MR

Double Vision.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6Oo79f742Q - then

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5ZrjQ2jd_k - now

Is it just me, or does the new lineup version sound slowed down? less energy, vocals, dynamics. You know I really can't help but put the label "Karaoke" next to the new lineup. Next U2 will replace Bono, Metallica will find a new frontman, BonJovi will replace Jon, but keep the name BonJovi to retain commercial success - you know, business as usual.

I understand where you're coming from, but to me there is nothing Karaoke about Kelley Hansen. One of my favorite vocalists of all time.

Rip Rokken wrote:I understand where you're coming from, but to me there is nothing Karaoke about Kelley Hansen. One of my favorite vocalists of all time.

Oh no doubt, Fantastic vocalist, Kelly Hanson is a very good singer, without question one of the better and more capable singers around.

Vlad, the Karaoke guys are taking over the world, just look what happened to Journey.

Ok, that was total sarcasm, as Rip knows. The loons are out in full force. Maybe they should start their own bands so they could, uh, acheive perfection, since nothing seems to make them happy anymore.

steveo777 wrote:Vlad, the Karaoke guys are taking over the world, just look what happened to Journey.

Ok, that was total sarcasm, as Rip knows. The loons are out in full force. Maybe they should start their own bands so they could, uh, acheive perfection, since nothing seems to make them happy anymore.

No, seriously, I do understand the point -- having only one original member in a band like that makes it a real stretch for fans of the classic lineup. They become brands instead of bands, really. Funny thing... this lineup of Foreigner was the very first concert I attended a few years back mainly to see the supporting members instead of the band itself. Never had done that before. But they kicked so much A that I became a renewed fan. I'd see them again anytime they are near.

Rip Rokken wrote:

steveo777 wrote:Vlad, the Karaoke guys are taking over the world, just look what happened to Journey.

Ok, that was total sarcasm, as Rip knows. The loons are out in full force. Maybe they should start their own bands so they could, uh, acheive perfection, since nothing seems to make them happy anymore.

No, seriously, I do understand the point -- having only one original member in a band like that makes it a real stretch for fans of the classic lineup. They become brands instead of bands, really. Funny thing... this lineup of Foreigner was the very first concert I attended a few years back mainly to see the supporting members instead of the band itself. Never had done that before. But they kicked so much A that I became a renewed fan. I'd see them again anytime they are near.

Rip and Vlad, sorry, I guess that a a bit of a vent in your thread from some of the buildup I've been reading in other threads, regarding Journey. The stick up my butt these days is with people who's only means of validation, it seems, is getting on a forum and trying to degrade what this and that band is currently doing, their lineups, etc. Some are so far out of reality, they really, really sound loony.

But anyway, party on, my good men. Cheers!

Saw them a couple of weeks ago & they didn't seem karaoke-ish to me. Granted, they are not 20 anymore, but so what?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxByxf5IFWA

steveo777 wrote:

Rip Rokken wrote:

steveo777 wrote:Vlad, the Karaoke guys are taking over the world, just look what happened to Journey.

Ok, that was total sarcasm, as Rip knows. The loons are out in full force. Maybe they should start their own bands so they could, uh, acheive perfection, since nothing seems to make them happy anymore.

No, seriously, I do understand the point -- having only one original member in a band like that makes it a real stretch for fans of the classic lineup. They become brands instead of bands, really. Funny thing... this lineup of Foreigner was the very first concert I attended a few years back mainly to see the supporting members instead of the band itself. Never had done that before. But they kicked so much A that I became a renewed fan. I'd see them again anytime they are near.

Rip and Vlad, sorry, I guess that a a bit of a vent in your thread from some of the buildup I've been reading in other threads, regarding Journey. The stick up my butt these days is with people who's only means of validation, it seems, is getting on a forum and trying to degrade what this and that band is currently doing, their lineups, etc. Some are so far out of reality, they really, really sound loony.

But anyway, party on, my good men. Cheers!

Oh don't mention it Steveo. The venting has been very common since Perry was replaced, people have been very uptight around the forums for a good decade now so I do understand, hehe. And Rip, no worries mate, I do agree with you on most points there, the only thing I couldn't care less about is seeing them play live today... totally not interested, unless Gramm was fronting them.

So, when it comes to U2 and Bon Jovi, is having the original singer (even with a ragged voice) the difference between playing stadiums or trying to fill amphitheaters?

Gunbot wrote:So, when it comes to U2 and Bon Jovi, is having the original singer (even with a ragged voice) the difference between playing stadiums or trying to fill amphitheaters?

