Why Elipse flopped for the average fan

[steveo777]

Neal promised a rocker. For a person that likes to skip tracks, it doesn't immediately rock. Actually, most of the songs have pretty mellow beginnings, which for someone who expects something that rocks and skips tracks when they don't hear that "rock", well, fuck it...this album is junk. There are a couple songs on this that immediately sound like mellow ol' Journey. I can see where most people will zoom into those couple songs and go.....meh, that don't impress me much. I have a friend who called me the other day and wanted to know what the title of the album was. He was at Walmart and was buying some new music to take out on the boat. I didn't see him for a couple days. We work together and when we returned to work he said, "Steve, I got that album, but it didn't do anything for me. It was really too mellow and reminded me of being back in high school".

I said really......did you listen to the whole thing, or did you just skip until you found something that had some semblance of Journey of yesteryear? He said, yeah, I did exactly as you asked. I told him he missed it and that you have to make time to sit down and listen to the songs because they start mellow but most of them rock and go a way different direction than you expect. He doesn't understand. Monday we are going out on his boat and I'm gonna play the album again, but no skipping. We'll see what he thinks then.

We'll find out what he thinks when he's reeling in a bass and the opening of Chain Of Love shifts and goes into high gear, or when She's A Mystery takes off.

[Escape Artist]

I agree...but, this is assuming the average fan is even aware that this CD exists. Sadly I think the Journey camp took a giant shit with this one promotion wise and most people have no idea Eclipse is even out there. It's a shame because it's really a great recording.

[jrnyjetster]

That will change once the U.S. leg of the tour kicks into full gear, plus their network TV appearances. We'll see.....

[Archetype]

I was at Walmart earlier this morning and decided to check on Eclipse...unless they were moved somewhere, about 50 copies have sold since I was last there. A couple of the Eclipse racks are near empty.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Who the hell buys a new cd and then immediately starts hitting "skip"? I may do that after one listen, but I at least try to give something a fair shake. Not so sure your friend representst the average fan. This is Journey, not Pantera. Eclipse rocks in its own melodic way.

[Arkansas]

The average fan isn't going to invest any time to sit & study a new album. The average fan wants to instantly hear what he expects, and within 10 seconds go 'yeah I like this'. Then they'll skip around to other songs to see if they like something even better. Within 10 mins, they'll like it and want to listen all the way through, or it'll get tossed on the shelf...or given back to the person from whom they borrowed it.


later~

[Christopher]

I think you're right. I also think that this album is a grower, while Revelation offered the instant gratification that most casual Journey fans are used to. Songs like Be Good TO Yourself, To Be Alive Again, All The Way, Only The Young, DSB, Faithfully, WITS, AWYWI, Seperate Ways, Open Arms, Stone In Love....etc etc....they ALL either start out aggressive with a cool guitar riff or with a really immmediately interesting hook from the very first notes...and when a good number of songs on an album do this, people are more willing to give the songs a chance that don't do this.

The problem with Eclipse, for the casual/radio fan...is that Eclipse makes you wait for the payoff, and not all the songs provide this payoff....or at least not to the same level of hookage that the afore-mentioned songs bring to the table.

Now, dare I say, I'm a diehard fan...even trouble with management can't change the fact that I love the music...and as much as I hate how Augeri was just tossed away....I still can't stay away. I'm a sucker for Journey. I immediately loved Revelation...it was the Journey formula. I did NOT immediately take to Eclipse...even as much of a fan as I am. However, the more I listen, the more I can appreciate it and the hooks make themselves more noticeable to me. It's not to the level that Revelation grabs me...however, I have a feeling that Eclipse will weather the storm in later years for me, better than Revelation will.

Shame too...cause all that we have all mentioned, means that brilliant songs like Troubled Child get overlooked for "best of" compilations in favor of lesser/poppier songs like Good Mornin' Girl.

[YoungJRNY]

Who the hell buys a new cd and then immediately starts hitting "skip"? I may do that after one listen, but I at least try to give something a fair shake. Not so sure your friend representst the average fan. This is Journey, not Pantera. Eclipse rocks in its own melodic way.

