MR

I've made the decisions to stay to home this year and not see Journey. This is first time I've not seen them in 11 years. They're not stating which shows will be detuned or not so fuck'em. I'm not spending $300 to see them (at a state fair none-the-less) and going home pissed. I'm staying home and watching The Houston DVD and Valentine instead. That way I know I won't be disappointed.

yeah yeah. I'd rather have them detune so Arnel can last a few years rather than have them burn up his voice. With his new contractual arrangement of 3 days between gigs my guess is that they won't need to tune down. I'll find out in Sacramento next month.

Wow, a thread started just for that thought.

I would be going anyway, but after seeing the Manila clips and the Hawaii clips (yes, detuned in Hawaii and still sounded great) and Maui Tom's glowing review of the concert in Hawaii, I'm really excited about their tour this year with their setlist. Neal really seems to have a great energy this year in his playing and freshening up some of the dirty dozen, plus the addition of more Revelation songs. And more Neal in the changeup of those songs is a happy me. I can actually enjoy Open Arms again. Who would have thought. And Arnel has developed more confidence on stage from the clips I've seen.

Can't understand how anyone would prefer Hugo over a detuned Arnel.
At least Arnel has power behind the pipes.
Hugo, while supposedly a nice guy, sounds thin as hell.
Can't believe JDK suggested him for Journey.

The_Noble_Cause wrote:Can't understand how anyone would prefer Hugo over a detuned Arnel.
At least Arnel has power behind the pipes.
Hugo, while supposedly a nice guy, sounds thin as hell.
Can't believe JDK suggested him for Journey.

I know. When people keep bringing up Hugo, I don't get it. I've always thought the exact same thing, thin vocals and lack of power.

Jana wrote:

The_Noble_Cause wrote:Can't understand how anyone would prefer Hugo over a detuned Arnel.
At least Arnel has power behind the pipes.
Hugo, while supposedly a nice guy, sounds thin as hell.
Can't believe JDK suggested him for Journey.

I know. When people keep bringing up Hugo, I don't get it. I've always thought the exact same thing, thin vocals and lack of power.

Agree with both of you.

i'm coming clean....

i don't know if i could tell something was detuned. is this the "1/2 step down" thing? a lower key so the singer doesn't have to strain? did they do this before? with jeff or steve a or even perry? i haven't seen them with arnel and don't have any plans to, a free ticket might change that tho . seriously curious here. explain in simple terms, please.

me too, will stick to the DVD of Houston as well - SP is the only one I want to watch sign the classic Journey

Lula wrote:i'm coming clean....

i don't know if i could tell something was detuned. is this the "1/2 step down" thing? a lower key so the singer doesn't have to strain? did they do this before? with jeff or steve a or even perry? i haven't seen them with arnel and don't have any plans to, a free ticket might change that tho . seriously curious here. explain in simple terms, please.

Apparently, Perry did it on his FTLOSM tour. I couldn't tell until pointed out. I don't think the average concert-goer can tell from what they've said on here. Some on here weren't sure until they took a guitar and played along.

Well as said before,with only 40+ shows and no 3 in a row, stepping down probably won't be necessary. I'm still curious how he did three shows in a row in Japan if his contract prohibits that.

Lula wrote: i haven't seen them with arnel and don't have any plans to, a free ticket might change that tho

You'd have to come to Upstate NY, and watch my daughter while I go get beer.....but I'll treat you guys!

Eric wrote:

Lula wrote: i haven't seen them with arnel and don't have any plans to, a free ticket might change that tho

You'd have to come to Upstate NY, and watch my daughter while I go get beer.....but I'll treat you guys!

free show and beer? too good to pass up! i'll be in boston end of june.....

I'm not really interested in seeing this lineup live either. I liked Revelation and will probably buy another cd of new material, but think I'll skip Journey music unless it's sung by Kelty or Perry.

Lula wrote:i'm coming clean....

i don't know if i could tell something was detuned. is this the "1/2 step down" thing? a lower key so the singer doesn't have to strain? did they do this before? with jeff or steve a or even perry? i haven't seen them with arnel and don't have any plans to, a free ticket might change that tho . seriously curious here. explain in simple terms, please.

exactly

a half step down wouldn't make a heck of a lot of difference in range unless I don't know what the fluff I'm talking about. it doesn't in my range, amyway. how do they detune? play in another key, half step down? A sharp or flat nightmare. tune all the instruments down a half step? that would be quite an untaking for the whale.

define detuned, please. and what the heck difference does it make.

good grief.

I'm going. Red Rocks for sure, Vegas and Texas. get in the car and stop whining.

