MR

ROR

1986....we had a nice family get away home for the weekends on a pristine lake. Dad (me) had a Malibu Skier boat. We'd go out skiing for the day and listen to ROR while in the boat.


To this day they get really happy when the hear the intros to BGTY, Suzanne, IBAWY, etc.

Journey would be rightly placed to start catering to and playing some of these songs for the people who are now 25 - 30 something. Guaranteed, the place will go nuts and these songs will be appreciated. I don't understand why they don't play them much....I really don't. If they are really wanting to attract the younger fan base, nobody cares about pre-ROR Journey that much, in this age group. I've played the Houston DVD, the Greatest Hits DVD, The 2001, 2008, as well as live in Manila. The kids don't give a shit about most of it, except the ROR hits and a few off Revelation. The only two songs my daughter cares about, pre ROR are Open Arms and Send Her My Love.

steveo777 wrote:ROR

1986....we had a nice family get away home for the weekends on a pristine lake. Dad (me) had a Malibu Skier boat. We'd go out skiing for the day and listen to ROR while in the boat.


To this day they get really happy when the hear the intros to BGTY, Suzanne, IBAWY, etc.

Journey would be rightly placed to start catering to and playing some of these songs for the people who are now 25 - 30 something. Guaranteed, the place will go nuts and these songs will be appreciated. I don't understand why they don't play them much....I really don't. If they are really wanting to attract the younger fan base, nobody cares about pre-ROR Journey that much, in this age group. I've played the Houston DVD, the Greatest Hits DVD, The 2001, 2008, as well as live in Manila. The kids don't give a shit about most of it, except the ROR hits and a few off Revelation. The only two songs my daughter cares about, pre ROR are Open Arms and Send Her My Love.

Where do you come up w/your demographic information?!?! Your 25-30 yr. old children may not care about pre ROR, but
many do!! Exactly how many folks were included in this survey?!?! ROR is great, though, I agree!!

So your thesis is that people in the 25-30 age bracket will recognize Raised on Radio songs more than songs like DSB, Open Arms, Faithfully, Separate Ways, Lights, Who's Cryin Now, and the like? Come on man, that's absurd... and I speak as someone in that age bracket!

And I do like a lot of RoR myself... especially the tunes you mentioned.

They don't play much from ROR because the vast majority of the music on it is insulting to the caliber of musicians Journey has, and the failed R&B route left with the singer that mandated that trash. While Bon Jovi and Def Leppard were busy rocking the world with 20 million+ releases in Slippery When Wet and Hysteria, Moonface was singing gay songs like I'll Be Alright Without You and Girl Can't Help It, and Cain was tippy toeing around with a perm and pharmacist's lab coat. Yeah, let's make sure we go back and revisit that. BGTY and WCTNGOF are the only good songs on that album, respective to Journey.

Saint John wrote:They don't play much from ROR because the vast majority of the music on it is insulting to the caliber of musicians Journey has, and the failed R&B route left with the singer that mandated that trash. While Bon Jovi and Def Leppard were busy rocking the world with 20 million+ releases in Slippery When Wet and Hysteria, Moonface was singing gay songs like I'll Be Alright Without You and Girl Can't Help It, and Cain was tippy toeing around with a perm and pharmacist's lab coat. Yeah, let's make sure we go back and revisit that. BGTY and WCTNGOF are the only good songs on that album, respective to Journey.

Slam ROR all you want. You can pound your keyboard from now until you drop dead of old age, and it STILL won't change the fact that even the ROR era will be looked upon as the glory days compared to what Neil's band has become today.

Saint John wrote:They don't play much from ROR because the vast majority of the music on it is insulting to the caliber of musicians Journey has, and the failed R&B route left with the singer that mandated that trash. While Bon Jovi and Def Leppard were busy rocking the world with 20 million+ releases in Slippery When Wet and Hysteria, Moonface was singing gay songs like I'll Be Alright Without You and Girl Can't Help It, and Cain was tippy toeing around with a perm and pharmacist's lab coat. Yeah, let's make sure we go back and revisit that. BGTY and WCTNGOF are the only good songs on that album, respective to Journey.

Oh for fucks sake...this is a visual I didn't need. However, I just pulled up GCHI and sure enough, there is Twinkle Toes prancing around in his lab coat and his fake curly lettuce. My God, what the Hell was Friga thinking? My guess is he wasn't thinking at all.