Good post. I agree. Honestly, if the casual fan liked ANYTHING Journey put out other than the Greatest Hits, then they would REALLY enjoy this album. A new sound but at the same time, very Journey-melodic blend into going with a different direction on most of the tracks but yet, stay true to their legacy-sound (City of Hope, Someone, Anything is Possible, To Whom It May Concern, etc.) People act like Journey went heavy-metal/Metallica on us. Not the case AT ALL. Eclipse flopped because the promotion and advertising was pretty much NON-EXISTENT. Hell, if I wasn't an avid Melodic-rocker around these parts, I wouldn't know Eclipse was on my local Wal-Mart shelves.

[Gideon]

Eclipse is still pretty fresh to me. I had to go back and reevaluate my stance on certain songs and I find myself listening to the second half of the album even more than the first half nowadays. It's a great release and is surpassing Frontiers in my personal favorites.

[Seven Wishes2]

Nothing to see here. I've moved along.

[steveo777]

Nothing to see here. I've moved along.

Yet you posted.......

[Seven Wishes2]

I didn't know the thought and opinion police still patrolled here.

[RedWingFan]

Maybe it flopped because the music isn't very good, and doesn't have wide appeal. I think it's funny how people want to always fault others. Walmart didn't push it. The fans are too stupid to listen to it properly, etc.

[slucero]

For the "lay" Journey fan, "rocker" = Any Way You Want It.... or Stone In Love


It's pretty simple... they want hooks... when they don't get them they move on to something else..

[yulog]

For the "lay" Journey fan, "rocker" = Any Way You Want It.... or Stone In Love


It's pretty simple... they want hooks... when they don't get them they move on to something else..

BINGO!!!!!

[The_Noble_Cause]

Maybe it flopped because the music isn't very good, and doesn't have wide appeal.

For the "lay" Journey fan, "rocker" = Any Way You Want It.... or Stone In Love.
It's pretty simple... they want hooks... when they don't get them they move on to something else..

BINGO!!!!!

Riiiight. Becuz "Arrival" and "Generations" sold like hotcakes, didn't they?
Let's not forget that Armageddon single that set record charts ablaze.
Until Azoff, Sony, or Wmart (or whoever) throws their support behind a Perry-free Journey, we'll never know if there is a market for it or not.

[Gideon]

Maybe it flopped because the music isn't very good, and doesn't have wide appeal.

Definitely possible, especially the second half of that sentence, but you can make that argument about any CD that doesn't do well financially.

[yulog]

Maybe it flopped because the music isn't very good, and doesn't have wide appeal.

For the "lay" Journey fan, "rocker" = Any Way You Want It.... or Stone In Love.
It's pretty simple... they want hooks... when they don't get them they move on to something else..

BINGO!!!!!

Riiiight. Becuz "Arrival" and "Generations" sold like hotcakes, didn't they?
Let's not forget that Armageddon single that set record charts ablaze.
Until Azoff, Sony, or Wmart (or whoever) throws their support behind a Perry-free Journey, we'll never know if there is a market for it or not.

Sony would have shit canned this experiment, this album is not what 95% of journey fans want,as is evident by the limited number of anyone even caring to comment about this cd.There is about 25 supporters here(say i'm wrong and there is a 1000 ) The cd fails at the most simple level It doesn't appeal to the majority of journey fans .

Slucero is right a journey rocker still has to have major hooks , thats what journey is, the melodic rock band with lots of harmonies and stuck in you head hooks. So they tried something different and it didn't work, who cares, these guys are 60 now... trying to reinvent the wheel this late was bound to be a disaster. (i wouldn't even call this a disaster, but it just didn't work). This trying to find excuses for the reason why the cd bombed is just kinda sad and having a new thread every other day to go over the same crap is just pitiful.

[Frontiers65]

Well I been a huge Journey fan since 1979 and Eclipse to me is bland. I own all their records and Eclipse just does not do it for me.

[slucero]

Maybe it flopped because the music isn't very good, and doesn't have wide appeal.

For the "lay" Journey fan, "rocker" = Any Way You Want It.... or Stone In Love.
It's pretty simple... they want hooks... when they don't get them they move on to something else..

BINGO!!!!!

Riiiight. Becuz "Arrival" and "Generations" sold like hotcakes, didn't they?
Let's not forget that Armageddon single that set record charts ablaze.
Until Azoff, Sony, or Wmart (or whoever) throws their support behind a Perry-free Journey, we'll never know if there is a market for it or not.

Wow you quoted me yet still didn't read my post...

