MR

At the time TBF came out, my cable TV provider at the time didn't offer MTV or VH1 the way most other cable companies on the planet did. You had to subscribe to at least one premium network in order to get them. BULLSHIT! I will not be bullied! LOL!

Anyway, that being the case, I never really knew how the video did as far as popularity, acceptance, etc. So my question is this: Did it do anything in terms of boosting sales for TBF and how well did it do in the music video world (most requested video, got lots of airplay, people liked it.... that sort of stuff.) When I think back to the TBF era of the band's history, I sorta feel like I missed a part of the band's presence and history by not seeing that video and following its success simply because I wasn't willing to pad the pockets of the exec's that ran my then current cable provider.

Thanks for sharing the info and memories you have about that year and the video's success.

It got decent play on VH1, none on MTV. I remember it debuting in the 7 am hour. I was at college at the time and got up early to watch. But, I do remember seeing a decent amount of times. I don't think they had their Top 20 weekly countdown at the time.

Didn't see your other question. If I recall, it came out roughly a month after the album debuted so no it did not help sales. The album debut #3 and gradually dropped. I think they may shot the video only because of the success of the single/album.

Tito wrote:Didn't see your other question. If I recall, it came out roughly a month after the album debuted so no it did not help sales. The album debut #3 and gradually dropped. I think they may shot the video only because of the success of the single/album.

Thanks Tito for your replies. And not to be knit-picky but didn't TBF debut at No. 1 ??

JRNYMAN wrote:

Tito wrote:Didn't see your other question. If I recall, it came out roughly a month after the album debuted so no it did not help sales. The album debut #3 and gradually dropped. I think they may shot the video only because of the success of the single/album.

Thanks Tito for your replies. And not to be knit-picky but didn't TBF debut at No. 1 ??

Wikipedia

On November 9, 1996, the album peaked at #3 on the Billboard 200 and was eventually certified platinum in the United States by the RIAA. The band did not receive another platinum award until Revelation in 2008.

Archetype wrote:

JRNYMAN wrote:

Tito wrote:Didn't see your other question. If I recall, it came out roughly a month after the album debuted so no it did not help sales. The album debut #3 and gradually dropped. I think they may shot the video only because of the success of the single/album.

Thanks Tito for your replies. And not to be knit-picky but didn't TBF debut at No. 1 ??

Wikipedia

On November 9, 1996, the album peaked at #3 on the Billboard 200 and was eventually certified platinum in the United States by the RIAA. The band did not receive another platinum award until Revelation in 2008.

You're absolutely right. Not sure why but I've believed forever and a day TBF debuted at No. 1. DOH!!

Billboard Link with the pertinent info:
http://www.billboard.com/#/charts/billb ... 1996-11-09

JRNYMAN wrote: ... but didn't TBF debut at No. 1 ??

TBF shipped #1, I think. That means that all the outlets stocking it, ordered more of it than any other album at the time. I think there was some controversy about how well it sold, and if the outlets could send it back or not.

Monker once explained it quite well.



later~

Just remember that Wikipedia is not the end all for all subjects. I've done dozens of edits to correct erroneous data that's made its way onto that site.

Arkansas wrote:

JRNYMAN wrote: ... but didn't TBF debut at No. 1 ??

TBF shipped #1, I think. That means that all the outlets stocking it, ordered more of it than any other album at the time. I think there was some controversy about how well it sold, and if the outlets could send it back or not.

Monker once explained it quite well.



later~

Ya know, I remember that... and you're right - he did explain it very well. I had forgotten all about that thread.

JRNYMAN wrote:... how the video did as far as popularity, acceptance, etc. So my question is this: Did it do anything in terms of boosting sales for TBF and how well did it do in the music video world (most requested video, got lots of airplay, people liked it.... that sort of stuff.) When I think back to the TBF era of the band's history, I sorta feel like I missed a part of the band's presence and history ...

I think the video was more about the classic Journey lineup than it was the song.

