MR

I know I will get killed for this (if anybody even bothers to read the thread), but after reading on another thread about somebody saying that Journey wouldn't get any traction with young people today unless they re-recorded "Don't Stop Believing" with a rapper, I had an idea. I know it won't happen, but what if the band re-recorded "Don't Stop Believing" as a duet with a country singer like Jennifer Nettles or Taylor Swift. Current country is more like melodic rock than anything these days, and I think you get a lot of fans who like classic rock and country. Kid Rock has made a career of mixing country, classic rock, and rap. He gets played on top 40, country, and active rock stations.

Here would be my plan. You take the backing track of DSB they recorded for the Revelation disc. You get Nettles or Swift or another female country or R&B singer. Have them trade off vocals with Arnel. For promotion, you shoot a live video performance of the guest with the band and use the studio track for the audio. See if Azoff can earn his money by getting the band on an awards show to perform it with the guest. Sell it as a download, CD single, and/or give it away with purchase of Eclipse at Walmart.

Greg

well, of course, my reply to this is If you can see how you imagine your life You want to dream now and you know that anything is possible. You don't need a miracle, believe that anything is possible.

I mean... duh.

You know, bands like One Republic are probably today's answer to 80's bands like Toto or Tears for Fears. I enjoyed what they did with Timberland on their song Apologize. Like it or not, the hip hop beats are what's popular today. Even though this is not the style of music most of us like or appreciate, it is what's popular. If an 80's band wants to break from being known as an 80's band, they need to take chances like this.

Of course, then again, that's probably what Journey was doing with Raised on Radio in '86, and we know how divided the fan base is on that album. So, I'm sure doing something like being paired with a country music star or Timberland would go against what the fan base would want. Remember, Def Leppard tried the country music star thing with Nine Lives. It didn't exactly turn heads although it got minimal air time.

Greg wrote:You know, bands like One Republic are probably today's answer to 80's bands like Toto or Tears for Fears. I enjoyed what they did with Timberland on their song Apologize. Like it or not, the hip hop beats are what's popular today. Even though this is not the style of music most of us like or appreciate, it is what's popular. If an 80's band wants to break from being known as an 80's band, they need to take chances like this.

Of course, then again, that's probably what Journey was doing with Raised on Radio in '86, and we know how divided the fan base is on that album. So, I'm sure doing something like being paired with a country music star or Timberland would go against what the fan base would want. Remember, Def Leppard tried the country music star thing with Nine Lives. It didn't exactly turn heads although it got minimal air time.

You know, I like that you brought up OneRepublic. The singer of that band is a very successful songwriter for artists across several formats. I guess I was thinking more in terms of an event to celebrate the album and not necessarily a legacy thing.Now that I think about it some more, Bon Jovi did this as well, so it would be bandwagon jumping a couple of years late. Even if there is no single, it still would be cool to see them team up with a current, hot, young singer for a live, televised appearance just as a nod to the 30th anniversary. It also couldn't hurt concert ticket sales.

Greg

yandtguy wrote:

Greg wrote:You know, bands like One Republic are probably today's answer to 80's bands like Toto or Tears for Fears. I enjoyed what they did with Timberland on their song Apologize. Like it or not, the hip hop beats are what's popular today. Even though this is not the style of music most of us like or appreciate, it is what's popular. If an 80's band wants to break from being known as an 80's band, they need to take chances like this.

Of course, then again, that's probably what Journey was doing with Raised on Radio in '86, and we know how divided the fan base is on that album. So, I'm sure doing something like being paired with a country music star or Timberland would go against what the fan base would want. Remember, Def Leppard tried the country music star thing with Nine Lives. It didn't exactly turn heads although it got minimal air time.

You know, I like that you brought up OneRepublic. The singer of that band is a very successful songwriter for artists across several formats. I guess I was thinking more in terms of an event to celebrate the album and not necessarily a legacy thing.Now that I think about it some more, Bon Jovi did this as well, so it would be bandwagon jumping a couple of years late. Even if there is no single, it still would be cool to see them team up with a current, hot, young singer for a live, televised appearance just as a nod to the 30th anniversary. It also couldn't hurt concert ticket sales.

