MR

I was watching Star Wars: A New Hope the other day with my son, and I was shocked I never saw this earlier....but a plot issue exists in the movie, which in my opinion, destroys the entire climactical ending of the movie.....here goes:

The end is near for the rebellion, they've received word that the Millennium Falcon was indeed tracked and the Death Star has plotted a course for the Yavin system.....and here's where the plot (and the logic surrounding it) turns to utter shit.

As the Death Star arrives at the other end of the planet of Yavin, the rebels calculate how much time it will take for the Death Star, a space station with the awesome power of planetary destruction, to orbit Yavin before having a clear shot on the moon with the rebel base.

Think about that for a minute....a space station with the ability to destroy a planet, needs to circumvent around a planet, to get a clear shot on another planet...??!?!?!?


While I've seen SWIV a gazzilion times, I admit, I've only recently come to this conclusion....so Lucas must've done something right to prevent our disbelief from taking hold...but seriously...once you consider this dreaded plot hole, it ruins the movie.




Even if there were a technical reason why the Empire couldn't destroy Yavin, it should have been revealed in some way. A Friend suggests that maybe a Gas Giant cant be destroyed by the death star....even IF that were the case, it's HIGHLY unlikely the rebellion would have known that given it's short time frame....when they realize the death star is on the other side of Yavin, they don't break the fuck out of there, knowing full well the Death Star may or may not be able to blow Yavin into Kingdom Come.....instead....they calculate the time it'll take for the Death Star to orbit the planet....and mount a defense/offensive during that timeframe.



It's logically insane....it ruins the movie for me.



Discuss.....


Also.....any other plot holes within the Star Wars series that chap your ass?

When it comes to SW, you have to throw logic out the window. The movies are glorified yarns, or space operas, and Luca$ said as much "a long, long time ago..."

The last three movies really sucked, with the so-called Episode I being the worst.

While I agree with you, regarding Lucas's musings. You still have to have a logical plot....

Having the 'tormentor' of SW IV, being a planetary destroyer.....and then having said destroyer circumvent a planet to get to another, is idiocy. If the Death Star wasn't the big bad wolf in the first movie, it could be forgivable...

...but since the entire movie centered around the destructive power of this space station, it's a serious plot issue...

Like I said...when it came to making up his stuff, Luca$$$ didn't give a crap about logic.

strangegrey wrote:I was watching Star Wars: A New Hope the other day with my son, and I was shocked I never saw this earlier....but a plot issue exists in the movie, which in my opinion, destroys the entire climactical ending of the movie.....here goes:

The end is near for the rebellion, they've received word that the Millennium Falcon was indeed tracked and the Death Star has plotted a course for the Yavin system.....and here's where the plot (and the logic surrounding it) turns to utter shit.

As the Death Star arrives at the other end of the planet of Yavin, the rebels calculate how much time it will take for the Death Star, a space station with the awesome power of planetary destruction, to orbit Yavin before having a clear shot on the moon with the rebel base.

Think about that for a minute....a space station with the ability to destroy a planet, needs to circumvent around a planet, to get a clear shot on another planet...??!?!?!?


While I've seen SWIV a gazzilion times, I admit, I've only recently come to this conclusion....so Lucas must've done something right to prevent our disbelief from taking hold...but seriously...once you consider this dreaded plot hole, it ruins the movie.




Even if there were a technical reason why the Empire couldn't destroy Yavin, it should have been revealed in some way. A Friend suggests that maybe a Gas Giant cant be destroyed by the death star....even IF that were the case, it's HIGHLY unlikely the rebellion would have known that given it's short time frame....when they realize the death star is on the other side of Yavin, they don't break the fuck out of there, knowing full well the Death Star may or may not be able to blow Yavin into Kingdom Come.....instead....they calculate the time it'll take for the Death Star to orbit the planet....and mount a defense/offensive during that timeframe.



It's logically insane....it ruins the movie for me.



Discuss.....


Also.....any other plot holes within the Star Wars series that chap your ass?

