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JOURNEY ECLIPSE CHALLENGE TO FINISH RECORDING AND COMPETE WITH CATALOG

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http://youtu.be/JS8yd1Cl8fo

Journey's Neal Schon talks about the hard work on their latest album Eclipse, while an interesting side-effect of the tour is taking shape

Neal doesn't seem very pleased with Kevin Shirley's work on this one.

I'm still amazed that they are still following the fuzzy math of Revelation's sales figures...platinum? Yeah, ok.

Actually kind of a refreshing interview about stuff we normally don't hear a lot about. I know the Shirley thing had been reported previously, but I liked the non talking points material that he thew out there about the process. Good interview.

Neal, bad grooming!

S2M wrote:I'm still amazed that they are still following the fuzzy math of Revelation's sales figures...platinum? Yeah, ok.

It was a 2 disc set and moved about 750,000 units. Multiply that by 2 and you've sold 1.5 million discs. What's so hard to figure out about that? Besides, worldwide, I'm sure it has moved over a million physical units, though I'm aware that those wouldn't count toward the RIAA's certification. At any rate, it was a highly successful album and put a lot of loot in everyone's pocket that had writing credits on the album. Everybody wins.

Saint John wrote:

S2M wrote:I'm still amazed that they are still following the fuzzy math of Revelation's sales figures...platinum? Yeah, ok.

It was a 2 disc set and moved about 750,000 units. Multiply that by 2 and you've sold 1.5 million discs. What's so hard to figure out about that? Besides, worldwide, I'm sure it has moved over a million physical units, though I'm aware that those wouldn't count toward the RIAA's certification. At any rate, it was a highly successful album and put a lot of loot in everyone's pocket that had writing credits on the album. Everybody wins.

Still fuzzy math. It is a package deal. Does a 12-disc boxset achieve platinum status in 1/12 the time as...say....Frontiers? It is a package. All the discs are packaged together. I'm sure the bill of lading at the local music store shows units ordered as each copy of Revelation, not each disc included separately. For RIAA to have different standards is ghey...they just do it to spark sales. "WOW, that disc is already gold?! It must be good!"

Nomota just shipped another 50,000 units of Revelation last quarter so by whatever standards you want to count, either the single package math or the official RIAA accounting status, at this point it has shipped 1 million physical units.

Saint John wrote:

S2M wrote:I'm still amazed that they are still following the fuzzy math of Revelation's sales figures...platinum? Yeah, ok.

It was a 2 disc set and moved about 750,000 units. Multiply that by 2 and you've sold 1.5 million discs. What's so hard to figure out about that? Besides, worldwide, I'm sure it has moved over a million physical units, though I'm aware that those wouldn't count toward the RIAA's certification. At any rate, it was a highly successful album and put a lot of loot in everyone's pocket that had writing credits on the album. Everybody wins.

You mean Revelation has only sold around a million or so units? Man, what a faliure! j/k

Jeremey wrote:Nomota just shipped another 50,000 units of Revelation last quarter so by whatever standards you want to count, either the single package math or the official RIAA accounting status, at this point it has shipped 1 million physical units.

My bad. Just looked in the Thesaurus. Shipped is a synonym of sold. Sorry.

S2M wrote:

Saint John wrote:

S2M wrote:I'm still amazed that they are still following the fuzzy math of Revelation's sales figures...platinum? Yeah, ok.

It was a 2 disc set and moved about 750,000 units. Multiply that by 2 and you've sold 1.5 million discs. What's so hard to figure out about that? Besides, worldwide, I'm sure it has moved over a million physical units, though I'm aware that those wouldn't count toward the RIAA's certification. At any rate, it was a highly successful album and put a lot of loot in everyone's pocket that had writing credits on the album. Everybody wins.

Still fuzzy math. It is a package deal. Does a 12-disc boxset achieve platinum status in 1/12 the time as...say....Frontiers? It is a package. All the discs are packaged together. I'm sure the bill of lading at the local music store shows units ordered as each copy of Revelation, not each disc included separately. For RIAA to have different standards is ghey...they just do it to spark sales. "WOW, that disc is already gold?! It must be good!"

Definitely agree with you on this; since there was no option to buy the discs separately, they should be counted as one.
OTOH, maybe they should have released Eclipse as a 12 disc set (one song per disc) so that it too could go platinum.

S2M wrote:I'm still amazed that they are still following the fuzzy math of Revelation's sales figures...platinum? Yeah, ok.

