Did this really go down this way? (Fleischman dismissal)

[steveo777]

I was reading wiki today. (don't know how I missed this before)

Apparently when Steve Perry was brought on board, he was introduced as one of the roadies' portuguese cousins. When Robert Fleischman was off stage SP came out and sang, then it was anounced that Sp was the replacement. If this shit is true, the band has a history of really brutal replacing.

Perry was brought on tour and to avoid alarming Fleischman was introduced clandestinely as roadie John Villanueva's Portuguese cousin and surreptitiously performed a song with Journey during a sound check in Long Beach while Fleischman was away from the stage and Herbert informed the band of the line-up change.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Perry_(musician)

That's some kinda fucked up shit right there.

I know...I know...some will say welcome to Journey 101, but I swear I'd missed that.

[mdaemon]

If Tito is not on vacation he would say that that shit didn't happen. Because "they are good people".

[Don]

When they tried that shit with JSS, it didn't go quite as smoothly.
Memo to Journey: Letting Kevin Cronin conduct your exit interviews is not a good idea from a financial standpoint.

[Sarah]

I was reading wiki today. (don't know how I missed this before)

Apparently when Steve Perry was brought on board, he was introduced as one of the roadies' portuguese cousins. When Robert Fleischman was off stage SP came out and sang, then it was anounced that Sp was the replacement. If this shit is true, the band has a history of really brutal replacing.

Perry was brought on tour and to avoid alarming Fleischman was introduced clandestinely as roadie John Villanueva's Portuguese cousin and surreptitiously performed a song with Journey during a sound check in Long Beach while Fleischman was away from the stage and Herbert informed the band of the line-up change.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Perry_(musician)

That's some kinda fucked up shit right there.

I know...I know...some will say welcome to Journey 101, but I swear I'd missed that.

Yeah I'm surprised the Wiki nazis haven't flagged that for citation but I think it was either in the Time3 liner notes or that Robyn Flans book.

[Babyblue]

I was reading wiki today. (don't know how I missed this before)

Apparently when Steve Perry was brought on board, he was introduced as one of the roadies' portuguese cousins. When Robert Fleischman was off stage SP came out and sang, then it was anounced that Sp was the replacement. If this shit is true, the band has a history of really brutal replacing.

Perry was brought on tour and to avoid alarming Fleischman was introduced clandestinely as roadie John Villanueva's Portuguese cousin and surreptitiously performed a song with Journey during a sound check in Long Beach while Fleischman was away from the stage and Herbert informed the band of the line-up change.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Perry_(musician)

That's some kinda fucked up shit right there.

I know...I know...some will say welcome to Journey 101, but I swear I'd missed that.

Yep it happened.

[Monker]

I was reading wiki today. (don't know how I missed this before)

Apparently when Steve Perry was brought on board, he was introduced as one of the roadies' portuguese cousins. When Robert Fleischman was off stage SP came out and sang, then it was anounced that Sp was the replacement. If this shit is true, the band has a history of really brutal replacing.

Perry was brought on tour and to avoid alarming Fleischman was introduced clandestinely as roadie John Villanueva's Portuguese cousin and surreptitiously performed a song with Journey during a sound check in Long Beach while Fleischman was away from the stage and Herbert informed the band of the line-up change.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Perry_(musician)

That's some kinda fucked up shit right there.

I know...I know...some will say welcome to Journey 101, but I swear I'd missed that.

Yes, that is what happen. But, Fleischman was on his way out anyway. He wasn't getting along well with Herbie....and that was a huge problem at that time.

[Red13JoePa]

the band has a history of really brutal replacing.

Nah, just picked SOME prickish singers who had to be deep-sixed.

[Jana]

the band has a history of really brutal replacing.

Nah, just picked SOME prickish singers who had to be deep-sixed.

[stevew2]

If Tito is not on vacation he would say that that shit didn't happen. Because "they are good people".

No shit,They are some back stabing hocksters

[strangegrey]

the band has a history of really brutal replacing.

Nah, just picked SOME prickish singers who had to be deep-sixed.

Oh come on, it takes two to tango....

[bluejeangirl76]

I was reading wiki today. (don't know how I missed this before)

Apparently when Steve Perry was brought on board, he was introduced as one of the roadies' portuguese cousins. When Robert Fleischman was off stage SP came out and sang, then it was anounced that Sp was the replacement. If this shit is true, the band has a history of really brutal replacing.