This is truly a great Journey song...beautifully written & orchestrated, compact & concise, all about the emotional effort to appreciate the beauty of a great relationship. This song is about a man to a woman, but mostly geared toward making women melt in appreciation to how deeply they're loved. Pure Journey at it's finest.

However, the video was all about showcasing the classic lineup doing what they do best - playing love songs.

The video didn't tell any particular 'boy-loves-girl' story. This video is a comeback story. "Hey girls, here are the guys that write it all so well, Journey! And look at they way this was recorded. You wish you were there...being sung to."

The long hair, the dark mahogany tones, the women on strings, white guitars, ivory keys, & the white tees to add contrast...this video is a showcase for the once-young Journey, now older & refined, are still writing the love songs you want.

There didn't need to be any graphic story telling at all. They needed to tell the world that the prom songs, the wedding songs, still exist. And the band that did it the best was back!

This was all promo for the album...and it was elegantly done. The atmosphere and production of the video told the story itself.



later~

Arkansas wrote:

JRNYMAN wrote:... how the video did as far as popularity, acceptance, etc. So my question is this: Did it do anything in terms of boosting sales for TBF and how well did it do in the music video world (most requested video, got lots of airplay, people liked it.... that sort of stuff.) When I think back to the TBF era of the band's history, I sorta feel like I missed a part of the band's presence and history ...

I think the video was more about the classic Journey lineup than it was the song.

This is truly a great Journey song...beautifully written & orchestrated, compact & concise, all about the emotional effort to appreciate the beauty of a great relationship. This song is about a man to a woman, but mostly geared toward making women melt in appreciation to how deeply they're loved. Pure Journey at it's finest.

However, the video was all about showcasing the classic lineup doing what they do best - playing love songs.

The video didn't tell any particular 'boy-loves-girl' story. This video is a comeback story. "Hey girls, here are the guys that write it all so well, Journey! And look at they way this was recorded. You wish you were there...being sung to."

The long hair, the dark mahogany tones, the women on strings, white guitars, ivory keys, & the white tees to add contrast...this video is a showcase for the once-young Journey, now older & refined, are still writing the love songs you want.

There didn't need to be any graphic story telling at all. They needed to tell the world that the prom songs, the wedding songs, still exist. And the band that did it the best was back!

This was all promo for the album...and it was elegantly done. The atmosphere and production of the video told the story itself.

later~

Thanks for the eloquent and interesting take on the video. I've watched it probably a hundred times over the years so I'm more than a little bit familiar with it by now but when it aired, streaming video was in its infancy and YT didn't exist yet I don't think so access to it was extremely limited. My personal take on the theme or meaning of the video is slightly different than yours but still just as sincere and heartfelt. I don't have time at the moment to explain because I'm running late as it is but maybe later today when I get home.

Thanks for the reply!

Steve

Van Halen's Greatest Hits debuted at #1 that week. It was a huge deal, because it featured DLR returning to the band (for two tracks). But TBF was also a pretty big deal for the time. It was playing in the local Sam Goody all week that week, and I also remember it getting big mentions on Friday Night Video.

Art Vandelay wrote:Van Halen's Greatest Hits debuted at #1 that week. It was a huge deal, because it featured DLR returning to the band (for two tracks). But TBF was also a pretty big deal for the time. It was playing in the local Sam Goody all week that week, and I also remember it getting big mentions on Friday Night Video.

Yeah, the momentum was HUGE at the time ... until, of course, fake injuries and bullshit lies railroaded the reunion tour of the decade. Shame, too. They're really the only super group whose lead singer has remained a pouting, soulless pussy and not reunited for the fans.

Saint John wrote:

Art Vandelay wrote:Van Halen's Greatest Hits debuted at #1 that week. It was a huge deal, because it featured DLR returning to the band (for two tracks). But TBF was also a pretty big deal for the time. It was playing in the local Sam Goody all week that week, and I also remember it getting big mentions on Friday Night Video.