There is NO way to take movies like this and apply logic...just doesn't work!

Think of this...Superman could reverse time, fly through the core of the earth, freeze entire lakes, lift them, then fly off with them. Yet he couldn't save himself from that 4th movie? Come ON Superman!!!

i've got all six of the star wars and i haven't even watched them yet.never before have i saw the three original releases either but i was told when i was young that i was taken to the first one and empire strikes back but i don't remember.anyway my son is about to be four years old and i'm waiting on the right time to sit with him and my daughter and watch them.i think thats going to be a very fun day.

mikemarrs wrote:i've got all six of the star wars and i haven't even watched them yet.never before have i saw the three original releases either but i was told when i was young that i was taken to the first one and empire strikes back but i don't remember.anyway my son is about to be four years old and i'm waiting on the right time to sit with him and my daughter and watch them.i think thats going to be a very fun day.

WHAT??? What are you waiting for? You haven't seen the original 3, or the last three (I'm talking about the year they were released)? DAMN! I never thought I'd hear of anyone who hasn't seen them (other than my parents of course!).

G.I.Jim wrote:

mikemarrs wrote:i've got all six of the star wars and i haven't even watched them yet.never before have i saw the three original releases either but i was told when i was young that i was taken to the first one and empire strikes back but i don't remember.anyway my son is about to be four years old and i'm waiting on the right time to sit with him and my daughter and watch them.i think thats going to be a very fun day.

WHAT??? What are you waiting for? You haven't seen the original 3, or the last three (I'm talking about the year they were released)? DAMN! I never thought I'd hear of anyone who hasn't seen them (other than my parents of course!).

i've got them out now about to play them.the first three came out when i was around the ages of three through eight then of course i was grown when the others came out but i never went to see them but i told myself one day i'd buy them all at once and sit down and watch them.finally last year i got them all and i've been waiting on the right moment.as a matter of fact i'm going to get them out now.

mikemarrs wrote:

G.I.Jim wrote:

mikemarrs wrote:i've got all six of the star wars and i haven't even watched them yet.never before have i saw the three original releases either but i was told when i was young that i was taken to the first one and empire strikes back but i don't remember.anyway my son is about to be four years old and i'm waiting on the right time to sit with him and my daughter and watch them.i think thats going to be a very fun day.

WHAT??? What are you waiting for? You haven't seen the original 3, or the last three (I'm talking about the year they were released)? DAMN! I never thought I'd hear of anyone who hasn't seen them (other than my parents of course!).

i've got them out now about to play them.the first three came out when i was around the ages of three through eight then of course i was grown when the others came out but i never went to see them but i told myself one day i'd buy them all at once and sit down and watch them.finally last year i got them all and i've been waiting on the right moment.as a matter of fact i'm going to get them out now.

I would give anything to go back in time and see them again for the first time. Man, how awesome! You probably won't like the original 3 as much now, because the graphics and special effects just weren't what they are now. The story in the originals is MUCH better though IMHO. Very cool movies, and you should really enjoy them.

strangegrey wrote:I was watching Star Wars: A New Hope the other day with my son, and I was shocked I never saw this earlier....but a plot issue exists in the movie, which in my opinion, destroys the entire climactical ending of the movie.....here goes:

The end is near for the rebellion, they've received word that the Millennium Falcon was indeed tracked and the Death Star has plotted a course for the Yavin system.....and here's where the plot (and the logic surrounding it) turns to utter shit.As the Death Star arrives at the other end of the planet of Yavin, the rebels calculate how much time it will take for the Death Star, a space station with the awesome power of planetary destruction, to orbit Yavin before having a clear shot on the moon with the rebel base.

Think about that for a minute....a space station with the ability to destroy a planet, needs to circumvent around a planet, to get a clear shot on another planet...??!?!?!?


While I've seen SWIV a gazzilion times, I admit, I've only recently come to this conclusion....so Lucas must've done something right to prevent our disbelief from taking hold...but seriously...once you consider this dreaded plot hole, it ruins the movie.




