MR

Just curious, I keep reading how poorly Eclipse is charting, but on Billboard it's the #4 Rock Album, and the #13 of ALL ALBUMS - Isn't that pretty decent? I know sales are shit, but Billboard "Is the chart to be on" isn't it ?

http://www.billboard.com/charts/rock-al ... se/1504853

superreverb wrote:Just curious, I keep reading how poorly Eclipse is charting, but on Billboard it's the #4 Rock Album, and the #13 of ALL ALBUMS - Isn't that pretty decent? I know sales are shit, but Billboard "Is the chart to be on" isn't it ?

http://www.billboard.com/charts/rock-al ... se/1504853

I believe the issue is the sales as compared to their last effort.
In 2008, they debuted at #5 with an unknown singer and rolled out 105,000 packages their first week. Add to that the Manila DVD being ranked in the top ten Music Video purchases of the year, and it looks like the band can only go up as far sales and popularity, which did indeed happen in 2010 when Journey's stock went through the roof.
Now with everyone onboard with Arnel, the mega brand exposure over the last year because of DSB, for them to come of the gate with 80% decrease in sales is just a shock (except for Monker, of course). At this rate, the album won't even outsell Arrival. Music sales are reportedly on the rise again and we saw a few acts having no problem collecting over 100k in sales last week.
No one's comparing Eclipse to the sales from the 80s, it's only being measured against their last release with Arnel. Sophmore efforts are usually the one's to get scrutinized and that's what's happening here.

Does anybody know how many were sold so far this week?

This album might just sneak up from behind and club everyone over the head. It took me a week to digest the album,
to get to a point where I could judge it. It's a strange type of album. I remember feeling that way when I first listened
to Dark Side of The Moon.

ebake02 wrote:Does anybody know how many were sold so far this week?

I believe it was predicted at midweek to to be between 15 and 20,000.

steveo777 wrote:This album might just sneak up from behind and club everyone over the head.

I really hope so, I would love to see Eclipse knock these talentless MTV pop acts down a peg or two.

At Wal-Mart's digital store and Amazon, The Greatest Hits is now outselling Eclipse. On Itunes, The Greatest Hits is 26 spots behind Eclipse. Another week and the Greatest Hits might overtake Eclipe on all the digital charts.

Obviously people are aware that it's Journey's touring season, a lot of them (probably the younger ones who are more into downloads) are opting to purchase the more familiar product it seems. Really, just another thing that can more than likely be attributed in some small way to Glee.

Why does everybody care how many copies were sold? As if you are looking for some outside justification that it is indeed a great album. If YOU like it, awesome. I'm happy for you....that's what everybody keeps telling me, 'You don't like it, ok we get that....WE do' Ok, you like it. I can accept that....but why the obsession over how many copies were sold?

I feel like I'm looking at eBay autions....and I'm seeing reserve not met...at what point does it become a great album by units sold?

FYI, I do not think marketing has ANYTHING to do with the amount of units sold so far....I think everybody that was going to buy it....has.

What do you mean 'except for Monker'. I said you should be thankful for 50,000 units and no higher then #5....and it only did half of that. So, that was surprising, but not 'shocking' , to me too.

My point is that you guys were predicting 100,000 or more in sales the week prior to release...and then blame promotion when it didn't happen. You should have already accounted for lack of promotion when you pulled that number out of Neal's ass.

Don wrote:

superreverb wrote:Just curious, I keep reading how poorly Eclipse is charting, but on Billboard it's the #4 Rock Album, and the #13 of ALL ALBUMS - Isn't that pretty decent? I know sales are shit, but Billboard "Is the chart to be on" isn't it ?

http://www.billboard.com/charts/rock-al ... se/1504853

I believe the issue is the sales as compared to their last effort.
In 2008, they debuted at #5 with an unknown singer and rolled out 105,000 packages their first week. In 2010, Journey's stock went through the roof. Now with everyone onboard with Arnel, the mega brand exposure over the last year because of DSB, for them to come of the gate with 80% decrease in sales is just a shock (except for Monker, of course). At this rate, the album won't even outsell Arrival. Music sales are reportedly on the rise again and we saw a few acts having no problem collecting over 100k in sales last week.
No one's comparing Eclipse to the sales from the 80s, it's only being measured against their last release with Arnel. Sophmore efforts are usually the one's to get scrutinized and that's what's happening here.