Yeah, the momentum was HUGE at the time ... until, of course, fake injuries and bullshit lies railroaded the reunion tour of the decade. Shame, too. They're really the only super group whose lead singer has remained a pouting, soulless pussy and not reunited for the fans.

Whatever the reasons, it was a damn shame. That was a guaranteed stadium tour. They did everything right for that re;lease: decent press, commercials, all of the '78-'86 material repackaged nicely. Once there were no live appearances (SNL, Letterman/Leno), the writing was on the wall

Saint John wrote:
Yeah, the momentum was HUGE at the time ... until, of course, fake injuries and bullshit lies railroaded the reunion tour of the decade. Shame, too. They're really the only super group whose lead singer has remained a pouting, soulless pussy and not reunited for the fans.

Indisputable, factual wisdom! Could not agree with you more! What he did to the fans, the band and those it employs, etc. was a deliberate slap in the face all by itself but to then become the unapproachable, can't-and-won't-be-bothered-with-it prima dona he did showed and solidified the fact that he doesn't give a shit about anyone but himself. The role he played as J's singer was immensely larger than the individual that is Steve Perry. When he signed on for and it was announced that they would be touring together it set the wheels in motion for what ultimately would have been one of the biggest and most anticipated reunions in music history - and certainly the most memorable. I mean seriously... No one in the universe would have ever believed DLR and Eddie would EVER shared the same stage again and then it happened and the hype and interest in that event fizzled out after just a couple of months. Same thing with The Eagles - then again, they did sort of milk that one dry what with.... what are they up to, I think it's going on the 6th farewell tour... I dunno. I firmly believe though that THAT reunion would have been talked about and remained the huge deal it would have been for far longer than either of the other two I mentioned. Obviously, that's one "what if" we'll never know the answer to.

And after everything he did and said to show his true colors as a certified douche bag, he's still got a huge group of worshipers who are certain he has the unspoken ability to walk on water.

[/rant]

don't hold back there, ok?

Did Perry fuck someone's girlfriend again?

Don wrote:Did Perry fuck someone's girlfriend again?

Ya know one thing I've learned over the years is to NEVER under any circumstances post anything, anywhere when I'm mad - yet I still do it. (Gun to side of head...)

Just got off the phone with the service adviser at the repair shop after arguing with him for 20 minutes. MF A/C quit working in the car yesterday so I took it in first thing this morning after he promised I'd have it back today without fail (that stipulation was a deal breaker..) and then tells me he won't be able to even start on it until Monday! Oh and BTW, It's 114 fucking degrees and going to be for the next 3 days!

JRNYMAN wrote:

Don wrote:Did Perry fuck someone's girlfriend again?

Ya know one thing I've learned over the years is to NEVER under any circumstances post anything, anywhere when I'm mad - yet I still do it. (Gun to side of head...)

Just got off the phone with the service adviser at the repair shop after arguing with him for 20 minutes. MF A/C quit working in the car yesterday so I took it in first thing this morning after he promised I'd have it back today without fail (that stipulation was a deal breaker..) and then tells me he won't be able to even start on it until Monday! Oh and BTW, It's 114 fucking degrees and going to be for the next 3 days!

So you took it out on SP?!?
You better watch your wife!!
lol@G~boy!!

JRNYMAN wrote:

Don wrote:Did Perry fuck someone's girlfriend again?

Ya know one thing I've learned over the years is to NEVER under any circumstances post anything, anywhere when I'm mad - yet I still do it. (Gun to side of head...)

Just got off the phone with the service adviser at the repair shop after arguing with him for 20 minutes. MF A/C quit working in the car yesterday so I took it in first thing this morning after he promised I'd have it back today without fail (that stipulation was a deal breaker..) and then tells me he won't be able to even start on it until Monday! Oh and BTW, It's 114 fucking degrees and going to be for the next 3 days!

