MR

Use Your Imagination & Time Travel....


1. If Arnel had joined Journey back in 1977 (use your imagination) instead of Steve...would you have been a fan back then?

2. If Steve had joined Journey in 2008 (use your imagination) instead of Arnel...would you be a fan nowadays?

3. Would Journey have sold more albums back in 1977 if Arnel had joined them....then in 2008 when Steve had joined them?

( Keep in mind that the original songs would have Arnels voice on them and not Steves. But Steve would be putting his spin
on them now)....

tater1977 wrote:Use Your Imagination & Time Travel....


1. If Arnel had joined Journey back in 1977 (use your imagination) instead of Steve...would you have been a fan back then?

2. If Steve had joined Journey in 2008 (use your imagination) instead of Arnel...would you be a fan nowadays?

3. Would Journey have sold more albums back in 1977 if Arnel had joined them....then in 2008 when Steve had joined them?

( Keep in mind that the original songs would have Arnels voice on them and not Steves. But Steve would be putting his spin
on them now)....

I've come to realize that I am way more of a Steve Fan than of Journey.
Any scenario with Steve Perry singing....case closed.

\~/

You are forgetting that, while not a great songwriter Perry brought a lot to the table as far his ability to collaborate with the other members.
Cain had just mentioned not that long ago that his partnership with Perry brought the greatest success he had over been associated with.
With Arnel at the helm, a guy who has not shown any penchant for leading or taking initiative with anything Journey related in the creativity department, would the band really have ventured much further than being a Jazz/Funk unit?

Look at WCN, Journey's second highest charting single. Perry brought that idea to Jon from driving in the rain one night. He and Jon could just sit at a piano and start rolling while leaving Neal off in the corner until later. No way (from what we know so far) that that chemistry would ever happen with Pineda.
Without that, would the band (or at least the Post Captured band) have ever become the huge act they ended up being in the early 80s?

I don't think my imagination want's to be this big.

portland wrote:I don't think my imagination want's to be this big.

The rest of you sure doesn't seem to be having that problem.

Saint John wrote:

portland wrote:I don't think my imagination want's to be this big.

The rest of you sure doesn't seem to be having that problem.

When compared to your mouth...I am the size of tinkerbell!

I guess I need to imagine that this post makes sense too...

Escape Artist wrote:I guess I need to imagine that this post makes sense too...

Yeah, can't possibly imagine an early Journey without SP in the equation.

"With that voice came all the success..." -- Neal Schon.
"Patiently...Stay Awhile...were great songs.." -- HH.

And these 3 signature tunes, songs that still are played in every present-day concert: Lights, LTS, AWYWI.
Could Arnel have written them? JC didn't write them, either.

Don wrote:You are forgetting that, while not a great songwriter Perry brought a lot to the table as far his ability to collaborate with the other members.
Cain had just mentioned not that long ago that his partnership with Perry brought the greatest success he had over been associated with.
With Arnel at the helm, a guy who has not shown any penchant for leading or taking initiative with anything Journey related in the creativity department, would the band really have ventured much further than being a Jazz/Funk unit?

Look at WCN, Journey's second highest charting single. Perry brought that idea to Jon from driving in the rain one night. He and Jon could just sit at a piano and start rolling while leaving Neal off in the corner until later. No way (from what we know so far) that that chemistry would ever happen with Pineda.
Without that, would the band (or at least the Post Captured band) have ever become the huge act they ended up being in the early 80s?

Open Arms would have never saw the light of day either.

Not a chance in hell would Journey still be around if Pineda would've been brought to the band in 77. They probably would've had a few hits (Wheel In the Sky was already written if I'm not mistaken when Perry joined), but they wouldn't have broken it as big. Reason being is because Arnie hasn't shown an ounce of song writing abilities. Perry although he wasn't the great writer did bring some solid ideas with him.

Perry would've found work some how if he was unknown in 2008. Hell at worst through American Idol

Arnel definitely has the voice, but Don's right about lacking Perry's skills as an artist. They would have likely had a few hits but would never have made it to the heights they achieved with Perry.

Now that that is out of the way....

Don wrote:Without that, would the band (or at least the Post Captured band) have ever become the huge act they ended up being in the early 80s?

Not quite as high, no, because Perry's skills an artist were a critical component. But their biggest songs (DSB, Open Arms, Faithfully) originated with Cain, not Perry.

Annie wrote:Could Arnel have written them? JC didn't write them, either.

Yeah, he was probably too busy coming up with the band's real hits: DSB, Open Arms, and Faithfully. Their pre-Cain stuff is paltry in comparison when it comes to commercial success.