Even if there were a technical reason why the Empire couldn't destroy Yavin, it should have been revealed in some way. A Friend suggests that maybe a Gas Giant cant be destroyed by the death star....even IF that were the case, it's HIGHLY unlikely the rebellion would have known that given it's short time frame....when they realize the death star is on the other side of Yavin, they don't break the fuck out of there, knowing full well the Death Star may or may not be able to blow Yavin into Kingdom Come.....instead....they calculate the time it'll take for the Death Star to orbit the planet....and mount a defense/offensive during that timeframe.



It's logically insane....it ruins the movie for me.



Discuss.....


Also.....any other plot holes within the Star Wars series that chap your ass?

I find your lack of faith...disturbing.

mikemarrs wrote:i've got all six of the star wars and i haven't even watched them yet.never before have i saw the three original releases either but i was told when i was young that i was taken to the first one and empire strikes back but i don't remember.anyway my son is about to be four years old and i'm waiting on the right time to sit with him and my daughter and watch them.i think thats going to be a very fun day.

G.I.Jim wrote:WHAT??? What are you waiting for? You haven't seen the original 3, or the last three (I'm talking about the year they were released)? DAMN! I never thought I'd hear of anyone who hasn't seen them (other than my parents of course!).

mikemarrs wrote:i've got them out now about to play them.the first three came out when i was around the ages of three through eight then of course i was grown when the others came out but i never went to see them but i told myself one day i'd buy them all at once and sit down and watch them.finally last year i got them all and i've been waiting on the right moment.as a matter of fact i'm going to get them out now.

G.I.Jim wrote:I would give anything to go back in time and see them again for the first time. Man, how awesome! You probably won't like the original 3 as much now, because the graphics and special effects just weren't what they are now. The story in the originals is MUCH better though IMHO. Very cool movies, and you should really enjoy them.

That’s easy. All you need is one of those spiffy DeLoreans like the one Marty McFly had in all those Back To The Future movies. At least they were logical.

Was the planet-in-the-way mostly gas? (basing this on what I remember of the image on the
tac display "countdown" at the rebel base). A gas planet might be dense enough to diffuse and
degrade a particle beam, but not quite solid enough to "blow up". Even with a solid planet,
blowing it up would create a potentially dispersive debris field.

As for any premium placed on plot cohesion and rationality...
The statement "It's just a movie" seems to apply to StarWars more than most, lol.


-wech.

Maybe blowing up the gas giant would result in the death star blowing up with it. A mini nova that would destroy half the solar sytem.
Or maybe the gun takes so long to charge between shots, the empire doesn't want to wait that long.

You have to suspend disbelief and just enjoy the movie. Not sure I can anymore now though, thanks SG!

Rick wrote:You have to suspend disbelief and just enjoy the movie. Not sure I can anymore now though, thanks SG!

I agree, Rick. I don't think that's a huge plot hole, though. I always assumed that a) they were going to catch the Rebels by surprise or b) that using the weapon twice in that short span wasn't possible (perhaps a weapon of such magnitude took time to power up after usage?)
Sorry it ruined it for you dude, but to me that's sci fi. You deal with the plot holes and enjoy it anyway. And anyhow, the movie could've had a dozen such holes in the plot and it would STILL be better then those last three turds Lucas unleashed.

strangegrey wrote:As the Death Star arrives at the other end of the planet of Yavin, the rebels calculate how much time it will take for the Death Star, a space station with the awesome power of planetary destruction, to orbit Yavin before having a clear shot on the moon with the rebel base.

Think about that for a minute....a space station with the ability to destroy a planet, needs to circumvent around a planet, to get a clear shot on another planet...??!?!?!?

Frank, consider this. Why would he be in such a hurry to blow up the rebel base? Once they found out the location, it was all going to be inevitable. Tarkin pretty much said as much when his commander notified him that there was a danger and asked if he wanted to board his shuttle. "I think you overestimate their chances!" Tarkin refused, there was no danger, thus no hurry. Tarkin was on an indestructable station as far as he was concerned.