Perry was brought on tour and to avoid alarming Fleischman was introduced clandestinely as roadie John Villanueva's Portuguese cousin and surreptitiously performed a song with Journey during a sound check in Long Beach while Fleischman was away from the stage and Herbert informed the band of the line-up change.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Perry_(musician)

That's some kinda fucked up shit right there.

I know...I know...some will say welcome to Journey 101, but I swear I'd missed that.

Yeah I'm surprised the Wiki nazis haven't flagged that for citation but I think it was either in the Time3 liner notes or that Robyn Flans book.

Well, that story has been told in interviews also - once by Perry if I remember right... and didn't HH also tell it at one point? I mean, from all accounts as far I can tell it's a true story so, what's wiki gonna bother doing about it?

[Red13JoePa]

the band has a history of really brutal replacing.

Nah, just picked SOME prickish singers who had to be deep-sixed.

Oh come on, it takes two to tango....

You come on.
Carcinogens must be 86'd lest they mestasticize. Not talking about all of the ex singers but in the case of Flieschman it's been implied he was a little difficult too.

[Deb]

the band has a history of really brutal replacing.

Nah, just picked SOME prickish singers who had to be deep-sixed.

Oh come on, it takes two to tango....

You come on.
Carcinogens must be 86'd lest they mestasticize. Not talking about all of the ex singers but in the case of Flieschman it's been implied he was a little difficult too.

Just love how it's always the "lead singer's" fault when anything goes wrong in any band.

[portland]

the band has a history of really brutal replacing.

Nah, just picked SOME prickish singers who had to be deep-sixed.

Oh come on, it takes two to tango....

You come on.
Carcinogens must be 86'd lest they mestasticize. Not talking about all of the ex singers but in the case of Flieschman it's been implied he was a little difficult too.

Just love how it's always the "lead singers" fault when anything goes wrong in any band.

Yes....it's okay for the others to be assholes.....they can always blame it on the lead singer....but when said singer makes said band more successful than they ever where....it was everyone in the band who made that happen

[Sarah]

Well, that story has been told in interviews also - once by Perry if I remember right... and didn't HH also tell it at one point? I mean, from all accounts as far I can tell it's a true story so, what's wiki gonna bother doing about it?

Wiki admins aren't aware of such interviews unless they're cited. Haven't you seen tons of articles peppered with "citation needed" for nearly everything? I'm just surprised they missed this one.

[strangegrey]

the band has a history of really brutal replacing.

Nah, just picked SOME prickish singers who had to be deep-sixed.

Oh come on, it takes two to tango....

You come on.
Carcinogens must be 86'd lest they mestasticize. Not talking about all of the ex singers but in the case of Flieschman it's been implied he was a little difficult too.

Not arguing that. But you did respond to someone saying "there's a history of really brutal replacing"....which there IS! You can't deny it. The history is right there for anyone to see.

Now maybe some of these singers got what was coming...but think about it. You lose one bad singer, two maybe. When you've sacked several, you start thinking that maybe the problem isn't just the singer!!


This sorta thing happened with Van Halen. They split with Roth, everyone assumed the flamboyant, always smart-ass Roth was the reason behind the split. Then the split with Sammy happens...people start musing (rightfully) that maybe Ed's part of the problem. Then Cherone gets sacked. Hagar lasts one reunion tour. Mikey was sacked years ago, but stayed on as a salaried employee.....then finally back with Roth and donut boy on bass.

Once you start seeing the pattern, you realize that maybe it wasn't the singer's fault all along. No amount of claiming "lead singers disease" can change public opinion that Eddie is the virus, NOT Sammy, Roth, Cherone, Mikey, etc...


Same goes for Journey. When Perry splits the first time, you assume that maybe Perry was the fuckwad. You can dismiss the Flieshman thing as just an experiment gone bad. But when you look at the band's history with lead singers IN THE AGGREGATE, it is VERY clear that the problem IS NOT ENTIRELY THE FAULT OF THE SINGER. Flieshman, Perry, Perry (again), Augeri, JSS, (soon to be) Pineda.

There might be some carcinogenic singers in lists for both bands...but dude, there is an UGLY history there....Neal's a douchebucket. Cain will fire his mother if it meant a greater profit margin.....those kinda mindsets don't equate to long-term employee satisfaction....

