MR

DT has a new album out - Dark Clouds and Silver Linings. It's quite good - a far cry better than their last album which I didn't care for at all.
A good balance of being musically challenging and yet melodic and accessible. 2 very melodic cuts - Wither and The Best of Times. It also has the obligitory continuing re-hash song based on The Glass Prison, This Dying Soul, etc. Overall a good effort and worth getting a copy if you are into prog/metal/rock.

I used to love this band. I anticipate each release as i know they are class....but then I hear every time that it's only 6 or 7 tracks total and I just get pissed off.

I don't have the patience anymore to disect 18 minute songs.

Andrew, try "the Best of Years", the 5th track of the new record.
Its my favorite in years from them!

Ive grown a bit tired on that long, epic sttuff too...but this one is indeed much better than the previous releases in my opinion!

Ok!

Andrew wrote:Ok!

The Best of Times could possibly the best DT track I've ever heard, it's 13 minutes long but it works. And there is a another track wich is also great.. I forget the name now.. I think it's Wither, and that's great aswell.

The rest of it I'll take or leave, just lots of squigly guitar playing.

I never ever listened to DT until this year, about 6 weeks ago actually. I joined ZUNE and downloaded their Greatest Hit (plus 21...) cd. Awesome. This is a good group, actually digging into their older cds now.

The new DT is much better than Systematic Chaos and Octavarium... MUCH better.

DTFTW, Good stuff here.

"Systematic Chaos" was good. "Octavarium" sucked. Haven't heard the new one yet.

I have listened to this record a few times since it came out and I feel it is their best since Scenes From A Memory. I was kind of losing faith in them. The last couple records they moved away from melodies which was the glue that held it together for me. So happy to have this record and I will go see them this tour because of it.

Andrew wrote:I used to love this band. I anticipate each release as i know they are class....but then I hear every time that it's only 6 or 7 tracks total and I just get pissed off.

I don't have the patience anymore to disect 18 minute songs.

+1

Drew, sorry, I don't really get the criticism of long songs. It's not like DT made their name cutting albums of 4 minute AOR songs. They have always had mostly 8+ minute songs. Unless I'm misinterpreting and you are sick of the 1-2 epics per album trend of the last 4 or so discs? I do agree with you about 6 songs though - they need at least 8. Even if the 6 run as long as 8 of theirs normally would on account of the epics, it's just not the same. I want to sink my teeth in to different songs and 6 isn't enough, even if there are vastly different sections within each song.

I don't get the 8VM hate either... that album had a few stinkers (I Walk Beside You, Never Enough) but the bright spots were fuckin awesome. SC was ok... much better live than on CD. As for BC&SL, I like it so far. Wither and The Best of Times are great songs and The Shattered Fortress wraps up the AA stuff really nicely throwing all the favorite riffs and melodies in. A Nightmare to Remember is kinda weird but interesting enough for me to play it here and then after I wear the album out, A Rite of Passage is a fun and addictive enough if formulaic tune (like Constant Motion on SC), and The Count of Tuscany was the biggest disappointment. One of the coolest DT intros ever segues into a downright strange song, even by DT standards. Maybe it'll grow, but I dunno... this is definitely their worst epic by a mile.

Not a fan of the brickwalled production either. The album is far too loud. It sounds ballsy enough but it's ridiculous when my ears bleed with my bare bones car stereo at half volume...

I think I would really love this album if there were more to listen to. It kinda sounds like I&W mated with Train of Thought with a sprinkling of SC. A few more tracks woulda been great...

Ehwmatt wrote:Drew, sorry, I don't really get the criticism of long songs. It's not like DT made their name cutting albums of 4 minute AOR songs. They have always had mostly 8+ minute songs. Unless I'm misinterpreting and you are sick of the 1-2 epics per album trend of the last 4 or so discs? I do agree with you about 6 songs though - they need at least 8. Even if the 6 run as long as 8 of theirs normally would on account of the epics, it's just not the same. I want to sink my teeth in to different songs and 6 isn't enough, even if there are vastly different sections within each song.

I don't get the 8VM hate either... that album had a few stinkers (I Walk Beside You, Never Enough) but the bright spots were fuckin awesome. SC was ok... much better live than on CD. As for BC&SL, I like it so far. Wither and The Best of Times are great songs and The Shattered Fortress wraps up the AA stuff really nicely throwing all the favorite riffs and melodies in. A Nightmare to Remember is kinda weird but interesting enough for me to play it here and then after I wear the album out, A Rite of Passage is a fun and addictive enough if formulaic tune (like Constant Motion on SC), and The Count of Tuscany was the biggest disappointment. One of the coolest DT intros ever segues into a downright strange song, even by DT standards. Maybe it'll grow, but I dunno... this is definitely their worst epic by a mile.

