MR

Posted: **Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:08 am**

Posted: **Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:17 am**

Great, great album! I'm a HUGE Bad English fan. Too bad the music changed back then, because I would love to have another album from them. Their unreleased album was complete SHIT, and I think it's because they were trying too hard to fit in with the current trend. Well, that and the fact that Neal was barely involved in the writing process.

Honestly...I think I'd rather see the original Bad English in concert, than the current Journey line-up. THAT would be cool. :wink:

Posted: **Sun Jul 05, 2009 10:31 am**

FANTASTIC ALBUM!!!! i like all the songs
Thanks Stonycito! =PP

Posted: **Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:14 am**

G.I.Jim wrote:Great, great album! I'm a HUGE Bad English fan. Too bad the music changed back then, because I would love to have another album from them. Their unreleased album was complete SHIT, and I think it's because they were trying too hard to fit in with the current trend. Well, that and the fact that Neal was barely involved in the writing process.

Honestly...I think I'd rather see the original Bad English in concert, than the current Journey line-up. THAT would be cool.

People always bring up this unreleased album. What is it? They did not even get done recording Backlash when they fell apart. Neal was not involved in most of that record after recording.

Posted: **Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:24 am**

I love Don't Walk Away and I love most of this album. But DWA is my favorite for some reason... Neal's little staccato stabs all over and his trademark clean soloing are some of my favorite parts of his playing... there's some solo licks on the fade out of the song that I wish weren't faded out, because they sound great. I can really only catch them with headphones.

Posted: **Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:30 am**

Carla777 wrote:FANTASTIC ALBUM!!!! i like all the songs
Thanks Stonycito! =PP

You're welcome, agreed. Lot of great songs here.

Ehwmatt wrote:I love Don't Walk Away and I love most of this album. But DWA is my favorite for some reason... Neal's little staccato stabs all over and his trademark clean soloing are some of my favorite parts of his playing... there's some solo licks on the fade out of the song that I wish weren't faded out, because they sound great. I can really only catch them with headphones.

I'd say 80% of the album is stellar. DWA also a favorite, perfect song to end with.

Hollywood wrote:
G.I.Jim wrote:Great, great album! I'm a HUGE Bad English fan. Too bad the music changed back then, because I would love to have another album from them. Their unreleased album was complete SHIT, and I think it's because they were trying too hard to fit in with the current trend. Well, that and the fact that Neal was barely involved in the writing process.

Honestly...I think I'd rather see the original Bad English in concert, than the current Journey line-up. THAT would be cool.

People always bring up this unreleased album. What is it? They did not even get done recording Backlash when they fell apart. Neal was not involved in most of that record after recording.

So there's an "unreleased" Bad English album? I thought this and Backlash was all they did.

Posted: **Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:34 am**

I remember when I went back and found all the interviews and remarks by the members on why it fell apart and why the second album wasn't good. Very interesting. Men and their egos. :wink:

Thanks for the links. Fun to listen to. I love Waite's voice.

Posted: **Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:35 am**

Jana wrote:I remember when I went back and found all the interviews and remarks by the members on why it fell apart and why the second album wasn't good. Very interesting. Men and their egos.

Thanks for the links. Fun to listen to. I love Waite's voice.

You're welcome. Reminded of it 'cause of remembering 1989's July 4th today and this disc had just been released.

This, HSAS and Hardline's first are my favorite Schon side projects.

G.I.Jim wrote:Great, great album! I'm a HUGE Bad English fan. Too bad the music changed back then, because I would love to have another album from them.

Their unreleased album was complete SHIT, and I think it's because they were trying too hard to fit in with the current trend. Well, that and the fact that Neal was barely involved in the writing process.

Are you talking about Backlash?

Posted: **Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:47 am**

Hollywood wrote:
G.I.Jim wrote:Great, great album! I'm a HUGE Bad English fan. Too bad the music changed back then, because I would love to have another album from them. Their unreleased album was complete SHIT, and I think it's because they were trying too hard to fit in with the current trend. Well, that and the fact that Neal was barely involved in the writing process.