RedWingFan wrote:

Saint John wrote:They don't play much from ROR because the vast majority of the music on it is insulting to the caliber of musicians Journey has, and the failed R&B route left with the singer that mandated that trash. While Bon Jovi and Def Leppard were busy rocking the world with 20 million+ releases in Slippery When Wet and Hysteria, Moonface was singing gay songs like I'll Be Alright Without You and Girl Can't Help It, and Cain was tippy toeing around with a perm and pharmacist's lab coat. Yeah, let's make sure we go back and revisit that. BGTY and WCTNGOF are the only good songs on that album, respective to Journey.

Slam ROR all you want. You can pound your keyboard from now until you drop dead of old age, and it STILL won't change the fact that even the ROR era will be looked upon as the glory days compared to what Neil's band has become today.

Comparing bands 25 years apart is virtually impossible to do. The music demographic is completely unfriendly to Journey's new music now, regardless of incarnation. What is possible, however, is to compare the route that Journey abandoned (the same one that Def Leppard and Bon Jovi continued down) and the one that they took (retreaded 60's and 70's sounds modified by an 80's band). They helped invent and popularize a genre of music, defined that sound, but had to abandon it it at its apex because one member wanted to hire, fire, produce, change album artwork and the album's name. That decision was terrible. And that is irrefutable.

Saint John wrote:

RedWingFan wrote:

Saint John wrote:They don't play much from ROR because the vast majority of the music on it is insulting to the caliber of musicians Journey has, and the failed R&B route left with the singer that mandated that trash. While Bon Jovi and Def Leppard were busy rocking the world with 20 million+ releases in Slippery When Wet and Hysteria, Moonface was singing gay songs like I'll Be Alright Without You and Girl Can't Help It, and Cain was tippy toeing around with a perm and pharmacist's lab coat. Yeah, let's make sure we go back and revisit that. BGTY and WCTNGOF are the only good songs on that album, respective to Journey.

Slam ROR all you want. You can pound your keyboard from now until you drop dead of old age, and it STILL won't change the fact that even the ROR era will be looked upon as the glory days compared to what Neil's band has become today.

Comparing bands 25 years apart is virtually impossible to do. The music demographic is completely unfriendly to Journey's new music now, regardless of incarnation. What is possible, however, is to compare the route that Journey abandoned (the same one that Def Leppard and Bon Jovi continued down) and the one that they took (retreaded 60's and 70's sounds modified by an 80's band). They helped invent and popularize a genre of music, defined that sound, but had to abandon it it at its apex because one member wanted to hire, fire, produce, change album artwork and the album's name. That decision was terrible. And that is irrefutable.

The guys in Leppard were how old in '86? Must have ranged from early 20's to mid-20's? How old were the Journey boys?
I don't blame Perry for wanting to play more mature music when he's pushing 40. What did you want them to record another Any Way You Want It, the way Neil's band recorded another Be Good To Yourself, with the ripoff leadtrack on Revelations? Never Walk Away it was called. Wow, how revolutionary!

Saint John wrote:they helped invent and popularize a genre of music, defined that sound, but had to abandon it it at its apex because one member wanted to hire, fire, produce, change album artwork and the album's name. That decision was terrible. And that is irrefutable.

Fucking dead on...

steveo777 wrote:ROR

1986....we had a nice family get away home for the weekends on a pristine lake. Dad (me) had a Malibu Skier boat. We'd go out skiing for the day and listen to ROR while in the boat.


To this day they get really happy when the hear the intros to BGTY, Suzanne, IBAWY, etc.

Journey would be rightly placed to start catering to and playing some of these songs for the people who are now 25 - 30 something. Guaranteed, the place will go nuts and these songs will be appreciated. I don't understand why they don't play them much....I really don't. If they are really wanting to attract the younger fan base, nobody cares about pre-ROR Journey that much, in this age group. I've played the Houston DVD, the Greatest Hits DVD, The 2001, 2008, as well as live in Manila. The kids don't give a shit about most of it, except the ROR hits and a few off Revelation. The only two songs my daughter cares about, pre ROR are Open Arms and Send Her My Love.

What ruined Journey's sound were AOR and Friga (and now to a greater extent Deen. The fucker got absolutely no feel at all and hammers on the drums like he forgot his ritalin). With that said; most girls probably prefer RoR. The guys, if listening to Journey, has to go for tracks like Wheel in the Sky. No way any guy would rather listen to Still She Cries or whatever.

I get what Perry tried to do with RoR though. Combining Motown with AOR, but it came off as cheesy and kinda gay.

parfait wrote:

steveo777 wrote:ROR

1986....we had a nice family get away home for the weekends on a pristine lake. Dad (me) had a Malibu Skier boat. We'd go out skiing for the day and listen to ROR while in the boat.


To this day they get really happy when the hear the intros to BGTY, Suzanne, IBAWY, etc.

