MR

If Perry collaborated with Jon on songs to be used on a Journey Album, would this be acceptable to most of you?
Only as a song writer; no singing, performing or anything like that. Arnel would still be the work mule in that department.
Would that work for many of you? Or do you think that Journey should sink or swim with what they have now as far as song writing contributions from the current lineup.

That would work for me. But I'm just not sure it would help. The guy wrote (parts of) one album completely outside of Journey (FTLOSM) and it was terrible.

It should be the opposite. Steve Perry needs Jon to help him on his upcoming solo album.

I think what you are asking is "what are the chances Perry returns to Journey", because the aforementioned scenario is the ONLY way I can see co-writing between those two taking place ever again.

kgdjpubs wrote:I think what you are asking is "what are the chances Perry returns to Journey", because the aforementioned scenario is the ONLY way I can see co-writing between those two taking place ever again.

Fair assessment.

Doesn't matter to me. It's only his voice that I was a fan of. It would most likely make no difference to people that are not fans of this incarnation as there were quite a few well written songs that Perry had no part of, but would have been hits if they had his voice.

Jana wrote:It should be the opposite. Steve Perry needs Jon to help him on his upcoming solo album.

Perry had six top 40 hits outside of Journey without Cain. (A solo career of two albums, with one released at the height of the grunge movement. In comaparison, Escape and Frontiers had 8 top 40 hits combined). Granted, the only one he wrote the majority of lyrics for by himself was 'Don't Fight It' but he has proven that he can collaborate with others OUTSIDE of Journey and have some success. Jon hasn't really done that, has he?
I'm talking about Perry bringing something back to the table to help Journey. Neal and Jon by themselves seem to have hit the repeat button, soundwise. I think the third wheel of Perry, where he is not the one singing can bring some new energy into what they are doing.

Don wrote:

Jana wrote:It should be the opposite. Steve Perry needs Jon to help him on his upcoming solo album.

Perry had six top 40 hits outside of Journey without Cain. (A solo career of two albums, with one released at the height of the grunge movement. In comaparison, Escape and Frontiers had 8 top 40 hits combined). Granted, the only one he wrote the majority of lyrics for by himself was 'Don't Fight It' but he has proven that he can collaborate with others OUTSIDE of Journey and have some success. Jon hasn't really done that, has he?
I'm talking about Perry bringing something back to the table to help Journey. Neal and Jon by themselves seem to have hit the repeat button, soundwise. I think the third wheel of Perry, where he is not the one singing can bring some new energry into what they are doing.

I disagree with that. His songs outside of Journey either sounded a lot like Journey or stayed in the field of love and heartache. Not a very foreign subject for Journey. What he COULD do though, was take a simple few lines of lyrics and add his cookisms to it and turn it into magic with soaring vocals. That can't really be accomplished from the sidelines.

It's up to Arnel to show his own style and input, IMO.

I could only see him doing this as a phantom song writer. The way things are now between him and the band, I couldn't imagine him wanting to be publicly associated with the success of Journey without him also at the mic.

Saint John wrote:

kgdjpubs wrote:I think what you are asking is "what are the chances Perry returns to Journey", because the aforementioned scenario is the ONLY way I can see co-writing between those two taking place ever again.

Fair assessment.

I know that. However, after seeing Arnel's attempts at poetry/haiku or what not that he likes to put up on his FB, I'm not too convinced of his ability to bring something great to the songwriting department. AP teaming up with Neal rather than Jon doesn't instill much confidence in me either.

Ligzig wrote:

Don wrote:

Jana wrote:It should be the opposite. Steve Perry needs Jon to help him on his upcoming solo album.

Perry had six top 40 hits outside of Journey without Cain. (A solo career of two albums, with one released at the height of the grunge movement. In comaparison, Escape and Frontiers had 8 top 40 hits combined). Granted, the only one he wrote the majority of lyrics for by himself was 'Don't Fight It' but he has proven that he can collaborate with others OUTSIDE of Journey and have some success. Jon hasn't really done that, has he?
I'm talking about Perry bringing something back to the table to help Journey. Neal and Jon by themselves seem to have hit the repeat button, soundwise. I think the third wheel of Perry, where he is not the one singing can bring some new energry into what they are doing.

I disagree with that. His songs outside of Journey either sounded a lot like Journey or stayed in the field of love and heartache. Not a very foreign subject for Journey. What he COULD do though, was take a simple few lines of lyrics and add his cookisms to it and turn it into magic with soaring vocals. That can't really be accomplished from the sidelines.