(Aaron-do you have the new Hardline? that Frontiers shopping cart is a MESS!!)

(Crazy)Dulce Lady wrote:

Lula wrote:i'm coming clean....

i don't know if i could tell something was detuned. is this the "1/2 step down" thing? a lower key so the singer doesn't have to strain? did they do this before? with jeff or steve a or even perry? i haven't seen them with arnel and don't have any plans to, a free ticket might change that tho . seriously curious here. explain in simple terms, please.

exactly

a half step down wouldn't make a heck of a lot of difference in range unless I don't know what the fluff I'm talking about. it doesn't in my range, amyway. how do they detune? play in another key, half step down? A sharp or flat nightmare. tune all the instruments down a half step? that would be quite an untaking for the whale.

define detuned, please. and what the heck difference does it make.

good grief.

I'm going. Red Rocks for sure, Vegas and Texas. get in the car and stop whining.

(Aaron-do you have the new Hardline? that Frontiers shopping cart is a MESS!!)

Save room for my new shoes -- Carlos'!!!

DrFU wrote:

(Crazy)Dulce Lady wrote:

Lula wrote:i'm coming clean....

i don't know if i could tell something was detuned. is this the "1/2 step down" thing? a lower key so the singer doesn't have to strain? did they do this before? with jeff or steve a or even perry? i haven't seen them with arnel and don't have any plans to, a free ticket might change that tho . seriously curious here. explain in simple terms, please.

exactly

a half step down wouldn't make a heck of a lot of difference in range unless I don't know what the fluff I'm talking about. it doesn't in my range, amyway. how do they detune? play in another key, half step down? A sharp or flat nightmare. tune all the instruments down a half step? that would be quite an untaking for the whale.

define detuned, please. and what the heck difference does it make.

good grief.

I'm going. Red Rocks for sure, Vegas and Texas. get in the car and stop whining.

(Aaron-do you have the new Hardline? that Frontiers shopping cart is a MESS!!)

Save room for my new shoes -- Carlos'!!!

(Crazy)Dulce Lady wrote:

Lula wrote:i'm coming clean....

i don't know if i could tell something was detuned. is this the "1/2 step down" thing? a lower key so the singer doesn't have to strain? did they do this before? with jeff or steve a or even perry? i haven't seen them with arnel and don't have any plans to, a free ticket might change that tho . seriously curious here. explain in simple terms, please.

exactly

a half step down wouldn't make a heck of a lot of difference in range unless I don't know what the fluff I'm talking about. it doesn't in my range, amyway. how do they detune? play in another key, half step down? A sharp or flat nightmare. tune all the instruments down a half step? that would be quite an untaking for the whale.

define detuned, please. and what the heck difference does it make.

good grief.

I'm going. Red Rocks for sure, Vegas and Texas. get in the car and stop whining.

(Aaron-do you have the new Hardline? that Frontiers shopping cart is a MESS!!)

If it's no big deal, then why not just record it that way?

Horseshit. Detuning is chickenshit, and I agree with the OP. Perry never downtuned his Journey days, and he sang the hardest catalog-Infinity through Departure. Pineda sings what, maybe 4 songs from those three records?

Just more reasons not to give these jerks any more money.

Jana wrote:Wow, a thread started just for that thought.

I would be going anyway, but after seeing the Manila clips and the Hawaii clips (yes, detuned in Hawaii and still sounded great) and Maui Tom's glowing review of the concert in Hawaii, I'm really excited about their tour this year with their setlist. Neal really seems to have a great energy this year in his playing and freshening up some of the dirty dozen, plus the addition of more Revelation songs. And more Neal in the changeup of those songs is a happy me. I can actually enjoy Open Arms again. Who would have thought. And Arnel has developed more confidence on stage from the clips I've seen.

Their setlist? How is it any different than last year? or 2 years ago? or 5? Same crap, different year.

I just don't get you people.

Rockindeano wrote:If it's no big deal, then why not just record it that way?

Because this catalogue can't be maintained by any singer in perpetuity. Changes have to be made.

Horseshit. Detuning is chickenshit,

How so?

Perry never downtuned his Journey days,

If he did, perhaps he would still be singing with us today. Or singing in general. Not to mention the fact that he did detune for the Bill Graham memorial show; he recognized that he couldn't do that shit anymore and adapted. That's not chickenshit.

and he sang the hardest catalog-Infinity through Departure.

1.) For three years.
2.) With (presumably) a shorter setlist.
3.) He was, what? Ten years younger than Arnel when he was doing this?

Pineda sings what, maybe 4 songs from those three records?