S2M wrote:Why does everybody care how many copies were sold? As if you are looking for some outside justification that it is indeed a great album. If YOU like it, awesome. I'm happy for you....that's what everybody keeps telling me, 'You don't like it, ok we get that....WE do' Ok, you like it. I can accept that....but why the obsession over how many copies were sold?

I feel like I'm looking at eBay autions....and I'm seeing reserve not met...at what point does it become a great album by units sold?

FYI, I do not think marketing has ANYTHING to do with the amount of units sold so far....I think everybody that was going to buy it....has.

Not everyone care about the numbers, just a few of us. If it annoys you, you could always go back to your hockey thread. What's that got, about a week left before Vancouver ends it?

Monker wrote:What do you mean 'except for Monker'. I said you should be thankful for 50,000 units and no higher then #5....and it only did half of that. So, that was surprising, but not 'shocking' , to me too.

My point is that you guys were predicting 100,000 or more in sales the week prior to release...and then blame promotion when it didn't happen. You should have already accounted for lack of promotion when you pulled that number out of Neal's ass.

Don wrote:

superreverb wrote:Just curious, I keep reading how poorly Eclipse is charting, but on Billboard it's the #4 Rock Album, and the #13 of ALL ALBUMS - Isn't that pretty decent? I know sales are shit, but Billboard "Is the chart to be on" isn't it ?

http://www.billboard.com/charts/rock-al ... se/1504853

I believe the issue is the sales as compared to their last effort.
In 2008, they debuted at #5 with an unknown singer and rolled out 105,000 packages their first week. In 2010, Journey's stock went through the roof. Now with everyone onboard with Arnel, the mega brand exposure over the last year because of DSB, for them to come of the gate with 80% decrease in sales is just a shock (except for Monker, of course). At this rate, the album won't even outsell Arrival. Music sales are reportedly on the rise again and we saw a few acts having no problem collecting over 100k in sales last week.
No one's comparing Eclipse to the sales from the 80s, it's only being measured against their last release with Arnel. Sophmore efforts are usually the one's to get scrutinized and that's what's happening here.

I was just checking out your web site, Monker. I was more than impressed. Why did you stop after Generations?

S2M wrote:Why does everybody care how many copies were sold? As if you are looking for some outside justification that it is indeed a great album. If YOU like it, awesome. I'm happy for you....that's what everybody keeps telling me, 'You don't like it, ok we get that....WE do' Ok, you like it. I can accept that....but why the obsession over how many copies were sold?

I feel like I'm looking at eBay autions....and I'm seeing reserve not met...at what point does it become a great album by units sold?

FYI, I do not think marketing has ANYTHING to do with the amount of units sold so far....I think everybody that was going to buy it....has.

Oh, fuck you, as usual, you pessimistic pos. Better go look Sean, I think the overnight drop in temperature might cause the tires on your
car to be half flat in the morning......better go look!

S2M wrote:Why does everybody care how many copies were sold? As if you are looking for some outside justification that it is indeed a great album. If YOU like it, awesome. I'm happy for you....that's what everybody keeps telling me, 'You don't like it, ok we get that....WE do' Ok, you like it. I can accept that....but why the obsession over how many copies were sold?

I feel like I'm looking at eBay autions....and I'm seeing reserve not met...at what point does it become a great album by units sold?

FYI, I do not think marketing has ANYTHING to do with the amount of units sold so far....I think everybody that was going to buy it....has.

Because people don't like to be wrong...and in this case, they were horribly, horribly, embarrassingly badly wrong.

Don wrote:

S2M wrote:Why does everybody care how many copies were sold? As if you are looking for some outside justification that it is indeed a great album. If YOU like it, awesome. I'm happy for you....that's what everybody keeps telling me, 'You don't like it, ok we get that....WE do' Ok, you like it. I can accept that....but why the obsession over how many copies were sold?

I feel like I'm looking at eBay autions....and I'm seeing reserve not met...at what point does it become a great album by units sold?

FYI, I do not think marketing has ANYTHING to do with the amount of units sold so far....I think everybody that was going to buy it....has.

Not everyone care about the numbers, just a few of us. If it annoys you, you could always go back to your hockey thread. What's that got, about a week left before Vancouver ends it?

I'm sorry if you thought my post was an attitude, Don....I'm just not into filtering my words, sorry.