It's up to Arnel to show his own style and input, IMO.

True. some of my favorite Journey songs are simplistic, average songwriting, but love it because of Perry's voice and delivery - I'm Cryin'.

Plus, it's a silly question. Steve would never write with Journey for another singer. I think Journey should use some of the Arrival co-writers. I love that album.

Don wrote:AP teaming up with Neal rather than Jon doesn't instill much confidence in me either.

I tend to agree with you on this. Jonathan Cain has always been Journey's main songwriter and melody creator. Without him, I'm hearing Red13 all over again, and that was simply a heap of shit. Cain gave the songs melody, Schon gave them life, Perry made them feel real and Ross and Smitty gave them backbone.

Saint John wrote:

Don wrote:AP teaming up with Neal rather than Jon doesn't instill much confidence in me either.

I tend to agree with you on this. Jonathan Cain has always been Journey's main songwriter and melody creator. Without him, I'm hearing Red13 all over again, and that was simply a heap of shit. Cain gave the songs melody, Schon gave them life, Perry made them feel real and Ross and Smitty gave them backbone.

lyrically, Red13 might have been some of the best stuff they have done. What it was in need of was some choruses and a producer to cut the pieces of music back to "songs".

I agree with your assessment of the strengths of the people....but you need someone who is strong enough to get "Journey" out of the separate influences. The talent is there in abundance. Finding out how to meld it into a cohesive whole is the hard part. That's where your producer earns his money with this band.

Don wrote:If Perry collaborated with Jon on songs to be used on a Journey Album, would this be acceptable to most of you?
Only as a song writer; no singing, performing or anything like that. Arnel would still be the work mule in that department.
Would that work for many of you? Or do you think that Journey should sink or swim with what they have now as far as song writing contributions from the current lineup.

If he's not putting his voice to the song ...it's a complete waste of time, for me!! It's
his voice that made the not so great lyrics, highly extraordinary!! Arnel has simply got to find his own voice/feel
for a song, SP can't help him out aaaannnnneeeeemore!!

I get that it's a silly question but doesn't most of the stuff we post here fall under the same catagory?

It's 2010. 3.5 albums post Perry and the only Journey song getting pub is DSB. If people are going to continue to go to Perry for interviews, despite his being out of the band since forever, why not have him do something that shines a little light on the current state of the band? He get's paid like a motherfucker, right? Why not use Perry to the band's advantage?

Don wrote:I get that it's a silly question but doesn't most of the stuff we post here fall under the same catagory?

It's 2010. 3.5 albums post Perry and the only Journey song getting pub is DSB. If people are going to continue to go to Perry for interviews, despite his being out of the band since forever, why not have him do something that shines a little light on the current state of the band? He get's paid like a motherfucker, right? Why not use Perry to the band's advantage?

He sounds too depressed. He just said the "Dodgers saved him in a way" in an interview. I don't know what kind of music he can bring to be in a state that a baseball team can save him just by including him.

Don wrote:I get that it's a silly question but doesn't most of the stuff we post here fall under the same catagory?

It's 2010. 3.5 albums post Perry and the only Journey song getting pub is DSB. If people are going to continue to go to Perry for interviews, despite his being out of the band since forever, why not have him do something that shines a little light on the current state of the band? He get's paid like a motherfucker, right? Why not use Perry to the band's advantage?

if Perry won't or can't do anything for his own career (ie new album, tour), what possible incentive does he have to help Journey succeed without him? It's a bitter enough wound as is--no need to throw salt on it.

kgdjpubs wrote:

Don wrote:I get that it's a silly question but doesn't most of the stuff we post here fall under the same catagory?

It's 2010. 3.5 albums post Perry and the only Journey song getting pub is DSB. If people are going to continue to go to Perry for interviews, despite his being out of the band since forever, why not have him do something that shines a little light on the current state of the band? He get's paid like a motherfucker, right? Why not use Perry to the band's advantage?

if Perry won't or can't do anything for his own career (ie new album, tour), what possible incentive does he have to help Journey succeed without him? It's a bitter enough wound as is--no need to throw salt on it.

Sad but true.

Don wrote:I get that it's a silly question but doesn't most of the stuff we post here fall under the same category?

If not worse!