Auto mechanics are notorious for either: A - Not calling when the repairs have been done AND B - Lying about when the repairs will be done.

conversationpc wrote:

JRNYMAN wrote:

Don wrote:Did Perry fuck someone's girlfriend again?

Ya know one thing I've learned over the years is to NEVER under any circumstances post anything, anywhere when I'm mad - yet I still do it. (Gun to side of head...)

Just got off the phone with the service adviser at the repair shop after arguing with him for 20 minutes. MF A/C quit working in the car yesterday so I took it in first thing this morning after he promised I'd have it back today without fail (that stipulation was a deal breaker..) and then tells me he won't be able to even start on it until Monday! Oh and BTW, It's 114 fucking degrees and going to be for the next 3 days!

Auto mechanics are notorious for either: A - Not calling when the repairs have been done AND B - Lying about when the repairs will be done.

And ya know the real pisser about this is normally I do all my own work but this week I'm completely swamped... more like overwhelmed with a bazillion little micro projects and we're down to one car at the moment so I decided to bite the bullet and take it somewhere to get fixed so it would be done by a certain time guaranteed and I can still get all the shit done I need to and the car is back in my driveway all nice and fixed and they lived happily ever after right?

**insert sound of game show "wrong answer" buzzer here**

Now, I get to go pick the car up, buy a cooling fan motor, then proceed to pull the fan assembly which, in order to get to on this particular car, the instructions might as well begin with the following:

1. Start by removing front bumper.
2. Continue removing every fucking part of the car until you have removed the cooling fan assembly.

Now if you'll excuse me, I've got to get back to.... FUCK! What the Hell was I doing before I checked my email.....?! God damn if this day doesn't just keep getting better and better!

Since we are on the subject of TBF...well sort of.. How freakin long did it take to make that album? I have had the pleasure of listening to it for the past couple of days and Perry's voice is so different on each and every song.. His voice will be raspy then not so raspy... I think I heard once that Perry frustrated Neal with how many takes it took on some of the songs. Anyone know..


Just got my car out of the shop for A/C cooling fan motor assembly. I'm in Tucson. Mine had it done in 2 days. I have a Saturn and they had to order in the pigtail adapter for the cooling fan/motor thingy..

I love Journey with Perry, but damn they need to grow up and play nice! (and that is aimed at all of them)..

escapefan wrote:Just got my car out of the shop for A/C cooling fan motor assembly. I'm in Tucson. Mine had it done in 2 days. I have a Saturn and they had to order in the pigtail adapter for the cooling fan/motor thingy..

Holy Shit... another racist... er... I mean Arizonan!! There are probably more of us registered here but I've either never bumped into any of them here or they're too scared/ashamed to admit they live here. I was seriously bummed and genuinely surprised to see they didn't include Tucson in the tour this year. You guys always bring the love by selling out each and every show there. It also gave those of us here in the Valley 'O the Sun a chance at seeing them a second time - OR - for some, the opportunity to see them at all if we can't make it the night they play PHX.

Once again, they're tour scheduler is either very, very angry with the band or somehow isn't aware that a tour stop in PHX in late July is not the best way to enhance ticket sales.

Getting back to the car situation... I went and picked up the car but not before I called and spoke with the general manager of Sun Devil Auto. I very calmly and diplomatically explained the situation to him and asked him if what I had experienced was what he believed to be acceptable business practices, and then ended the conversation by telling him to call the shop where my car was and to please have my car ready and waiting for me in 30 mins. because I was taking my business to was more than willing and able to get my car in and out TODAY! Not sure what was discussed in their conversation. All I do know is my car was out front when I got there as was that store's manager who apologized profusely for the "misunderstanding" and handed me my keys and 2 coupons for free oil changes. I ripped the coupons in half, put them in his shirt pocket and told him "there was no misunderstanding - you lied!" So the car is fixed and in the driveway.

JRNYMAN wrote:

escapefan wrote:Just got my car out of the shop for A/C cooling fan motor assembly. I'm in Tucson. Mine had it done in 2 days. I have a Saturn and they had to order in the pigtail adapter for the cooling fan/motor thingy..