It doesn't annoy me....anymore than cancer annoys an oncologist. I'm just curious. I believe people are looking for outside justification. tis all.

Nothing wrong with being wrong about the numbers (unless, you're a betting man). I was wrong and have no problem nitpicking it to death. It keeps me entertained, especially at work, where all I do is numbers. Journey is always good for a lively conversation as opposed to boring excel sheets.

Don wrote:Nothing wrong with being wrong about the numbers (unless, you're a betting man). I was wrong and have no problem nitpicking it to death. It keeps me entertained, especially at work, where all I do is numbers. Journey is always good for a lively conversation as opposed to boring excel sheets.

How soon can we expect you to get that Journey Excel sheet done?

IMPRESSIVE! So...who's eating CROW now?

Again.. lots and lots... and LOTS of posts about "The Numbers" - I was more commenting, and confused on the OTHER statements, that Eclipse is "Not charting at all" and "Not Charting well", and #4 rock album, and #13 of all the albums released in the world, on something as official as Billboard, ASIDE from the numbers, still MUST mark a successful record by some social, society, industry standards... doesn't it ?

I don't see any other 30+ year old bands in the top 20 of the top 200 albums right now. "I" think it's pretty good for Journey, after front man changes, disappearing for a decade, to still put out material that debuts in the Billboard top 20. let alone top 5 in the Rock Genre.

So it's on track to sell another 15k-20k this week? That's not too bad. It'll probably hit 100k in sales before the U.S. leg of the tour starts and then sales might spike a little bit.

I predict 350,000 sold by December 31.

jrnyjetster wrote:IMPRESSIVE! So...who's eating CROW now?

20,000 sold compared to 105,000 sold three years ago. An 80% decline in sales.Yeah, impressive.

superreverb wrote:Again.. lots and lots... and LOTS of posts about "The Numbers" - I was more commenting, and confused on the OTHER statements, that Eclipse is "Not charting at all" and "Not Charting well", and #4 rock album, and #13 of all the albums released in the world, on something as official as Billboard, ASIDE from the numbers, still MUST mark a successful record by some social, society, industry standards... doesn't it ?

I don't see any other 30+ year old bands in the top 20 of the top 200 albums right now. "I" think it's pretty good for Journey, after front man changes, disappearing for a decade, to still put out material that debuts in the Billboard top 20. let alone top 5 in the Rock Genre.

I'm confused by your comments regarding complaints about the chart position. For the most part, everyone is talking about the numbers, only a few are talking about the chart itself.

If you think losing 80,000 sales as compared to three years ago isn't a big deal, that's fine.

As far as other older acts in the Top 20, we have to look at when their albums actually came out first. The only oldie band who came out with Journey this week was NKOTB, #7 on the chart.
This past 12 months of old rock bands debuting on the chart. None of these acts had the mega exposure of DSB but still did alright. None of them had a platinum album three years ago either.


This is their ranks for the overall Billboard chart when they debuted.

Heart, debuted at #10
Cars at #7
Beastie Boys #2
Stevie Nicks at #6
Paul Simon at #4
Iron Maiden at #4
Tom Petty at #2

So what you are really trying to say is that we should ignore what Journey accomplished with Revelation and The Manila DVD and just call this a pretty good debut anyway?

I'm not trying to bust your balls or anything but it's not like they didn't have success with Arnel already, this isn't a no-name debut from a band that no one's heard of.
When you think about it, Journey was one one the most talked about bands of 2010.

Last but not least, this album has three distributors to Revelation's one. Not so much a Wal-Mart exclusive as it sounded at first.

I get it that "YOU" think it's pretty good to be #13, just like some of "US" don't think it' a good debut, all things considered.

In the final analysis, Journey will tour well, the greatest hits will continue to sell and the band will go on. The only thing low sales may inhibit is the rush for someone to pay Journey for another studio album. This one took three years. Who knows when they next one will come?

Don wrote:

superreverb wrote:Again.. lots and lots... and LOTS of posts about "The Numbers" - I was more commenting, and confused on the OTHER statements, that Eclipse is "Not charting at all" and "Not Charting well", and #4 rock album, and #13 of all the albums released in the world, on something as official as Billboard, ASIDE from the numbers, still MUST mark a successful record by some social, society, industry standards... doesn't it ?