Greg

Maybe have a tribute to Journey with the popular top 40 stars of today. That would sell like crazy. They could do the dirty dozen. Remix the songs or whatever. I think Perry would probably freak out, then again, he has a very eclectic taste in music, so he might be willing to allow this to happen.

Besides the Sunday morning show on CBS, Jon says the band has no plans regarding doing anything specific to celebrate Escape's 30th anniversary.
Come hell or high water, the next two years are dedicated to promoting Eclipse.

Don wrote:Besides the Sunday morning show on CBS, Jon says the band has no plans regarding doing anything specific to celebrate Escape's 30th anniversary.
Come hell or high water, the next two years are dedicated to promoting Eclipse.

I commend them for that as well.. They will still be around for the 40th anyway!

youkeepmewaiting wrote:

Don wrote:Besides the Sunday morning show on CBS, Jon says the band has no plans regarding doing anything specific to celebrate Escape's 30th anniversary.
Come hell or high water, the next two years are dedicated to promoting Eclipse.

I commend them for that as well.. They will still be around for the 40th anyway!

Agreed. If they just wanted to be satisfied with past accomplishments then there would be no reason to continue. They can go home and sit on the porch and go golf on Saturday mornings or whatever other pursuits they like to do but these guys are musicians and playing is what they obviously love to do or they wouldn't keep doing it. So they set new goals and keep moving forward to keep their love for music alive. To creative artist types, their work is not a job ...its a part of them that they are driven to express. The bonus just comes when they find a way to make money from their passion which helps them continue but even if they didn't make any money, they would still play somewhere.

Blueskies wrote:

youkeepmewaiting wrote:

Don wrote:Besides the Sunday morning show on CBS, Jon says the band has no plans regarding doing anything specific to celebrate Escape's 30th anniversary.
Come hell or high water, the next two years are dedicated to promoting Eclipse.

I commend them for that as well.. They will still be around for the 40th anyway!

Agreed. If they just wanted to be satisfied with past accomplishments then there would be no reason to continue. They can go home and sit on the porch and go golf on Saturday mornings or whatever other pursuits they like to do but these guys are musicians and playing is what they obviously love to do or they wouldn't keep doing it. So they set new goals and keep moving forward to keep their love for music alive. To creative artist types its not a job ...its a part of them that they are driven to express.

I can tell you that if Eclipse doesn't at least quadruple its current sales total in the next year this band won't be around for Escape's 40th anniversary. They might putter around, singing the dirty dozen for a few more years but no major distributor will bankroll another album project with them.
Yeah, i know, that's been said before no other incarnation of the band post Perry had the tremendous wave of promotion that DSB brought to the band the last two years. For an album to flop after all of that hoopla will kill investor confidence to no end. Piles of unsold discs do not bode well for any distributor.

Don wrote:

Blueskies wrote:

youkeepmewaiting wrote:

Don wrote:Besides the Sunday morning show on CBS, Jon says the band has no plans regarding doing anything specific to celebrate Escape's 30th anniversary.
Come hell or high water, the next two years are dedicated to promoting Eclipse.

I commend them for that as well.. They will still be around for the 40th anyway!

Agreed. If they just wanted to be satisfied with past accomplishments then there would be no reason to continue. They can go home and sit on the porch and go golf on Saturday mornings or whatever other pursuits they like to do but these guys are musicians and playing is what they obviously love to do or they wouldn't keep doing it. So they set new goals and keep moving forward to keep their love for music alive. To creative artist types its not a job ...its a part of them that they are driven to express.

I can tell you that if Eclipse doesn't at least quadruple its current sales total in the next year this band won't be around for Escape's 40th anniversary. They might putter around, singing the dirty dozen for a few more years but no major distributor will bankroll another album project with them.