Honestly...I think I'd rather see the original Bad English in concert, than the current Journey line-up. THAT would be cool.

People always bring up this unreleased album. What is it? They did not even get done recording Backlash when they fell apart. Neal was not involved in most of that record after recording.

I have the entire album. It's called "The Lost Tapes". It's a bunch of demos, and they basically sound like they were just Cain/Waite demos. I really don't hear Neal in them at all. I hadn't listened to them in a long time until I saw this thread!

I thought (memories fading...), that they sucked because they were trying to sound modern. I was wrong...they just sucked because...they suck! :shock:

To me there are only a couple of songs worth even listening to.

Here's one called "Hard Rain". It's the 1st song off of the "album". :wink:

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?a ... 9188182a78

Posted: **Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:49 am**

G.I.Jim wrote:
Hollywood wrote:
G.I.Jim wrote:Great, great album! I'm a HUGE Bad English fan. Too bad the music changed back then, because I would love to have another album from them. Their unreleased album was complete SHIT, and I think it's because they were trying too hard to fit in with the current trend. Well, that and the fact that Neal was barely involved in the writing process.

Honestly...I think I'd rather see the original Bad English in concert, than the current Journey line-up. THAT would be cool.

People always bring up this unreleased album. What is it? They did not even get done recording Backlash when they fell apart. Neal was not involved in most of that record after recording.

I have the entire album. It's called "The Lost Tapes". It's a bunch of demos, and they basically sound like they were just Cain/Waite demos. I really don't hear Neal in them at all. I hadn't listened to them in a long time until I saw this thread!

I thought (memories fading...), that they sucked because they were trying to sound modern. I was wrong...they just sucked because...they suck! To me there are only a couple of songs worth even listening to.

Here's one called "Hard Rain". It's the 1st song off of the "album".

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?a ... 9188182a78

Jim the album cover is nice!

Posted: **Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:53 am**

artist4perry wrote:
G.I.Jim wrote:
Hollywood wrote:
G.I.Jim wrote:Great, great album! I'm a HUGE Bad English fan. Too bad the music changed back then, because I would love to have another album from them. Their unreleased album was complete SHIT, and I think it's because they were trying too hard to fit in with the current trend. Well, that and the fact that Neal was barely involved in the writing process.

Honestly...I think I'd rather see the original Bad English in concert, than the current Journey line-up. THAT would be cool.

People always bring up this unreleased album. What is it? They did not even get done recording Backlash when they fell apart. Neal was not involved in most of that record after recording.

I have the entire album. It's called "The Lost Tapes". It's a bunch of demos, and they basically sound like they were just Cain/Waite demos. I really don't hear Neal in them at all. I hadn't listened to them in a long time until I saw this thread!

I thought (memories fading...), that they sucked because they were trying to sound modern. I was wrong...they just sucked because...they suck! To me there are only a couple of songs worth even listening to.

Here's one called "Hard Rain". It's the 1st song off of the "album".

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?a ... 9188182a78

Jim the album cover is nice!

Thanks Ginger! Haven't you posted on my thread about the album cover though? It looks like we're definitely going to use a different cover. I seem to be the only one (except maybe you!) who likes it! :lol:

Posted: **Sun Jul 05, 2009 12:24 pm**

G.I.Jim wrote: I have the entire album. It's called "The Lost Tapes". It's a bunch of demos, and they basically sound like they were just Cain/Waite demos. I really don't hear Neal in them at all. I hadn't listened to them in a long time until I saw this thread!

I thought (memories fading...), that they sucked because they were trying to sound modern. I was wrong...they just sucked because...they suck! To me there are only a couple of songs worth even listening to.

Hey Jim, thanks for the track. I'm gonna check that out. If Neal wasn't around for the creation of the music, no surprise it wasn't as good. Sounds like it'd be a latter day Babys record.

