MR

I LOVE Tantra so no one is allowed to mention in this thread that they don't like it it's not what it is about.

But at the end of the song (before the very end Piano bit where it repeats the beginning of the song) Arnel sings (5.33-5.40secs ish )"Tantra watch over meeeeeeeee" .... is it just me or is he just completely out of breathe and really straining ?

I picked up on it the first time I listened I just havnt bothered to post about it.

I understand that he probably was knackered by that point in the song but wouldnt you have thought they would have taken 5 minutes to just redo that one line? Especially when the rest of the vocals in that song are #tremendous!



It's not a BIG deal but it does bug me whenever I hear it as I love the song

youkeepmewaiting wrote:I LOVE Tantra so no one is allowed to mention in this thread that they don't like it it's not what it is about.

But at the end of the song (before the very end Piano bit where it repeats the beginning of the song) Arnel sings (5.33-5.40secs ish )"Tantra watch over meeeeeeeee" .... is it just me or is he just completely out of breathe and really straining ?

I picked up on it the first time I listened I just havnt bothered to post about it.

I understand that he probably was knackered by that point in the song but wouldnt you have thought they would have taken 5 minutes to just redo that one line? Especially when the rest of the vocals in that song are #tremendous!



It's not a BIG deal but it does bug me whenever I hear it as I love the song

If Perry had done the same thing, it would have appauded as emotion, intentionally conveyed desperation to punctuate his plea. Arnel will not get the same sympathy. I don't really see anything wrong with the line as it is.

NoMoreTails wrote:

youkeepmewaiting wrote:I LOVE Tantra so no one is allowed to mention in this thread that they don't like it it's not what it is about.

But at the end of the song (before the very end Piano bit where it repeats the beginning of the song) Arnel sings (5.33-5.40secs ish )"Tantra watch over meeeeeeeee" .... is it just me or is he just completely out of breathe and really straining ?

I picked up on it the first time I listened I just havnt bothered to post about it.

I understand that he probably was knackered by that point in the song but wouldnt you have thought they would have taken 5 minutes to just redo that one line? Especially when the rest of the vocals in that song are #tremendous!



It's not a BIG deal but it does bug me whenever I hear it as I love the song

If Perry had done the same thing, it would have appauded as emotion, intentionally conveyed desperation to punctuate his plea. Arnel will not get the same sympathy. I don't really see anything wrong with the line as it is.

NoMoreTails wrote:

youkeepmewaiting wrote:I LOVE Tantra so no one is allowed to mention in this thread that they don't like it it's not what it is about.

But at the end of the song (before the very end Piano bit where it repeats the beginning of the song) Arnel sings (5.33-5.40secs ish )"Tantra watch over meeeeeeeee" .... is it just me or is he just completely out of breathe and really straining ?

I picked up on it the first time I listened I just havnt bothered to post about it.

I understand that he probably was knackered by that point in the song but wouldnt you have thought they would have taken 5 minutes to just redo that one line? Especially when the rest of the vocals in that song are #tremendous!



It's not a BIG deal but it does bug me whenever I hear it as I love the song

If Perry had done the same thing, it would have appauded as emotion, intentionally conveyed desperation to punctuate his plea. Arnel will not get the same sympathy. I don't really see anything wrong with the line as it is.

I love Arnel. But that line is definitely dodgy. I'm nit-picking I know, but that's what we do!

youkeepmewaiting wrote:
But at the end of the song (before the very end Piano bit where it repeats the beginning of the song) Arnel sings (5.33-5.40secs ish )"Tantra watch over meeeeeeeee" .... is it just me or is he just completely out of breathe and really straining ?

I got this from the guy, David Kalmusky, that mixed the album when I asked a similar question. And I loved his answer:

This record, is as human as you can possibly make a record these days, and if we put it under the microscope, there are lots of pick noises, moments where it might rush a bit, and lay back a bit, Arnel's vocal may crack a little, or fall naturally off Pitch... It's part of the experience the Band, and Kevin want you to have with this record. to really hear these guys, and their musicianship. Like a concert, or an experience...It's full of alot of really cool "Honest" musical moments, that really show you just how great these guys are. There's nothing "Clinical" about this record, So... it's not bound to be "Perfect".