Not a fan of the brickwalled production either. The album is far too loud. It sounds ballsy enough but it's ridiculous when my ears bleed with my bare bones car stereo at half volume...

I think I would really love this album if there were more to listen to. It kinda sounds like I&W mated with Train of Thought with a sprinkling of SC. A few more tracks woulda been great...

Only song I truly liked on that album

youkeepmewaiting wrote:

Ehwmatt wrote:Drew, sorry, I don't really get the criticism of long songs. It's not like DT made their name cutting albums of 4 minute AOR songs. They have always had mostly 8+ minute songs. Unless I'm misinterpreting and you are sick of the 1-2 epics per album trend of the last 4 or so discs? I do agree with you about 6 songs though - they need at least 8. Even if the 6 run as long as 8 of theirs normally would on account of the epics, it's just not the same. I want to sink my teeth in to different songs and 6 isn't enough, even if there are vastly different sections within each song.

I don't get the 8VM hate either... that album had a few stinkers (I Walk Beside You, Never Enough) but the bright spots were fuckin awesome. SC was ok... much better live than on CD. As for BC&SL, I like it so far. Wither and The Best of Times are great songs and The Shattered Fortress wraps up the AA stuff really nicely throwing all the favorite riffs and melodies in. A Nightmare to Remember is kinda weird but interesting enough for me to play it here and then after I wear the album out, A Rite of Passage is a fun and addictive enough if formulaic tune (like Constant Motion on SC), and The Count of Tuscany was the biggest disappointment. One of the coolest DT intros ever segues into a downright strange song, even by DT standards. Maybe it'll grow, but I dunno... this is definitely their worst epic by a mile.

Not a fan of the brickwalled production either. The album is far too loud. It sounds ballsy enough but it's ridiculous when my ears bleed with my bare bones car stereo at half volume...

I think I would really love this album if there were more to listen to. It kinda sounds like I&W mated with Train of Thought with a sprinkling of SC. A few more tracks woulda been great...

Only song I truly liked on that album

To each his own, I really love Root of All Evil, Sacrificed Sons, Panic Attack, These Walls and the of course the massive title track. Answer Lies Within is ok too.

Personally I really like both - the long epics and the more concise melodic stuff. To me it's not really about the length or level of technical difficulty, it's about whether or not I find it to be interesting and enjoyable. There are a lot of ways a song or composition can have musical merit. "Trail of Tears" for example is a fairly long song, but it flows so smoothly that the length doesn't matter. That song is the length it is simply because that's how long it takes to take the listener on that particular journey. Likewise, a track like " Metropolis" takes awhile, because it has so much groundbreaking instrumental passages. On the other hand, a song like "Through Her Eyes" is fairly short but is an absolutely gut wrenching, emotional ballad that tells it's story in a more compact space. What I think makes this record special, is that it has some fresh ideas and a return to paying attention to song structure and melodies rather than some of the technically difficult, but mindless musical masturbation that has plagued the last few albums. I admire DT's musical abilites, but I admire them more when they use them wisely and with a sense of constraint. Having said that , I hope that they will continue to try to include something on every album that appeals to their sense of musical exploration and allows them to show off thier musical chops. I would hate to seem them turn into Rush who is now afraid to play anything if it's not in a 4/4 time signature, under 4 minutes long, and has way too many vocal harmonies.

I'll definitely go out and get this one even though
I'm affraid of getting burned again like I felt I did
with Octovarium. I have been a fan since WDADU's
release and still regard that album as my favorite.
TOT and SC were pretty good, IAW was really good,
SFAM was pretty cool since Metropolis is one of my all-time DT faves
but everything else in-between hasn't held much listening longevity for me.
It never fails; when I'm in the mood for DT, I always seem to turn to
WDADU.

Right of Passage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV-f4IJScPY

Sounds so much better live than the over produced studio version.