Journey would be rightly placed to start catering to and playing some of these songs for the people who are now 25 - 30 something. Guaranteed, the place will go nuts and these songs will be appreciated. I don't understand why they don't play them much....I really don't. If they are really wanting to attract the younger fan base, nobody cares about pre-ROR Journey that much, in this age group. I've played the Houston DVD, the Greatest Hits DVD, The 2001, 2008, as well as live in Manila. The kids don't give a shit about most of it, except the ROR hits and a few off Revelation. The only two songs my daughter cares about, pre ROR are Open Arms and Send Her My Love.

What ruined Journey's sound were AOR and Friga (and now to a greater extent Deen. The fucker got absolutely no feel at all and hammers on the drums like he forgot his ritalin). With that said; most girls probably prefer RoR. The guys, if listening to Journey, has to go for tracks like Wheel in the Sky. No way any guy would rather listen to Still She Cries or whatever.

I get what Perry tried to do with RoR though. Combining Motown with AOR, but it came off as cheesy and kinda gay.

lol, I don't agree w/everything here, but this is some good stuff ...Deen ...you're right about him!!

Michigan Girl wrote:

steveo777 wrote:ROR

1986....we had a nice family get away home for the weekends on a pristine lake. Dad (me) had a Malibu Skier boat. We'd go out skiing for the day and listen to ROR while in the boat.


To this day they get really happy when the hear the intros to BGTY, Suzanne, IBAWY, etc.

Journey would be rightly placed to start catering to and playing some of these songs for the people who are now 25 - 30 something. Guaranteed, the place will go nuts and these songs will be appreciated. I don't understand why they don't play them much....I really don't. If they are really wanting to attract the younger fan base, nobody cares about pre-ROR Journey that much, in this age group. I've played the Houston DVD, the Greatest Hits DVD, The 2001, 2008, as well as live in Manila. The kids don't give a shit about most of it, except the ROR hits and a few off Revelation. The only two songs my daughter cares about, pre ROR are Open Arms and Send Her My Love.

Where do you come up w/your demographic information?!?! Your 25-30 yr. old children may not care about pre ROR, but
many do!! Exactly how many folks were included in this survey?!?! ROR is great, though, I agree!!

I fit that age group and I honestly prefer everything before ROR. Be Good To Yourself and I'll Be Alright Without You are the only songs off ROR that I care for, not a big fan of the rest of it

RedWingFan wrote:The guys in Leppard were how old in '86? Must have ranged from early 20's to mid-20's? How old were the Journey boys?
I don't blame Perry for wanting to play more mature music when he's pushing 40. What did you want them to record another Any Way You Want It, the way Neil's band recorded another Be Good To Yourself, with the ripoff leadtrack on Revelations? Never Walk Away it was called. Wow, how revolutionary!

LOL yep, sounds nothing like JSS's 2004 Believe in Me either ~ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOAW6Q75FNw

Um, hello?? Never Walk Away ~ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TLurt26ne4

My kids (20, 17 & 11) love the pre-ROR stuff, pre-JC stuff and the Augeri era stuff. Probably becasue they saw Journey with Augeri and have listened to the pre-ROR with me since they were born. Just like us, they tend to like what they can associate experiences with.

They haven't heard ROR because I never play it. They probably would like it had I.

Point? Hell I don't know. In 14th hour of work today, tired and needing a diversion (and cocktail).

Deb wrote:

RedWingFan wrote:The guys in Leppard were how old in '86? Must have ranged from early 20's to mid-20's? How old were the Journey boys?
I don't blame Perry for wanting to play more mature music when he's pushing 40. What did you want them to record another Any Way You Want It, the way Neil's band recorded another Be Good To Yourself, with the ripoff leadtrack on Revelations? Never Walk Away it was called. Wow, how revolutionary!

LOL yep, sounds nothing like JSS's 2004 Believe in Me either ~ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOAW6Q75FNw

Um, hello?? Never Walk Away ~ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TLurt26ne4

I didn't hear any complaints with Message Of Love being a cover of Separate Ways, so I don't want to hear any now. And if it was ok for Soto to sing on that song without protest, it must also be ok for Pineda. Besides, Neal probably wanted to hear what it sounded like with a soaring tenor, rather than a bari/monotone voice.

Saint John wrote:

Deb wrote:

RedWingFan wrote:The guys in Leppard were how old in '86? Must have ranged from early 20's to mid-20's? How old were the Journey boys?
I don't blame Perry for wanting to play more mature music when he's pushing 40. What did you want them to record another Any Way You Want It, the way Neil's band recorded another Be Good To Yourself, with the ripoff leadtrack on Revelations? Never Walk Away it was called. Wow, how revolutionary!