Saint John wrote:

youkeepmewaiting wrote:
But at the end of the song (before the very end Piano bit where it repeats the beginning of the song) Arnel sings (5.33-5.40secs ish )"Tantra watch over meeeeeeeee" .... is it just me or is he just completely out of breathe and really straining ?

I got this from the guy, David Kalmusky, that mixed the album when I asked a similar question. And I loved his answer:

This record, is as human as you can possibly make a record these days, and if we put it under the microscope, there are lots of pick noises, moments where it might rush a bit, and lay back a bit, Arnel's vocal may crack a little, or fall naturally off Pitch... It's part of the experience the Band, and Kevin want you to have with this record. to really hear these guys, and their musicianship. Like a concert, or an experience...It's full of alot of really cool "Honest" musical moments, that really show you just how great these guys are. There's nothing "Clinical" about this record, So... it's not bound to be "Perfect".

People who want auto tuned, protooled, phony perfection ain't gonna get that here. I agree with what Kalmusky said.

Saint John wrote:

youkeepmewaiting wrote:
But at the end of the song (before the very end Piano bit where it repeats the beginning of the song) Arnel sings (5.33-5.40secs ish )"Tantra watch over meeeeeeeee" .... is it just me or is he just completely out of breathe and really straining ?

I got this from the guy, David Kalmusky, that mixed the album when I asked a similar question. And I loved his answer:

This record, is as human as you can possibly make a record these days, and if we put it under the microscope, there are lots of pick noises, moments where it might rush a bit, and lay back a bit, Arnel's vocal may crack a little, or fall naturally off Pitch... It's part of the experience the Band, and Kevin want you to have with this record. to really hear these guys, and their musicianship. Like a concert, or an experience...It's full of alot of really cool "Honest" musical moments, that really show you just how great these guys are. There's nothing "Clinical" about this record, So... it's not bound to be "Perfect".

Fair enough I like that answer. I've not heard any other littles cracks though I don't think which is why it confused me, but I'm sure I'll try and look out for them now aha

Saint John wrote:

youkeepmewaiting wrote:
But at the end of the song (before the very end Piano bit where it repeats the beginning of the song) Arnel sings (5.33-5.40secs ish )"Tantra watch over meeeeeeeee" .... is it just me or is he just completely out of breathe and really straining ?

I got this from the guy, David Kalmusky, that mixed the album when I asked a similar question. And I loved his answer:

This record, is as human as you can possibly make a record these days, and if we put it under the microscope, there are lots of pick noises, moments where it might rush a bit, and lay back a bit, Arnel's vocal may crack a little, or fall naturally off Pitch... It's part of the experience the Band, and Kevin want you to have with this record. to really hear these guys, and their musicianship. Like a concert, or an experience...It's full of alot of really cool "Honest" musical moments, that really show you just how great these guys are. There's nothing "Clinical" about this record, So... it's not bound to be "Perfect".

Cool, it would be interesting to hear more of his insight to the process.

Saint John wrote:

youkeepmewaiting wrote:
But at the end of the song (before the very end Piano bit where it repeats the beginning of the song) Arnel sings (5.33-5.40secs ish )"Tantra watch over meeeeeeeee" .... is it just me or is he just completely out of breathe and really straining ?

I got this from the guy, David Kalmusky, that mixed the album when I asked a similar question. And I loved his answer:

This record, is as human as you can possibly make a record these days, and if we put it under the microscope, there are lots of pick noises, moments where it might rush a bit, and lay back a bit, Arnel's vocal may crack a little, or fall naturally off Pitch... It's part of the experience the Band, and Kevin want you to have with this record. to really hear these guys, and their musicianship. Like a concert, or an experience...It's full of alot of really cool "Honest" musical moments, that really show you just how great these guys are. There's nothing "Clinical" about this record, So... it's not bound to be "Perfect".