I don't see any other 30+ year old bands in the top 20 of the top 200 albums right now. "I" think it's pretty good for Journey, after front man changes, disappearing for a decade, to still put out material that debuts in the Billboard top 20. let alone top 5 in the Rock Genre.

I'm confused by your comments regarding complaints about the chart position. For the most part, everyone is talking about the numbers, only a few are talking about the chart itself.

If you think losing 80,000 sales as compared to three years ago isn't a big deal, that's fine.

As far as other older acts in the Top 20, we have to look at when their albums actually came out first. The only oldie band who came out with Journey this week was NKOTB, #7 on the chart.
This past 12 months of old rock bands debuting on the chart. None of these acts had the mega exposure of DSB but still did alright. None of them had a platinum album three years ago either.


This is their ranks for the overall Billboard chart when they debuted.

Heart, debuted at #10
Cars at #7
Beastie Boys #2
Stevie Nicks at #6
Paul Simon at #4
Iron Maiden at #4
Tom Petty at #2

So what you are really trying to say is that we should ignore what Journey accomplished with Revelation and The Manila DVD and just call this a pretty good debut anyway?

I'm not trying to bust your balls or anything but it's not like they didn't have success with Arnel already, this isn't a no-name debut from a band that no one's heard of.
When you think about it, Journey was one one the most talked about bands of 2010.

Last but not least, this album has three distributors to Revelation's one. Not so much a Wal-Mart exclusive as it sounded at first.

I get it that "YOU" think it's pretty good to be #13, just like some of "US" don't think it' a good debut, all things considered.

In the final analysis, Journey will tour well, the greatest hits will continue to sell and the band will go on. The only thing low sales may inhibit is the rush for someone to pay Journey for another studio album. This one took three years. Who knows when they next one will come?

Don, thats a very good, well informed post, I'm definitely coming from a less informed place, which is what is with all the question marks in my posts, including the title. I'm genuinely asking questions, looking for a lot of the information you just provided, as comparison.

Again I know the sales are dismal, i never imagined this record to sell even close to revelation, that record, people were buying yet another version of the dirty dozen, a Live concert DVD, and the cinderella story of Arnel, and his introduction to the world as seen on Oprah. Pretty big competition for ANY album of all new material the world has never heard before, in any shoes. I think, and have always thought, that it will be a slow seller, as they tour across the world the next 2 years, I have no prediction, i just thought it was a pretty cool accomplishment to see the record as Billboards #4 rock album, and had read numerous posts about how poorly the album was "Charting" not just posts about how it was "Selling", and really had no comparative perspective, again till your post... so, you're not busting my balls, you're providing some perspective, and information I asked for.

Even after all of this, i'd be willing to bet a wager, that of all the people that know the name Journey, at least 1/2 of them think it was a band in the 80's led by Steve Perry, that either fell off the planet, stopped making music, or is completely unaware of the last 3 singers including AP. Especially with all of the current attention on DSB.

I think that having a record even show up on billboard, that doesn't contain the dirty dozen, might bring at least some current day awareness to some new public, that SP is no longer in the band, and that there's been a BUNCH of new music, (Past and present) and maybe not. In the end... Journey are Journey, they're a rock band on the billboard charts with new music, after 30+ years. I really like this new record, it's really different, and took some balls to make, and i'm glad it's an evolution for the band (Regardless of sales, and chart sacrifices), we've already got a BUNCH of greatest hits, and Live packages, this its truly the 1st different thing this band has offered us in a long time. They can't diminish their legacy, it already is... so i'm glad they're willing to make new, different music, even for perhaps a mere 100,000 people in the end that might appreciate this record, then the masses that already get, and have gotten their legacy over, and over again, and will continue to, as SP keeps re packaging the Greatest hits in new formats, shapes and colors as they arise.

This all got a little OT - the back half of this post, I suppose was for another thread. Anyways, thanks for the post Don.

Because of the Dirty Dozen, and Concert DVD, I personally wouldn't compare the Billboard Debut of Eclipse with Revelation, Rather I'm curious... Where on billboard did Arrival, Red 13, and Generations debut on the Rock charts and on the All Albums charts? anyone have any idea about those albums debut? as they were Just albums (And an EP) with only New Journey material.

superreverb wrote:

Don wrote:

superreverb wrote:Again.. lots and lots... and LOTS of posts about "The Numbers" - I was more commenting, and confused on the OTHER statements, that Eclipse is "Not charting at all" and "Not Charting well", and #4 rock album, and #13 of all the albums released in the world, on something as official as Billboard, ASIDE from the numbers, still MUST mark a successful record by some social, society, industry standards... doesn't it ?