I was editing my post to add another thought on just that before you posted. Read above.

I'm beginning to think we might see ole SP in a couple of years if this incarnation sputters(which they are already doing). A farewell tour would rake in the ducats...all parties would be set for life, and there kids' kids too....do underestimate it.

[quote="Don"]Besides the Sunday morning show on CBS, Jon says the band has no plans regarding doing anything specific to celebrate Escape's 30th anniversary.
Come hell or high water, the next two years are dedicated to promoting Eclipse.[/quote

LOL...what morons. You promote the album BEFORE it's released, not after.

Don wrote:

Blueskies wrote:

youkeepmewaiting wrote:

Don wrote:Besides the Sunday morning show on CBS, Jon says the band has no plans regarding doing anything specific to celebrate Escape's 30th anniversary.
Come hell or high water, the next two years are dedicated to promoting Eclipse.

I commend them for that as well.. They will still be around for the 40th anyway!

Agreed. If they just wanted to be satisfied with past accomplishments then there would be no reason to continue. They can go home and sit on the porch and go golf on Saturday mornings or whatever other pursuits they like to do but these guys are musicians and playing is what they obviously love to do or they wouldn't keep doing it. So they set new goals and keep moving forward to keep their love for music alive. To creative artist types its not a job ...its a part of them that they are driven to express.

I can tell you that if Eclipse doesn't at least quadruple its current sales total in the next year this band won't be around for Escape's 40th anniversary. They might putter around, singing the dirty dozen for a few more years but no major distributor will bankroll another album project with them.
Yeah, i know, that's been said before no other incarnation of the band post Perry had the tremendous wave of promotion that DSB brought to the band the last two years. For an album to flop after all of that hoopla will kill investor confidence to no end. Piles of unsold discs do not bode well for any distributor.

Absolutely true. This is Journey's last studio album.

S2M wrote:I'm beginning to think we might see ole SP in a couple of years if this incarnation sputters(which they are already doing). A farewell tour would rake in the ducats...all parties would be set for life, and there kids' kids too....do underestimate it.

Selling out shows all over the world is definitely sputtering, ant brain.

steveo777 wrote:

S2M wrote:I'm beginning to think we might see ole SP in a couple of years if this incarnation sputters(which they are already doing). A farewell tour would rake in the ducats...all parties would be set for life, and there kids' kids too....do underestimate it.

Selling out shows all over the world is definitely sputtering, ant brain.

Thanks for the compliment.

Dude, you are delusional. The wheels are about to fall off. They(and you) may need Bionics before too long. Better get Rudy Wells on the horn....

S2M wrote:

steveo777 wrote:

S2M wrote:I'm beginning to think we might see ole SP in a couple of years if this incarnation sputters(which they are already doing). A farewell tour would rake in the ducats...all parties would be set for life, and there kids' kids too....do underestimate it.

Selling out shows all over the world is definitely sputtering, ant brain.

Thanks for the compliment.

Dude, you are delusional. The wheels are about to fall off. They(and you) may need Bionics before too long. Better get Rudy Wells on the horn....

Dude, Journey just toured the biggest arenas in England, they are not going anywhere

Monker wrote:

Don wrote:

Blueskies wrote:

youkeepmewaiting wrote:

Don wrote:Besides the Sunday morning show on CBS, Jon says the band has no plans regarding doing anything specific to celebrate Escape's 30th anniversary.
Come hell or high water, the next two years are dedicated to promoting Eclipse.

I commend them for that as well.. They will still be around for the 40th anyway!

Agreed. If they just wanted to be satisfied with past accomplishments then there would be no reason to continue. They can go home and sit on the porch and go golf on Saturday mornings or whatever other pursuits they like to do but these guys are musicians and playing is what they obviously love to do or they wouldn't keep doing it. So they set new goals and keep moving forward to keep their love for music alive. To creative artist types its not a job ...its a part of them that they are driven to express.

