I had the proof necessary, I think I'd be a rich person....and anyone else making a similar claim, the same thing.

All we know is that someone stole it from the other....for anyone to claim that they both independently came up with the same exact riff, is smoking really, really bad crack....

by **S2M** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:12 am

Kansas played with journey for a handful of shows in Jan. of '77.....Hmmmm.

by **stevew2** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:16 am

StocktontoMalone wrote:Kansas played with journey for a handful of shows in Jan. of '77.....Hmmmm.

They had alot more success with that riif in their song than Journey had

by **strangegrey** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:19 am

stevew2 wrote:
StocktontoMalone wrote:Kansas played with journey for a handful of shows in Jan. of '77.....Hmmmm.
They had alot more success with that riif in their song than Journey had

That would only make Journey's case alot more lucrative in damages. The success that the thief has with the stolen property doesn't at all provide proof of who the thief is...or isn't

MR

Kansas or Journey...someone stole a riff!!!

Who was the flaming song pirate???

Kansas or Journey...someone stole a riff!!!

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