Like his answer. Nice diplomacy in the bolded statement above. I think they need to continue to work with this gentleman in the future.

I think that's crap. There's a reason bands do studio albums. Not allowing Arnel to punch in and sing the line again, if it sounds bad (couldn't tell you 'cause I don't care for the song and don't feel like listening to it), is just stupidity. It also sounds lazy and unprofessional. If you want spontaneity, do a "live in the studio" CD as a bonus disc. I think the band just wanted to get the album done quickly. They didn't want to wait for the Caveman to finish the CD, and according to him, there was tension anyway, so I guess a quick process was needed to get the band out of the studio and back on the road.

yandtguy wrote:I think that's crap. There's a reason bands do studio albums. Not allowing Arnel to punch in and sing the line again, if it sounds bad (couldn't tell you 'cause I don't care for the song and don't feel like listening to it), is just stupidity. It also sounds lazy and unprofessional. If you want spontaneity, do a "live in the studio" CD as a bonus disc. I think the band just wanted to get the album done quickly. They didn't want to wait for the Caveman to finish the CD, and according to him, their was tension anyway, so I guess a quick process was needed to get the band out of the studio and back on the road.

You know Cain's reluctance to fix it was his probably thinking, "Who the hell cares if the line's messed up, no one's going to buy it anyway."

yandtguy wrote:I think that's crap. There's a reason bands do studio albums. Not allowing Arnel to punch in and sing the line again, if it sounds bad (couldn't tell you 'cause I don't care for the song and don't feel like listening to it), is just stupidity. It also sounds lazy and unprofessional. If you want spontaneity, do a "live in the studio" CD as a bonus disc. I think the band just wanted to get the album done quickly. They didn't want to wait for the Caveman to finish the CD, and according to him, their was tension anyway, so I guess a quick process was needed to get the band out of the studio and back on the road.

I disagree. Studio album doesn't equal antiseptic perfectionism. This was always my biggest issue with the scrubbed-to-death sound of ROR...still my least favorite Journey album of all time (even pre-Perry).

My favorite classic "Rock God" studio albums, including some by the Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, and The Who, all have "mistakes" in them and yet they blow away 99% of the sanitized and soulless music that some of the studio jockeys put out today.

The studio polish is something that contemporary tastes demand so it is often an artistic concession to the demands of the listener and their auditory conditioning, but I think talking about it as if it were gospel and demand that every artist conform to it on every record is also a demand that an artist engage in the "studio sheen" as a kind of unthinking laziness and conformity in itself.

There's plenty of human moments on the album and I notice them too, but I'm not going to spotlight them for fear that it may ruin someone else's listening experience.

But for me, the closer it sounds to live and spontaneous, the more I like it.

But all the guitars are so perfectly tuned, polished, & layered.
Seems contradictory or a double standard.
Interesting.


later~

RedWingFan wrote:

yandtguy wrote:I think that's crap. There's a reason bands do studio albums. Not allowing Arnel to punch in and sing the line again, if it sounds bad (couldn't tell you 'cause I don't care for the song and don't feel like listening to it), is just stupidity. It also sounds lazy and unprofessional. If you want spontaneity, do a "live in the studio" CD as a bonus disc. I think the band just wanted to get the album done quickly. They didn't want to wait for the Caveman to finish the CD, and according to him, their was tension anyway, so I guess a quick process was needed to get the band out of the studio and back on the road.

You know Cain's reluctance to fix it was his probably thinking, "Who the hell cares if the line's messed up, no one's going to buy it anyway."

This made me laugh in my belly. And that doesn't happen often. True dat.

The main problem with Tantra is that it exists. Other than that, it's a fine track.

That song has grown on me a whole lot. I love it.