I said "lay" fan... Most of us aren't lay fans... and we know Arrival and Generations, without any major marketing.. had little to no chance of "getting to" those lay fans on any grand scale...

[scarab]

I think Ellipse is the better title for the CD.

[steveo777]

I think Ellipse is the better title for the CD.

If SA was still with the band they could have named it Helipse.

[DracIsBack]

Why is this a mystery? It didn't sell for $12 bucks with a free DVD and a disc of greatest hits people already knew.

That's why it's not selling as well as its predecessor.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Wow you quoted me yet still didn't read my post...

I said "lay" fan... Most of us aren't lay fans... and we know Arrival and Generations, without any major marketing.. had little to no chance of "getting to" those lay fans on any grand scale...

"Arrival" had all of those big hooky choruses you mentioned, and it still failed. Might want to re-read your own post. Whatever point your trying to make isn't very clear.

[The_Noble_Cause]

The cd fails at the most simple level It doesn't appeal to the majority of journey fans .

Sounds to me like the album simply doesn't appeal to you and your pissed off. Make up all the lame-brained excuses you want (no hooks, no Perry, no Sony etc).

[slucero]

Wow you quoted me yet still didn't read my post...

I said "lay" fan... Most of us aren't lay fans... and we know Arrival and Generations, without any major marketing.. had little to no chance of "getting to" those lay fans on any grand scale...

"Arrival" had all of those big hooky choruses you mentioned, and it still failed. Might want to re-read your own post. Whatever point your trying to make isn't very clear.

right there in front of you.. clear as day...

clean the glasses, open your eyes, lay off the coffee... seriously dude... try some reading comprehension...

[slucero]

The cd fails at the most simple level It doesn't appeal to the majority of journey fans .

Sounds to me like the album simply doesn't appeal to you and your pissed off. Make up all the lame-brained excuses you want (no hooks, no Perry, no Sony etc).

Yulog is disappointed... as are many others... that doesn't mean "pissed off".

You're posts on the other hand.. ALL come off as pissy.... get over yourself..

[yulog]

The cd fails at the most simple level It doesn't appeal to the majority of journey fans .

Sounds to me like the album simply doesn't appeal to you and your pissed off. Make up all the lame-brained excuses you want (no hooks, no Perry, no Sony etc).

Sounds like I struck a nerve and the one thats pissed/frustrated might be yourself.

Is there an exclamation point in any of my posts (and bingo wasn't a mad comment) that might signify that i am pissed? Did i say anything about Perry?

Lately Steve O and yourself have been on a mission to try and discount anyones comment that could be deemed negative about the new cd(and from the looks of it you two have been pretty busy lately ).

lame-brained indeed

[The_Noble_Cause]

Yulog is disappointed... as are many others... that doesn't mean "pissed off".

You're posts on the other hand.. ALL come off as pissy.... get over yourself..

Several albums have come out in the past year that dissapointed me. Guess what? I said my piece, debated with fans, and generally, bought something better. You guys, on the other hand, are actively rooting for the demise of the band itself. Any thread that can be derailed, has been derailed. It's not even about the music, as most of your points are dumb hyperbolic crap ("Eclipse is as radical as a bluegrass album"? "Tantra is the worst song since Emile Berliner invented the gramophone". Really? ). Like the pro-Perry maniacs that used to make this forum an intolerable shithole and hijack every thread, ur posts are just white noise spam.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Sounds like I struck a nerve and the one thats pissed/frustrated might be yourself.

Is there an exclamation point in any of my posts (and bingo wasn't a mad comment) that might signify that i am pissed? Did i say anything about Perry?

No, it's just your track record of bashing Eclipse, or anything remotely related to it, for the past month, day in and day out. When someone's posts come off like a child with an axe to grind, the writer is usually a child with an axe to grind. Like I said above, the self-loathing Perryheads used to piss, whine, moan on here daily about how Augeri sux and Perry needs to come back. They were pissed off. I'm guessing you are too.

Lately Steve O and yourself have been on a mission to try and discount anyones comment that could be deemed negative about the new cd(and from the looks of it you two have been pretty busy lately ).

lame-brained indeed

I'm not discounting anyone's opinion. I'm debating the cd. Meanwhile, you guys are offering insightful analysis like "Eclipse is a bluegrass album" and "Tantra is cheesy. Journey was never cheesy."