MR

Here it is -- a place to go on record with your predictions for Eclipse. Leave the debates to the other threads... just log your opinions here for the record. All opinions are welcome and will be respected, including all the stupid and foolish ones.



1. On a scale of 1 to 10, how much do you think you'll personally like (or hate) ECLIPSE?

2. How do you think the album will be received by hardcore Journey fans?

3. How do you think the album will fare with casual fans?


A few weeks after the album comes out, I'll personally come back and select those predictions that ended up being the dumbest and the wrongest, and will award those people with a custom, hand-crafted avatar of their mug sporting either a dunce cap or a fool's hat (their choice), which will be showcased along with their opinion in my signature line for a month.


Anyway, I'll go on record now...

1. 10 -- I'm feelin' it, and there isn't a weak track among the 5. Some took a little longer to grow on me, but I love them all now.

2. Hopefully very well. Assuming they are current fans who will give any Journey album a fair shot on its own merits, I think it will do quite well. Neal and AP are going to OWN!

3. Who cares? They probably listen to pop radio most of the time, so if this doesn't tickle their ears in all the right places, I'm not too terribly concerned.

Rip Rokken wrote:Here it is -- a place to go on record with your predictions for Eclipse. Leave the debates to the other threads... just log your opinions here for the record. All opinions are welcome and will be respected, including all the stupid and foolish ones.

How about the blatantly biased and bought off ones?

Ok, I'll play:

I'll give a 2. I kinda like Chain of Love, that's it. I like 20% of 50% of the final album. Not looking good.

Define hardcore. If you mean rabid, sycophant-type fanboys/gals....probably pretty well. I'm on record saying that fans sometimes settle for subpar efforts - if it means their band can still be around...kinda like that feeling of puppy love whe you are a teenager. Fact is, you were more in love with the idea of being 'in love', than actually in love...it was the newness that you felt. That newness was an international singer who can somewhat channel SP. The novelty has worn off. Sorry.

As far as casual fans? Think multiple bathroom breaks. this release will be the last nail in Journey's coffin.

RedWingFan wrote:

Rip Rokken wrote:Here it is -- a place to go on record with your predictions for Eclipse. Leave the debates to the other threads... just log your opinions here for the record. All opinions are welcome and will be respected, including all the stupid and foolish ones.

How about the blatantly biased and bought off ones?

Seems only fair!!


I have not listened and will not listen until I hear the studio version
or live w/my own ears ...I can't take you people!!

Got to wait to hear the studio version or live version "live" to judge. I miss melodic Schon though. His shredding sounds all the same and his melodic play is one of a kind.

There will be a 60-40 split in favor by diehards.

Poor reception by casual fans.

RedWingFan wrote:

Rip Rokken wrote:Here it is -- a place to go on record with your predictions for Eclipse. Leave the debates to the other threads... just log your opinions here for the record. All opinions are welcome and will be respected, including all the stupid and foolish ones.

How about the blatantly biased and bought off ones?

Oh my gosh.... you didn't just do that! I believe that's the first time in MR history that anyone's ever used my own smiley against me. How can I disagree with that face?



Yes, you nailed me... You should have seen the look on the bank teller's face when I handed her that fat check and she asked, "How do you know JOURNEY?!?"

Rip Rokken wrote:Yes, you nailed me... You should have seen the look on the bank teller's face when I handed her that fat check and she asked, "How do you know JOURNEY?!?"

You mean she couldn't tell with Arnel riding on your shoulders?

S2M wrote:Ok, I'll play:

I'll give a 2. I kinda like Chain of Love, that's it. I like 20% of 50% of the final album. Not looking good.

Define hardcore. If you mean rabid, sycophant-type fanboys/gals....probably pretty well. I'm on record saying that fans sometimes settle for subpar efforts - if it means their band can still be around...kinda like that feeling of puppy love whe you are a teenager. Fact is, you were more in love with the idea of being 'in love', than actually in love...it was the newness that you felt. That newness was an international singer who can somewhat channel SP. The novelty has worn off. Sorry.

As far as casual fans? Think multiple bathroom breaks. this release will be the last nail in Journey's coffin.

Hey, like I said... all opinions are welcome and respected here. What's your hat size, btw?

RedWingFan wrote:

Rip Rokken wrote:Yes, you nailed me... You should have seen the look on the bank teller's face when I handed her that fat check and she asked, "How do you know JOURNEY?!?"

You mean she couldn't tell with Arnel riding on your shoulders?

She thought he was Steve Perry!