LOL yep, sounds nothing like JSS's 2004 Believe in Me either ~ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOAW6Q75FNw

Um, hello?? Never Walk Away ~ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TLurt26ne4

I didn't hear any complaints with Message Of Love being a cover of Separate Ways, so I don't want to hear any now. And if it was ok for Soto to sing on that song without protest, it must also be ok for Pineda. Besides, Neal probably wanted to hear what it sounded like with a soaring tenor, rather than a bari/monotone voice.

Ok, dad.

Deb wrote:

Saint John wrote:

Deb wrote:

RedWingFan wrote:The guys in Leppard were how old in '86? Must have ranged from early 20's to mid-20's? How old were the Journey boys?
I don't blame Perry for wanting to play more mature music when he's pushing 40. What did you want them to record another Any Way You Want It, the way Neil's band recorded another Be Good To Yourself, with the ripoff leadtrack on Revelations? Never Walk Away it was called. Wow, how revolutionary!

LOL yep, sounds nothing like JSS's 2004 Believe in Me either ~ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOAW6Q75FNw

Um, hello?? Never Walk Away ~ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TLurt26ne4

I didn't hear any complaints with Message Of Love being a cover of Separate Ways, so I don't want to hear any now. And if it was ok for Soto to sing on that song without protest, it must also be ok for Pineda. Besides, Neal probably wanted to hear what it sounded like with a soaring tenor, rather than a bari/monotone voice.

Ok, dad.

parfait wrote:What ruined Journey's sound were AOR and Friga (and now to a greater extent Deen. The fucker got absolutely no feel at all and hammers on the drums like he forgot his ritalin). With that said; most girls probably prefer RoR. The guys, if listening to Journey, has to go for tracks like Wheel in the Sky. No way any guy would rather listen to Still She Cries or whatever.

I get what Perry tried to do with RoR though. Combining Motown with AOR, but it came off as cheesy and kinda gay.

Couldn't disagree more. The guy's got all kinds of feel...... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FVRSEAtk5Y

Deb wrote:

parfait wrote:What ruined Journey's sound were AOR and Friga (and now to a greater extent Deen. The fucker got absolutely no feel at all and hammers on the drums like he forgot his ritalin). With that said; most girls probably prefer RoR. The guys, if listening to Journey, has to go for tracks like Wheel in the Sky. No way any guy would rather listen to Still She Cries or whatever.

I get what Perry tried to do with RoR though. Combining Motown with AOR, but it came off as cheesy and kinda gay.

Couldn't disagree more.

I used to feel the same as Parfait, but Deen has improved a lot over the last decade. I had an excellent conversation with him in 2008 (until Deano came along and started bombing him with Soto questions ). I explained to him, very candidly, that I was never really all that impressed with his drumming, but that something had changed in 2008. *I* thought he may have been using different drums. His sound had more feel, more finesse and that he was just flat out drumming better. He told me that I made his day, and went on to say that for the first time in a very long time, he was drumming clean and sober. He got very emotional when he said that. I told him the difference was easily noticeable and to keep up the good work.

I do still hear him revert to his metal drumming at times, but he has continued to make progress. It's an unenviable position to be in because Smitty is probably the greatest AOR drummer of all-time, and one of the best ever period. I'm hoping that Deen was able to make the sessions with Neal and Smitty for Neal's upcoming album, and really take some notes from the very best.

hmm, that's interesting because I didn't use to feel that way!!
I think I was so enamoured by the MF vox while drumming,
that I paid very little attention to the beat of the drum ...after
I started paying better attention, I became somewhat disenchanted.
Glad to hear that's changing ...it must be hit and miss, though!!

Michigan Girl wrote:it must be hit and miss, though!!

That's probably a fair and accurate statement. I think that on the ballads, like the one Deb posted, he is able to feel the songs a lot better, but he tends to revert back a lot more on the faster paced songs.

Steve Smith is one of the absolute best. With that said, I have never had a problem with Deen's drumming. The guy is a rock drummer and Journey is supposed to be a "Rock" band. I think he is an excellent drummer and his resume is pretty impressive to say the least.

Now I am not a drummer, but as a music fan, I have not found much fault with Deens playing. Love his energy behind the set too. Just don't compare him to a Smitty or a Peart

SF-Dano wrote:Steve Smith is one of the absolute best. With that said, I have never had a problem with Deen's drumming. The guy is a rock drummer and Journey is supposed to be a "Rock" band. I think he is an excellent drummer and his resume is pretty impressive to say the least.