Pineda is having to sing a catalogue that is not only challenging, but more diverse than the Infinity-era Perry one. He's constantly having to switch pitches and tones to adapt to Perry's own metamorphosis over the years. Not to mention the fact that he's over 40 and, best yet, it could be a cautionary measure to prevent his voice from suffering as Perry and Augeri's did.

Just more reasons not to give these jerks any more money.

Not really, no. But I don't understand how you all associate everything with pitch.

You might rip this piss out of me for this, but I'm flying from the UK to catch Journey at Pala casino in California. I have seen Journey 3 times in the UK - Augeri, Soto and Pineda. I have also seen Soul Sirkus, but it will fulfill an ambition of mine to see Journey on their home turf. I know you can argue its not Perry, but right now its the best I'm going to get.

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Now playing: Vinnie Colaiuta - Bruce Lee

My thoughts:

Towards the end of last year's tour on here Neal, by many, was ripped apart for touring their singers into the ground or for not tuning down half a step for singing such a hard catalogue of music. Since I'm a huge Neal fan, but not a Neal Loon, I felt many criticisms were valid. I listened to some of the longtimers on here re touring. Then when Neal is maybe thinking of the singer this tour, he is criticized, and Arnel also for singing tuned down a half step. I get whiplash on this board sometimes because there's so many divergent opinions.

Hell, even Madsplash thinks tuning down half a step for Arnel is not a big deal and a good thing, but, let's face it, that's b/c Perry tuned down half a step for the FTLOSM tour. At least, he was consistent for both singers. Arnel is 41. Sure, I would rather it stay the same. But I'm fine with it.

Duncan wrote:You might rip this piss out of me for this, but I'm flying from the UK to catch Journey at Pala casino in California. I have seen Journey 3 times in the UK - Augeri, Soto and Pineda. I have also seen Soul Sirkus, but it will fulfill an ambition of mine to see Journey on their home turf. I know you can argue its not Perry, but right now its the best I'm going to get.

You have got to be fucking shitting me? Dude, you obviously wipe your ass with 100 dollar bills. I am jealous but let me please give you some advice- Casino shows suck. The band hates them. The crowd is lame and sits on their hands. It won't be filled and the feel will be dull. At least go see a show where people are alive. Go to an ampitheatre show.

PS- Where the fuck is Pala Casino anyway? I live here and haven't a clue.

Duncan wrote:You might rip this piss out of me for this, but I'm flying from the UK to catch Journey at Pala casino in California. I have seen Journey 3 times in the UK - Augeri, Soto and Pineda. I have also seen Soul Sirkus, but it will fulfill an ambition of mine to see Journey on their home turf. I know you can argue its not Perry, but right now its the best I'm going to get.

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Now playing: Vinnie Colaiuta - Bruce Lee

What's wrong with that? Perry hasn't toured with Journey since '86 and part of '87, over twenty years ago. So if you want to see Journey with Perry it's not gonna happen. You'll be waiting another twenty years.

(Crazy)Dulce Lady wrote:

Lula wrote:i'm coming clean....

i don't know if i could tell something was detuned. is this the "1/2 step down" thing? a lower key so the singer doesn't have to strain? did they do this before? with jeff or steve a or even perry? i haven't seen them with arnel and don't have any plans to, a free ticket might change that tho . seriously curious here. explain in simple terms, please.

exactly

a half step down wouldn't make a heck of a lot of difference in range unless I don't know what the fluff I'm talking about. it doesn't in my range, amyway. how do they detune? play in another key, half step down? A sharp or flat nightmare. tune all the instruments down a half step? that would be quite an untaking for the whale.

define detuned, please. and what the heck difference does it make.

good grief.

I'm going. Red Rocks for sure, Vegas and Texas. get in the car and stop whining.

(Aaron-do you have the new Hardline? that Frontiers shopping cart is a MESS!!)

Are they going to Vegas?? We want to go back there if they do! And it would be neat to see MiMi in Vegas Oh and I could care less about whatever this tuning matter is either, since they are just a couple hours entertainment for all our get togethers anyhow

And wait, wait...Hardline has a new one? How is it?

Melissa wrote:

(Crazy)Dulce Lady wrote:

Lula wrote:i'm coming clean....

i don't know if i could tell something was detuned. is this the "1/2 step down" thing? a lower key so the singer doesn't have to strain? did they do this before? with jeff or steve a or even perry? i haven't seen them with arnel and don't have any plans to, a free ticket might change that tho . seriously curious here. explain in simple terms, please.

exactly

a half step down wouldn't make a heck of a lot of difference in range unless I don't know what the fluff I'm talking about. it doesn't in my range, amyway. how do they detune? play in another key, half step down? A sharp or flat nightmare. tune all the instruments down a half step? that would be quite an untaking for the whale.

define detuned, please. and what the heck difference does it make.

good grief.