Holy Shit... another racist... er... I mean Arizonan!! There are probably more of us registered here but I've either never bumped into any of them here or they're too scared/ashamed to admit they live here. I was seriously bummed and genuinely surprised to see they didn't include Tucson in the tour this year. You guys always bring the love by selling out each and every show there. It also gave those of us here in the Valley 'O the Sun a chance at seeing them a second time - OR - for some, the opportunity to see them at all if we can't make it the night they play PHX.

Once again, they're tour scheduler is either very, very angry with the band or somehow isn't aware that a tour stop in PHX in late July is not the best way to enhance ticket sales.

Getting back to the car situation... I went and picked up the car but not before I called and spoke with the general manager of Sun Devil Auto. I very calmly and diplomatically explained the situation to him and asked him if what I had experienced was what he believed to be acceptable business practices, and then ended the conversation by telling him to call the shop where my car was and to please have my car ready and waiting for me in 30 mins. because I was taking my business to was more than willing and able to get my car in and out TODAY! Not sure what was discussed in their conversation. All I do know is my car was out front when I got there as was that store's manager who apologized profusely for the "misunderstanding" and handed me my keys and 2 coupons for free oil changes. I ripped the coupons in half, put them in his shirt pocket and told him "there was no misunderstanding - you lied!" So the car is fixed and in the driveway.

I've been accused too! All these people are waiting for Jesus to come.
The dude comes every week........and mows my lawn. Guy by the same name
delivers my papers and, yet, another, detailed my car. I don't understand!!!

Hell, saw this freeway sign the other day...... Has life become unmanageable? Call (800) xxx-xxxx
Jesus can help! I called and a nice lady answered......"Medoza landscaping, this is Maria...can I help you?"

steveo777 wrote:

JRNYMAN wrote:

escapefan wrote:Just got my car out of the shop for A/C cooling fan motor assembly. I'm in Tucson. Mine had it done in 2 days. I have a Saturn and they had to order in the pigtail adapter for the cooling fan/motor thingy..

Holy Shit... another racist... er... I mean Arizonan!! There are probably more of us registered here but I've either never bumped into any of them here or they're too scared/ashamed to admit they live here. I was seriously bummed and genuinely surprised to see they didn't include Tucson in the tour this year. You guys always bring the love by selling out each and every show there. It also gave those of us here in the Valley 'O the Sun a chance at seeing them a second time - OR - for some, the opportunity to see them at all if we can't make it the night they play PHX.

Once again, they're tour scheduler is either very, very angry with the band or somehow isn't aware that a tour stop in PHX in late July is not the best way to enhance ticket sales.

Getting back to the car situation... I went and picked up the car but not before I called and spoke with the general manager of Sun Devil Auto. I very calmly and diplomatically explained the situation to him and asked him if what I had experienced was what he believed to be acceptable business practices, and then ended the conversation by telling him to call the shop where my car was and to please have my car ready and waiting for me in 30 mins. because I was taking my business to was more than willing and able to get my car in and out TODAY! Not sure what was discussed in their conversation. All I do know is my car was out front when I got there as was that store's manager who apologized profusely for the "misunderstanding" and handed me my keys and 2 coupons for free oil changes. I ripped the coupons in half, put them in his shirt pocket and told him "there was no misunderstanding - you lied!" So the car is fixed and in the driveway.

I've been accused too! All these people are waiting for Jesus to come.
The dude comes every week........and mows my lawn. Guy by the same name
delivers my papers and, yet, another, detailed my car. I don't understand!!!

Hell, saw this freeway sign the other day...... Has life become unmanageable? Call (800) xxx-xxxx
Jesus can help! I called and a nice lady answered......"Medoza landscaping, this is Maria...can I help you?"

Priceless!