And as Herbie Herbert famously said ...

Babys suck! :lol:

Posted: **Sun Jul 05, 2009 12:56 pm**

Q. Why did Bad English break up?

A. This explanation was given by bass player Ricky Phillips in an interview with Andrew McNeice:

"Too many cooks. Nobody was willing to bend anymore. Everyone forget what the beauty of being in a band was all about, and at some point there has to be some degree of a democracy, or all the parties have to agree that one person is the dictator. It can't be both, and er, when you've got four great writers in one band, somebody's got to give. The first record we all kind of pitched in and did our job. First off I was really involved in the songwriting, then Neal came into the situation, and I pushed him forward. He would come over to my house and I would record his ideas one after another, cause they were so brilliant. But after awhile everyone forgot what the chemistry was, everyone was fighting for their ideas, instead of finding where the most natural flow was.

"And people started keeping score, and that's where the dissatisfaction started cropping up. Quite frankly Jonathan Cain and John Waite tried to take over during the second record, and run it, and that's when Neal Schon and I basically said at one point - Let's finish this record, but this is not really what I'm here for. And slowly but surely I didn't change, it got worse and we really fell apart and split up during the making of that second record. It was at that point he record company kinda lost interest in putting anything behind it. Which is a shame, because there are some really classy pieces of music on that record. You could feel that tension, which in a way is kinda cool, I mean I can really feel the tension in the recording of those songs, and I like that."

Posted: **Sun Jul 05, 2009 5:24 pm**

There is a Force interview with Jonathan where he basicaly says the band basicaly became a 'kiss-ass corporate rock band' because of the label pushing 'Diane Warren' songs. He said they were already alll successful and didn't need to do that. He wanted to have a 'black crowes' mentatlity for the band. He kinda agreed with what Ricky said below about the 'keeping score'....He had to agree to allowing "When I See You Smile" on the first album in order to get "Ghost In Your Heart" on it. He also seemed to blame John Waite a lot...saying he wanted to be a rock star at any cost...and the label propped him up as the spokesman for the band.

So, when it came time to do Backlash, I think the label wanted "When I See You Smile" pt2, John Waite wanted to do this 'darker sound', and Neal, Jonathan and Ricky wanted their own things...fighting both the label and John Waite...So, I think the 'spirit' of the 'band' mentality died. When that happened, Neal went to Hardline...and the band was broke up well before Backlash was even finished.

There are also 'BE' songs on both Hardline's first album and think both Waite and Cain had one on their solo albums that followed BE's breakup.

Hard to believe that's 20yrs ago - wow.

Jana wrote:Q. Why did Bad English break up?

A. This explanation was given by bass player Ricky Phillips in an interview with Andrew McNeice:

"Too many cooks. Nobody was willing to bend anymore. Everyone forget what the beauty of being in a band was all about, and at some point there has to be some degree of a democracy, or all the parties have to agree that one person is the dictator. It can't be both, and er, when you've got four great writers in one band, somebody's got to give. The first record we all kind of pitched in and did our job. First off I was really involved in the songwriting, then Neal came into the situation, and I pushed him forward. He would come over to my house and I would record his ideas one after another, cause they were so brilliant. But after awhile everyone forgot what the chemistry was, everyone was fighting for their ideas, instead of finding where the most natural flow was.

"And people started keeping score, and that's where the dissatisfaction started cropping up. Quite frankly Jonathan Cain and John Waite tried to take over during the second record, and run it, and that's when Neal Schon and I basically said at one point - Let's finish this record, but this is not really what I'm here for. And slowly but surely I didn't change, it got worse and we really fell apart and split up during the making of that second record. It was at that point he record company kinda lost interest in putting anything behind it. Which is a shame, because there are some really classy pieces of music on that record. You could feel that tension, which in a way is kinda cool, I mean I can really feel the tension in the recording of those songs, and I like that."