Now I am not a drummer, but as a music fan, I have not found much fault with Deens playing. Love his energy behind the set too. Just don't compare him to a Smitty or a Peart

All fair and valid points/arguments, but when you're covering someone else's drumming you have an obligation to play it the way it's supposed to be played. And if that involves finesse and not beating the shit out of the drums, then that's what you should do. A few of us just felt/feel that he wasn't always doing that. I think he does a much better job now than he did just a handful of years ago.

SF-Dano wrote:Steve Smith is one of the absolute best. With that said, I have never had a problem with Deen's drumming. The guy is a rock drummer and Journey is supposed to be a "Rock" band. I think he is an excellent drummer and his resume is pretty impressive to say the least.

Now I am not a drummer, but as a music fan, I have not found much fault with Deens playing. Love his energy behind the set too. Just don't compare him to a Smitty or a Peart

Bingo! I saw him on the Arrival show, just a smiling away behind the kit, on I think it was Separate Ways, just a lovin' what he does. And just loved his energy, and actually went and bought the post-Perry dvd mainly cuz of DC (ok also for La Raza Del Sol & Higher Place) and that raspy, soulful voice on some of the ballads doesn't hurt any IMO either.

Saint John wrote:

SF-Dano wrote:Steve Smith is one of the absolute best. With that said, I have never had a problem with Deen's drumming. The guy is a rock drummer and Journey is supposed to be a "Rock" band. I think he is an excellent drummer and his resume is pretty impressive to say the least.

Now I am not a drummer, but as a music fan, I have not found much fault with Deens playing. Love his energy behind the set too. Just don't compare him to a Smitty or a Peart

All fair and valid points/arguments, but when you're covering someone else's drumming you have an obligation to play it the way it's supposed to be played. And if that involves finesse and not beating the shit out of the drums, then that's what you should do. A few of us just felt/feel that he wasn't always doing that. I think he does a much better job now than he did just a handful of years ago.

Typically, I would agree with you, however, my other favorite rock band, Toto, specifically sought a drummer (Simon Phillips) who did not play like their original drummer (Jeff Porcaro). (The band's thinking was that no one could ever play like Jeff, so why try to find a clone) This took a long time for me to get used to, but because both are great drummers (arguably both in the top 10 of all time) in their own right, I found different attributes that I liked about each player. (i.e. Simon can't shuffle like Jeff, but is an amazing soloist and comes up with some great parts for the newer material he plays on)

As for Deen, I think he's clearly a metal drummer turned rock drummer. Steve Smith was a jazz drummer turned rock drummer. You can see the distinction of their influences...But what a job to fill for Deen, I mean, nobody plays like Steve Smith, except Steve Smith. (Makes you think what the ____ was Perry thinking when he fired him) Deen is passable for a majority of the stuff, but I'm probably not interested in a drum solo from him (Steve Smith's were nothing short of brilliant). Deen is an amazing singer yes, and some of his playing is pretty original and great in it's own right (the end of Place in your Heart, or We Will Meet Again, for example), but I mean, even Deen admits he'll never be Steve Smith on the drums. And you can weigh in on importance of instrument, vocal talent, etc etc etc - for my money, Steve Smith drove the heart of Journey during it's peak years and that's something that's been missing for me. Looking forward to the new Schon / Smith project. It's overdue

If you guys only knew what kind of music Castronovo listens to, your heads would blow off. That guy doesn't just listen to metal. he listens to high speed thrash death rock/metal...I mean shit that only Scott Peterson could love.

Rockindeano wrote:If you guys only knew what kind of music Castronovo listens to, your heads would blow off. That guy doesn't just listen to metal. he listens to high speed thrash death rock/metal...I mean shit that only Scott Peterson could love.

Rockindeano wrote:If you guys only knew what kind of music Castronovo listens to, your heads would blow off. That guy doesn't just listen to metal. he listens to high speed thrash death rock/metal...I mean shit that only Scott Peterson could love.

Makes you wonder what his solo album will sound like...

That's a nice way of putting it, Brandon ...I like all that SS driving Journey because he did and
I'm sure I'll always be angry at SP for firing him because really WTF was he thinking talk ...I agree!!

I like run on sentences, too ...

brandonpfn wrote:

Rockindeano wrote:If you guys only knew what kind of music Castronovo listens to, your heads would blow off. That guy doesn't just listen to metal. he listens to high speed thrash death rock/metal...I mean shit that only Scott Peterson could love.

Makes you wonder what his solo album will sound like...

depends on what label he would get signed to. If it is Frontiers Records, expect melodic rock. If it's a label that specializes in metal/thrash, expect much heavier.