MR

Ok folks... I'm still torn here, so without having to comment futher (you can if you wish)...please vote!

A full history would include EVERYTHING incuding side projects and would not have a deadline for completion....I'm thinking 3 years at least.

I was going for the Herbie Herbert book but since this is will be a full history, I guess HH will be in it so full history it is for me . Then maybe someone will make a movie out of it, lol.

I voted for the whole thing. If you're going to do it, and I know it would be a much, much bigger project, then it should be done all the way.

The whole kitty.
Go or go home I say. Who else but you? And if not now, when?

Neal, Jon, and Ross are downright idiots to not want a part of this. Those guys better realize they're in their sunset years here and the interest peaked decades ago. What do they want? To paint themselves as aural ghosts in the future? The band some remember and even less know?

Maybe they're hiding from the past, maybe they can't talk. Maybe they're just too lazy.

A book of their history done right by someone like you, Andrew, would be a major step away from the farcical. So authorized or not... go for it.

The fans deserve it.

just seems you're gonna be swimming upstream the whole time on this...I vote no book...just because you have better things to do with the next three years...

Andrew wrote:Ok folks... I'm still torn here, so without having to comment futher (you can if you wish)...please vote!

A full history would include EVERYTHING incuding side projects and would not have a deadline for completion....I'm thinking 3 years at least.

You need to decide what YOU are most passionate about and do that project. What people think in this forum may be encouraging, but what YOU have passion for is what will be completed, and where you will do your best writing. Taking polls and asking what others think can be a way of procrastinating and, in the end, not starting anything.

Writers write. If you think you are a writier, then writie something.

Andrew wrote:Ok folks... I'm still torn here, so without having to comment futher (you can if you wish)...please vote!

A full history would include EVERYTHING incuding side projects and would not have a deadline for completion....I'm thinking 3 years at least.

Hey Chief,I voted for the whole thing from start to now in the 60's.
Start from the begining Andrew,Its just my opinion,I'm jusy sayin!

Monker wrote:

Andrew wrote:Ok folks... I'm still torn here, so without having to comment futher (you can if you wish)...please vote!

A full history would include EVERYTHING incuding side projects and would not have a deadline for completion....I'm thinking 3 years at least.

You need to decide what YOU are most passionate about and do that project. What people think in this forum may be encouraging, but what YOU have passion for is what will be completed, and where you will do your best writing. Taking polls and asking what others think can be a way of procrastinating and, in the end, not starting anything.

True indeed! Normally...but in this case I'm hoping that stating something publicly will be the fire under my ass

I still say the man behind the curtain may be a more interesting, colorful character to focus on...maybe even more so then those in front of it. Doing a complete history of the band unauthorized will only be compiling what has already been written and will be very time consuming and a huge hassle getting permissions of use for both article contents and photos . There would have to be a long bibliography and use of some method of documentation...end notes, footnotes, cross referencing, etc...and it could end up being a accusations of plagiarism nightmare in the end.

As I said in the other thread, HH can not only give his perspective and his experiences of his history with the band but he can also speak about the music industry as a whole and his experiences within it and with other musicians as well. He also lived the San Francisco music scene through historic times in rock music. He may also have a private collection of photos to use that have never been seen by the general public before. All of that along with his business acumen. If he were to agree you could spend some time with him to get a good sense of the man and then do as many phone interviews as it takes. I don't think doing his bio would be nearly as complicated nor as possibly problematic as doing something unauthorized on your own. You would only be dealing with one person..getting everything you need from him and it would be a firsthand accounting.

You can get the whole history of his time with the band from Herbie Herbert, plus his knowledge of and any insights and experiences he's had with them since. His time with the band was at the beginning..even before that with Santana and two of the members... and through the height.

The whole history.

Blueskies wrote:I still say the man behind the curtain may be a more interesting, colorful character to focus on...maybe even moreso then those in front of it. Doing a complete history of the band unauthorized will only be compiling what has already been written and will be very time consuming and a huge hassle getting permissions of use for both article contents and photos . There would have to be a long bibliography and use of some method of documentation...endnotes, footnotes, cross referencing, etc...and it could end up being a accusations of plagiarism nightmare in the end.

As I said in the other thread, HH can not only give his perspective and his experiences of his history with the band but he can also speak about the music industry as a whole and his experiences within it and with other musicians as well. He also lived the San Fransisco music scene through historic times in rock music. He may also have a private collection of photos to use that have never been seen by the general public before. All of that along with his business acumen. If he were to agree you could spend some time with him to get a good sense of the man and then do as many phone interviews as it takes. I don't think doing his bio would be nearly as complicated nor as possibly problematic as doing something unauthorized on your own. You would only be dealing with one person..getting everything you need from him and it would be a firsthand accounting.