Carlitto H@kk wrote:I'll definitely go out and get this one even though
I'm affraid of getting burned again like I felt I did
with Octovarium. I have been a fan since WDADU's
release and still regard that album as my favorite.
TOT and SC were pretty good, IAW was really good,
SFAM was pretty cool since Metropolis is one of my all-time DT faves
but everything else in-between hasn't held much listening longevity for me.
It never fails; when I'm in the mood for DT, I always seem to turn to
WDADU.

You can only get away with that when talking about Journey

Andrew wrote:I used to love this band. I anticipate each release as i know they are class....but then I hear every time that it's only 6 or 7 tracks total and I just get pissed off.

I don't have the patience anymore to disect 18 minute songs.

Andrew, the quality of music coming out of Dream Theater has plummeted over the years. I used to think Jordan Rudess was the poison pill, but I realized that his entrance into the band coincides with Petrucci and Portnoy's decision to take over all production. While the albums produced by Portnoy and Petrucci sound good, a producer's responsibility includes song arrangements, omiting songs that don't work, etc. And this is where I think Petrucci and Portnoy fail...

Granted, the length of the songs might still be a valid issue for you.

Personally, I don't at all mind long songs if they are great songs. Learning to Live is what, a 9 or 12 minute song? But it's fucking EPIC! Same with the Mind Beside itself trilogy off of Awake.....

But the vast majority of songs off of six degrees to the current one, are just trash. Gone are the wonderful musical interludes and images, the catchy hooks, the inventive playing.....all in favor of detuned garbage...

The band definitely took a dive, imho. I was hoping this new record would be a change, but I hear more of the same in this one.

Carlitto H@kk wrote:I'll definitely go out and get this one even though
I'm affraid of getting burned again like I felt I did
with Octovarium. I have been a fan since WDADU's
release and still regard that album as my favorite.
TOT and SC were pretty good, IAW was really good,
SFAM was pretty cool since Metropolis is one of my all-time DT faves
but everything else in-between hasn't held much listening longevity for me.
It never fails; when I'm in the mood for DT, I always seem to turn to
WDADU.

I've been a fan since WDADU as well....however, I still can't stomach Charlie's voice. It's not palatable. The music's great, but the voice singing has to measure up to the rest of the band....

I really think this band was at it's most perfect incarnation during I&W. The live recordings of DT with Moore on keys and Labrie on vox shows a band that was completely and utterly unstoppable. There were kinks in the armor when sherinian joined....but they were still damn dangerous. It really went downhill fast after Metropolis....



Actually, I can pin point the exact fall from grace.....within the song Dance of Eterinity.....the clown music. BOOM.

Right fucking there....the band fell from untouchable heights....and became human, and very fallible.

Right there with you about WDADU. The vocals kill it for me. When I hear those songs with LaBrie they are totally awesome though.

DT= poor man's RUSH

strangegrey wrote:

Carlitto H@kk wrote:I'll definitely go out and get this one even though
I'm affraid of getting burned again like I felt I did
with Octovarium. I have been a fan since WDADU's
release and still regard that album as my favorite.
TOT and SC were pretty good, IAW was really good,
SFAM was pretty cool since Metropolis is one of my all-time DT faves
but everything else in-between hasn't held much listening longevity for me.
It never fails; when I'm in the mood for DT, I always seem to turn to
WDADU.

I've been a fan since WDADU as well....however, I still can't stomach Charlie's voice. It's not palatable. The music's great, but the voice singing has to measure up to the rest of the band....

I really think this band was at it's most perfect incarnation during I&W. The live recordings of DT with Moore on keys and Labrie on vox shows a band that was completely and utterly unstoppable. There were kinks in the armor when sherinian joined....but they were still damn dangerous. It really went downhill fast after Metropolis....



Actually, I can pin point the exact fall from grace.....within the song Dance of Eterinity.....the clown music. BOOM.

Right fucking there....the band fell from untouchable heights....and became human, and very fallible.

I much preferred Moore and Sherinian's styles. DT badly needs an outside producer to help them rein in some of the more ridiculous stuff (like Rudess's gayass beeps and blip noises). Moore in particular was a master at coloring the music with atmospheric key patches and tasteful playing, only shredding when it fit the song. JR on the other hand? No way. It's a shame because the guy can play UNBELIEVABLY tastefully when he puts his mind to it (ie: Blind Faith from Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence). Regardless, I still love hearing what they'll come up with next and even though Six Degrees was their last truly great, consistent album for me, I always enjoy the new releases in different ways. At least they didn't stick to the exact I&W sound over all these years... as awesome as it was/is, it would have gotten stale by now.