I can tell you that if Eclipse doesn't at least quadruple its current sales total in the next year this band won't be around for Escape's 40th anniversary. They might putter around, singing the dirty dozen for a few more years but no major distributor will bankroll another album project with them.
Yeah, i know, that's been said before no other incarnation of the band post Perry had the tremendous wave of promotion that DSB brought to the band the last two years. For an album to flop after all of that hoopla will kill investor confidence to no end. Piles of unsold discs do not bode well for any distributor.

Absolutely true. This is Journey's last studio album.

Okay, gypsy fortune teller, if that's what your clairvoyant visions tell you. Really, who knows what tomorrow brings? Anyway...if they couldn't continue playing to the big crowds tomorrow at least they would go out having fun, doing what they love to do. And like I said, they would continue to play anyway, somewhere. Smaller venues, a friends cookout in their backyard...somewhere. Heck, even SP couldn't completely stop himself as evidenced in showing up to a few friends recording sessions and doing a bit of background vocals here and there through the years. He may not have spent the last many years singing for the public and trying to make money from it but he most likely has continued to be creative writing music at home and has probably been supportive of younger artists just starting out in quiet ways on occasion. Not everything is about money and fame all of the time with everyone. If they never make another dime off of it, the music will still be in them to do in some way by doing it themselves or in supporting others and most likely both.

Again, I have to say...while some may be stuck on numbers and base that as their opinion that this album is a flop...I don't see it as a flop at all. Its an artistic achievement in my ears. and many others who have heard it. I can paint something that is only seen by few and feel I achieved what I tried to convey if only a few like it. Some of y'all are only looking at a big scale measurement of what is successful in your eyes only. This genre of music isn't the most popular in the mainstream and hasn't been for a long time....but that doesn't mean artists of this genre aren't having success's, they are,...just at a different scale then the genre had in the past and many still having some success during trying times... so measurements of "success" should be adjusted accordingly.

youkeepmewaiting wrote:

S2M wrote:

steveo777 wrote:

S2M wrote:I'm beginning to think we might see ole SP in a couple of years if this incarnation sputters(which they are already doing). A farewell tour would rake in the ducats...all parties would be set for life, and there kids' kids too....do underestimate it.

Selling out shows all over the world is definitely sputtering, ant brain.

Thanks for the compliment.

Dude, you are delusional. The wheels are about to fall off. They(and you) may need Bionics before too long. Better get Rudy Wells on the horn....

Dude, Journey just toured the biggest arenas in England, they are not going anywhere[/quote

So, they are staying in England and not leaving to see how they can sell in the US?

Blueskies wrote:Again, I have to say...while some may be stuck on numbers and base that as their opinion that this album is a flop...I don't see it as a flop at all. Its an artistic achievement in my ears. and many others who have heard it. I can paint something that is only seen by few and feel I achieved what I tried to convey if only a few like it. Some of y'all are only looking at a big scale measurement of what is successful in your eyes only. This genre of music isn't the most popular in the mainstream and hasn't been for a long time....but that doesn't mean artists of this genre aren't having success's, they are,...just at a different scale then the genre had in the past and many still having some success during trying times... so measurements of "success" should be adjusted accordingly.

Is your art mass produced? I didn't think so. Apples and Oranges.

S2M wrote:

Blueskies wrote:Again, I have to say...while some may be stuck on numbers and base that as their opinion that this album is a flop...I don't see it as a flop at all. Its an artistic achievement in my ears. and many others who have heard it. I can paint something that is only seen by few and feel I achieved what I tried to convey if only a few like it. Some of y'all are only looking at a big scale measurement of what is successful in your eyes only. This genre of music isn't the most popular in the mainstream and hasn't been for a long time....but that doesn't mean artists of this genre aren't having success's, they are,...just at a different scale then the genre had in the past and many still having some success during trying times... so measurements of "success" should be adjusted accordingly.

Is your art mass produced? I didn't think so. Apples and Oranges.

If I made prints of the originals, it would be.