Gideon wrote:Arnel definitely has the voice, but Don's right about lacking Perry's skills as an artist. They would have likely had a few hits but would never have made it to the heights they achieved with Perry.

Now that that is out of the way....

Don wrote:Without that, would the band (or at least the Post Captured band) have ever become the huge act they ended up being in the early 80s?

Not quite as high, no, because Perry's skills an artist were a critical component. But their biggest songs (DSB, Open Arms, Faithfully) originated with Cain, not Perry.

Annie wrote:Could Arnel have written them? JC didn't write them, either.

Yeah, he was probably too busy coming up with the band's real hits: DSB, Open Arms, and Faithfully. Their pre-Cain stuff is paltry in comparison when it comes to commercial success.

The whole thing with DSB though, basically writing the song backwards; that seems one of those spur of the moment things that could have only happened with the individuals involved. If that song is removed from the equation it throws the whole thing into chaos. Sony may not have that one song from the Tokyo show to give MTV in its first month on the air.
Make no mistake, MTV made Escape reach #1 more than any other outside factor. With a short list of videos initially, DSB opened the door with AWYWI and WITS bringing up the rear.
The song that Jon did bring to the group almost completely finished, Open Arms came into the picture after WCN had already reached #3 on the chart (a song that from all accounts originated with Perry). Without DSB and WCN, does Open Arms have as much impact or does it simply elevate Escape a notch above Infinity in Journey's catalog?

very drunk list of questions

Saint John wrote:

portland wrote:I don't think my imagination want's to be this big.

The rest of you sure doesn't seem to be having that problem.

Yet another classic comment from DannyBoy

TRAGChick wrote:

tater1977 wrote:Use Your Imagination & Time Travel....


1. If Arnel had joined Journey back in 1977 (use your imagination) instead of Steve...would you have been a fan back then?

2. If Steve had joined Journey in 2008 (use your imagination) instead of Arnel...would you be a fan nowadays?

3. Would Journey have sold more albums back in 1977 if Arnel had joined them....then in 2008 when Steve had joined them?

( Keep in mind that the original songs would have Arnels voice on them and not Steves. But Steve would be putting his spin
on them now)....

I've come to realize that I am way more of a Steve Fan than of Journey.
Any scenario with Steve Perry singing....case closed.

\~/

Well said, but I'm gonna re-open the case...sort of.

I've came to realize a while back that I am more of a Journey fan than of Steve.
Any scenario that involves JSS or AP singing....case closed.

\~/

Gideon wrote:Arnel definitely has the voice, but Don's right about lacking Perry's skills as an artist. They would have likely had a few hits but would never have made it to the heights they achieved with Perry.

Now that that is out of the way....

Don wrote:Without that, would the band (or at least the Post Captured band) have ever become the huge act they ended up being in the early 80s?

Not quite as high, no, because Perry's skills an artist were a critical component. But their biggest songs (DSB, Open Arms, Faithfully) originated with Cain, not Perry.

Annie wrote:Could Arnel have written them? JC didn't write them, either.

Yeah, he was probably too busy coming up with the band's real hits: DSB, Open Arms, and Faithfully. Their pre-Cain stuff is paltry in comparison when it comes to commercial success.

Agreed Gids...but the Rollie years had some bad ass tunes!

Glenn wrote:I've came to realize a while back that I am more of a Journey fan than of Steve.

I told Portland the same thing via PM not too long ago.
Journey is and will always be greater than its base parts. Journey > Perry.

Glenn wrote:

Gideon wrote:Arnel definitely has the voice, but Don's right about lacking Perry's skills as an artist. They would have likely had a few hits but would never have made it to the heights they achieved with Perry.

Now that that is out of the way....

Don wrote:Without that, would the band (or at least the Post Captured band) have ever become the huge act they ended up being in the early 80s?

Not quite as high, no, because Perry's skills an artist were a critical component. But their biggest songs (DSB, Open Arms, Faithfully) originated with Cain, not Perry.

Annie wrote:Could Arnel have written them? JC didn't write them, either.

Yeah, he was probably too busy coming up with the band's real hits: DSB, Open Arms, and Faithfully. Their pre-Cain stuff is paltry in comparison when it comes to commercial success.

Agreed Gids...but the Rollie years had some bad ass tunes!

Agreed, but a cult following didn't add up to record sales. They couldn't get on the radio man.

steveo777 wrote:

Glenn wrote:

Gideon wrote:Arnel definitely has the voice, but Don's right about lacking Perry's skills as an artist. They would have likely had a few hits but would never have made it to the heights they achieved with Perry.

Now that that is out of the way....

Don wrote:Without that, would the band (or at least the Post Captured band) have ever become the huge act they ended up being in the early 80s?

