MR

Eric wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDnVyaB9seQ&feature=related

I disagree. Great song though.

Eric wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDnVyaB9seQ&feature=related

Why bring this up??? Move on. Enjoy the music.

RobbieG wrote:

Eric wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDnVyaB9seQ&feature=related

Why bring this up??? Move on. Enjoy the music.

He struggled through most of the Irvine show. If I remember correctly that was the first show of the tour. Those who made the lipping claims said it started later on in that tour. Then again, as RobbieG said, it's time to move on. Very few people are interested in this subject anymore.

Amazing show, incredible setlist workmanlike vox out of a once great live vocalist who'd seen better nights.

Great song, I see major lipping, and dean helping out, true, lets move on , as Neal said shit happens,but hear it is ,the truth ,deal with it

There is some serious lipping going on here:

Voyager wrote:There is some serious lipping going on here:

Gotta love Voyager. He always comes up with the best post!!!!! :

The more I hear Augeri the more I really like and admire him. Arrival has some great tunes and he doesn't sound anything like Perry to me--one of the first crimes Journey is always accused of committing. They were in a horrible jam, made a mistake and tried to recover. I hate to imagine the pressure they were under. But that was then; I wish Neal would think about revisiting some of those Arrival tunes. I can't get over what a fun and rockin' tune We Will Meet Again is; I think it's one of my favorites and Augeri sounds great on it. The lyrics are really good, too. They've got lots of stuff going on in that song--really love it. Out of Harm's Way is pretty rockin', too!! I kind of like the way Deen wails on the drums, lol.

The person who posted this video has a set list on the right side of his page and on there he has Daydream listed with Deen singing. Has anyone ever heard this? Daydream's another one of my favorites and if Deen sang it I would absolutely love to hear it... Does anyone know? I wanted to email laddieola101 but couldn't figure out how to do it...

fredinator wrote:The more I hear Augeri the more I really like and admire him. Arrival has some great tunes and he doesn't sound anything like Perry to me--one of the first crimes Journey is always accused of committing. They were in a horrible jam, made a mistake and tried to recover. I hate to imagine the pressure they were under. But that was then; I wish Neal would think about revisiting some of those Arrival tunes. I can't get over what a fun and rockin' tune We Will Meet Again is; I think it's one of my favorites and Augeri sounds great on it. The lyrics are really good, too. They've got lots of stuff going on in that song--really love it. Out of Harm's Way is pretty rockin', too!! I kind of like the way Deen wails on the drums, lol.

The whole fuckin thing would have been good,Augeri wasnt given vocal rest,and the band suffered on tour after tour, and the next year after,the asses got what they deserved,They lucked out with Arnel for now,and will tour again.I hope Arnel does good for himself.

Sigh, Augeri left behind some great Journey songs to enjoy, he's alive and well as are all the Journey members--such a good feeling. After reading a thread below with some Beach Boys music in it--now that is SAD. Such beautiful music and so much freakin' tragedy. Painful.

Eric is right.
This is live.
At the very least, it's obviously not the cd vocal.

It could be lipped, but it for sure isn't the cd vocal. I'm sure at some point they knew SteveA's voice was going to go out so they probably had him record some tracks....just in case.

texafana wrote:It could be lipped, but it for sure isn't the cd vocal. I'm sure at some point they knew SteveA's voice was going to go out so they probably had him record some tracks....just in case.

The thing I think tells the story, for me, is the microphone. When he's singing live, he keeps it away from his mouth, and even farther when he pushes for a high note. On the video Eric posted, he's got the big wind screen and has that mic right against his mouth almost constantly.

I think SA is a great guy and a class act, and I'm certain he's not the only one to blame, if he should take any at all. I know he got up there and sang, but what I don't know is what kind of gun was being held to his head. The "You'll Never Work In This Town Again" phrase comes to mind. Azoff is a very powerful man in the music industry.

The_Noble_Cause wrote:Eric is right.
This is live.
At the very least, it's obviously not the cd vocal.

Yeah, at least not the CD vocal..thanks for saying that. Very obvious when he says "Tragedy"

(I posted it not to bring anything up, but to hear a great song live that I hadn't before.)