[Onestepper]

the band has a history of really brutal replacing.

Nah, just picked SOME prickish singers who had to be deep-sixed.

Oh come on, it takes two to tango....

You come on.
Carcinogens must be 86'd lest they mestasticize. Not talking about all of the ex singers but in the case of Flieschman it's been implied he was a little difficult too.

Not arguing that. But you did respond to someone saying "there's a history of really brutal replacing"....which there IS! You can't deny it. The history is right there for anyone to see.

Now maybe some of these singers got what was coming...but think about it. You lose one bad singer, two maybe. When you've sacked several, you start thinking that maybe the problem isn't just the singer!!


This sorta thing happened with Van Halen. They split with Roth, everyone assumed the flamboyant, always smart-ass Roth was the reason behind the split. Then the split with Sammy happens...people start musing (rightfully) that maybe Ed's part of the problem. Then Cherone gets sacked. Hagar lasts one reunion tour. Mikey was sacked years ago, but stayed on as a salaried employee.....then finally back with Roth and donut boy on bass.

Once you start seeing the pattern, you realize that maybe it wasn't the singer's fault all along. No amount of claiming "lead singers disease" can change public opinion that Eddie is the virus, NOT Sammy, Roth, Cherone, Mikey, etc...


Same goes for Journey. When Perry splits the first time, you assume that maybe Perry was the fuckwad. You can dismiss the Flieshman thing as just an experiment gone bad. But when you look at the band's history with lead singers IN THE AGGREGATE, it is VERY clear that the problem IS NOT ENTIRELY THE FAULT OF THE SINGER. Flieshman, Perry, Perry (again), Augeri, JSS, (soon to be) Pineda.

There might be some carcinogenic singers in lists for both bands...but dude, there is an UGLY history there....Neal's a douchebucket. Cain will fire his mother if it meant a greater profit margin.....those kinda mindsets don't equate to long-term employee satisfaction....

Uhh..Schon had nothing to do with Fleischman getting axed. That was 100% HH via pressure from the label. He didn't give them a choice. Augeri's voice gave out, they didn't have a choice. And Perry left on his own, twice. So other than the debacle that was JSS, I don't really see your point have much validity to it. Has it been a circus of singers? Yes. But I think to blame that all on two people is short sided, and not taking all of the factors into account.

[Since 78]

the band has a history of really brutal replacing.

Nah, just picked SOME prickish singers who had to be deep-sixed.

Oh come on, it takes two to tango....

You come on.
Carcinogens must be 86'd lest they mestasticize. Not talking about all of the ex singers but in the case of Flieschman it's been implied he was a little difficult too.

Not arguing that. But you did respond to someone saying "there's a history of really brutal replacing"....which there IS! You can't deny it. The history is right there for anyone to see.

Now maybe some of these singers got what was coming...but think about it. You lose one bad singer, two maybe. When you've sacked several, you start thinking that maybe the problem isn't just the singer!!


This sorta thing happened with Van Halen. They split with Roth, everyone assumed the flamboyant, always smart-ass Roth was the reason behind the split. Then the split with Sammy happens...people start musing (rightfully) that maybe Ed's part of the problem. Then Cherone gets sacked. Hagar lasts one reunion tour. Mikey was sacked years ago, but stayed on as a salaried employee.....then finally back with Roth and donut boy on bass.

Once you start seeing the pattern, you realize that maybe it wasn't the singer's fault all along. No amount of claiming "lead singers disease" can change public opinion that Eddie is the virus, NOT Sammy, Roth, Cherone, Mikey, etc...


Same goes for Journey. When Perry splits the first time, you assume that maybe Perry was the fuckwad. You can dismiss the Flieshman thing as just an experiment gone bad. But when you look at the band's history with lead singers IN THE AGGREGATE, it is VERY clear that the problem IS NOT ENTIRELY THE FAULT OF THE SINGER. Flieshman, Perry, Perry (again), Augeri, JSS, (soon to be) Pineda.

There might be some carcinogenic singers in lists for both bands...but dude, there is an UGLY history there....Neal's a douchebucket. Cain will fire his mother if it meant a greater profit margin.....those kinda mindsets don't equate to long-term employee satisfaction....