Star Wars... You people have got to be fucking kidding!!! What's next...Captain Kirk and The Star Trek crew probe Uranus?

It is fantasy...........stop micro-analyzing and enjoy........it is for fun. If you could really do those things we would. So a glitch in the ability to zap a planet.........man to think up those things is amazing! To pull it off with the budgets he had in the beginning and the special effects he had back then was close to impossible! He is and was an immaginier of the the highest degree. I would love to make what he has made off of his creations. Just to immagine it in the first place. WoW. Sorry folks, to me he and Jim Henson are my rock stars. Maybe one day to do what they have done. Please, Please, Please let me some day have that kind of luck!

Gunbot wrote:Maybe blowing up the gas giant would result in the death star blowing up with it. A mini nova that would destroy half the solar sytem.
Or maybe the gun takes so long to charge between shots, the empire doesn't want to wait that long.

Yes, these are the theories I've heard.

JasonD wrote:All you need is one of those spiffy DeLoreans like the one Marty McFly had in all those Back To The Future movies. At least they were logical.

Ah but the massive plothole in BTTF2 is that after Old!Biff steals the DeLorean and changes the past, he somehow comes back to the future timeline he left from! Logically he should transport to the new parallel future and the DeLorean should be gone forever for Marty and Doc in 2015.

I've heard the comments regarding Gas Giants, as I started hunting for this on the web but nowhere in the movie does this get explained away. Keep in mind, Lucas seems to be directing his movies towards children or else, no Jar Jar in Movie I. Does anyone expect a child to go "Oh, but it's a Gas Giant, the particle beam wouldn't destroy it." In fact, they make such a deal hanging dialog all throughout the movie about how the Death Star is the most formidable planetary destructive power in the universe that it's pretty hard to swallow that they have to avoid a planet to blow up one of it's moons, irrespective of whatever the makeup of the planet.

Also, the theory of waiting for the Death Star to recharge is a bad one on two levels. In Return of the Jedi, the Death Star sends out shot after shot, blowing up ships....and even if it had to recharge to kill a planet....where's the moon going to go? If the moon didn't get destroyed by the explosion of Yavin, the Death Star could easily recharge and blast it to bits a few minutes later.

It's a bad plot hole...regardless. A plot hole that big needed at least a one sentence dialog somewhere in the movie to eliminate it from scrutiny....and the fact that it's there really killed alot of my enjoyment of this first movie.

Sarah wrote:Ah but the massive plothole in BTTF2 is that after Old!Biff steals the DeLorean and changes the past, he somehow comes back to the future timeline he left from! Logically he should transport to the new parallel future and the DeLorean should be gone forever for Marty and Doc in 2015.

Woah! That's a good one....

strangegrey wrote:Also, the theory of waiting for the Death Star to recharge is a bad one on two levels. In Return of the Jedi, the Death Star sends out shot after shot, blowing up ships....and even if it had to recharge to kill a planet....where's the moon going to go? If the moon didn't get destroyed by the explosion of Yavin, the Death Star could easily recharge and blast it to bits a few minutes later.

You need to read the novelizations of the movies...the second Death Star was A) More advanced and B) using lower powered shots...after all it just need to blow up ships not planets.

As for Yavin Lucas explicity stated that the Death Star didn't have enough power to blow up Yavin because it is so big i.e. Jupiter sized or better.

Star Wars movies aren't supposed to have convoluted plots...they are supposed to be like the original Buck Rogers and Flash Gordons, just a bunch of fun with an easy story.

verslibre wrote:When it comes to SW, you have to throw logic out the window. The movies are glorified yarns, or space operas, and Luca$ said as much "a long, long time ago..."

The last three movies really sucked, with the so-called Episode I being the worst.

Loved them...especially Sith, which is probably the best out of all 6....close with Empire.

RossValoryRocks wrote:As for Yavin Lucas explicity stated that the Death Star didn't have enough power to blow up Yavin because it is so big i.e. Jupiter sized or better.