You can get the whole history of his time with the band from Herbie Herbert, plus his knowledge of and any insights and experiences he's had with them since. His time with the band was at the beginning..even before that with Santana and two of the members... and through the height.

Plus...he's hilarious and wildly indiscreet about it all...and this could help it cross-over into the general rock market too.

Great post...the most convincing argument so far I reckon....

Matthew wrote:

Blueskies wrote:I still say the man behind the curtain may be a more interesting, colorful character to focus on...maybe even moreso then those in front of it. Doing a complete history of the band unauthorized will only be compiling what has already been written and will be very time consuming and a huge hassle getting permissions of use for both article contents and photos . There would have to be a long bibliography and use of some method of documentation...endnotes, footnotes, cross referencing, etc...and it could end up being a accusations of plagiarism nightmare in the end.

As I said in the other thread, HH can not only give his perspective and his experiences of his history with the band but he can also speak about the music industry as a whole and his experiences within it and with other musicians as well. He also lived the San Fransisco music scene through historic times in rock music. He may also have a private collection of photos to use that have never been seen by the general public before. All of that along with his business acumen. If he were to agree you could spend some time with him to get a good sense of the man and then do as many phone interviews as it takes. I don't think doing his bio would be nearly as complicated nor as possibly problematic as doing something unauthorized on your own. You would only be dealing with one person..getting everything you need from him and it would be a firsthand accounting.

You can get the whole history of his time with the band from Herbie Herbert, plus his knowledge of and any insights and experiences he's had with them since. His time with the band was at the beginning..even before that with Santana and two of the members... and through the height.

Plus...he's hilarious and wildly indiscreet about it all...and this could help it cross-over into the general rock market too.

Great post...the most convincing argument so far I reckon....

True. A HH story would sure be a spicy read as the man never held back his thoughts when he was asked about something. He also was the eye witness of the most interesting Journey era, the one that the fans want to hear about the most.
But there's just one little problem: Herbie's willingness to do this. As well as Andrews.

I vote for Monker's post.

Thanks, Matthew. If Andrew doesn't want to do it I would love to. IF I had previous experience in writing for the music scene or anything else and been published. So far the only published work I have had in writing was a bit in college, some ads, menu's, etc.. for the family business and when I was the sports editor for my high school magazine .....so I doubt HH would grant me access with that.

*Laura wrote:

Matthew wrote:

Blueskies wrote:I still say the man behind the curtain may be a more interesting, colorful character to focus on...maybe even moreso then those in front of it. Doing a complete history of the band unauthorized will only be compiling what has already been written and will be very time consuming and a huge hassle getting permissions of use for both article contents and photos . There would have to be a long bibliography and use of some method of documentation...endnotes, footnotes, cross referencing, etc...and it could end up being a accusations of plagiarism nightmare in the end.

As I said in the other thread, HH can not only give his perspective and his experiences of his history with the band but he can also speak about the music industry as a whole and his experiences within it and with other musicians as well. He also lived the San Fransisco music scene through historic times in rock music. He may also have a private collection of photos to use that have never been seen by the general public before. All of that along with his business acumen. If he were to agree you could spend some time with him to get a good sense of the man and then do as many phone interviews as it takes. I don't think doing his bio would be nearly as complicated nor as possibly problematic as doing something unauthorized on your own. You would only be dealing with one person..getting everything you need from him and it would be a firsthand accounting.

You can get the whole history of his time with the band from Herbie Herbert, plus his knowledge of and any insights and experiences he's had with them since. His time with the band was at the beginning..even before that with Santana and two of the members... and through the height.

Plus...he's hilarious and wildly indiscreet about it all...and this could help it cross-over into the general rock market too.

Great post...the most convincing argument so far I reckon....

True. A HH story would sure be a spicy read as the man never held back his thoughts when he was asked about something. He also was the eye witness of the most interesting Journey era, the one that the fans want to hear about the most.
But there's just one little problem: Herbie's willingness to do this. As well as Andrews.

I vote for Monker's post.

Remember the Castles Burning interview? I think that's what it was called, anyway. Didn't Herbie say somewhere in there about no one asking him before? I think he was ready to talk..wanted to talk and probably talked a lot more for that Behind The Music piece then what was aired, of course, too. He comes across to me as a man that won't hold back and has an ego that if asked to do his bio would be more then willing. He does seem rather bragadocious about his achievements. If Andrew is interested there is a chance he may have a willing subject....who knows.

I voted for the full book. Take the time.

see comment in other thread......I wrote before I saw this.

coffee table book on ESCAPE--mostly pics

Rick wrote:I voted for the whole thing. If you're going to do it, and I know it would be a much, much bigger project, then it should be done all the way.

Same vote.