Blueskies wrote:

Monker wrote:

Don wrote:

Blueskies wrote:

youkeepmewaiting wrote:

Don wrote:Besides the Sunday morning show on CBS, Jon says the band has no plans regarding doing anything specific to celebrate Escape's 30th anniversary.
Come hell or high water, the next two years are dedicated to promoting Eclipse.

I commend them for that as well.. They will still be around for the 40th anyway!

Agreed. If they just wanted to be satisfied with past accomplishments then there would be no reason to continue. They can go home and sit on the porch and go golf on Saturday mornings or whatever other pursuits they like to do but these guys are musicians and playing is what they obviously love to do or they wouldn't keep doing it. So they set new goals and keep moving forward to keep their love for music alive. To creative artist types its not a job ...its a part of them that they are driven to express.

I can tell you that if Eclipse doesn't at least quadruple its current sales total in the next year this band won't be around for Escape's 40th anniversary. They might putter around, singing the dirty dozen for a few more years but no major distributor will bankroll another album project with them.
Yeah, i know, that's been said before no other incarnation of the band post Perry had the tremendous wave of promotion that DSB brought to the band the last two years. For an album to flop after all of that hoopla will kill investor confidence to no end. Piles of unsold discs do not bode well for any distributor.

Absolutely true. This is Journey's last studio album.

Okay, gypsy fortune teller, if that's what your clairvoyant visions tell you. Really, who knows what tomorrow brings? Anyway...if they couldn't continue playing to the big crowds tomorrow at least they would go out having fun, doing what they love to do. And like I said, they would continue to play anyway, somewhere. Smaller venues, a friends cookout in their backyard...somewhere. Heck, even SP couldn't completely stop himself as evidenced in showing up to a few friends recording sessions and doing a bit of background vocals here and there through the years. He may not have spent the last many years singing for the public and trying to make money from it but he most likely has continued to be creative writing music at home and has probably been supportive of younger artists just starting out in quiet ways on occasion. Not everything is about money and fame all of the time with everyone. If they never make another dime off of it, the music will still be in them to do in some way by doing it themselves or in supporting others and most likely both.

I didn't say they would stop touring.

Journey will tour as long as Neal wants to.

But, they will never record a studio album ever again. No meaningful label would ever release it. And, they've done the self publishing thing before and it seems they didn't like the results (Red13). Journey is now out of options and have NO WHERE to go. Eclipse was a make or break album - and now Journey is broke. Just like Perry's voice.

As far as SP, after hearing "I Stand Alone" in a preview for "Quest For Camelot"...I have said that he will never tour again. his voice just won't take it. I have also NEVER believed the 'rumors' of a new album that float around every other day. The guy just doesn't have much of a voice left.

Journey and SP are in different situations and comparing them is really kinda silly, IMO.

Blueskies wrote:Again, I have to say...while some may be stuck on numbers and base that as their opinion that this album is a flop...I don't see it as a flop at all. Its an artistic achievement in my ears. and many others who have heard it. I can paint something that is only seen by few and feel I achieved what I tried to convey if only a few like it. Some of y'all are only looking at a big scale measurement of what is successful in your eyes only. This genre of music isn't the most popular in the mainstream and hasn't been for a long time....but that doesn't mean artists of this genre aren't having success's, they are,...just at a different scale then the genre had in the past and many still having some success during trying times... so measurements of "success" should be adjusted accordingly.

I thought Extreme's "III Sides to Every Story" was also an incredible artistic achievement and also had some great song...but, since sales sucked, and who knows what else, it was their last album.

Eclipse is a good album an d has some very good songs. The issue is when Journey wants to release another new album and they go looking for a label, the label doesn't care how good it is...they want to know how well it sold how much money it made. In fact, if Eclipse is the best Journey album ever made, all that means is that nobody wants to buy Journey albums even when they are at their best. No label is going to sign a band who can't make them money. that's just how it goes.