I'm going. Red Rocks for sure, Vegas and Texas. get in the car and stop whining.

(Aaron-do you have the new Hardline? that Frontiers shopping cart is a MESS!!)

Are they going to Vegas?? We want to go back there if they do! And it would be neat to see MiMi in Vegas Oh and I could care less about whatever this tuning matter is either, since they are just a couple hours entertainment for all our get togethers anyhow

And wait, wait...Hardline has a new one? How is it?

Don't bother....first of all, it was supposed to be called, 'Just Add Water'....then it comes out with a different(read: lame) title....besides that there are exactly ZERO hooks on this album....BORING. Stick with Eclipse and II.

Rockindeano wrote:

Duncan wrote:You might rip this piss out of me for this, but I'm flying from the UK to catch Journey at Pala casino in California. I have seen Journey 3 times in the UK - Augeri, Soto and Pineda. I have also seen Soul Sirkus, but it will fulfill an ambition of mine to see Journey on their home turf. I know you can argue its not Perry, but right now its the best I'm going to get.

You have got to be fucking shitting me? Dude, you obviously wipe your ass with 100 dollar bills. I am jealous but let me please give you some advice- Casino shows suck. The band hates them. The crowd is lame and sits on their hands. It won't be filled and the feel will be dull. At least go see a show where people are alive. Go to an ampitheatre show.

PS- Where the fuck is Pala Casino anyway? I live here and haven't a clue.

North San Diego. It's the only gig that fits with the time i can get off work. I'll have a good time. Where abouts do you live?
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Now playing: Michael Ruff - Lover's Mask

(Crazy)Dulce Lady wrote:

Lula wrote:i'm coming clean....

i don't know if i could tell something was detuned. is this the "1/2 step down" thing? a lower key so the singer doesn't have to strain? did they do this before? with jeff or steve a or even perry? i haven't seen them with arnel and don't have any plans to, a free ticket might change that tho . seriously curious here. explain in simple terms, please.

exactly

a half step down wouldn't make a heck of a lot of difference in range unless I don't know what the fluff I'm talking about. it doesn't in my range, amyway. how do they detune? play in another key, half step down? A sharp or flat nightmare. tune all the instruments down a half step? that would be quite an untaking for the whale.

define detuned, please. and what the heck difference does it make.

good grief.



I'm going. Red Rocks for sure, Vegas and Texas. get in the car and stop whining.

(Aaron-do you have the new Hardline? that Frontiers shopping cart is a MESS!!)

yes, detuned is another way of saying half step down. every instrument (except drums i think) it goes like this: guitar is restrung most likely with a higher gauge strings, in neals case he goes from .09 to .10 gauge in order to accommodate for the looser tension of being in Eb instead of E (yes, that means tuned down) also the action is set to accommodate for different gauge strings, or else the guitar would be hard to play. The "Faz", (the whale's replacement), would then be tuned down, every string all 88 of them, because it would be really hard to translate the songs otherwise. the synths and loops are easy because they can be detuned via computer or whatever. and Ross's bass would be tuned down also, probably higher gauge strings. and this isn't a big deal because journey has good tech guys and lots of guitars so they can have ones designated for E and Eb tuning, its not like they have to keep switching every instrument( except piano) for every show. lastly, it makes a pretty big difference if you are a musician or "audiophile", it gives the instruments and songs a totally different feel, thats why in the clips from hawaii or wherever they first tuned down at, Neal has trouble adjusting and played way more wrong notes, missed bends, and off phrases than normal( his normal is almost no wrong notes ever). however, in the later clips he has gotten used to it. hope this helps!

Just out of interest. Why would they do a casino show if it sucks? Do they get paid to play?

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Now playing: The Moody Blues - In The Beginning (Full Version)

Duncan wrote:
North San Diego. It's the only gig that fits with the time i can get off work. I'll have a good time. Where abouts do you live?
----------------

I had an idea it was in the SD area. I am in Santa Monica, on the beach.

Duncan wrote:Just out of interest. Why would they do a casino show if it sucks? Do they get paid to play?

Yeah they are actually easy money. They playing 2 nights? I would assume so, free food and rooms, and the Casino pays well, but my point is the crowd is not really die hard fans. Many tickets given away to gamblers who could take em or leave em. IMO, lifeless.

Some of us here on this board saw them 3 years ago in Atlantic City, NJ, and it holds about 2,000 of which maybe 800 showed and most were in the lobby getting drinks. It sucked.