Uhh..Schon had nothing to do with Fleischman getting axed. That was 100% HH via pressure from the label. He didn't give them a choice. Augeri's voice gave out, they didn't have a choice. And Perry left on his own, twice. So other than the debacle that was JSS, I don't really see your point have much validity to it. Has it been a circus of singers? Yes. But I think to blame that all on two people is short sided, and not taking all of the factors into account.

Nicely stated!

[Red13JoePa]

the band has a history of really brutal replacing.

Nah, just picked SOME prickish singers who had to be deep-sixed.

Oh come on, it takes two to tango....

You come on.
Carcinogens must be 86'd lest they mestasticize. Not talking about all of the ex singers but in the case of Flieschman it's been implied he was a little difficult too.

Not arguing that. But you did respond to someone saying "there's a history of really brutal replacing"....which there IS! You can't deny it. The history is right there for anyone to see.

Now maybe some of these singers got what was coming...but think about it. You lose one bad singer, two maybe. When you've sacked several, you start thinking that maybe the problem isn't just the singer!!


This sorta thing happened with Van Halen. They split with Roth, everyone assumed the flamboyant, always smart-ass Roth was the reason behind the split. Then the split with Sammy happens...people start musing (rightfully) that maybe Ed's part of the problem. Then Cherone gets sacked. Hagar lasts one reunion tour. Mikey was sacked years ago, but stayed on as a salaried employee.....then finally back with Roth and donut boy on bass.

Once you start seeing the pattern, you realize that maybe it wasn't the singer's fault all along. No amount of claiming "lead singers disease" can change public opinion that Eddie is the virus, NOT Sammy, Roth, Cherone, Mikey, etc...


Same goes for Journey. When Perry splits the first time, you assume that maybe Perry was the fuckwad. You can dismiss the Flieshman thing as just an experiment gone bad. But when you look at the band's history with lead singers IN THE AGGREGATE, it is VERY clear that the problem IS NOT ENTIRELY THE FAULT OF THE SINGER. Flieshman, Perry, Perry (again), Augeri, JSS, (soon to be) Pineda.

There might be some carcinogenic singers in lists for both bands...but dude, there is an UGLY history there....Neal's a douchebucket. Cain will fire his mother if it meant a greater profit margin.....those kinda mindsets don't equate to long-term employee satisfaction....

All justified Franko.
You fired the 2 who were knobs.
The 2 good guys had to go because one lost his voice and the other was the assumed source behind more leaks than the New Orleans levies and those fans he trusted w/ stuff burnt him.
Not one of those changes was unjustified.

[strangegrey]

All justified Franko.
You fired the 2 who were knobs.
The 2 good guys had to go because one lost his voice and the other was the assumed source behind more leaks than the New Orleans levies and those fans he trusted w/ stuff burnt him.
Not one of those changes was unjustified.

You're missing the point. The justification for such changes comes out of Schon's mouth...if you want to trust that as gospel, well, go ahead. The point I'm making is that, given the history here....his side of things isn't really that verifiable anymore. Im not so sure I believe much of the 'spin' that rolls out of nomota any more.

Plus, we all know the real reason one was fired was because he charged a pizza to Schlong's room...

[strangegrey]

Uhh..Schon had nothing to do with Fleischman getting axed. That was 100% HH via pressure from the label. He didn't give them a choice. Augeri's voice gave out, they didn't have a choice. And Perry left on his own, twice. So other than the debacle that was JSS, I don't really see your point have much validity to it. Has it been a circus of singers? Yes. But I think to blame that all on two people is short sided, and not taking all of the factors into account.

Look, the Flieschman thing is probably no more than a blip on the radar. So a guy didn't work out for a few months. Lot's of bands go through tons of singers before narrowing down on the one. I get it.


The point here, is that there's a GREAT deal of turmoil in the singer seat of this band.

You can say Perry left, but seriously...that's splitting hairs. You walk into your boss's office after getting called in, expecting a fight. he goes "You're FIRED!" you reply "NO WAY! I QUIT!!"

Seriously, what the fuck's the difference in that situation?

Perry left twice....I'd be willing to bet if they could've gotten away with it, they would have sacked him both times anyway.


Augeri's voice did go on him...but if you're going to sit there with a straight face and say that 1) the circumstances the other dickheads in the band established didn't contribute to his voice going....2) He wasn't ousted in a most disgraceful and shameful way....well, enjoy the crack.