Sheriff Joe is my hero! This guy has it right, but I think he's a bit too nice. Guy has more balls than a pool table
and at his age. Amazing man!

steveo777 wrote:Sheriff Joe is my hero! This guy has it right, but I think he's a bit too nice. Guy has more balls than a pool table
and at his age. Amazing man!

He does indeed make going to jail a very unpleasant experience for those who choose to live that kind of life and has saved the taxpayers a lot of money by eliminating everything except the absolute minimum he is required by federal and state laws to provide for his guests. However, the guy has lost so much credibility and respect from his supporters and constituents due to his grandstanding and self back-patting. He's a media whore and people have gotten sick of him being on the news every-other-day boasting about the latest thing he did and how it was complete success because his office was the only one that has the balls to do what they do, blah, blah, blah. He has shot himself in the foot a few times now by badmouthing his sister agencies in an effort to make his look even better. People don't want the sheriff having a "Yay me!" party every time he does what he's paid to do.

That said, I wouldn't want his job that's for sure nor would I want to work in law enforcement in Maricopa County. The entire country has no doubt heard about the various measures the Arizona gov't. has employed in an attempt to reduce the number of illegal aliens and the subsequent crimes committed by them and unfortunately, the news coverage elsewhere is usually spun in such a way that AZ ultimately looks like a bunch of racist, gun-toting, bigots. But if you've never been here to see just how completely out of control the situation has become and continues to worsen every single day..... you can't possibly begin to imagine how desperate the situation is. FUCK Obama for personally trying to block SB1070 and throwing a federal judge at our governor just because she took the initiative to do what he is obligated and bound by the constitution to do, but won't!

And before anyone reading this decides to chime in and call me a racist - Don't! I'm far from being a racist. My soon to be son-in-law is black and one of the greatest kids I've ever known and my wife is Hispanic. Supporting the fight to secure our borders has nothing to do with race. Every other country in the world has very strict rules and very severe consequences regarding their respective immigration laws and those who break them - so should we. And with that I'm stepping down off of my soapbox and heading out to the front porch with a jug of white lghtnin' and my shotgun to watch for illegals. DUKE....? Where the Hell has that dog gone now....?

JRNYMAN wrote:

steveo777 wrote:Sheriff Joe is my hero! This guy has it right, but I think he's a bit too nice. Guy has more balls than a pool table
and at his age. Amazing man!

He does indeed make going to jail a very unpleasant experience for those who choose to live that kind of life and has saved the taxpayers a lot of money by eliminating everything except the absolute minimum he is required by federal and state laws to provide for his guests. However, the guy has lost so much credibility and respect from his supporters and constituents due to his grandstanding and self back-patting. He's a media whore and people have gotten sick of him being on the news every-other-day boasting about the latest thing he did and how it was complete success because his office was the only one that has the balls to do what they do, blah, blah, blah. He has shot himself in the foot a few times now by badmouthing his sister agencies in an effort to make his look even better. People don't want the sheriff having a "Yay me!" party every time he does what he's paid to do.

That said, I wouldn't want his job that's for sure nor would I want to work in law enforcement in Maricopa County. The entire country has no doubt heard about the various measures the Arizona gov't. has employed in an attempt to reduce the number of illegal aliens and the subsequent crimes committed by them and unfortunately, the news coverage elsewhere is usually spun in such a way that AZ ultimately looks like a bunch of racist, gun-toting, bigots. But if you've never been here to see just how completely out of control the situation has become and continues to worsen every single day..... you can't possibly begin to imagine how desperate the situation is. FUCK Obama for personally trying to block SB1070 and throwing a federal judge at our governor just because she took the initiative to do what he is obligated and bound by the constitution to do, but won't!

And before anyone reading this decides to chime in and call me a racist - Don't! I'm far from being a racist. My soon to be son-in-law is black and one of the greatest kids I've ever known and my wife is Hispanic. Supporting the fight to secure our borders has nothing to do with race. Every other country in the world has very strict rules and very severe consequences regarding their respective immigration laws and those who break them - so should we. And with that I'm stepping down off of my soapbox and heading out to the front porch with a jug of white lghtnin' and my shotgun to watch for illegals. DUKE....? Where the Hell has that dog gone now....?

