MR

I've been listening to Eclipse over and over for the last couple of weeks, and have already retired the album. My initial opinion was "Wow, I LOVE this". Really what I loved was hearing new Cain and Schon music. I'm hung up on the vocals, and it's not Arnel's fault. He gave it a valiant and admirable effort, but he's just no Perry.

Go back and listen to "Separate Ways", "Ask The Lonely", "Stone In Love", and pretty much any of the songs with the stacked, layered vocals. Perry had a technique to stacking those vocals effortlessly and you don't hear anything even similar to that in the post-Perry songs (minus "Remember Me"). It's the missing ingredient to this band, and you'd think the band would try to create those huge, endless layers of vocals that used to be such a big part of their amazing sound... but they don't. They layer a few vocals here and there, but it's just not the same. Hell, several times in Eclipse, the backing vocals don't even end at the same time as the lead vocal, and it sounds sloppy as hell!

Of course Perry sounds nothing like he used to anymore, but I'd take another Perry album with the band over 10 more Arnel albums. Just saying.

Dude, people who are looking for Perry in the new music have it wrong and that
creates a bias. You're not going to find vox of Perry or any cloning. That's by design.
Move on. I can't believe you, of all people are looking for it in Eclipse. Arnel gets
an opportunity to shine on his own and move out of Perry's shadow. He get's the
job done. If you want to hear Perry emulation you'll get plenty of it in the DD
over the tour. I'd rather have Arnel at 44 years old than Perry at 60 at this
point. This is about the band moving on.

Arnel does a fantastic job, IMO. There's no reason to cling to Perry. The sound on Eclipse is much more modern and relevant than the 80s nostalgia fest that was Revelation. Why keep going in a backwards direction?

And Jim, next time post this kind of shit in the proper forum. You don't see us going and posting
threads about AP in the loon forum, do ya?

Those are your opinions, and you're entitled to them. Even with giving these songs and this album room to breathe with Arnel's own vocal style, can you name one song on here that stacks up to their classics? I don't. I'm not saying there aren't brilliant parts of songs here and there, but to me, there isn't one absolutely classic song on this album, and I believe it's because of the vocals.

steveo777 wrote:And Jim, next time post this kind of shit in the proper forum. You don't see us going and posting
threads about AP in the loon forum, do ya?

You done blowing the band now Monica Lewinsky?

The rocked-out ending of "She's a Mystery" sounds like Arnel's voice has been doubled or something. I do miss the layered vocals, but not enough to detract from the overall album. Arnel sounds very Perry-ish at times throughout.

G.I.Jim wrote:Those are your opinions, and you're entitled to them. Even with giving these songs and this album room to breathe with Arnel's own vocal style, can you name one song on here that stacks up to their classics? I don't. I'm not saying there aren't brilliant parts of songs here and there, but to me, there isn't one absolutely classic song on this album, and I believe it's because of the vocals.

So Journey is supposed to release the same songs over and over again? They aren't Styx, you know. Journey went in a different direction instead of following a cookie-cutter format. I think it was a very good decision. This album will be loved in the long run.

G.I.Jim wrote:I'm not saying there aren't brilliant parts of songs here and there, but to me, there isn't one absolutely classic song on this album, and I believe it's because of the vocals.

I'd nominate "Someone" as a modern classic. "She's a Mystery" is also very strong and could have easily fit on Evolution.

Archetype wrote:

G.I.Jim wrote:Those are your opinions, and you're entitled to them. Even with giving these songs and this album room to breathe with Arnel's own vocal style, can you name one song on here that stacks up to their classics? I don't. I'm not saying there aren't brilliant parts of songs here and there, but to me, there isn't one absolutely classic song on this album, and I believe it's because of the vocals.

So Journey is supposed to release the same songs over and over again? They aren't Styx, you know. Journey went in a different direction instead of following a cookie-cutter format. I think it was a very good decision. This album will be loved in the long run.

No, not at all. I just wish they had a song on here that was strong enough on here vocal-wise to fall into the "classic" status. I don't think his voice falls into that category for me. If they wanted to sound different, and go in a new direction, then I think they should have kept Soto, and changed the name of the band. They did it for Bad English, and it worked out brilliantly! Why not do it again, if they're "trying to go in a different direction"? Journey is supposed to sound like Journey. While the band sounds great on this album, I just don't like what Arnel brings to the table. Just MY opinion. Sorry it's not the same as yours.

Why can't we just let Perry go, he's been gone for 15 years and he's not coming back. I can't stand it when people dwell on the past, Arnel is not Steve Perry and I'm glad for that.