Rick wrote:

texafana wrote:It could be lipped, but it for sure isn't the cd vocal. I'm sure at some point they knew SteveA's voice was going to go out so they probably had him record some tracks....just in case.

The thing I think tells the story, for me, is the microphone. When he's singing live, he keeps it away from his mouth, and even farther when he pushes for a high note. On the video Eric posted, he's got the big wind screen and has that mic right against his mouth almost constantly.

I think SA is a great guy and a class act, and I'm certain he's not the only one to blame, if he should take any at all. I know he got up there and sang, but what I don't know is what kind of gun was being held to his head. The "You'll Never Work In This Town Again" phrase comes to mind. Azoff is a very powerful man in the music industry.

It's impossible to lip on your own. You need a dedicated guy to switch the feed when you interact with the audience. Everyone in the band would have to know so they could cover it if anything goes wrong. Neal's band, he is the leader, not Augeri. If they would just say "We did some things that we're not proud of and I, the leader take full responsibility for it" it would be a great first step.
I wonder if there was ever a moment when Jon and Neal said to Steve, "You don't have yo go through with this, if we have to cancel shows, we will and we'll stand behind you if the shit hits the fan". I doubt it but if Neal wants to set the record straight, I welcome it.
No wonder Perry was able to take over the band so easily, there was no leader to topple, only H.H.

To the people who say forget about, its done. If it was your money would that make a difference? Just because the vast majority of the audience might not be aware that they were bilked doesn't make it okay. Would you let kids get away with fraud even if no one else knew, or would you hold them accountable?

And if Perry lipped, Iwant to know about that too. The statute of limitations probaby makes it impossible to get a refund for the shows he did, but I still want to know about it.

Gunbot wrote:

Rick wrote:

texafana wrote:It could be lipped, but it for sure isn't the cd vocal. I'm sure at some point they knew SteveA's voice was going to go out so they probably had him record some tracks....just in case.

The thing I think tells the story, for me, is the microphone. When he's singing live, he keeps it away from his mouth, and even farther when he pushes for a high note. On the video Eric posted, he's got the big wind screen and has that mic right against his mouth almost constantly.

I think SA is a great guy and a class act, and I'm certain he's not the only one to blame, if he should take any at all. I know he got up there and sang, but what I don't know is what kind of gun was being held to his head. The "You'll Never Work In This Town Again" phrase comes to mind. Azoff is a very powerful man in the music industry.

It's impossible to lip on your own. You need a dedicated guy to switch the feed when you interact with the audience. Everyone in the band would have to know so they could cover it if anything goes wrong. Neal's band, he is the leader, not Augeri. If they would just say "We did some things that we're not proud of and I, the leader take full responsibility for it" it would be a great first step.
I wonder if there was ever a moment when Jon and Neal said to Steve, "You don't have yo go through with this, if we have to cancel shows, we will and we'll stand behind you if the shit hits the fan". I doubt it but if Neal wants to set the record straight, I welcome it.
No wonder Perry was able to take over the band so easily, there was no leader to topple, only H.H.

That will never happen, and ill never respect the band like I did. All Neal can say is "shit happens" dont expect anymore than that

Gunbot wrote:If they would just say "We did some things that we're not proud of and I, the leader take full responsibility for it" it would be a great first step.

Jeff said something to that effect.
He stated that he would never lip.
In doing so, he acknowledged the wrongdoing of the past, and also let jaded Journey fans know it was ok to be a fan again.
Wherever you stand on his brief tenure, you have to admire that.