Hey, I Love this new DT album. I got the isolated tracks that they released, and took the solo track out of wither and recorded my own solo. It was pretty fun playing along with actual DT tracks instead of crappy backing tracks....

I put it up on youtube so you could see how it turned out....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zDtS0QjDQU

StocktontoMalone wrote:DT= poor man's RUSH

You couldn't be further from the truth.
The only similarities is that Portnoy idolizes
Peart and every single member is insane
on his given instrument.

Here's a thought I had...
I listened to some DT and then listened to Revalation...
How cool would it be for Journey to capitalize on Arnel's
energy/voice and take a chance; go back to the early progressive
roots and cut loose. Record a rock album somewhere in the
middle of Journey and DT; not as heavy as DT but a
progressive rock masterpiece. I'm sure Friga can write
darker songs and get away from sappy love songs for at
least one album.

StocktontoMalone wrote:DT= poor man's RUSH

I see your point. But your wrong. Haha. No they are a great band in their own right.

Carlitto H@kk wrote:

StocktontoMalone wrote:DT= poor man's RUSH

You couldn't be further from the truth.
The only similarities is that Portnoy idolizes
Peart and every single member is insane
on his given instrument.

Here's a thought I had...
I listened to some DT and then listened to Revalation...
How cool would it be for Journey to capitalize on Arnel's
energy/voice and take a chance; go back to the early progressive
roots and cut loose. Record a rock album somewhere in the
middle of Journey and DT; not as heavy as DT but a
progressive rock masterpiece. I'm sure Friga can write
darker songs and get away from sappy love songs for at
least one album.

The fans won't allow it. Hell, they didn't allow it with RED13. I love RED13 and no longer notice the poor production.

jrnyman28 wrote:

Carlitto H@kk wrote:

StocktontoMalone wrote:DT= poor man's RUSH

You couldn't be further from the truth.
The only similarities is that Portnoy idolizes
Peart and every single member is insane
on his given instrument.

Here's a thought I had...
I listened to some DT and then listened to Revalation...
How cool would it be for Journey to capitalize on Arnel's
energy/voice and take a chance; go back to the early progressive
roots and cut loose. Record a rock album somewhere in the
middle of Journey and DT; not as heavy as DT but a
progressive rock masterpiece. I'm sure Friga can write
darker songs and get away from sappy love songs for at
least one album.

The fans won't allow it. Hell, they didn't allow it with RED13. I love RED13 and no longer notice the poor production.

I dont think Dead13 was at all an effort to go in a prog rock direction.....but I agree that if Journey did so, they'd have trouble.

strangegrey wrote:

jrnyman28 wrote:

Carlitto H@kk wrote:

StocktontoMalone wrote:DT= poor man's RUSH

You couldn't be further from the truth.
The only similarities is that Portnoy idolizes
Peart and every single member is insane
on his given instrument.

Here's a thought I had...
I listened to some DT and then listened to Revalation...
How cool would it be for Journey to capitalize on Arnel's
energy/voice and take a chance; go back to the early progressive
roots and cut loose. Record a rock album somewhere in the
middle of Journey and DT; not as heavy as DT but a
progressive rock masterpiece. I'm sure Friga can write
darker songs and get away from sappy love songs for at
least one album.

The fans won't allow it. Hell, they didn't allow it with RED13. I love RED13 and no longer notice the poor production.

I dont think Dead13 was at all an effort to go in a prog rock direction.....but I agree that if Journey did so, they'd have trouble.

The songs (except for I Can Breathe) were definately a throwback to the more progressive sound of Journey while maintaining a melodic sense.

Carlitto H@kk wrote:

StocktontoMalone wrote:DT= poor man's RUSH

You couldn't be further from the truth.
The only similarities is that Portnoy idolizes
Peart and every single member is insane
on his given instrument.

Here's a thought I had...
I listened to some DT and then listened to Revalation...
How cool would it be for Journey to capitalize on Arnel's
energy/voice and take a chance; go back to the early progressive
roots and cut loose. Record a rock album somewhere in the
middle of Journey and DT; not as heavy as DT but a
progressive rock masterpiece. I'm sure Friga can write
darker songs and get away from sappy love songs for at
least one album.

I've been saying this since I became a Journey fan. All the members definitely have the chops. Listening to parts of Change for The Better, Wildest Dream, Faith in the Heartland, and The Journey (Revelation) show that they could make more progressive stuff today in a heartbeat.