Blueskies wrote:

S2M wrote:

Blueskies wrote:Again, I have to say...while some may be stuck on numbers and base that as their opinion that this album is a flop...I don't see it as a flop at all. Its an artistic achievement in my ears. and many others who have heard it. I can paint something that is only seen by few and feel I achieved what I tried to convey if only a few like it. Some of y'all are only looking at a big scale measurement of what is successful in your eyes only. This genre of music isn't the most popular in the mainstream and hasn't been for a long time....but that doesn't mean artists of this genre aren't having success's, they are,...just at a different scale then the genre had in the past and many still having some success during trying times... so measurements of "success" should be adjusted accordingly.

Is your art mass produced? I didn't think so. Apples and Oranges.

If I made prints of the originals, it would be.

That's now how it works. Somebody would buy the rights to make prints of the originals and then sell them. If they bought the rights and thought they would sell 500,000 copies at $10, but only sold 100,000...and the result was a huge loss...I doubt they would ever make a deal to distribute your art again.

Monker wrote:

Blueskies wrote:

Monker wrote:

Don wrote:

Blueskies wrote:

youkeepmewaiting wrote:

Don wrote:Besides the Sunday morning show on CBS, Jon says the band has no plans regarding doing anything specific to celebrate Escape's 30th anniversary.
Come hell or high water, the next two years are dedicated to promoting Eclipse.

I commend them for that as well.. They will still be around for the 40th anyway!

Agreed. If they just wanted to be satisfied with past accomplishments then there would be no reason to continue. They can go home and sit on the porch and go golf on Saturday mornings or whatever other pursuits they like to do but these guys are musicians and playing is what they obviously love to do or they wouldn't keep doing it. So they set new goals and keep moving forward to keep their love for music alive. To creative artist types its not a job ...its a part of them that they are driven to express.

I can tell you that if Eclipse doesn't at least quadruple its current sales total in the next year this band won't be around for Escape's 40th anniversary. They might putter around, singing the dirty dozen for a few more years but no major distributor will bankroll another album project with them.
Yeah, i know, that's been said before no other incarnation of the band post Perry had the tremendous wave of promotion that DSB brought to the band the last two years. For an album to flop after all of that hoopla will kill investor confidence to no end. Piles of unsold discs do not bode well for any distributor.

Absolutely true. This is Journey's last studio album.

Okay, gypsy fortune teller, if that's what your clairvoyant visions tell you. Really, who knows what tomorrow brings? Anyway...if they couldn't continue playing to the big crowds tomorrow at least they would go out having fun, doing what they love to do. And like I said, they would continue to play anyway, somewhere. Smaller venues, a friends cookout in their backyard...somewhere. Heck, even SP couldn't completely stop himself as evidenced in showing up to a few friends recording sessions and doing a bit of background vocals here and there through the years. He may not have spent the last many years singing for the public and trying to make money from it but he most likely has continued to be creative writing music at home and has probably been supportive of younger artists just starting out in quiet ways on occasion. Not everything is about money and fame all of the time with everyone. If they never make another dime off of it, the music will still be in them to do in some way by doing it themselves or in supporting others and most likely both.

I didn't say they would stop touring.

Journey will tour as long as Neal wants to.

But, they will never record a studio album ever again. No meaningful label would ever release it. And, they've done the self publishing thing before and it seems they didn't like the results (Red13). Journey is now out of options and have NO WHERE to go. Eclipse was a make or break album - and now Journey is broke. Just like Perry's voice.

As far as SP, after hearing "I Stand Alone" in a preview for "Quest For Camelot"...I have said that he will never tour again. his voice just won't take it. I have also NEVER believed the 'rumors' of a new album that float around every other day. The guy just doesn't have much of a voice left.

Journey and SP are in different situations and comparing them is really kinda silly, IMO.