I don't see any other 30+ year old bands in the top 20 of the top 200 albums right now. "I" think it's pretty good for Journey, after front man changes, disappearing for a decade, to still put out material that debuts in the Billboard top 20. let alone top 5 in the Rock Genre.

I'm confused by your comments regarding complaints about the chart position. For the most part, everyone is talking about the numbers, only a few are talking about the chart itself.

If you think losing 80,000 sales as compared to three years ago isn't a big deal, that's fine.

As far as other older acts in the Top 20, we have to look at when their albums actually came out first. The only oldie band who came out with Journey this week was NKOTB, #7 on the chart.
This past 12 months of old rock bands debuting on the chart. None of these acts had the mega exposure of DSB but still did alright. None of them had a platinum album three years ago either.


This is their ranks for the overall Billboard chart when they debuted.

Heart, debuted at #10
Cars at #7
Beastie Boys #2
Stevie Nicks at #6
Paul Simon at #4
Iron Maiden at #4
Tom Petty at #2

So what you are really trying to say is that we should ignore what Journey accomplished with Revelation and The Manila DVD and just call this a pretty good debut anyway?

I'm not trying to bust your balls or anything but it's not like they didn't have success with Arnel already, this isn't a no-name debut from a band that no one's heard of.
When you think about it, Journey was one one the most talked about bands of 2010.

Last but not least, this album has three distributors to Revelation's one. Not so much a Wal-Mart exclusive as it sounded at first.

I get it that "YOU" think it's pretty good to be #13, just like some of "US" don't think it' a good debut, all things considered.

In the final analysis, Journey will tour well, the greatest hits will continue to sell and the band will go on. The only thing low sales may inhibit is the rush for someone to pay Journey for another studio album. This one took three years. Who knows when they next one will come?

Don, thats a very good, well informed post, I'm definitely coming from a less informed place, which is what is with all the question marks in my posts, including the title. I'm genuinely asking questions, looking for a lot of the information you just provided, as comparison.

Again I know the sales are dismal, i never imagined this record to sell even close to revelation, that record, people were buying yet another version of the dirty dozen, a Live concert DVD, and the cinderella story of Arnel, and his introduction to the world as seen on Oprah. Pretty big competition for ANY album of all new material the world has never heard before, in any shoes. I think, and have always thought, that it will be a slow seller, as they tour across the world the next 2 years, I have no prediction, i just thought it was a pretty cool accomplishment to see the record as Billboards #4 rock album, and had read numerous posts about how poorly the album was "Charting" not just posts about how it was "Selling", and really had no comparative perspective, again till your post... so, you're not busting my balls, you're providing some perspective, and information I asked for.

Even after all of this, i'd be willing to bet a wager, that of all the people that know the name Journey, at least 1/2 of them think it was a band in the 80's led by Steve Perry, that either fell off the planet, stopped making music, or is completely unaware of the last 3 singers including AP. Especially with all of the current attention on DSB.

I think that having a record even show up on billboard, that doesn't contain the dirty dozen, might bring at least some current day awareness to some new public, that SP is no longer in the band, and that there's been a BUNCH of new music, (Past and present) and maybe not. In the end... Journey are Journey, they're a rock band on the billboard charts with new music, after 30+ years. I really like this new record, it's really different, and took some balls to make, and i'm glad it's an evolution for the band (Regardless of sales, and chart sacrifices), we've already got a BUNCH of greatest hits, and Live packages, this its truly the 1st different thing this band has offered us in a long time. They can't diminish their legacy, it already is... so i'm glad they're willing to make new, different music, even for perhaps a mere 100,000 people in the end that might appreciate this record, then the masses that already get, and have gotten their legacy over, and over again, and will continue to, as SP keeps re packaging the Greatest hits in new formats, shapes and colors as they arise.

This all got a little OT - the back half of this post, I suppose was for another thread. Anyways, thanks for the post Don.