Seven Wishes wrote:The main problem with Tantra is that it exists. Other than that, it's a fine track.

Rick wrote:That song has grown on me a whole lot. I love it.

Man, I think it's their third or fourth best ballad ever, trailing only Faithfully, Still They Ride and possibly After The Fall.

Saint John wrote:

Rick wrote:That song has grown on me a whole lot. I love it.

Man, I think it's their third or fourth best ballad ever, trailing only Faithfully, Still They Ride and possibly After The Fall.

This is the correct answer folks. Fuck everyone else.

steveo777 wrote:

Saint John wrote:

Rick wrote:That song has grown on me a whole lot. I love it.

Man, I think it's their third or fourth best ballad ever, trailing only Faithfully, Still They Ride and possibly After The Fall.

This is the correct answer folks. Fuck everyone else.

Ditto to both of you.

One song that never gets any love that I love is "Easy To Fall".

Rick wrote:

steveo777 wrote:

Saint John wrote:

Rick wrote:That song has grown on me a whole lot. I love it.

Man, I think it's their third or fourth best ballad ever, trailing only Faithfully, Still They Ride and possibly After The Fall.

This is the correct answer folks. Fuck everyone else.

Ditto to both of you.

One song that never gets any love that I love is "Easy To Fall".

At least there were enough people that had a chance to hear that song simply by buying the album.

I'm not a fan of Tantra but Arnel does some of his best stuff on it and ultimately he is the one who suffers the most from this album not being marketed properly. Instead of being the album with the song that broke Pineda out of Perry's shadow, Eclipse is on course to be a promotional disaster and remembered as the record that broke the band's back at retail. This album could very well kill their relationship with Wal-Mart and be the last Journey record to see mass distribution.

Don wrote:

Rick wrote:

steveo777 wrote:

Saint John wrote:

Rick wrote:That song has grown on me a whole lot. I love it.

Man, I think it's their third or fourth best ballad ever, trailing only Faithfully, Still They Ride and possibly After The Fall.

This is the correct answer folks. Fuck everyone else.

Ditto to both of you.

One song that never gets any love that I love is "Easy To Fall".

At least there were enough people that had a chance to hear that song simply by buying the album.

I'm not a fan of Tantra but Arnel does some of his best stuff on it and ultimately he is the one who suffers the most from this album not being marketed properly. Instead of being the album with the song that broke Pineda out of Perry's shadow, Eclipse is on course to be a promotional disaster and remembered as the record that broke the band's back at retail. This album could very well kill their relationship with Wal-Mart and be the last Journey record to see mass distribution.

It's still premature to prognosticate anything like that. While you may very well be correct, I'm still hoping this record will grow legs.

Saint John wrote:

Rick wrote:That song has grown on me a whole lot. I love it.

Man, I think it's their third or fourth best ballad ever, trailing only Faithfully, Still They Ride and possibly After The Fall.

But is Tantra really a ballad? Just because it's a slow tempo song, doesn't mean it's a ballad. It's more of a 'piece' or 'movement'. The def of a ballad is a song that narrates a story, or conveys an emotional experience with someone, regardless of tempo. I view Tantra as some sort of artistic expression that fits within the concept of the album. It's almost like a transition of sorts.


later~

Saint John wrote:

youkeepmewaiting wrote:
But at the end of the song (before the very end Piano bit where it repeats the beginning of the song) Arnel sings (5.33-5.40secs ish )"Tantra watch over meeeeeeeee" .... is it just me or is he just completely out of breathe and really straining ?

I got this from the guy, David Kalmusky, that mixed the album when I asked a similar question. And I loved his answer:

This record, is as human as you can possibly make a record these days, and if we put it under the microscope, there are lots of pick noises, moments where it might rush a bit, and lay back a bit, Arnel's vocal may crack a little, or fall naturally off Pitch... It's part of the experience the Band, and Kevin want you to have with this record. to really hear these guys, and their musicianship. Like a concert, or an experience...It's full of alot of really cool "Honest" musical moments, that really show you just how great these guys are. There's nothing "Clinical" about this record, So... it's not bound to be "Perfect".