Only do the whole thing if you can give us the good AND the bad, like getting the real skinny on Tape Gate, even if you have to interview that Scandinavian engineer. Don't sugarcoat anything. If Perry was up to his eyeballs in blow the first few years when he was hitting those insanely high notes, tell us so.

Why are some of you insisting on wanting a "whole thing?" Andrew can't possibly pull that off. He doesn't have either side talking, and there are sides here. Neal won't talk. Friga won't talk. Perry won't talk. What the Hell is it going to be, a bunch of copy and paste newspaper articles, Tiger Beat interviews, a summation on the arcade game? Gimme a break. It will a complete waste of time, and we hardcores won't learn a Goddamned thing new. Even is SP were to open up, which he will never do, it would be a one sided affair.

Screw the entire book and screw the Escape deal too. If you can't get a single faction to comment, it's a moot point.

Screw Herbert as well. I used to love that guy, but he is nothing but a bitter man, who will say colorful shit, but it will be laden with bias as thick as Rosie O'Donells thighs. Fuck that too.

The obvious choice here is a rock n roll sitcom. AjM, you threw this idea at me long ago. I also have thought about this idea and to me it's the most practical and probable.

This is not a slam against Mac at all- Love the dude like a brother, but without the chord, you can't have any power. You are riding a bike without pedals my friend. If these assholes, I mean that from the deepest part of my heart, because they are exactly that, won't give you the time of day, move on to a band that will. Journey ain't that fuckin' special.

I think that some are overlooking the fact that with HH you would be getting a full history, yes just based on his perspective but if you do an unauthorized history then you will only have whats been said and done for the most part, nothing new to add. Maybe with tons of digging and persuasion from someone that didn't sign any confidentiality agreement that was actually involved at some point to give a first hand account who could be persuaded that hasn't been heard before you may get a few tidbits but nothing really in depth and you may get a lot of second, third, etc...accounts that would have to be tracked down to try to verify and quite possibly a lot of conjecture to what someone only thinks but doesn't really know as fact.

Not only does the idea have to sell to the public but the idea also has to be sold to a publisher so I think a book just based on information and pictures that are already out there to be easily found would be a harder sell then one of a first hand account of someone directly involved and is part of the story, with HH as a founder and an undeniable influence to the success of the band you would have first hand involvement. There's the been there, seen it already aspect vs. something more in depth with a first hand involvement account who has many facets of character and experiences.

If you just want a known history compiled in one book as a keepsake to sit on the coffee table then that's fine but if you want something with an accounting of firsthand experience that may have some new information with in...a real read with a narrative rather then just a picture book then I think a book from HH's perspective would be more interesting, not only for the reader but something that has more selling points like I've stated before that might have a better chance of garnering a publishers interest.
Just my 2 coppers.

Rockindeano wrote:Why are some of you insisting on wanting a "whole thing?" Andrew can't possibly pull that off. He doesn't have either side talking, and there are sides here. Neal won't talk. Friga won't talk. Perry won't talk. What the Hell is it going to be, a bunch of copy and paste newspaper articles, Tiger Beat interviews, a summation on the arcade game? Gimme a break. It will a complete waste of time, and we hardcores won't learn a Goddamned thing new. Even is SP were to open up, which he will never do, it would be a one sided affair.

Screw the entire book and screw the Escape deal too. If you can't get a single faction to comment, it's a moot point.

Screw Herbert as well. I used to love that guy, but he is nothing but a bitter man, who will say colorful shit, but it will be laden with bias as thick as Rosie O'Donells thighs. Fuck that too.

The obvious choice here is a rock n roll sitcom. AjM, you threw this idea at me long ago. I also have thought about this idea and to me it's the most practical and probable.

This is not a slam against Mac at all- Love the dude like a brother, but without the chord, you can't have any power. You are riding a bike without pedals my friend. If these assholes, I mean that from the deepest part of my heart, because they are exactly that, won't give you the time of day, move on to a band that will. Journey ain't that fuckin' special.

Who came up with that Rock Of Ages Act? Something like that could be a money maker.

Deano, what bio isn't laden with bias? A first hand account is just that, how someone saw things from their perspective of involvement. So thats a given with anyone's accounting of their life, be it Schon, Cain, Perry or Herbert.
Ask yourself this: Who would actually be the most colorful character to read what they have to say and in how they say it?

Rockindeano wrote:Why are some of you insisting on wanting a "whole thing?" Andrew can't possibly pull that off. He doesn't have either side talking, and there are sides here. Neal won't talk. Friga won't talk. Perry won't talk. What the Hell is it going to be, a bunch of copy and paste newspaper articles, Tiger Beat interviews, a summation on the arcade game? Gimme a break. It will a complete waste of time, and we hardcores won't learn a Goddamned thing new. Even is SP were to open up, which he will never do, it would be a one sided affair.