1) 8.5/10


2&3) If I had to take a guess, I'd say that Journey is primarily concerned in attempting to establish a new fan base outside of the U.S. For many here in the U.S., Journey will always represent the soundtrack we grew up with up, regardless of whether the singer today is Perry, Pineda or the Pope. Because of that, it's virtually impossible to change what you're known for and reinvent yourselves. They're known primarily as balladeers with some catchy sing-along songs, and that'll never change ... here. And that's why I think they're trying to bust into new markets by traveling the world.

That said, I think the album will sell incredibly well here and shouldn't have any problem moving 5-7 hundred thousand units, and probably more. Internationally, I expect the new direction to make a much larger impact than Revelation did, and that sold pretty well.

I think I'll like it 5.5/10. The last two albums did nothing for me save for a few tracks

I think the album will be viewed as a great album by hardcore fans because the hardcore fans will love anything that Journey puts out. I think the realistic Journey fans will be torn by the album because of the direction Schon wanted the album to go (I haven't heard any of the new tracks yet and won't until it comes out)

I think the album will go relatively unnoticed by the casual fans much in the same vein as the last Foreigner album was really passed over. My reason is because this album doesn't have anything to really attract the casual fan that hasn't been done before. They released the re-recorded hits with Wal Mart last time, they released the live DVD with the album last time and another later on. They ran with the Arnel sob story on Opera. It's put up or shut up time for the band and unless they have a quality lead single the album will flounder like the other albums did with Augeri.

jestor92 wrote:I think I'll like it 5.5/10. The last two albums did nothing for me save for a few tracks

I think the album will be viewed as a great album by hardcore fans because the hardcore fans will love anything that Journey puts out. I think the realistic Journey fans will be torn by the album because of the direction Schon wanted the album to go (I haven't heard any of the new tracks yet and won't until it comes out)

I think the album will go relatively unnoticed by the casual fans much in the same vein as the last Foreigner album was really passed over. My reason is because this album doesn't have anything to really attract the casual fan that hasn't been done before. They released the re-recorded hits with Wal Mart last time, they released the live DVD with the album last time and another later on. They ran with the Arnel sob story on Opera. It's put up or shut up time for the band and unless they have a quality lead single the album will flounder like the other albums did with Augeri.

This time is different! Seriously, this album will have some balls, I know it and I am convinced that this album will be highly regarded, even by the most staunch critics, once they get their ears around it. This is not your father's Journey!

hoping the studio versions are better,
glad to see journey rocking but the songs do not sound anything like journey live.

Michigan Girl wrote:I have not listened and will not listen until I hear the studio version
or live w/my own ears ...I can't take you people!!

Give them a listen, MG! Some of the newer videos have really good audio...

Rip Rokken wrote:

Michigan Girl wrote:I have not listened and will not listen until I hear the studio version
or live w/my own ears ...I can't take you people!!

Give them a listen, MG! Some of the newer videos have really good audio...

There's only two kinds of people......those who SAY they haven't listened and those who have played them over and over.

They have not impressed me since "Arrival" and even then, I was not that impressed. They should replace Schon with the Classic-Journey-type Schon, when there was quality instead of quantity. I've grown to dislike his running off at the guitar. His unique sound of complimenting a singer is a thing of the past, imo.

The album might make a wave if Arnel would sing in his native language instead of English as I can't shake the feeling that he does not know what he is singing about, half the time.

You asked and this is just my opinion!

whirlwind wrote:They have not impressed me since "Arrival" and even then, I was not that impressed. They should replace Schon with the Classic-Journey-type Schon, when there was quality instead of quantity. I've grown to dislike his running off at the guitar. His unique sound of complimenting a singer is a thing of the past, imo.

The album might make a wave if Arnel would sing in his native language instead of English as I can't shake the feeling that he does not know what he is singing about, half the time.

You asked and this is just my opinion!

Educate yourself. Most Filipinos of Arnel's age speak and UNDERSTAND fluent English, unless they are from a remote province. Arnel is city people. So, your
statement was one of pure ignorance. Replace Schon? You're nuttier than a fruitcake. Schon is doing just fine and people like his guitar riffs and solos, which you call
"running off at the guitar".

1. 10. I've been waiting for them to do an album like this for a long time!!