If you review my posts from that last few days, you will see a couple speaking of SP and saying I doubted we ( the public) would hear him sing in public again.
But unlike you, I use the word doubt and never say never.....because I don't think I have any clairvoyant superpowers like you seem to think you have. Seriously, I agree there are strong likelyhoods of something happening in life one way or another, but I have been surprised before when something occurs that I didn't think would, so I never say never about anything.

Monker wrote:

Blueskies wrote:

S2M wrote:

Blueskies wrote:Again, I have to say...while some may be stuck on numbers and base that as their opinion that this album is a flop...I don't see it as a flop at all. Its an artistic achievement in my ears. and many others who have heard it. I can paint something that is only seen by few and feel I achieved what I tried to convey if only a few like it. Some of y'all are only looking at a big scale measurement of what is successful in your eyes only. This genre of music isn't the most popular in the mainstream and hasn't been for a long time....but that doesn't mean artists of this genre aren't having success's, they are,...just at a different scale then the genre had in the past and many still having some success during trying times... so measurements of "success" should be adjusted accordingly.

Is your art mass produced? I didn't think so. Apples and Oranges.

If I made prints of the originals, it would be.

That's now how it works. Somebody would buy the rights to make prints of the originals and then sell them. If they bought the rights and thought they would sell 500,000 copies at $10, but only sold 100,000...and the result was a huge loss...I doubt they would ever make a deal to distribute your art again.

I don't mass distribute my art, I don't even make any prints at all of the originals at this point in time. If I did start making prints I would not sell the rights to someone else. I would pay a printer of course, but I would retain my copyright. I could also print them myself.

Anyway, I completely understand what you are talking about as I have just spoken to some of it. I know how it all works. You aren't getting what I mean though in how one chooses to measure success with something they've done. Oh, and you may not be aware of it but most artists have a private collection of some of their work. Some things they may keep to themselves....not because they feel it isn't good in all cases...but often it's a piece(s) that is meaningful to them in some way and they don't want to put up for sale. Therefore it has a value other than money to them and more than money and they measure the success of the piece in a whole different way. With that said...if the work put out is liked by one other person as well as the creator, it is a success if the artist is looking for approval. If they expose the piece to more and more like it then thats further approval. Depends on how much the artist wants and is expecting. To you the album is not a success if it doesn't meet your measurement of success. Measurements vary depending on who is looking at them and success can be defined in different ways.

Blueskies wrote:

Monker wrote:

Blueskies wrote:

S2M wrote:

Blueskies wrote:Again, I have to say...while some may be stuck on numbers and base that as their opinion that this album is a flop...I don't see it as a flop at all. Its an artistic achievement in my ears. and many others who have heard it. I can paint something that is only seen by few and feel I achieved what I tried to convey if only a few like it. Some of y'all are only looking at a big scale measurement of what is successful in your eyes only. This genre of music isn't the most popular in the mainstream and hasn't been for a long time....but that doesn't mean artists of this genre aren't having success's, they are,...just at a different scale then the genre had in the past and many still having some success during trying times... so measurements of "success" should be adjusted accordingly.

Is your art mass produced? I didn't think so. Apples and Oranges.

If I made prints of the originals, it would be.

That's now how it works. Somebody would buy the rights to make prints of the originals and then sell them. If they bought the rights and thought they would sell 500,000 copies at $10, but only sold 100,000...and the result was a huge loss...I doubt they would ever make a deal to distribute your art again.

I don't mass distribute my art, I don't even make any prints at all of the originals at this point in time. If I did start making prints I would not sell the rights to someone else. I would pay a printer of course, but I would retain my copyright. I could also print them myself.

Anyway, I completely understand what you are talking about as I have just spoken to some of it. I know how it all works. You aren't getting what I mean though in how one chooses to measure success with something they've done. Oh, and you may not be aware of it but most artists have a private collection of some of their work. Some things they may keep to themselves....not because they feel it isn't good in all cases...but often it's a piece(s) that is meaningful to them in some way and they don't want to put up for sale. Therefore it has a value other than money to them and more than money and they measure the success of the piece in a whole different way. With that said...if the work put out is liked by one other person as well as the creator, it is a success if the artist is looking for approval. If they expose the piece to more and more like it then thats further approval. Depends on how much the artist wants and is expecting. To you the album is not a success if it doesn't meet your measurement of success. Measurements vary depending on who is looking at them and success can be defined in different ways.

