MR

....what are the band's hardest rockers ever?

Castles Burning, to me really has a nasty beginning where the music almost snarls at you. Edge Of The Blade is another where you feel a bit of a mean streak coming from Journey. What songs do you think really showcase Journey as a bonafide Hard Rock band?

Don wrote:....what are the band's hardest rockers ever?

Castles Burning, to me really has a nasty beginning where the music almost snarls at you. Edge Of The Blade is another where you feel a bit of a mean streak coming from Journey. What songs do you think really showcase Journey as a bonafide Hard Rock band?

Butterfly(She Pukes).....

Don wrote:What songs do you think really showcase Journey as a bonafide Hard Rock band?

None. Journey simply is just not that hardcore. Never has been. That said, the band has never rocked harder than on "One More", "The Time", and now finally on Eclipse.
In addition to the songs you mentioned, I would also give honorable mentions to "out of Harm's Way" and "I Can See it in Your Eyes."

Excellent topic.

Dead Or Alive
Edge Of The Blade
Edge Of The Moment
Out Of Harms Way
State Of Grace
One More


Just off the top of my head....

Don wrote:....what are the band's hardest rockers ever?

Castles Burning, to me really has a nasty beginning where the music almost snarls at you. Edge Of The Blade is another where you feel a bit of a mean streak coming from Journey. What songs do you think really showcase Journey as a bonafide Hard Rock band?

Sorry no. I don't see Journey as a hard rock band, more soft rock. But maybe songs like Dead or Alive, Edge of The Blade and yeah Castles Burning. Mr Big is a hard rock band.

Deb wrote:

Don wrote:....what are the band's hardest rockers ever?

Castles Burning, to me really has a nasty beginning where the music almost snarls at you. Edge Of The Blade is another where you feel a bit of a mean streak coming from Journey. What songs do you think really showcase Journey as a bonafide Hard Rock band?

Sorry no. I don't see Journey as a hard rock band, more soft rock. But maybe songs like Dead or Alive, Edge of The Blade and yeah Castles Burning. Mr Big is a hard rock band.

I agree, until Eclipse. It's not a quintessential hard rock album, but it has more hard rock on it than they have released on any other. And I am LOVING this album.

I guess I'm the only one that likes Human Feel as well as I do, but that is one very cool song. The vocals are a bit off, mistimed or slow, mismatched, not sure, in the beginning, but it really takes off after that. Love the guitar and.... shit, I love everything about it.

"Separate Ways" of course.

If we're going on the power of instruments alone,

'Dead Or Alive'
'Lay It Down'
'Keep On Runnin''
'Separate Ways'
'Chain Reaction'
'Edge of the Blade'
'Backtalk'
'Rubicon'
'Message of Love'
'One More'
'Castles Burnin''
'Can't Tame the Lion'
'I Can See It In Your Eyes'
'Higher Place'
'World Gone Wild'
'Live And Breathe'
'Nothin' Comes Close'
'Out of Harm's Way'
'Wildest Dream'
'Where Did I Lose Your Love'
'The Time'
'State of Grace'
'Resonate'
'Edge of the Moment'
'Chain of Love'

The problem is that the vocals, background vocals, and (occasionally) the use of keyboards tend to conflict with the guitar, drums, and bass.

While TBF is generally described as a snoozefest, it's heartening to see that when the guys did open up on it, they went full bore with songs like One More, Can't Tame The Lion and Castles Burning. If you throw Message Of Love in there, that's actually a good counterbalance against the remaining tracks that are on the album.

Can't Tame The Lion works for me. If you want to go way back, She Makes Me Feel Alright

S2M wrote:
Butterfly(She Pukes).....

TBF is easily, for me, their finest album. It abandons cookie-cutter formula and Journey's reputation for "simple" songs. I'm not interested in senselessly eclectic or music that would be described as unnecessarily 'weird', but I do like it when a band as talented as Journey adds some complexity to their songs, be it in the lyrics, structure, or the musicianship.


As far as Journey's status as a rock band is concerned, I think much of the problem was Steve Perry's voice. Before any of you throw bricks at me, while Perry was undeniably an extraordinary singer, his Celene Dion-pitch conflicted with the heavier tendencies of the musicians. Consider 'Stone In Love', one of my favorites. My dad thinks it's the epitome of a rock song, but I think there are plenty of songs in their catalogue that are much, much harder than SIL. That's why Neal raved about Perry's voice in Frontiers: it suited the darker, heavier theme.

One More is one of my favorites!

Deb wrote:

Don wrote:....what are the band's hardest rockers ever?

Castles Burning, to me really has a nasty beginning where the music almost snarls at you. Edge Of The Blade is another where you feel a bit of a mean streak coming from Journey. What songs do you think really showcase Journey as a bonafide Hard Rock band?

Sorry no. I don't see Journey as a hard rock band, more soft rock. But maybe songs like Dead or Alive, Edge of The Blade and yeah Castles Burning. Mr Big is a hard rock band.

Not me, when I think of soft rock I think of artists like Chicago, Christopher Cross, America, James Taylor and Michael Bolton, not journey.

While it's true that Eclipse is loadedd with rockers, I think Edge Of The Moment may be the only that can hang with some of the titles already mentioned in this thread. I grabbed my son's high end Pioneer headphones he uses for mixing and am absolutely loving this song. Play this immediately after Separate Ways and you'll be in hog heaven, it's like two peas in a pod.