Posted: **Mon Jul 06, 2009 3:20 am**

Thanks for the background info GI, Jana and Monker.

This is what's great about MR. Not just a bunch of fanboys(girls) fawning over random band members. We get some real behind the scenes which makes for interesting reading.

This cd had a fresh sound to it. Similar to when Gramm branched out on his own.

Considering the direction Perry was headed during and post ROR, imo its safe to say this disc is probably better than what we might've gotten from Journey in this time period.

Oh and ditto what Monker said about 20 years! Where'd that time go?

Posted: **Mon Jul 06, 2009 5:21 am**

StoneCold wrote:Thanks for the background info GI, Jana and Monker.

This is what's great about MR. Not just a bunch of fanboys(girls) fawning over random band members. We get some real behind the scenes which makes for interesting reading.

This cd had a fresh sound to it. Similar to when Gramm branched out on his own.

Considering the direction Perry was headed during and post ROR, imo its safe to say this disc is probably better than what we might've gotten from Journey in this time period.

Oh and ditto what Monker said about 20 years! Where'd that time go?

What did you think about the song "Hard Rain" I posted? Do you think it's up to par with their other songs?

Posted: **Mon Jul 06, 2009 5:30 am**

While I enjoy both BE CDs, I always preferred Backlash to the first release. I guess it may be that tension thing that Ricky Phillips was mentioning.

Posted: **Mon Jul 06, 2009 5:46 am**

Best of What I Got was just on the radio!

BE is a little too poppy/ballady for me. I was excited about Hardline after that cuz I know that Deen and Neal can hit it a lot harder than they did in BE.

imho

Posted: **Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:18 am**

Hollywood wrote:
G.I.Jim wrote:Great, great album! I'm a HUGE Bad English fan. Too bad the music changed back then, because I would love to have another album from them. Their unreleased album was complete SHIT, and I think it's because they were trying too hard to fit in with the current trend. Well, that and the fact that Neal was barely involved in the writing process.

Honestly...I think I'd rather see the original Bad English in concert, than the current Journey line-up. THAT would be cool.

People always bring up this unreleased album. What is it? They did not even get done recording Backlash when they fell apart. Neal was not involved in most of that record after recording.

The lost tapes have nothing to do with Bad English, NOTHING!!! It is songs before Bad English with Waite doing songs on his own, for the most part.

Posted: **Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:57 am**

The BE song Straight To Your Heart has the heaviest Neal chord ever... that opening Csus2 chord he hits followed by that nice riff is a great moment...

Posted: **Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:32 am**

I know it's off topic, but this is my fav JW track.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpNBFpR3 ... re=related

----------------
Now playing: John Waite - I'm Still In Love

Posted: **Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:53 am**

Duncan wrote:I know it's off topic, but this is my fav JW track.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpNBFpR3 ... re=related

----------------
Now playing: John Waite - I'm Still In Love

That group helped Hairspray company CEO's retire REALLY early! :shock:

Posted: **Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:02 am**

G.I.Jim wrote:
Duncan wrote:I know it's off topic, but this is my fav JW track.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpNBFpR3 ... re=related

----------------
Now playing: John Waite - I'm Still In Love

That group helped Hairspray company CEO's retire REALLY early!

Careful Jim, you've still got to do the band photos for the back of the CD cover. :lol:

Posted: **Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:29 am**

Duncan wrote:
G.I.Jim wrote:
Duncan wrote:I know it's off topic, but this is my fav JW track.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpNBFpR3 ... re=related

----------------
Now playing: John Waite - I'm Still In Love

That group helped Hairspray company CEO's retire REALLY early!

Careful Jim, you've still got to do the band photos for the back of the CD cover.

Hey, I'm in the military...I HAVE no hair! :lol:

Posted: **Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:56 pm**

G.I.Jim wrote:
StoneCold wrote:Thanks for the background info GI, Jana and Monker.