Don't know man. All I know is, that is sux major balls when bands changes their lead singers, for whatever reason. Never been a fan of it!. Besides all that I went to the dentist today, and I am not happy... so probably the best thing for me to do today, is stay away from these forums!

Vladan wrote:

Gunbot wrote:So, when it comes to U2 and Bon Jovi, is having the original singer (even with a ragged voice) the difference between playing stadiums or trying to fill amphitheaters?

Don't know man. All I know is, that is sux major balls when bands changes their lead singers, for whatever reason. Never been a fan of it!. Besides all that I went to the dentist today, and I am not happy... so probably the best thing for me to do today, is stay away from these forums!

Why, Vlad, is it too easy for us to hit those raw nerves? LOL

Take care of yourself. Tooth pain sucks!!!

Vladan wrote:

Gunbot wrote:So, when it comes to U2 and Bon Jovi, is having the original singer (even with a ragged voice) the difference between playing stadiums or trying to fill amphitheaters?

Don't know man. All I know is, that is sux major balls when bands changes their lead singers, for whatever reason. Never been a fan of it!. Besides all that I went to the dentist today, and I am not happy... so probably the best thing for me to do today, is stay away from these forums!

Nah, don't sweat it Vladan...I agree with you. Even though Kelly does have a great voice (as does Arnel), there's a certain magic that's missing with both bands. I think it shows BIG time, and it's unfortunate. There aren't many bands out there with different singers that have much success (except maybe Van Halen and AC/DC). Still, it's cool to go see these bands because who knows how much longer we'll get to see any of them? This kind of music (even my own style of writing/playing) will never see the light of day on the airwaves anymore, and we're quickly becoming a dying breed.

Hope you're teeth are feeling better!

Everyone has a right to their own opinion, of course...so here is mine. The video shown is ONE example of a Foreigner song shot probably over a year ago. As someone who has been to many LIVE Foreigner shows, I can tell you that THERE IS magic there...EVERY night. I did not become a real Foreigner fan until Kelly joined the band (although I have seen Lou live as well) and for me, he is a large part of that magic. Just as Steve Augeri was for Journey, he has put new life back into the band and live shows, IMO.

I don't really see how it's karaoke....

I think Foreigner does an amazing job live these days!

Vladan wrote:And Rip, no worries mate, I do agree with you on most points there, the only thing I couldn't care less about is seeing them play live today... totally not interested, unless Gramm was fronting them.

Fronting which -- Foreigner or Journey?

hmm... one is 16 years ago, the other today. The one of today is tuned down a bit to accomidate kelly's voice which ideal thinking btw. They both sound awesome. Kelly rocks.

and the years goes by....and this band still kick ass!! both version are great, like someone say before they are not 20 anymore..but still is a great performance..kelly Hansen is awesomeeeeeee, the best choice for Foreigner

Kelly sounds like Paul Rodgers to me. Just sayin

G.I.Jim wrote:

Vladan wrote:

Gunbot wrote:So, when it comes to U2 and Bon Jovi, is having the original singer (even with a ragged voice) the difference between playing stadiums or trying to fill amphitheaters?

Don't know man. All I know is, that is sux major balls when bands changes their lead singers, for whatever reason. Never been a fan of it!. Besides all that I went to the dentist today, and I am not happy... so probably the best thing for me to do today, is stay away from these forums!

Nah, don't sweat it Vladan...I agree with you. Even though Kelly does have a great voice (as does Arnel), there's a certain magic that's missing with both bands. I think it shows BIG time, and it's unfortunate. There aren't many bands out there with different singers that have much success (except maybe Van Halen and AC/DC). Still, it's cool to go see these bands because who knows how much longer we'll get to see any of them? This kind of music (even my own style of writing/playing) will never see the light of day on the airwaves anymore, and we're quickly becoming a dying breed.

Hope you're teeth are feeling better!

Yeah you can say that again, I reckon if most people got into Journey when Perry was at the helm, or if they were touched by the magic, they will always feel that sense of loss, I think (when any band does that type of stuff) there is always that sense of emptiness. Of course non of these new lineups are actually bad, compared to the music today. Well you know, it just ain't the same without Gramm or Perry!

Thanks Jim.

steveo777 wrote:

Vladan wrote:

Gunbot wrote:So, when it comes to U2 and Bon Jovi, is having the original singer (even with a ragged voice) the difference between playing stadiums or trying to fill amphitheaters?