Thank you Saint John for posting this. Eclipse is one of the best releases this year along with Night Ranger, Whitesnake, Mr. Big, and Def Leppard.

Rick wrote:

Don wrote:

Rick wrote:

steveo777 wrote:

Saint John wrote:

Rick wrote:That song has grown on me a whole lot. I love it.

Man, I think it's their third or fourth best ballad ever, trailing only Faithfully, Still They Ride and possibly After The Fall.

This is the correct answer folks. Fuck everyone else.

Ditto to both of you.

One song that never gets any love that I love is "Easy To Fall".

At least there were enough people that had a chance to hear that song simply by buying the album.

I'm not a fan of Tantra but Arnel does some of his best stuff on it and ultimately he is the one who suffers the most from this album not being marketed properly. Instead of being the album with the song that broke Pineda out of Perry's shadow, Eclipse is on course to be a promotional disaster and remembered as the record that broke the band's back at retail. This album could very well kill their relationship with Wal-Mart and be the last Journey record to see mass distribution.

It's still premature to prognosticate anything like that. While you may very well be correct, I'm still hoping this record will grow legs.

Premature? Despite being available through the top three music distributors, the album has sold less than 50,000 copies in five weeks. To put that in perspective, Journey's Greatest Hits (a 20 year old album) sold over 35,000 CDs in the last two weeks.
Eclipse is averaging less than two CDs sold per Wal-Mart Store weekly despite having dozens of albums sitting on the rack.

No, I don't think it's premature at all.

Don wrote:

Rick wrote:

Don wrote:

Rick wrote:

steveo777 wrote:

Saint John wrote:

Rick wrote:That song has grown on me a whole lot. I love it.

Man, I think it's their third or fourth best ballad ever, trailing only Faithfully, Still They Ride and possibly After The Fall.

This is the correct answer folks. Fuck everyone else.

Ditto to both of you.

One song that never gets any love that I love is "Easy To Fall".

At least there were enough people that had a chance to hear that song simply by buying the album.

I'm not a fan of Tantra but Arnel does some of his best stuff on it and ultimately he is the one who suffers the most from this album not being marketed properly. Instead of being the album with the song that broke Pineda out of Perry's shadow, Eclipse is on course to be a promotional disaster and remembered as the record that broke the band's back at retail. This album could very well kill their relationship with Wal-Mart and be the last Journey record to see mass distribution.

It's still premature to prognosticate anything like that. While you may very well be correct, I'm still hoping this record will grow legs.

Premature? Despite being available through the top three music distributors, the album has sold less than 50,000 copies in five weeks. To put that in perspective, Journey's Greatest Hits (a 20 year old album) sold over 35,000 CDs in the last two weeks.
Eclipse is averaging less than two CDs sold per Wal-Mart Store weekly despite having dozens of albums sitting on the rack.

No, I don't think it's premature at all.

I'm saying that because they have a two year tour to promote it, and that's exactly what they're doing. I'm not saying it's going to sell a million, but if 5% of the fans at the concerts they're doing, pick it up, that's going to add up. At 5%, that's roughly 1000 a show.

Rick wrote:

Don wrote:

Rick wrote:

Don wrote:

Rick wrote:

steveo777 wrote:

Saint John wrote:

Rick wrote:That song has grown on me a whole lot. I love it.

Man, I think it's their third or fourth best ballad ever, trailing only Faithfully, Still They Ride and possibly After The Fall.

This is the correct answer folks. Fuck everyone else.

Ditto to both of you.

One song that never gets any love that I love is "Easy To Fall".

At least there were enough people that had a chance to hear that song simply by buying the album.