Don wrote:I think Edge Of The Moment may be the only that can hang with some of the titles already mentioned in this thread.

I disagree.
Listen to the rhythm section on 'Resonate', how nasty that guitar is. When my dad told me SIL was Journey's greatest rocker, I had this reaction =
There are very few songs in Journey's catalogue that can truly hang with 'Chain of Love', 'Resonate', and 'Edge of the Moment' in terms of heavy studio cuts in Journey's catalogue.

The first three albums. Plus the following in order starting from Infinity,

1. La Do Da
2. Wheel In The Sky
3. Can Do
4. Lov'n You Is Easy
5. Lady Luck
6. Any Way You Want It
7. Where Were You
8. Line Of Fire
9. Stone In Love
10. Keep On Runnin'
11. ESCAPE
12. Lay It Down
13. Dead Or Alive
14. Separate Ways
15. Chain Reaction
16. Edge Of The Blade
17. Back Talk
18. Rubicon
19. Raised On Radio (I know. I know. But that's the only possibility from ROR)
20. Message Of Love
21. One More
22. Can't Tame The Lion
23. Higher Place
24. World Gone Wild
25. I Got A Reason
26. State Of Grace
27. The Time
28. Faith In The Heartland
29. Out Of Harm's Way
30. Change For The Better
31. Wildest Dream
32. City Of Hope
33. Edge Of The Moment
34. Chain Of Love
35. Resonate
36. Human Feel (Not bad for a little rock and roll band from San Francisco)

" I'm Gonna Leave You "

Gideon wrote:

Don wrote:I think Edge Of The Moment may be the only that can hang with some of the titles already mentioned in this thread.

I disagree.
Listen to the rhythm section on 'Resonate', how nasty that guitar is. When my dad told me SIL was Journey's greatest rocker, I had this reaction =
There are very few songs in Journey's catalogue that can truly hang with 'Chain of Love', 'Resonate', and 'Edge of the Moment' in terms of heavy studio cuts in Journey's catalogue.

I'm not able to argue against this logically, I guess it's personal taste.
On a different note, all three cuts you mentioned definitely have a lot mumbo jumbo going on that I don't remember from the youtubes. Granted that audio was coming through a camera mic but I still think there is a lot going on here that did not make it into the live performances. Perhaps more reason to kill those youtube vids when they did.

Don wrote:I'm not able to argue against this logically, I guess it's personal taste.

Preference is preference, man. That those three tracks are heavier than vast majority of Journey 'rockers' doesn't mean they're better.

Gideon wrote:

Don wrote:I'm not able to argue against this logically, I guess it's personal taste.

Preference is preference, man. That those three tracks are heavier than vast majority of Journey 'rockers' doesn't mean they're better.

Are they as Neal described them, edgier that what Journey has done before. I think the theme they are trying to promote with this album doesn't lend itself to that. Maybe I'm equating edgieness with harder rocking, who knows? With EOTB and CB, you know the subject matter isn't pretty and your mindset is different when listening. With Eclipse, we know the sun is coming out eventually and every song seems to want to run towards it.

Am I making any fucking sense?

Don wrote:Am I making any fucking sense?

You are. And, to be honest, I consider Eclipse as "conceptual" as Trial By Fire. There are a few somewhat common patterns in a few songs throughout the album, like Tantra and all that jazz, but there isn't a common theme in each song as I see it. I think what Neal really meant is that it would be 'conceptually unique' compared to most of their stuff.

Don wrote:While TBF is generally described as a snoozefest, it's heartening to see that when the guys did open up on it, they went full bore with songs like One More, Can't Tame The Lion and Castles Burning. If you throw Message Of Love in there, that's actually a good counterbalance against the remaining tracks that are on the album.

They should have left the Japan bonus track, "I Can See it In Your Eyes", on the US version. Even then, the cd is bogged down by ballads.

Gideon wrote:If we're going on the power of instruments alone,

'Dead Or Alive'
'Lay It Down'
'Keep On Runnin''
'Separate Ways'
'Chain Reaction'
'Edge of the Blade'
'Backtalk'
'Rubicon'
'Message of Love'
'One More'
'Castles Burnin''
'Can't Tame the Lion'
'I Can See It In Your Eyes'
'Higher Place'
'World Gone Wild'
'Live And Breathe'
'Nothin' Comes Close'
'Out of Harm's Way'
'Wildest Dream'
'Where Did I Lose Your Love'
'The Time'
'State of Grace'
'Resonate'
'Edge of the Moment'
'Chain of Love'

The problem is that the vocals, background vocals, and (occasionally) the use of keyboards tend to conflict with the guitar, drums, and bass.

Thanks Gids...You saved me a lot of time here..

+1

Don wrote:....what are the band's hardest rockers ever?

Castles Burning, to me really has a nasty beginning where the music almost snarls at you. Edge Of The Blade is another where you feel a bit of a mean streak coming from Journey. What songs do you think really showcase Journey as a bonafide Hard Rock band?

Songs that I've considered to be Journey's heaviest from the Perry era are....

Where Were You
Line Of Fire
Lay It Down
Dead Or Alive
Chain Reaction
Edge Of The Blade
Backtalk
One More
Castles Burning

Post-Perry Rockers....

All The Things
World Gone wild
State Of Grace
The Time
Faith In The Heartland
The Place In Your Heart
Out Of Harms Way
Better Together
Never Walk Away
Change For The Better
Wildest Dream