Don't know man. All I know is, that is sux major balls when bands changes their lead singers, for whatever reason. Never been a fan of it!. Besides all that I went to the dentist today, and I am not happy... so probably the best thing for me to do today, is stay away from these forums!

Why, Vlad, is it too easy for us to hit those raw nerves? LOL

Take care of yourself. Tooth pain sucks!!!

Lol, oh please don't. Yeah still yet to get that "wisdom" tooth pulled, any day now

Rip Rokken wrote:

Vladan wrote:And Rip, no worries mate, I do agree with you on most points there, the only thing I couldn't care less about is seeing them play live today... totally not interested, unless Gramm was fronting them.

Fronting which -- Foreigner or Journey?

Both mate, both! Journey then, Journey now, foreigner then, foreigner now! I will now convert to being a full pledged rockin with Dokken fan
hahaha. Well, you know I never did follow Dokken - however! Back For The Attack album is another story, one of my favorite records.

I think that is what is missing for me. You can replace the singer and get someone that sounds exactly like the original but you can't replace the memories, the time and space when a particular song was being played on MTV or the radio, camping out in front of Wanamaker's to get tickets, talking about it all day in school waiting for the big show. What Journey and Foreigner have now is nice but it's like an empty pinada. Looks very pretty on the outside but something's missing. that bit of magic that leaves a life time impression.

Obviously this my opinion only. Am I depriving myself of anything, am I losing out as people say? I don't think so. I saw Journey and Foreigner in their prime with their original vocalists(81-83). Cheap Trick was the main attraction for me last year when I saw the Journey Show at the Greek, because, despite enjoying their albums I had never seen them before . I saw the Moody Blues last week, Boz Scaggs coming up in two weeks. Too many concerts yet to see this year. If some thing new comes out I'll check it out of course but I don't feel that my social life is suffering or I'm missing out on good times because I don't follow the bands like I once did. I go to parties quite a bit, and usually the people I hang out with listen to the same type of music so someone is bound to throw on something that I like. Coming here and chatting is fun and I for one like how the forum has become a potpourri of different subjects. If it only centered on Journey I would probably have been tired of this place long ago and wondered off to some other place on the web.

For some reason, it bothers me that they call it Foreigner when Mick is the only original or long term member. I would have a problem if Neal or SP went solo and called it Journey too.

Gunbot wrote:I think that is what is missing for me. You can replace the singer and get someone that sounds exactly like the original but you can't replace the memories, the time and space when a particular song was being played on MTV or the radio, camping out in front of Wanamaker's to get tickets, talking about it all day in school waiting for the big show. What Journey and Foreigner have now is nice but it's like an empty pinada. Looks very pretty on the outside but something's missing. that bit of magic that leaves a life time impression.

So, just curious....are you failing to get any magic NOW, or trying to remember the magic THEN and being disappointed with the result? I've seen Foreigner with Lou Gramm on the Journey tour with Gramm decked out in a bright and colorful Hawiian shirt (which did him NO favors at all!!!) struggling to hit the notes--and generally failing. It may have been more "Foreigner" than the current version, but I can guarantee you there was no magic going on that night.

You can have great memories of a show 20 years ago, while watching a very sucky performance now. Unless you are comparing the present, than all you are getting is nostalgia--which has little relevance to the here and now. I've seen Def Leppard put on some wonderful shows, and some shows where they were on cruise-control. Magic in the former, not so in the latter. Same with Journey, same with many other bands. Some nights have that magic. Some don't. For some bands, the magic is long gone and it may never come back. For those, I don't bother seeing them again, or at least not for a long while.

kgdjpubs wrote:

Gunbot wrote:I think that is what is missing for me. You can replace the singer and get someone that sounds exactly like the original but you can't replace the memories, the time and space when a particular song was being played on MTV or the radio, camping out in front of Wanamaker's to get tickets, talking about it all day in school waiting for the big show. What Journey and Foreigner have now is nice but it's like an empty pinada. Looks very pretty on the outside but something's missing. that bit of magic that leaves a life time impression.

So, just curious....are you failing to get any magic NOW, or trying to remember the magic THEN and being disappointed with the result? I've seen Foreigner with Lou Gramm on the Journey tour with Gramm decked out in a bright and colorful Hawiian shirt (which did him NO favors at all!!!) struggling to hit the notes--and generally failing. It may have been more "Foreigner" than the current version, but I can guarantee you there was no magic going on that night.