As for JSS....again, I need to remember not to order Pizza on my employer's dime. It could cost me my job....



I scoff at the insistence that all of these changes were justifiable. Sorry. 1 or 2 maybe....but when you go through 4,5 or 6 singers....it starts to look bad!

[yulog]

the band has a history of really brutal replacing.

Nah, just picked SOME prickish singers who had to be deep-sixed.

Oh come on, it takes two to tango....

You come on.
Carcinogens must be 86'd lest they mestasticize. Not talking about all of the ex singers but in the case of Flieschman it's been implied he was a little difficult too.

Not arguing that. But you did respond to someone saying "there's a history of really brutal replacing"....which there IS! You can't deny it. The history is right there for anyone to see.

Now maybe some of these singers got what was coming...but think about it. You lose one bad singer, two maybe. When you've sacked several, you start thinking that maybe the problem isn't just the singer!!


This sorta thing happened with Van Halen. They split with Roth, everyone assumed the flamboyant, always smart-ass Roth was the reason behind the split. Then the split with Sammy happens...people start musing (rightfully) that maybe Ed's part of the problem. Then Cherone gets sacked. Hagar lasts one reunion tour. Mikey was sacked years ago, but stayed on as a salaried employee.....then finally back with Roth and donut boy on bass.

Once you start seeing the pattern, you realize that maybe it wasn't the singer's fault all along. No amount of claiming "lead singers disease" can change public opinion that Eddie is the virus, NOT Sammy, Roth, Cherone, Mikey, etc...


Same goes for Journey. When Perry splits the first time, you assume that maybe Perry was the fuckwad. You can dismiss the Flieshman thing as just an experiment gone bad. But when you look at the band's history with lead singers IN THE AGGREGATE, it is VERY clear that the problem IS NOT ENTIRELY THE FAULT OF THE SINGER. Flieshman, Perry, Perry (again), Augeri, JSS, (soon to be) Pineda.

There might be some carcinogenic singers in lists for both bands...but dude, there is an UGLY history there....Neal's a douchebucket. Cain will fire his mother if it meant a greater profit margin.....those kinda mindsets don't equate to long-term employee satisfaction....

Uhh..Schon had nothing to do with Fleischman getting axed. That was 100% HH via pressure from the label. He didn't give them a choice. Augeri's voice gave out, they didn't have a choice. And Perry left on his own, twice. So other than the debacle that was JSS, I don't really see your point have much validity to it. Has it been a circus of singers? Yes. But I think to blame that all on two people is short sided, and not taking all of the factors into account.

AHH, the voice of reason, you win that one by a country mile

[yulog]

the band has a history of really brutal replacing.

Nah, just picked SOME prickish singers who had to be deep-sixed.

Oh come on, it takes two to tango....

You come on.
Carcinogens must be 86'd lest they mestasticize. Not talking about all of the ex singers but in the case of Flieschman it's been implied he was a little difficult too.

Not arguing that. But you did respond to someone saying "there's a history of really brutal replacing"....which there IS! You can't deny it. The history is right there for anyone to see.

Now maybe some of these singers got what was coming...but think about it. You lose one bad singer, two maybe. When you've sacked several, you start thinking that maybe the problem isn't just the singer!!


This sorta thing happened with Van Halen. They split with Roth, everyone assumed the flamboyant, always smart-ass Roth was the reason behind the split. Then the split with Sammy happens...people start musing (rightfully) that maybe Ed's part of the problem. Then Cherone gets sacked. Hagar lasts one reunion tour. Mikey was sacked years ago, but stayed on as a salaried employee.....then finally back with Roth and donut boy on bass.

Once you start seeing the pattern, you realize that maybe it wasn't the singer's fault all along. No amount of claiming "lead singers disease" can change public opinion that Eddie is the virus, NOT Sammy, Roth, Cherone, Mikey, etc...


Same goes for Journey. When Perry splits the first time, you assume that maybe Perry was the fuckwad. You can dismiss the Flieshman thing as just an experiment gone bad. But when you look at the band's history with lead singers IN THE AGGREGATE, it is VERY clear that the problem IS NOT ENTIRELY THE FAULT OF THE SINGER. Flieshman, Perry, Perry (again), Augeri, JSS, (soon to be) Pineda.