2. Very well. I think a lot a hardcore fans have the same feelings that I state above.

3. Casual fans won't care for it. A lot of casual fans will buy it though, thinking it will sound like Revelation. I agree with Rip, they're probably all pop radio fans who don't have the attention span to handle anything longer than 3-4 minutes. Based on what I've listened too on the YouTube videos, the lyrics seem to be deeper than before and require a little more thought on the part of the listener and we all know that casual pop music fans prefer the simple lyrics that a 5 year old could comprehend.

steveo777 wrote:

Rip Rokken wrote:

Michigan Girl wrote:I have not listened and will not listen until I hear the studio version
or live w/my own ears ...I can't take you people!!

Give them a listen, MG! Some of the newer videos have really good audio...

There's only two kinds of people......those who SAY they haven't listened and those who have played them over and over.

Steve Perry would be in the first group. I remember him saying that he hadn't heard any of Arrival after it came out, but then just a week ago I was watching the Journey Hollywood Walk of Fame ceremony and noticed they were alternating between playing classic hits and Arrival tracks. Proof that he's at least heard them there.

steveo777 wrote:

whirlwind wrote:They have not impressed me since "Arrival" and even then, I was not that impressed. They should replace Schon with the Classic-Journey-type Schon, when there was quality instead of quantity. I've grown to dislike his running off at the guitar. His unique sound of complimenting a singer is a thing of the past, imo.

The album might make a wave if Arnel would sing in his native language instead of English as I can't shake the feeling that he does not know what he is singing about, half the time.

You asked and this is just my opinion!

Educate yourself. Most Filipinos of Arnel's age speak and UNDERSTAND fluent English, unless they are from a remote province. Arnel is city people. So, your
statement was one of pure ignorance. Replace Schon? You're nuttier than a fruitcake. Schon is doing just fine and people like his guitar riffs and solos, which you call
"running off at the guitar".

That was one thing that totally surprised me about Manila -- everyone I met (mostly in the cities) spoke pretty fluent English, and only a few were less than fluent but could still communicate well enough. And everything was written in English, often primarily, with Tagalog subtext. I had 0% problems getting around anywhere. There were also several places I was in, especially shopping malls or restaurants, that if I didn't know otherwise I would have thought I was in America. My other friends loved it so much that out of the 4 of us that went, 2 have been back a couple of times since. I'm planning to return next year.

I'm afraid I won't have it so easy in Chile in a few weeks, and I'm way behind on learning Spanish. It will be an adventure though.

ebake02 wrote:1. 10. I've been waiting for them to do an album like this for a long time!!

2. Very well. I think a lot a hardcore fans have the same feelings that I state above.

3. Casual fans won't care for it. A lot of casual fans will buy it though, thinking it will sound like Revelation. I agree with Rip, they're probably all pop radio fans who don't have the attention span to handle anything longer than 3-4 minutes. Based on what I've listened too on the YouTube videos, the lyrics seem to be deeper than before and require a little more thought on the part of the listener and we all know that casual pop music fans prefer the simple lyrics that a 5 year old could comprehend.

Sounds like you and I feel pretty much the same way about pop music listeners, lol. The love of music runs thru my veins... I have to have it for my emotional well-being, balance, etc. Otherwise, I'd be toast.

Rip Rokken wrote:

steveo777 wrote:

whirlwind wrote:They have not impressed me since "Arrival" and even then, I was not that impressed. They should replace Schon with the Classic-Journey-type Schon, when there was quality instead of quantity. I've grown to dislike his running off at the guitar. His unique sound of complimenting a singer is a thing of the past, imo.

The album might make a wave if Arnel would sing in his native language instead of English as I can't shake the feeling that he does not know what he is singing about, half the time.

You asked and this is just my opinion!

Educate yourself. Most Filipinos of Arnel's age speak and UNDERSTAND fluent English, unless they are from a remote province. Arnel is city people. So, your
statement was one of pure ignorance. Replace Schon? You're nuttier than a fruitcake. Schon is doing just fine and people like his guitar riffs and solos, which you call
"running off at the guitar".

That was one thing that totally surprised me about Manila -- everyone I met (mostly in the cities) spoke pretty fluent English, and only a few were less than fluent but could still communicate well enough. And everything was written in English, often primarily, with Tagalog subtext. I had 0% problems getting around anywhere. There were also several places I was in, especially shopping malls or restaurants, that if I didn't know otherwise I would have thought I was in America. My other friends loved it so much that out of the 4 of us that went, 2 have been back a couple of times since. I'm planning to return next year.

I'm afraid I won't have it so easy in Chile in a few weeks, and I'm way behind on learning Spanish. It will be an adventure though.