Someone who invests their money in a project measures "success" by the return they receive on the investment... meaning profit.

That is what Don meant. And its what JC meant when he even said they only reason they got to do Eclipse was the success of Revelation.... so either they intentionally jumped the shark or this is an unintentional commercial flop...

slucero wrote:

Blueskies wrote:

Monker wrote:

Blueskies wrote:

S2M wrote:

Blueskies wrote:Again, I have to say...while some may be stuck on numbers and base that as their opinion that this album is a flop...I don't see it as a flop at all. Its an artistic achievement in my ears. and many others who have heard it. I can paint something that is only seen by few and feel I achieved what I tried to convey if only a few like it. Some of y'all are only looking at a big scale measurement of what is successful in your eyes only. This genre of music isn't the most popular in the mainstream and hasn't been for a long time....but that doesn't mean artists of this genre aren't having success's, they are,...just at a different scale then the genre had in the past and many still having some success during trying times... so measurements of "success" should be adjusted accordingly.

Is your art mass produced? I didn't think so. Apples and Oranges.

If I made prints of the originals, it would be.

That's now how it works. Somebody would buy the rights to make prints of the originals and then sell them. If they bought the rights and thought they would sell 500,000 copies at $10, but only sold 100,000...and the result was a huge loss...I doubt they would ever make a deal to distribute your art again.

I don't mass distribute my art, I don't even make any prints at all of the originals at this point in time. If I did start making prints I would not sell the rights to someone else. I would pay a printer of course, but I would retain my copyright. I could also print them myself.

Anyway, I completely understand what you are talking about as I have just spoken to some of it. I know how it all works. You aren't getting what I mean though in how one chooses to measure success with something they've done. Oh, and you may not be aware of it but most artists have a private collection of some of their work. Some things they may keep to themselves....not because they feel it isn't good in all cases...but often it's a piece(s) that is meaningful to them in some way and they don't want to put up for sale. Therefore it has a value other than money to them and more than money and they measure the success of the piece in a whole different way. With that said...if the work put out is liked by one other person as well as the creator, it is a success if the artist is looking for approval. If they expose the piece to more and more like it then thats further approval. Depends on how much the artist wants and is expecting. To you the album is not a success if it doesn't meet your measurement of success. Measurements vary depending on who is looking at them and success can be defined in different ways.

Someone who invests their money in a project measures "success" by the return they receive on the investment... meaning profit.

That is what Don meant. And its what JC meant when he even said they only reason they got to do Eclipse was the success of Revelation.... so either they intentionally jumped the shark or this is an unintentional commercial flop...

I think they just went into it with the mindset of making an album the way they wanted to, by going back to some roots, the foundation records ( the stone, in Perry's words) and bringing that sound and style back in to the music and saying what they wanted to say and just put it out and see how it would do without spending tons in advance to try to sell it, therefore spending whatever profits generated or even more. Obviously there was not a plan in place other then to release it and tour, initially, but Andrew stated that there will be more promotion forthcoming for both the album and the US leg of the tour. If that's true or not, then time will tell. If so, then obviously all party's must have decided to spend some money after all so someone(s) must feel it worthwhile to do so. I was only making the point previously that there are different measurements of success artistically. I'm sure they also, and most especially Irving Azoff, have the bottom line in terms of money as a measurement. As a fan, though, my measurement of success is in my ears alone.

Monker wrote:
Absolutely true. This is Journey's last studio album.

Utter rubbish.

Monker wrote:
I thought Extreme's "III Sides to Every Story" was also an incredible artistic achievement and also had some great song...but, since sales sucked, and who knows what else, it was their last album.

No it wasn't.