Stu,
where? Did Lucas explain this within the movies, or in an interview years later?
If it's the later, then it still does not change my opinion on how this plot hole ruins the movie for me...It's a bad one that should have had either dialog or a sequence within the movie to explain it away....


....it's not a case where the plot hole surrounds something insignificant, like whether or not there's water on tatooine.

The Death Star was one of the major tormentors of the movie....and it was a tormentor, because of it's ability to "Destroy Planets." If there was a limitation on such an ability, it was necessary to reveal this......especially considering the plot line of the movie ending...

Eric wrote:

verslibre wrote:When it comes to SW, you have to throw logic out the window. The movies are glorified yarns, or space operas, and Luca$ said as much "a long, long time ago..."

The last three movies really sucked, with the so-called Episode I being the worst.

Loved them...especially Sith, which is probably the best out of all 6....close with Empire.

Revenge of the Sith was great. That red dude was an evil sonofabitch.

strangegrey wrote:

RossValoryRocks wrote:As for Yavin Lucas explicity stated that the Death Star didn't have enough power to blow up Yavin because it is so big i.e. Jupiter sized or better.

Stu,
where? Did Lucas explain this within the movies, or in an interview years later?
If it's the later, then it still does not change my opinion on how this plot hole ruins the movie for me...It's a bad one that should have had either dialog or a sequence within the movie to explain it away....


....it's not a case where the plot hole surrounds something insignificant, like whether or not there's water on tatooine.

The Death Star was one of the major tormentors of the movie....and it was a tormentor, because of it's ability to "Destroy Planets." If there was a limitation on such an ability, it was necessary to reveal this......especially considering the plot line of the movie ending...

I am pretty sure the explanation was in the novelization for the movie (Written by Alan Dean Foster).

RossValoryRocks wrote:I am pretty sure the explanation was in the novelization for the movie (Written by Alan Dean Foster).

Thanks for the clarification there....it still makes me question the movie, however. It's a fact that should have been hung somewhere in the movie itself, as it's a HUGE plot hole...

But I'm glad Lucas saw fit to explain it somewhere.

G.I.Jim wrote: I never thought I'd hear of anyone who hasn't seen them (other than my parents of course!).

I've never seen Star Wars and I don't intend to either-no interest whatsoever.

strangegrey wrote:

RossValoryRocks wrote:I am pretty sure the explanation was in the novelization for the movie (Written by Alan Dean Foster).

Thanks for the clarification there....it still makes me question the movie, however. It's a fact that should have been hung somewhere in the movie itself, as it's a HUGE plot hole...

But I'm glad Lucas saw fit to explain it somewhere.

Thank the good lord that was explained.

strangegrey wrote:Even if there were a technical reason why the Empire couldn't destroy Yavin, it should have been revealed in some way. A Friend suggests that maybe a Gas Giant cant be destroyed by the death star....even IF that were the case, it's HIGHLY unlikely the rebellion would have known that given it's short time frame....when they realize the death star is on the other side of Yavin, they don't break the fuck out of there, knowing full well the Death Star may or may not be able to blow Yavin into Kingdom Come.....instead....they calculate the time it'll take for the Death Star to orbit the planet....and mount a defense/offensive during that timeframe.

Well, there are benefits to not destroying every planet in your path. It's kinda fun to take them over every once in a while to rule over their people and leech all their natural resources.



Actually, the incredibly convoluted plot of "Attack of the Clones" was one I never completely untangled and understood after seeing it 3-4 times. Luca$ totally destroyed the magic of Star Wars with over-commercialization that never stops. "Phantom Menace" was actually my favorite of the second trilogy. At least it was fun.

It's the size of a small moon, can travel inter-stellar distances presumably at hyperspeed, but comes out the other end on the wrong side of a planet and has to wait a couple of hours... damnit! Stop trying to inject logic into movies!!!


Although I did always wonder why everyone in the known universe seemed to understand Wookie and R2 beeps.