Saint John wrote:

Don wrote:I get that it's a silly question but doesn't most of the stuff we post here fall under the same category?

If not worse!

I saw that.

Don wrote:

Saint John wrote:

Don wrote:I get that it's a silly question but doesn't most of the stuff we post here fall under the same category?

If not worse!

I saw that.

Saw what?

Saint John wrote:

Don wrote:

Saint John wrote:

Don wrote:I get that it's a silly question but doesn't most of the stuff we post here fall under the same category?

If not worse!

I saw that.

Saw what?

My grammar/spelling is complete shit today. It's usually bad but this morning I need a fix of school house rock in the worse way.

Don wrote:

Saint John wrote:

Don wrote:

Saint John wrote:

Don wrote:I get that it's a silly question but doesn't most of the stuff we post here fall under the same category?

If not worse!

I saw that.

Saw what?

My grammar/spelling is complete shit today. It's usually bad but this morning I need a fix of school house rock in the worse way.

I just can't help fixing the typos I see ... or pointing them out.

Jana wrote:

Don wrote:I get that it's a silly question but doesn't most of the stuff we post here fall under the same catagory?

It's 2010. 3.5 albums post Perry and the only Journey song getting pub is DSB. If people are going to continue to go to Perry for interviews, despite his being out of the band since forever, why not have him do something that shines a little light on the current state of the band? He get's paid like a motherfucker, right? Why not use Perry to the band's advantage?

He sounds too depressed. He just said the "Dodgers saved him in a way" in an interview. I don't know what kind of music he can bring to be in a state that a baseball team can save him just by including him.

He seemed far from depressed to me ....
I don't think SP was referring to the current time when he said he was saved by baseball.... the way I perceived that interview was.. back in 2007 ( or when ever SP said he was first introduced to baseball).... that is when baseball "saved" him... not because he was being included in the Giants World Series ....

Maybe.. just maybe... Perry is quite happy with where his "career" is... (or isn't)

I've long advocated the 'player-to-coach' scenario. If Perry wanted out, but didn't want to crack the stone, he should have simply retired to the studio. Still write with the band, still produce the band, and maybe do some cameo-recording. Then have the new guy tour it.


later~

slucero wrote:Maybe.. just maybe... Perry is quite happy with where his "career" is... (or isn't)

Yeah, the perpetual all-black clothing line, crying on consoles while mixing DVDs and avoiding any question on the condition of his voice paints the picture of a really "happy" guy.

I'm with MG...I have zero interest in seeing SP write with Journey to be sung by another vocalist other than himself...(not that would ever have a chance of happening unless he were re-uniting with the band, as Kj said).

I also agree with Don...SP is(were) quite capable of writing good songs outside of Journey. Granted, I have always preferred TBF over FTLOSM, but I also have a preference to SP-influenced songs over any in the non-SP Journey albums.

Saint John wrote:

slucero wrote:Maybe.. just maybe... Perry is quite happy with where his "career" is... (or isn't)

Yeah, the perpetual all-black clothing line, crying on consoles while mixing DVDs and avoiding any question on the condition of his voice paints the picture of a really "happy" guy.

I have a hell of alot more respect for him doing that rather than collecting the gate, rolling tape and miming for 2 hours. If Neil's band were men they would have offered refunds after they got called out.

Did they? No, they played it off and played shuffling singers and making a joke out of the band. Stone shattered!
Honestly they remind me of watching poor fat Ali getting his ass beat by Larry Holmes on Wide World of Sports in 1978.

Sad.

RedWingFan wrote:

Saint John wrote:

slucero wrote:Maybe.. just maybe... Perry is quite happy with where his "career" is... (or isn't)

Yeah, the perpetual all-black clothing line, crying on consoles while mixing DVDs and avoiding any question on the condition of his voice paints the picture of a really "happy" guy.

I have a hell of alot more respect for him doing that rather than collecting the gate, rolling tape and miming for 2 hours. If Neil's band were men they would have offered refunds after they got called out.

Did they? No, they played it off and played shuffling singers and making a joke out of the band. Stone shattered!
Honestly they remind me of watching poor fat Ali getting his ass beat by Larry Holmes on Wide World of Sports in 1978.

Sad.

I don't know. I certainly went to a lot of the Augeri era concerts and I have no complaints. The only problem I ever had was hearing Augeri's voice crack on occasion. I still look forward to concerts today. Your Loss!!!