Not quite as high, no, because Perry's skills an artist were a critical component. But their biggest songs (DSB, Open Arms, Faithfully) originated with Cain, not Perry.

Annie wrote:Could Arnel have written them? JC didn't write them, either.

Yeah, he was probably too busy coming up with the band's real hits: DSB, Open Arms, and Faithfully. Their pre-Cain stuff is paltry in comparison when it comes to commercial success.

Agreed Gids...but the Rollie years had some bad ass tunes!

Agreed, but a cult following didn't add up to record sales. They couldn't get on the radio man.

I could be completely wrong, but I think he meant, the Rolie/Perry years.

If we imagine them the way as it is now, I would still favour Steve Perry. He is his own man, talent and skills. But if we consider other factors like culture, influence, etc. Arnel can be one of the greatest, he is just unlucky he is born in our not-great-country and grown up as cover artist only.

Behshad wrote:

Saint John wrote:

portland wrote:I don't think my imagination want's to be this big.

The rest of you sure doesn't seem to be having that problem.

Yet another classic comment from DannyBoy

Yes, just brillant!

portland wrote:

Behshad wrote:

Saint John wrote:

portland wrote:I don't think my imagination want's to be this big.

The rest of you sure doesn't seem to be having that problem.

Yet another classic comment from DannyBoy

Yes, just brilliant!

Arnel woulda been about 10........tough sell....

Maui Tom wrote:Arnel woulda been about 10........tough sell....

Michael Jackson sold at 10. (AP is no MJ)

As much as I enjoy listening to AP sing as well as Perry, the fact is the combination of Perry, Cain and Schon together made for some great song writing and most of the hits Journey has released today. All that said, I enjoyed the hell out of Eclipse and I actually enjoyed To Whom it May Concern, which despite having AP's hand on it, almost had a So Easy to Fall vibe in a couple places. I mean (and this is just me using my imagination here), if Perry, Cain, and Schon somehow let by-gones be by-gones (wishful thinking I know) and write a bunch of songs and then turn AP loose on them (I probably caused a few people to choke on their vomit just now), I suspect you might get some mileage. Hell Jack Blades chiming in with JC and NS helped them out.

*drops two cents in the bucket*

Glenn wrote:

Gideon wrote:Arnel definitely has the voice, but Don's right about lacking Perry's skills as an artist. They would have likely had a few hits but would never have made it to the heights they achieved with Perry.

Now that that is out of the way....

Don wrote:Without that, would the band (or at least the Post Captured band) have ever become the huge act they ended up being in the early 80s?

Not quite as high, no, because Perry's skills an artist were a critical component. But their biggest songs (DSB, Open Arms, Faithfully) originated with Cain, not Perry.

Annie wrote:Could Arnel have written them? JC didn't write them, either.

Yeah, he was probably too busy coming up with the band's real hits: DSB, Open Arms, and Faithfully. Their pre-Cain stuff is paltry in comparison when it comes to commercial success.

Agreed Gids...but the Rollie years had some bad ass tunes!

I actually like the pre-Cain Journey more than the 80's band. But then again I think a lot of their songs that weren't hits were some of their best.

rcgamer wrote:

Glenn wrote:

Gideon wrote:Arnel definitely has the voice, but Don's right about lacking Perry's skills as an artist. They would have likely had a few hits but would never have made it to the heights they achieved with Perry.

Now that that is out of the way....

Don wrote:Without that, would the band (or at least the Post Captured band) have ever become the huge act they ended up being in the early 80s?

Not quite as high, no, because Perry's skills an artist were a critical component. But their biggest songs (DSB, Open Arms, Faithfully) originated with Cain, not Perry.

Annie wrote:Could Arnel have written them? JC didn't write them, either.

Yeah, he was probably too busy coming up with the band's real hits: DSB, Open Arms, and Faithfully. Their pre-Cain stuff is paltry in comparison when it comes to commercial success.

Agreed Gids...but the Rollie years had some bad ass tunes!

I actually like the pre-Cain Journey more than the 80's band. But then again I think a lot of their songs that weren't hits were some of their best.

The studio versions are pretty good but that era really shines on Captured. A faster Tempo, a bit of a change in Perry's voice. Just a fantastic album, not to mention having The Party's Over on their also.

Putting talent and songwriting ability aside, in 1979, do you think the population that was Journey fans would have been open to the idea of a Filipino front man? I'm having a tough time seeing that as plausible, considering its still a hard sale to this day.

That and I think knowing what we know about Steve Perry, his ego is too large to attach himself to projects that were not his, a couple here and there sure, but I don't think he is the type of person that would be OK only doing one or two songs that he was involved in creating, ala augeri and pineda...