I'm not a fan of Tantra but Arnel does some of his best stuff on it and ultimately he is the one who suffers the most from this album not being marketed properly. Instead of being the album with the song that broke Pineda out of Perry's shadow, Eclipse is on course to be a promotional disaster and remembered as the record that broke the band's back at retail. This album could very well kill their relationship with Wal-Mart and be the last Journey record to see mass distribution.

It's still premature to prognosticate anything like that. While you may very well be correct, I'm still hoping this record will grow legs.

Premature? Despite being available through the top three music distributors, the album has sold less than 50,000 copies in five weeks. To put that in perspective, Journey's Greatest Hits (a 20 year old album) sold over 35,000 CDs in the last two weeks.
Eclipse is averaging less than two CDs sold per Wal-Mart Store weekly despite having dozens of albums sitting on the rack.

No, I don't think it's premature at all.

I'm saying that because they have a two year tour to promote it, and that's exactly what they're doing. I'm not saying it's going to sell a million, but if 5% of the fans at the concerts they're doing, pick it up, that's going to add up. At 5%, that's roughly 1000 a show.

That would still put it in the range of 150,000 sales total after both tours. Again, not even a quarter of Revelation's real sales and less than even Arrival's sales after that album's first two years on the market.

Not busting your balls but when, as of last week the band did an interview and STILL did not promote the album being on iTunes and Amazon, I just don't see any type of positive marketing upswing anywhere on the horizon.

Don wrote:

Rick wrote:

Don wrote:

Rick wrote:

Don wrote:

Rick wrote:

steveo777 wrote:

Saint John wrote:

Rick wrote:That song has grown on me a whole lot. I love it.

Man, I think it's their third or fourth best ballad ever, trailing only Faithfully, Still They Ride and possibly After The Fall.

This is the correct answer folks. Fuck everyone else.

Ditto to both of you.

One song that never gets any love that I love is "Easy To Fall".

At least there were enough people that had a chance to hear that song simply by buying the album.

I'm not a fan of Tantra but Arnel does some of his best stuff on it and ultimately he is the one who suffers the most from this album not being marketed properly. Instead of being the album with the song that broke Pineda out of Perry's shadow, Eclipse is on course to be a promotional disaster and remembered as the record that broke the band's back at retail. This album could very well kill their relationship with Wal-Mart and be the last Journey record to see mass distribution.

It's still premature to prognosticate anything like that. While you may very well be correct, I'm still hoping this record will grow legs.

Premature? Despite being available through the top three music distributors, the album has sold less than 50,000 copies in five weeks. To put that in perspective, Journey's Greatest Hits (a 20 year old album) sold over 35,000 CDs in the last two weeks.
Eclipse is averaging less than two CDs sold per Wal-Mart Store weekly despite having dozens of albums sitting on the rack.

No, I don't think it's premature at all.

I'm saying that because they have a two year tour to promote it, and that's exactly what they're doing. I'm not saying it's going to sell a million, but if 5% of the fans at the concerts they're doing, pick it up, that's going to add up. At 5%, that's roughly 1000 a show.

That would still put it in the range of 150,000 sales total after both tours. Again, not even a quarter of Revelation's real sales and less than even Arrival's sales after that album's first two years on the market.

Not busting your balls but when, as of last week the band did an interview and STILL did not promote the album being on iTunes and Amazon, I just don't see any type of positive marketing upswing anywhere on the horizon.

No, no worries, Don, just posing semantics. I feel 5% is probably what might buy it after seeing them pimp it at a concert, and in my estimation, that may be low. Could be high, as well.

If it seems I'm being a dick, I am.
During launch week, This (at times anti) Journey forum gave Eclipse ten times the promo that Nomota was actually providing to the album. If this album does indeed flop, I can't feel sorry for any one in the band except Arnel.

Don wrote:If it seems I'm being a dick, I am.
During launch week, This (at times anti) Journey forum gave Eclipse ten times the promo that Nomota was actually providing to the album. If this album does indeed flop, I can't feel sorry for any one in the band except Arnel.

You are a good contributor of information, so any dickness will be excused in lieu of that.