Oh, baloney. I never thought that lipping thing was the end of the freaking world. You all are willing to throw away 30+ years of beautiful music and memories over a mistake, a bad mistake I agree. If I bought a concert ticket and found out part of it had been lipped, no, I wouldn't go to pieces or off the deep end. I never did get that particular outrage. I still don't get it. If it were Frank Sinatra or the guy (You Left My Heart in San Francisco) who sang that song lipped, yes, I would be horribly disappointed and puzzled why they would get up and do such a thing. But this is a band with another band along with all the people who are employed by the band. I am guessing that Neal just wanted to make it through the tour and then find someone to replace Augeri. It looks to me like they felt a ton of pressure being brought by all the howling and threats from the internet and scrambled to find a replacement. This is the way it looked to me and probably the way I would have handled it had it been me. Sorry, but I still love We Will Meet Again and I'm glad Augeri was there to have a hand in writing and singing it. GB, you need to look at some of the things you said you've done before you crucify Journey for this so-called moral outrage.

fredinator wrote:Oh, baloney. I never thought that lipping thing was the end of the freaking world. You all are willing to throw away 30+ years of beautiful music and memories over a mistake, a bad mistake I agree. If I bought a concert ticket and found out part of it had been lipped, no, I wouldn't go to pieces or off the deep end. I never did get that particular outrage. I still don't get it. If it were Frank Sinatra or the guy (You Left My Heart in San Francisco) who sang that song lipped, yes, I would be horribly disappointed and puzzled why they would get up and do such a thing. But this is a band with another band along with all the people who are employed by the band.

It's also a band that, (by Neal's own admission), is vocally driven.
When discussing Journey, not all things are equal.
This isn't the bass being faked, it's the main draw.

fredinator wrote:Oh, baloney. I never thought that lipping thing was the end of the freaking world. You all are willing to throw away 30+ years of beautiful music and memories over a mistake, a bad mistake I agree. If I bought a concert ticket and found out part of it had been lipped, no, I wouldn't go to pieces or off the deep end. I never did get that particular outrage. I still don't get it. If it were Frank Sinatra or the guy (You Left My Heart in San Francisco) who sang that song lipped, yes, I would be horribly disappointed and puzzled why they would get up and do such a thing. But this is a band with another band along with all the people who are employed by the band. I am guessing that Neal just wanted to make it through the tour and then find someone to replace Augeri. It looks to me like they felt a ton of pressure being brought by all the howling and threats from the internet and scrambled to find a replacement. This is the way it looked to me and probably the way I would have handled it had it been me. Sorry, but I still love We Will Meet Again and I'm glad Augeri was there to have a hand in writing and singing it. GB, you need to look at some of the things you said you've done before you crucify Journey for this so-called moral outrage.

I absolutely agree with your view on this, Fredinator, on how it happened and why and why I can forgive it. The effort and dedication and hard work this band put into rebuilding Journey for those eight years shouldn't be thrown away or forgotten. Now, if someone can't forgive how it was handled afterwards, well, that's up to each individual. But I can tell you management would never want them admitting anything. Talk about possible lawsuits.

I don't think I'm crucifying them at all. I'm saying don't allude to Augeri doing something that no one else was aware of, when the man can't defend himself because of non-disclosure, and think that it is going to get you off the hook.
Just take responsibilty if you're the leader. If I was so morally outraged I wouldn't have bought Revelation or went to one of their concerts last year. Everyone in this thread has continued supporting the band in their own little way, I don't see anyone tosing away their music.
You know what this thread entailed just by the title of it. If it hurt you to read our comments, than skip over it. For a lot of people, Journey has always been about the amazing vocals they deliver at live shows, that's why it is a big deal and being discussed still. Deal with it.
As for as you bringing up my own conduct, anything I've done that's unsavory, I've been honest about, even if it's to my own detriment.
I would think others would do the same.

I know and I totally get what you are saying. I remember watching a Beach Boys concert 25+ years ago and they were ALL lipping and it was so obvious and I remember thinking, well, now that is really odd. I think everyone knew it too especially those that watched it on TV. Anyway, weird but not earth shattering and they went on from there with a new song (Cocamo?) and it never impeded them. I still love them and don't think ill of them, plus I think they are in the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame, aren't they? I may be wrong about that but I think they are. I just can't imagine that Neal was ever comfortable with any kind of lipping but I really think it was an emergency and they resorted to that to make it through the tour. I don't think we will ever know now because I don't think Neal will ever willingly bring it up again after he was so torn to pieces during the thing. I know I wouldn't.

fredinator wrote:I know and I totally get what you are saying. I remember watching a Beach Boys concert 25+ years ago and they were ALL lipping and it was so obvious and I remember thinking, well, now that is really odd. I think everyone knew it too especially those that watched it on TV. Anyway, weird but not earth shattering and they went on from there with a new song (Cocamo?) and it never impeded them. I still love them and don't think ill of them, plus I think they are in the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame, aren't they? I may be wrong about that but I think they are. I just can't imagine that Neal was ever comfortable with any kind of lipping but I really think it was an emergency and they resorted to that to make it through the tour. I don't think we will ever know now because I don't think Neal will ever willingly bring it up again after he was so torn to pieces during the thing. I know I wouldn't.