Because of the Dirty Dozen, and Concert DVD, I personally wouldn't compare the Billboard Debut of Eclipse with Revelation, Rather I'm curious... Where on billboard did Arrival, Red 13, and Generations debut on the Rock charts and on the All Albums charts? anyone have any idea about those albums debut? as they were Just albums (And an EP) with only New Journey material.

http://www.billboard.com/#/artist/journ ... story/4963

Breakdown can be found in the Chart Thread

ETA Journey last 4 albums Billboard Chart Data a/o 6/1/2011 ETA : the first number is the highest chart position
56 Arrival Billboard 200 »April 21 2001 6 weeks on charts
170 Generations Billboard 200 »October 22 2005 1 week on charts
5 Revelation Billboard 200 » June 21 2008 10 weeks on chart

Plus Revelation charted on other Billboard charts

2 Rock Albums »June 28 2008 1 week on chart
1 Independent Albums » June 21 2008 27 weeks on chart
28 Catalog Albums » April 3 2010 1 week on chart

Its pretty apparent charting and unit sales... 80's-vs-now are 2 completely different animals..

further... On the face of it, charting and sales appear to also be completely un-linked.. so measuring "success"... for an old artist may require a new set of criteria.. or at least a new perspective on the existing criteria...

slucero wrote:Its pretty apparent charting and unit sales... 80's-vs-now are 2 completely different animals..

further... On the face of it, charting and sales appear to also be completely un-linked.. so measuring "success"... for an old artist may require a new set of criteria.. or at least a new perspective on the existing criteria...

I think it's simpler.
Chart Ranking is relative to competition and sales environment. Finishing #1 in an overall weak period isn't worth much.
Units Sold is closer to an absolute measure, and directly determines an album's commercial success.

While it's fun to try to divine the reasons for it, I think it's beyond dispute that Eclipse is a commercial disappointment
for now, and looks to remain one for the foreseeable future. An album can't 'grow on the listener', if the listener can't
be half-assed to buy it and bend an ear to it in the first place.

The packaging is shit, the marketing is shit, and to be honest... several tracks on the album are either shit outright, or
devolve into shit by the time we hear the bridge/chorus, so odds are long on attracting the business of those who just
happen to hear it:

Journey has Neal fucking Schon on axe, Arnel Pineda's vocal power/range, Castronovo's skin-splitting sticks, the
underutilized dependability of a Ross Valory, and they STILL can't produce a single, viable hard-rock hit out of 12 tracks
total? Some songs start out strong, with fresh, compelling and radio-friendly hooks and phrasings that grab attention...
but then collapse into unimaginative Major-minor progression cliches in the bridges and choruses.

Fucking wasted opportunities threaten to be the reliably-recurring theme with this band.

Don wrote:I believe the issue is the sales as compared to their last effort.

Their last effort featured covers of some of the biggest songs of all time. For an album of new material, this is a strong debut.

The_Noble_Cause wrote:

Don wrote:I believe the issue is the sales as compared to their last effort.

Their last effort featured covers of some of the biggest songs of all time. For an album of new material, this is a strong debut.

Don makes a good comparison that the chart position was lower for all of their peers recent work, but I agree with you, overall. Since I predicted it would eventually sell between 250k-500k I'm probably going to be wrong. But #13 isn't as bad as some keep saying it is. 20k is moderately disappointing, but with a consistent plugging away tour effort coupled with the Today show concert I still think this thing can do a respectable 175k-200k.

Just not sure why the US release date was when the band was out of the country?

Eric wrote:Don makes a good comparison that the chart position was lower for all of their peers recent work, but I agree with you, overall.

Most of their peers had some serious promotion (not sure about the new Cars album), at least Eclipse's ranking is competetive. Couldn't say that about Arrival or Gens, or any past new J release.

Don wrote: If it annoys you, you could always go back to your hockey thread. What's that got, about a week left before Vancouver ends it?

Look at WikiDon with some huge ups, flying down the lane with a tomahawk two fisted jam right in S2M's grill!

Rockindeano wrote:

Don wrote: If it annoys you, you could always go back to your hockey thread. What's that got, about a week left before Vancouver ends it?

Look at WikiDon with some huge ups, flying down the lane with a tomahawk two fisted jam right in S2M's grill!

And here we go folks, another classic witticism by the lovechild of Triumph the Insult Dog, and that blob of shit that Bill Paxton turns into in Weird Science....a round of applause, please....