Why can't we just let Perry go, he's been gone for 15 years and he's not coming back. I can't stand it when people dwell on the past, Arnel is not Steve Perry and I'm glad for that.

ebake02 wrote:Why can't we just let Perry go, he's been gone for 15 years and he's not coming back. I can't stand it when people dwell on the past, Arnel is not Steve Perry and I'm glad for that.

Damn, here we are spending our days on a forum built around 80's music, and you can't stand people who dwell on the past? WTF?!?!?!?!?!

G.I.Jim wrote:Of course Perry sounds nothing like he used to anymore, but I'd take another Perry album with the band over 10 more Arnel albums. Just saying.

As always, I respect your opinion Jim, but I'm unconvinced that modern!Perry could deliver what you'd expect from him. Like Eclipse itself, I really doubt that another album with Perry would live up to the hype that would inevitably surround it.

The dated practice of multi-layered, stacked vocals is easily attainable without Perry. They simply didn't want to go that route. I like the minimalist approach of the album and the sonic is exceptional.

Very valid points, GI Jim.

Some people just want Journey to keep sounding exactly like how they sounded in the 80s. I'm glad Journey is smarter than that and can evolve.

The sonic exceptional? The production sounds like a demo. No power to the drums. Sloppily recorded BG vocals. What's worse, there's a big cheese factor in several of the songs, Tantra being the prime example. JRNY was never about cheese.

You have a song like City of Hope. Plain boring. Sounds like something Cain would write for a solo album. This song proves how they've lost the plot, imo. Let's not even start with the lyrics.

Like others have pointed out, they should have continued with JSS. He would have been the best fit for the band. A voice of his own, he's his own man, and one wouldn't compare to Perry. He'd hold his own. Perhaps that's why he was kicked out of the band. Arnel will always be a hired hand and the dynamic went out the window big time. In order for it to work, the singer must stand his own ground.

Arnel can obviously never come close to Perry. At the same he's in a band that is trying to remember what their "legacy sound" was. Add the watered down writing, the rush job demo feel of the production and the end result can only be poor as evidenced on both Revelation and Eclipse. I can only take about 3 songs at a time with Eclipse, after that I'm so bored that I have to listen to something else.

That's a sad state of affairs for a long time JRNY fan who just wants them to get back on the right track again.

That's why certain bands have SIDE PROJECTS, so they can explore other styles, and interests....you don't turn your classic band into a caricature of itself to prove that late 50s...early 60s year old people can still rock.

Journey had Jeff....now they can lie in that oversized, bargain bin of a bed that they made.

I get that many fans will never enjoy Journey without the singature vocals of Perry, so should just enjoy what Perry did with Journey and listen to it and move on from present Journey . Perry is long gone, even solowise, his choice.

For those mentioning JSS up above as the answer, if JSS was with the band, I would have moved on, but wish the band well. Just not the vocals for Journey for me. But glad if it works for other fans. I would just listen to bands I did enjoy and listen to past albums of Journey.

jrny10 wrote:JRNY was never about cheese.

Easily the funniest quote I've ever read on this forum. Almost all 80's acts now carry the stigma of being gulity pleasures and Journey is no exception. They were barely cool even in their heyday.

They were never cheesy to me. Listen to ROR. Pure heart, pure soul. Which is why they connected with so many, obviously. It was the real thing.

Tantra, otoh, feels like the end result of Cain having spent a weekend watching the Lion King on repeat. It just sounds too sugar coated and theatralic.

I miss the sadness and real pain that used to be such an ever so important ingredient in JRNY's music (last heard on TBF/Arrival). Perry was largely responsible for that, it simply can't be argued. Having said that, Schon had more of that back then too.

NP: "Of a Lifetime"

jrny10 wrote:They were never cheesy to me. Listen to ROR. Pure heart, pure soul. Which is why they connected with so many, obviously. It was the real thing.

Tantra, otoh, feels like the end result of Cain having spent a weekend watching the Lion King on repeat. So sugar coated...

NP: "Of a Lifetime"

1. Watch all their music videos from the 80's

2. Read all their lyrics from the 80's

3. Take a peak at what they looked like in 1986



Cheese sometimes is good...So no complaints from me, but like TNC, you provided me with a morning laugh.

G.I.Jim wrote:I've been listening to Eclipse over and over for the last couple of weeks, and have already retired the album. My initial opinion was "Wow, I LOVE this". Really what I loved was hearing new Cain and Schon music. I'm hung up on the vocals, and it's not Arnel's fault. He gave it a valiant and admirable effort, but he's just no Perry.