There might be some carcinogenic singers in lists for both bands...but dude, there is an UGLY history there....Neal's a douchebucket. Cain will fire his mother if it meant a greater profit margin.....those kinda mindsets don't equate to long-term employee satisfaction....

All justified Franko.
You fired the 2 who were knobs.
The 2 good guys had to go because one lost his voice and the other was the assumed source behind more leaks than the New Orleans levies and those fans he trusted w/ stuff burnt him.
Not one of those changes was unjustified.

We have another winner!

[Jana]

Onestepper said: "Uhh..Schon had nothing to do with Fleischman getting axed. That was 100% HH via pressure from the label. He didn't give them a choice. Augeri's voice gave out, they didn't have a choice. And Perry left on his own, twice. So other than the debacle that was JSS, I don't really see your point have much validity to it. Has it been a circus of singers? Yes. But I think to blame that all on two people is short sided, and not taking all of the factors into account."


Onestepper rocks. Great, objective recounting of Journey's lead singers and why and how they left, instead of some rewritten version by some to fit with their hatred of Neal and Jon.

Neal mishandled JSS's departure horribly. Only one that they deserve criticism on. Not that they let him go. I feel it was the right decision for many reasons for Journey, but the way in which they let him go could have been handled better.

[artist4perry]

I love armchair quarterbacks...........pass the popcorn someone please!

[whirlwind]

I love armchair quarterbacks...........pass the popcorn someone please!

Sorry, I ate it all.

[artist4perry]

I love armchair quarterbacks...........pass the popcorn someone please!

Sorry, I ate it all.

Pig!

[cinkidd]

Any way that you look at the history of Journey and their lead singers leaving the band it is not a good.

Would you honestly wish to work for an outfit that makes the personal decisions that Journey has made?
Let's not forget that Ross Valory was given a mandate by HH to get better or be gone.
Or how about RV and SS getting the axe before/during the making of ROR.
Let's not forget HH getting fired by the band.
Steve Perry being fired/quit thing just in my opinion should not have happened.
Steve Augeri getting fired was the worst this band has done to date in my opinion, when all along they were saying "He is our brother, he will be back."
JSS was holy crap wrong, but I sure don't know the whole story behind it, but that did leave a bad taste in ones mouth.
JH was given the job only to have it yanked out from him. And to make matters worse is that recently Journey management said that he was never even offered the job.
Hopefully AP will have much better luck that all of the lead singers before him.

All in all you have several key players that are still with the band that have been involved in the decision making process since before Escape,HH, SP, JC, NS after TBF you have only two JC and NS. You can place all the blame on your favorite person to blame in the band or you can look to see who has been around for most of the decisions.

I'm a firm believer that we will never know the whole truth behind each decision, but it does not take one a calculator to find who the common demonenators are.

Rich the Involved Guy

[stevew2]

Any way that you look at the history of Journey and their lead singers leaving the band it is not a good.

Would you honestly wish to work for an outfit that makes the personal decisions that Journey has made?
Let's not forget that Ross Valory was given a mandate by HH to get better or be gone.
Or how about RV and SS getting the axe before/during the making of ROR.
Let's not forget HH getting fired by the band.
Steve Perry being fired/quit thing just in my opinion should not have happened.
Steve Augeri getting fired was the worst this band has done to date in my opinion, when all along they were saying "He is our brother, he will be back."
JSS was holy crap wrong, but I sure don't know the whole story behind it, but that did leave a bad taste in ones mouth.
JH was given the job only to have it yanked out from him. And to make matters worse is that recently Journey management said that he was never even offered the job.
Hopefully AP will have much better luck that all of the lead singers before him.

All in all you have several key players that are still with the band that have been involved in the decision making process since before Escape,HH, SP, JC, NS after TBF you have only two JC and NS. You can place all the blame on your favorite person to blame in the band or you can look to see who has been around for most of the decisions.

I'm a firm believer that we will never know the whole truth behind each decision, but it does not take one a calculator to find who the common demonenators are.

Rich the Involved Guy

Is this your chair while posting?

[verslibre]

Let's not forget that Ross Valory was given a mandate by HH to get better or be gone.

Wasn't Herb tired/drunk or something when he bugged Ross about that? It's not like Journey's music is about the basslines. It's not like his "virtuosic basslines" are being downmixed into the gutter as with John Myung of Dream Theater.