This is what's great about MR. Not just a bunch of fanboys(girls) fawning over random band members. We get some real behind the scenes which makes for interesting reading.

This cd had a fresh sound to it. Similar to when Gramm branched out on his own.

Considering the direction Perry was headed during and post ROR, imo its safe to say this disc is probably better than what we might've gotten from Journey in this time period.

Oh and ditto what Monker said about 20 years! Where'd that time go?

What did you think about the song "Hard Rain" I posted? Do you think it's up to par with their other songs?

It starts off kinda weak with the click track and repeating key sound but around 1:45 kicks into gear in Waite fashion which saves it. No standout guitar to speak of. The piano solo shows that Neal was awol that day. :lol:

I'm glad to have it though. If you're so inclined put the others up so we can check'em out.

Posted: **Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:08 pm**

Ehwmatt wrote:The BE song Straight To Your Heart has the heaviest Neal chord ever... that opening Csus2 chord he hits followed by that nice riff is a great moment...

Not sure its his heaviest chord but Neal really owns this tune. The opening riff, his lead (2:11) and outro 3:33 are all killer.

Oh and you can barely hear Friga on it. LOL

Straight To Your Heart
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1O4xZKgFDY

Posted: **Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:57 pm**

Hollywood wrote:
G.I.Jim wrote:Great, great album! I'm a HUGE Bad English fan. Too bad the music changed back then, because I would love to have another album from them. Their unreleased album was complete SHIT, and I think it's because they were trying too hard to fit in with the current trend. Well, that and the fact that Neal was barely involved in the writing process.

Honestly...I think I'd rather see the original Bad English in concert, than the current Journey line-up. THAT would be cool.

People always bring up this unreleased album. What is it? They did not even get done recording Backlash when they fell apart. Neal was not involved in most of that record after recording.

There is no unreleased third album. There are a few JW/NS/JC demos around and a few more that JC told me he had at home that no one has ever heard, but certainly no unreleased album.

Most of the tracks attributed to a third BE album are in fact, JW solo demos. And they are outstanding songs

Posted: **Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:58 pm**

G.I.Jim wrote:
I have the entire album. It's called "The Lost Tapes". It's a bunch of demos, and they basically sound like they were just Cain/Waite demos. I really don't hear Neal in them at all. I hadn't listened to them in a long time until I saw this thread!

I thought (memories fading...), that they sucked because they were trying to sound modern.

The band fell apart as Backlash was released, so there is certainly no work-in-progress third album. Just unreleased tunes the band diodn't use for album 1 and 2.

And 90% of the "BE demos" are just JW solo tracks.

Posted: **Mon Jul 06, 2009 3:01 pm**

StoneCold wrote:
G.I.Jim wrote:
StoneCold wrote:Thanks for the background info GI, Jana and Monker.

This is what's great about MR. Not just a bunch of fanboys(girls) fawning over random band members. We get some real behind the scenes which makes for interesting reading.

This cd had a fresh sound to it. Similar to when Gramm branched out on his own.

Considering the direction Perry was headed during and post ROR, imo its safe to say this disc is probably better than what we might've gotten from Journey in this time period.

Oh and ditto what Monker said about 20 years! Where'd that time go?

What did you think about the song "Hard Rain" I posted? Do you think it's up to par with their other songs?

It starts off kinda weak with the click track and repeating key sound but around 1:45 kicks into gear in Waite fashion which saves it. No standout guitar to speak of. The piano solo shows that Neal was awol that day.

That's because it's a John Waite solo demo

Posted: **Mon Jul 06, 2009 3:35 pm**

Andrew wrote:That's because it's a John Waite solo demo

What about the Hardline song that had about 20 people listed as cowriter? Did that not start out as a BE song? I thought Neal brought that to the band as an unfinished BE song.

I also thought Jonathan had a song on one of the versions of "Back to the Innocence" that had a BE song on it.

MR

Bad English - 20 Years ago

Bad English - 20 Years ago