You can have great memories of a show 20 years ago, while watching a very sucky performance now. Unless you are comparing the present, than all you are getting is nostalgia--which has little relevance to the here and now. I've seen Def Leppard put on some wonderful shows, and some shows where they were on cruise-control. Magic in the former, not so in the latter. Same with Journey, same with many other bands. Some nights have that magic. Some don't. For some bands, the magic is long gone and it may never come back. For those, I don't bother seeing them again, or at least not for a long while.

It's a combination. Seeing the Moody Blues last week, Justin struggled a little bit but he was the same guy I watched 15 years ago and the nostalgia lets me forgive those faults I suppose. I figure Justin has given me my money's worth over the years and I don't mind. With Foreigner and Journey, it's different. If you are a Neal freak, then obviously you are there for him, with the vocalist coming second. Not being a musician, I was more about the singer than the band, so I have to decide if the ticket price is worth it in that regard. AP, Kelly? Great singers, but I have no connection. If new ORIGINAL music by them appeals to me then of course there will be a bond but at the moment no.
Now, I will see Celtic Woman in 10 days. They have gone through quite a few personnel changes but with them the concert is all about the show and presentation, not one singer being the focal point so I get a different enjoyment from that. No nostalgia or nothing like that handicapping their performance for me.

This is my take of course. Different strokes for different folks. I totally get why people love going to the Journey shows and whoever else, but I just feel different about it. And I think it's fair to say that I'm not on my own in that regard.

Gunbot wrote:

kgdjpubs wrote:

Gunbot wrote:I think that is what is missing for me. You can replace the singer and get someone that sounds exactly like the original but you can't replace the memories, the time and space when a particular song was being played on MTV or the radio, camping out in front of Wanamaker's to get tickets, talking about it all day in school waiting for the big show. What Journey and Foreigner have now is nice but it's like an empty pinada. Looks very pretty on the outside but something's missing. that bit of magic that leaves a life time impression.

So, just curious....are you failing to get any magic NOW, or trying to remember the magic THEN and being disappointed with the result? I've seen Foreigner with Lou Gramm on the Journey tour with Gramm decked out in a bright and colorful Hawiian shirt (which did him NO favors at all!!!) struggling to hit the notes--and generally failing. It may have been more "Foreigner" than the current version, but I can guarantee you there was no magic going on that night.

You can have great memories of a show 20 years ago, while watching a very sucky performance now. Unless you are comparing the present, than all you are getting is nostalgia--which has little relevance to the here and now. I've seen Def Leppard put on some wonderful shows, and some shows where they were on cruise-control. Magic in the former, not so in the latter. Same with Journey, same with many other bands. Some nights have that magic. Some don't. For some bands, the magic is long gone and it may never come back. For those, I don't bother seeing them again, or at least not for a long while.

It's a combination. Seeing the Moody Blues last week, Justin struggled a little bit but he was the same guy I watched 15 years ago and the nostalgia lets me forgive those faults I suppose. I figure Justin has given me my money's worth over the years and I don't mind. With Foreigner and Journey, it's different. If you are a Neal freak, then obviously you are there for him, with the vocalist coming second. Not being a musician, I was more about the singer than the band, so I have to decide if the ticket price is worth it in that regard. AP, Kelly? Great singers, but I have no connection. If new ORIGINAL music by them appeals to me then of course there will be a bond but at the moment no.
Now, I will see Celtic Woman in 10 days. They have gone through quite a few personnel changes but with them the concert is all about the show and presentation, not one singer being the focal point so I get a different enjoyment from that. No nostalgia or nothing like that handicapping their performance for me.

This is my take of course. Different strokes for different folks. I totally get why people love going to the Journey shows and whoever else, but I just feel different about it. And I think it's fair to say that I'm not on my own in that regard.

Good enough answer. I hear vocals first, so I tend to follow the singer. I agree with you on the original material thing. Once that goes away, I have little interest in staying tuned. It's simply nostalgia at that point, and attending a show on that premise is only reserved for a band I have never seen, but wanted to.

As far as Foreigner goes....I like some of the stuff they have done, like Kelly Hansen as a singer on the few albums of his I have (Stuart Smith's Heaven & Earth cd and the 2nd Unruly Child album), and think he's probably the best available singer for Foreigner if you're going to go on without Lou Gramm. Haven't seen the new Foreigner yet though, and no real plans to because of lack of new material. If/when a new cd comes out, I might change my mind. Haven't had much interest in seeing Lou Gramm solo either, but the cd release party is within driving distance of where I live, so I may show up for that. Chances are the show might be more than a simple Foreigner Greatest Hits setlist.