Go back and listen to "Separate Ways", "Ask The Lonely", "Stone In Love", and pretty much any of the songs with the stacked, layered vocals. Perry had a technique to stacking those vocals effortlessly and you don't hear anything even similar to that in the post-Perry songs (minus "Remember Me"). It's the missing ingredient to this band, and you'd think the band would try to create those huge, endless layers of vocals that used to be such a big part of their amazing sound... but they don't. They layer a few vocals here and there, but it's just not the same. Hell, several times in Eclipse, the backing vocals don't even end at the same time as the lead vocal, and it sounds sloppy as hell!

Of course Perry sounds nothing like he used to anymore, but I'd take another Perry album with the band over 10 more Arnel albums. Just saying.

Jim, if you had perry here then you most likely would not get anything like Eclipse. If you're looking for "Eclipse" with perry singing it, then understand that perry would never allow Schon to take the control he did on this project.

jrny10 wrote:They were never cheesy to me. Listen to ROR. Pure heart, pure soul. Which is why they connected with so many, obviously. It was the real thing.

Tantra, otoh, feels like the end result of Cain having spent a weekend watching the Lion King on repeat. So sugar coated...

NP: "Of a Lifetime"

Musically speaking, ROR's Positive Touch sax solo is pure brie stanky cheesiness. I don't hear anything on Eclipse that rivals that. Of course, this is all a flamebait gag and you know it. Journey Troll did your act much better about six years ago.

jrny10 wrote:The sonic exceptional? The production sounds like a demo. No power to the drums. Sloppily recorded BG vocals. What's worse, there's a big cheese factor in several of the songs, Tantra being the prime example. JRNY was never about cheese.

You have a song like City of Hope. Plain boring. Sounds like something Cain would write for a solo album. This song proves how they've lost the plot, imo. Let's not even start with the lyrics.

Like others have pointed out, they should have continued with JSS. He would have been the best fit for the band. A voice of his own, he's his own man, and one wouldn't compare to Perry. He'd hold his own. Perhaps that's why he was kicked out of the band. Arnel will always be a hired hand and the dynamic went out the window big time. In order for it to work, the singer must stand his own ground.

Arnel can obviously never come close to Perry. At the same he's in a band that is trying to remember what their "legacy sound" was. Add the watered down writing, the rush job demo feel of the production and the end result can only be poor as evidenced on both Revelation and Eclipse. I can only take about 3 songs at a time with Eclipse, after that I'm so bored that I have to listen to something else.
That's a sad state of affairs for a long time JRNY fan who just wants them to get back on the right track again.

Then don't listen to it. Move on.

It's interesting. I don't think about Perry when I see clips of JRNY with JSS. I don't make any vocal comparisons with Perry. JSS has got his own voice, has the stage presence and it just works:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELD-d-h_qfs

They still rocked here and don't sound like a tribute band. Arnel has zero stage presence, just jumps around and looks like he just crashed the safety barrier between the front row and the stage. It's just not working. And the yearning for Perry is immense.

The_Noble_Cause wrote:

jrny10 wrote:They were never cheesy to me. Listen to ROR. Pure heart, pure soul. Which is why they connected with so many, obviously. It was the real thing.

Tantra, otoh, feels like the end result of Cain having spent a weekend watching the Lion King on repeat. So sugar coated...

NP: "Of a Lifetime"

Musically speaking, ROR's Positive Touch sax solo is pure brie stanky cheesiness. I don't hear anything on Eclipse that rivals that. Of course, this is all a flamebait gag and you know it. Journey Troll did your act much better about six years ago.

I'm still not getting the concept of not being able to speak one's mind when it comes to saying things that aren't positive about this release....there are numerous threads that cover the positive side of this record, and most people have spoken their peace, in a positive way, A LOT more than once or twice....but as soon as someone doesn't like something they are accused of some sort of an agenda, and thought of as a troll.

I guess the whole lot of you are basically saying, We get it! You don't like Eclipse. Now move on.

All I'm saying is can't the same be said to the people who are masterbating nightly to this record? We get it, you adore it. Now move on.

S2M wrote:I'm still not getting the concept of not being able to speak one's mind when it comes to saying things that aren't positive about this release....there are numerous threads that cover the positive side of this record, and most people have spoken their peace, in a positive way, A LOT more than once or twice....but as soon as someone doesn't like something they are accused of some sort of an agenda, and thought of as a troll.

I guess the whole lot of you are basically saying, We get it! You don't like Eclipse. Now move on.

All I'm saying is can't the same be said to the people who are masterbating nightly to this record? We get it, you adore it. Now move on.

Jrny10 is dropping hyperbolic bombs that are intended to do nothing more than stir shit. ROR not cheesy?!?!?! C'mon now. Everyone here is for debating - if it's legit.

Yes, I don't get that either - why one has to be accused of being a troll just because I'm not in favour of the current line-up? It's as if discussion that isn't 100% complimentary towards Eclipse is frowned upon. Very strange.