I wish I was going. I saw where Seal, who I have never seen in concert and always wanted to ( a great songwriter), is playing in the same venue a week apart form Journey in Santiago. What a great place to see both and vacation.

being a huge neal fan i think i will like it, my fear is it will not be hooky enough for most, like red 13, but im glad neal gets his way and rocks, just hope the songs are good also

think it will do ok, but most wont care for the direction.

Rip Rokken wrote:

ebake02 wrote:1. 10. I've been waiting for them to do an album like this for a long time!!

2. Very well. I think a lot a hardcore fans have the same feelings that I state above.

3. Casual fans won't care for it. A lot of casual fans will buy it though, thinking it will sound like Revelation. I agree with Rip, they're probably all pop radio fans who don't have the attention span to handle anything longer than 3-4 minutes. Based on what I've listened too on the YouTube videos, the lyrics seem to be deeper than before and require a little more thought on the part of the listener and we all know that casual pop music fans prefer the simple lyrics that a 5 year old could comprehend.

The love of music runs thru my veins... I have to have it for my emotional well-being, balance, etc. Otherwise, I'd be toast.

Music is indeed a wonderful thing!

1) 9/10 - I love what I hear so far. The 5 songs I have heard sound like deeper classic Journey cuts, and yes they have hooks and keys! I'll bet there will even be 1 song on the CD that is a semi- rocker ballad, we have yet to hear 7 songs.

2) I think most the hardcore fans will love this CD, it sounds to me like the one a good number of the hardcore fans were clamoring for with JSS, although some of these same fans are not happy now.. go figure.

3) Casual fans may not like it much... the band is not concerned with the casual fan this time around and neither am I, who cares.

Escape Artist wrote:1) 9/10 - I love what I hear so far. The 5 songs I have heard sound like deeper classic Journey cuts, and yes they have hooks and keys! I'll bet there will even be 1 song on the CD that is a semi- rocker ballad, we have yet to hear 7 songs.

2) I think most the hardcore fans will love this CD, it sounds to me like the one a good number of the hardcore fans were clamoring for with JSS, although some of these same fans are not happy now.. go figure.
3) Casual fans may not like it much... the band is not concerned with the casual fan this time around and neither am I, who cares.

The reason is that there was nothing wrong with JSS. Neal said he didn't like the Journey sound/DIRECTION with him. He wanted to still embrace that legacy sound....so he got the poor man's doppelganger, and cut Revelation.....NOW all of a sudden he wants to go harder edge - had that with JSS. I know exactly how it went down. Neal wanted to cut a legacy album with the new singer, and once the fans were hooked on Arnel and his sob story - neal knew they would already be invested in Arnel and his Philipino entourage - thus ensuring the embrace of the new, harder album.

Jeff got the last laugh anyway, because the W.E.T. album is better than both J-Boyz albums combined....

Escape Artist wrote:3) the band is not concerned with the casual fan this time around and neither am I, who cares.

Amen!!!

S2M, the "direction" that Neal was referring to had a little bit to do with voice and a lot to do with antics/personality. It was simply time to shut the circus down and let him go. And they did. Journey is far better off now and Soto is ... doing well, too.

Saint John wrote:S2M, the "direction" that Neal was referring to had a little bit to do with voice and a lot to do with antics/personality. It was simply time to shut the circus down and let him go. And they did. Journey is far better off now and Soto is ... doing well, too.

Sorry, Dan....not buying it. If that was the case, Eclipse would have been the first record recorded. Besides, Jeremey was basically 'in the fold' when Jeff got the axe, so voice/style was the concern. Neal wanted legacy. He put out a legacy release to pad the fanbase, now wants to cut a harder album. One in which he abandons all melody for his new found inner Vinnie Vincent....you are right about one thing though - Jeff is better off.

S2M wrote:

Saint John wrote:S2M, the "direction" that Neal was referring to had a little bit to do with voice and a lot to do with antics/personality. It was simply time to shut the circus down and let him go. And they did. Journey is far better off now and Soto is ... doing well, too.

Sorry, Dan....not buying it. If that was the case, Eclipse would have been the first record recorded. Besides, Jeremey was basically 'in the fold' when Jeff got the axe, so voice/style was the concern. Neal wanted legacy. He put out a legacy release to pad the fanbase, now wants to cut a harder album. One in which he abandons all melody for his new found inner Vinnie Vincent....you are right about one thing though - Jeff is better off.

I'm glad we got the W.E.T. album out of all that mess, but the bolded part just makes me laugh... and probably makes Jeff cry