For a band/singer I like who I have never seen live before, I may go to the show regardless of whether I'm the biggest fan of the new material, simply because they probably won't play all that much new stuff anyway. Most bands, with a few exceptions, aren't going to overload the setlist with new material, so you're going to get the general GH show--and you expect that coming in. To get me to come back a 2nd time though, there must be a REALLY good live show or the promise of a different setlist--or preferably both.

Carla777 wrote:and the years goes by....and this band still kick ass!! both version are great, like someone say before they are not 20 anymore..but still is a great performance..kelly Hansen is awesomeeeeeee, the best choice for Foreigner

You kick ass you stoned cold fox

No comparision,just like with Journey,they are out making money, and the fans like it

There's no comparison between the two. Graham is the king, period. And how many steps down is the song done with Hansen singing. I didn't get the guitar out but it sounds like it's down a full step ... and like Journey, sounds like shit down there. Hell, they'll be playing drop D tuning at this rate. FUCK!

Gunbot wrote:I think that is what is missing for me. You can replace the singer and get someone that sounds exactly like the original but you can't replace the memories, the time and space when a particular song was being played on MTV or the radio, camping out in front of Wanamaker's to get tickets, talking about it all day in school waiting for the big show.

Coming here and chatting is fun and I for one like how the forum has become a potpourri of different subjects. If it only centered on Journey I would probably have been tired of this place long ago and wondered off to some other place on the web.

Ditto this.

What Journey and Foreigner have now is nice but it's like an empty pinada. Looks very pretty on the outside but something's missing. that bit of magic that leaves a life time impression.

Until Foreigner cuts new tracks, they haven't really done anything. Hiring a front guy and touring is ok but as you said, what's really "new" about them? One track on another GH doesn't cut it.

Journel did what they've been doing since '01, cutting new music with a new singer. 3rd new singer albeit but this time it stuck so yeah, its not the same as the 80's but its something more than what Foreigner's done since Gramm's been gone.

To be honest, as much as they try, Journey is just a different band with the same name.

This is gonna sound harsh but as good as they are, Cain and Castro are interchangeable to me. Ross is Ross. He's prehistoric and saw the birth of the band so its good he's still there.

The soul of the band was Rolie and Schon, then Perry and Schon and Smitty capped it off. Without Smitty and Perry, it'll never be the same band to me. Good enough to catch a show here and there though.

Not to say there's not potential for more. "We'll see".

DrFU wrote:Saw them a couple of weeks ago & they didn't seem karaoke-ish to me. Granted, they are not 20 anymore, but so what?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxByxf5IFWA

it's Mick's baby-he's workin and not whining--what's the problem? Brian Tichy is mind boggling, plays the drum solo with his hands and fists (goggle him)! It's a good show. period

a little snip--Waiting For A GirlLikeYou

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-88vVzwfbXc

StoneCold wrote:

Gunbot wrote:I think that is what is missing for me. You can replace the singer and get someone that sounds exactly like the original but you can't replace the memories, the time and space when a particular song was being played on MTV or the radio, camping out in front of Wanamaker's to get tickets, talking about it all day in school waiting for the big show.

Coming here and chatting is fun and I for one like how the forum has become a potpourri of different subjects. If it only centered on Journey I would probably have been tired of this place long ago and wondered off to some other place on the web.

Ditto this.

What Journey and Foreigner have now is nice but it's like an empty pinada. Looks very pretty on the outside but something's missing. that bit of magic that leaves a life time impression.

Until Foreigner cuts new tracks, they haven't really done anything. Hiring a front guy and touring is ok but as you said, what's really "new" about them? One track on another GH doesn't cut it.

Journel did what they've been doing since '01, cutting new music with a new singer. 3rd new singer albeit but this time it stuck so yeah, its not the same as the 80's but its something more than what Foreigner's done since Gramm's been gone.

To be honest, as much as they try, Journey is just a different band with the same name.

This is gonna sound harsh but as good as they are, Cain and Castro are interchangeable to me. Ross is Ross. He's prehistoric and saw the birth of the band so its good he's still there.

The soul of the band was Rolie and Schon, then Perry and Schon and Smitty capped it off. Without Smitty and Perry, it'll never be the same band to me. Good enough to catch a show here and there though.

Not to say there's not potential for more. "We'll see".

Gunbot, StonCold - both spot on! well said, I couldn't agree more!.

Thanks.