Screw the entire book and screw the Escape deal too. If you can't get a single faction to comment, it's a moot point.

Screw Herbert as well. I used to love that guy, but he is nothing but a bitter man, who will say colorful shit, but it will be laden with bias as thick as Rosie O'Donells thighs. Fuck that too.

The obvious choice here is a rock n roll sitcom. AjM, you threw this idea at me long ago. I also have thought about this idea and to me it's the most practical and probable.

This is not a slam against Mac at all- Love the dude like a brother, but without the chord, you can't have any power. You are riding a bike without pedals my friend. If these assholes, I mean that from the deepest part of my heart, because they are exactly that, won't give you the time of day, move on to a band that will. Journey ain't that fuckin' special.

You pretty much said what I feel just with a little better spelling

Blueskies wrote:Deano, what bio isn't laden with bias? A first hand account is just that, how someone saw things from their perspective of involvement. So thats a given with anyone's accounting of their life.

I am not interested in someone's view point. I am interested in what exactly happened happened. If I want HH's view point, then I will read the Castles Burning. I know AjM interviewed Burger Boy recently, but I have went back and read his interview and it has absolutely zero credibility to it(CB). Too biased and too hateful.

Gunbot wrote:
Who came up with that Rock Of Ages Act? Something like that could be a money maker.

When I was hanging with the band, I had this idea hit and run with this type of idea. I think Drew has a better understanding of what he wants to do and I'll leave it at that. I would love to however, corroborate with him on this. He lacks humour sometimes, IMO.

Being the litigious fucks that they are, do you really want to go through the hassle of trying to give an accurate account of the band's history? Would you be willing to deal with their bullshit if they decided to sue you for libel over some content in your book? Just seems likes a lot of work. This ain't Jose Canseco you're trying to paint a story around.

Rockindeano wrote:

Blueskies wrote:Deano, what bio isn't laden with bias? A first hand account is just that, how someone saw things from their perspective of involvement. So thats a given with anyone's accounting of their life.

I am not interested in someone's view point. I am interested in what exactly happened happened. If I want HH's view point, then I will read the Castles Burning. I know AjM interviewed Burger Boy recently, but I have went back and read his interview and it has absolutely zero credibility to it(CB). Too biased and too hateful.

I think with a book Andrew would be able to sift out the unnecessary and with talking to him call him on something that may be too unfairly biased. He could talk things over with him and make sure that's how he wants his view told..that's where a good interviewer comes in, to ask the right questions and to listen and observe with attention to detail..but heck, what good would a bio be if he wasn't honest about his experiences and with what he thinks? IF what he says is what he thinks then that's his perspective. As I also mentioned in the other thread..if the band members don't like his account of things then they could do a bio themselves as well.

I am not talking about just HH's accounting of his experiences with the band either, although that would be in there, I'm talking about a biography of his life...a full account which would include many other things like I have stated before in this thread and the other....a bio which would reach more peoples interest then just Journey fans.

Gunbot wrote:Being the litigious fucks that they are, do you really want to go through the hassle of trying to give an accurate account of the band's history? Would you be willing to deal with their bullshit if they decided to sue you for libel over some content in your book? Just seems likes a lot of work. This ain't Jose Canseco you're trying to paint a story around.

Well Herbert is not binding to anything. He didn't sign a single gag order. It could be his recollection, his story, and if the band didn't like it, they can fuck each other because it wouldn't matter. The onus would be on them to prove HH lied. However, why would Andrew be just a transcriber? Waste of time.

I just don't like the idea of a HH POV. Wouldn't spend a dollar on that.

Rockindeano wrote:

Gunbot wrote:Being the litigious fucks that they are, do you really want to go through the hassle of trying to give an accurate account of the band's history? Would you be willing to deal with their bullshit if they decided to sue you for libel over some content in your book? Just seems likes a lot of work. This ain't Jose Canseco you're trying to paint a story around.

Well Herbert is not binding to anything. He didn't sign a single gag order. It could be his recollection, his story, and if the band didn't like it, they can fuck each other because it wouldn't matter. The onus would be on them to prove HH lied. However, why would Andrew be just a transcriber? Waste of time.

I just don't like the idea of a HH POV. Wouldn't spend a dollar on that.

There are ghost authors and there are known authors who get the credit on the cover. There have been numerous " transcribers" to bio's and the biography shelves of any bookstore and library attests that it wasn't a waste of time for many.

Herbie always speaks his mind, bitter or not, biased or not, he just airs the dirty laundry. Many people don't agree with his vitriolic approach, but that's who he is. He's a character, the Howard Stern of Rock'n'Roll if you want - outrageous, obnoxious and funny. Love him or hate him, his story would be entertaining and it would sell, just like Howard's did.