Steve! Come here to Pasco Washington. You will see the same shit, only more of it. I'm not as close to Sheriff Joe as you are, so us folks don't see all of the inner politics that you see, but trust me, we have a similar situation here. Google it.

steveo777 wrote:

JRNYMAN wrote:

steveo777 wrote:Sheriff Joe is my hero! This guy has it right, but I think he's a bit too nice. Guy has more balls than a pool table
and at his age. Amazing man!

He does indeed make going to jail a very unpleasant experience for those who choose to live that kind of life and has saved the taxpayers a lot of money by eliminating everything except the absolute minimum he is required by federal and state laws to provide for his guests. However, the guy has lost so much credibility and respect from his supporters and constituents due to his grandstanding and self back-patting. He's a media whore and people have gotten sick of him being on the news every-other-day boasting about the latest thing he did and how it was complete success because his office was the only one that has the balls to do what they do, blah, blah, blah. He has shot himself in the foot a few times now by badmouthing his sister agencies in an effort to make his look even better. People don't want the sheriff having a "Yay me!" party every time he does what he's paid to do.

That said, I wouldn't want his job that's for sure nor would I want to work in law enforcement in Maricopa County. The entire country has no doubt heard about the various measures the Arizona gov't. has employed in an attempt to reduce the number of illegal aliens and the subsequent crimes committed by them and unfortunately, the news coverage elsewhere is usually spun in such a way that AZ ultimately looks like a bunch of racist, gun-toting, bigots. But if you've never been here to see just how completely out of control the situation has become and continues to worsen every single day..... you can't possibly begin to imagine how desperate the situation is. FUCK Obama for personally trying to block SB1070 and throwing a federal judge at our governor just because she took the initiative to do what he is obligated and bound by the constitution to do, but won't!

And before anyone reading this decides to chime in and call me a racist - Don't! I'm far from being a racist. My soon to be son-in-law is black and one of the greatest kids I've ever known and my wife is Hispanic. Supporting the fight to secure our borders has nothing to do with race. Every other country in the world has very strict rules and very severe consequences regarding their respective immigration laws and those who break them - so should we. And with that I'm stepping down off of my soapbox and heading out to the front porch with a jug of white lghtnin' and my shotgun to watch for illegals. DUKE....? Where the Hell has that dog gone now....?

Steve! Come here to Pasco Washington. You will see the same shit, only more of it. I'm not as close to Sheriff Joe as you are, so us folks don't see all of the inner politics that you see, but trust me, we have a similar situation here. Google it.

Ahhh... you're in the Tri-cities.... that explains a lot! My best buddy is from there by way of Boise and he still has relatives in Kennewick. We've talked about your situation a couple of times so I'm at least a little familiar with what you're dealing with. The problem for you guys, as I understand it, is the unavailability of funds and resources to combat the issue. And that does indeed make the situation that much more urgent and dire. PHX is the 5th largest mertro area in the country now with a population of over 5 million people - 80% of which are right here in the valley. It doesn't make us cash-rich by any means, we just have a larger resource base to draw from.

Just as an aside...
I love the great northwest! I was raised in the Bay Area but moved to the Chico/Paradise area for the last two years of high school. My oldest brother lived in Seattle (Mountlake Terrace actually) for about 10 years while I was growing up - he's 15 yrs. older than I am - and as soon as I was old enough to drive, I started making the I-5 fun run as I called it to his house a couple weekends a month. Doing so obviously took me through Portland which I absolutely fell in love with! It's so freaking beautiful there and will probably be moving there in the next 2-3 years. My bother eventually moved to Yakima (Selah) for a couple of years before leaving Wash altogether a few years ago.

Don't get me started on healthcare and illegals!


So back to the question, does anyone know anything on how long it took to make TBF...