I wouldn't either, hell no. And I guarantee you management and legal have said keep quiet. I had my suspicions once, too, at a concert, but lucky for them it wasn't all over the internet if it was true.

I'm sorry if I accused you of crucifying them if you weren't a part of it. I guess I got carried away. However, others did crucify them pretty badly. Perhaps Neal, et al, would have taken responsibility if there hadn't been so many threats made on the internet. I know I would probably have done the same thing they did under the same circumstances.

fredinator wrote:I'm sorry if I accused you of crucifying them if you weren't a part of it. I guess I got carried away. However, others did crucify them pretty badly. Perhaps Neal, et al, would have taken responsibility if there hadn't been so many threats made on the internet. I know I would probably have done the same thing they did under the same circumstances.

Just stand up for your bandmate is all I'm saying. Don't distance yourself from him when shit hits the fan, like he is the leper here.
Where is the semblence of brotherhood that is constantly being referred to with the new lineup?
Howe many times has Neal called Augeri since he went on his medical sabbatical (Zero, acording to his interview with Andrew)? He seems to have enough time to call Perry (who never returns his calls), couldn't he at least make ONE phone call to the guy who helped keep the group alive for the 8 years post-dating Perry, if only to say thanks?

fredinator wrote:I know and I totally get what you are saying. I remember watching a Beach Boys concert 25+ years ago and they were ALL lipping and it was so obvious and I remember thinking, well, now that is really odd. I think everyone knew it too especially those that watched it on TV. Anyway, weird but not earth shattering and they went on from there with a new song (Cocamo?) and it never impeded them. I still love them and don't think ill of them, plus I think they are in the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame, aren't they? I may be wrong about that but I think they are. I just can't imagine that Neal was ever comfortable with any kind of lipping but I really think it was an emergency and they resorted to that to make it through the tour. I don't think we will ever know now because I don't think Neal will ever willingly bring it up again after he was so torn to pieces during the thing. I know I wouldn't.

While I would LOVE to agree with you, it was not a last-minute emergency... the band did it for a few years, not just for that tour. I applaud Steve's contribution to the band, and I really enjoyed Arrival. It was a great album, and because of him I finally got to see Journey in concert for the first time. We probably wouldn't even be talking about Journey right now if it weren't for him.

As I said though... they did it for years. They just never got "caught" until that last tour. They should have scaled back the tour dates and given Steve the time he needed to rest those vocals. That, or they should have replaced him about 4 years ago.

Either way, we had great music with Steve A., and now we have great music from Arnel. Seems like a win-win to me!

Oh, come, come. That is rather childish, I think. Maybe they exchange Christmas cards. As far as the "brotherhood," maybe they call themselves that out of relief in finding Arnel.

GIJ, I thought the years prior to that tour were speculation. Maybe I'm wrong about that. Whatever, I still believe there were extenuating circumstances and I just can't get all worked up about it.

G.I.Jim wrote:While I would LOVE to agree with you, it was not a last-minute emergency... the band did it for a few years, not just for that tour.

Never to the full blown extent of the Generations tour tho.
Like Herbie said: "So he needed what may have been a crutch in the beginning but became something he was leaning on much more heavily than should have ever happened."
It just snowballed.
The band prolly should've utilized Deen a long time ago to take the weight off SA.
That, or mix up the set with more pre-Perry instrumentals.
Look at TOTO - the setlist is coordinated to give Bobby major slack.
Of course, from Escape onwards, Journey ceased being a multi-singer group.
Hard to come out of retirement, missing your most famous member, and then spread lead singing duties around.
That'd be almost like admitting defeat by default.