If they are using fuzzy math for promotion I'm cool with it......if they really think it that's another thing.

Jeremey wrote:Nomota just shipped another 50,000 units of Revelation last quarter so by whatever standards you want to count, either the single package math or the official RIAA accounting status, at this point it has shipped 1 million physical units.

Wow ... I guess that begs the question; Do you know if they have any intention of certifying it Double Platinum?

Saint John wrote:

Jeremey wrote:Nomota just shipped another 50,000 units of Revelation last quarter so by whatever standards you want to count, either the single package math or the official RIAA accounting status, at this point it has shipped 1 million physical units.

Wow ... I guess that begs the question; Do you know if they have any intention of certifying it Double Platinum?

Would probably depend if all those that were shipped have been sold.

Don wrote:

Saint John wrote:

Jeremey wrote:Nomota just shipped another 50,000 units of Revelation last quarter so by whatever standards you want to count, either the single package math or the official RIAA accounting status, at this point it has shipped 1 million physical units.

Wow ... I guess that begs the question; Do you know if they have any intention of certifying it Double Platinum?

Would probably depend if all those that were shipped have been sold.

If you take GH, Escape, Revelation and Eclipse, it seems like they're probably moving well above 10,000 units per week. The Schon, Cain and Perry royalty checks have to be pretty substantial. Then add in about 15k per show, or about 60k per week, for Schon and Cain. These guys are cashing monstrous checks.

I just can't imagine with Revelation selling that well why they don't dump La Do Da for Never Walk away. That was a fan favorite for the Revelation tour and even opened the show for a good amount of the tour. And it always went over really well. Hell, try Like A Sunshower! That's easy on the vocals. La Do Da? Seriously?!?

Saint John wrote:

Don wrote:

Saint John wrote:

Jeremey wrote:Nomota just shipped another 50,000 units of Revelation last quarter so by whatever standards you want to count, either the single package math or the official RIAA accounting status, at this point it has shipped 1 million physical units.

Wow ... I guess that begs the question; Do you know if they have any intention of certifying it Double Platinum?

Would probably depend if all those that were shipped have been sold.

If you take GH, Escape, Revelation and Eclipse, it seems like they're probably moving well above 10,000 units per week. The Schon, Cain and Perry royalty checks have to be pretty substantial. Then add in about 15k per show, or about 60k per week, for Schon and Cain. These guys are cashing monstrous checks.

I just can't imagine with Revelation selling that well why they don't dump La Do Da for Never Walk away. That was a fan favorite for the Revelation tour and even opened the show for a good amount of the tour. And it always went over really well. Hell, try Like A Sunshower! That's easy on the vocals. La Do Da? Seriously?!?

I was actually wondering the other day if Perry had stock in Apple. He was just bummiing around the studios again, when he did that backing vocal for the girl from Antigone Rising. There has to be some other way he is bringing in money besides royalties and licensing. Not that those wouldn't be enough but up until seven years ago, living well off of the back catalog wasn't a sure thing.

I did think a few months back that NWA should be in the setlist but now with only 15 songs, I'm not sure. Maybe rotate it in with others but definitely get rid of La Do Da.

This should spark some discussion:

Original Foreigner singer Lou Gramm isn't a big fan of the current version of the band.

Like Journey, when Foreigner lost its original voice they eventually replaced it with a virtual sound-alike; exit Gramm, enter Kelly Hansen.

In a new interview with Spinner, Gramm sounds off on the subject of having his voice, and vocal style, replicated. "It is [strange]. It totally is," says Gramm. "But what's stranger to me is that, as I've learned talking to people who see those shows, is that in many cases the audience, especially if they're younger, don't even know it's not the original lead singer."

"In Foreigner's case," continues Lou, "as I understand it, the singer was actually trained to deliver pretty much exactly everything as I did it, note for note. If I were in the audience and learned that while I was there, I'd get up and leave. I think when the band name remains the exact same, but something as important as the lead vocal is different, it's misleading. It's like false advertising."

Saint John wrote:This should spark some discussion:

Original Foreigner singer Lou Gramm isn't a big fan of the current version of the band.

Like Journey, when Foreigner lost its original voice they eventually replaced it with a virtual sound-alike; exit Gramm, enter Kelly Hansen.

In a new interview with Spinner, Gramm sounds off on the subject of having his voice, and vocal style, replicated. "It is [strange]. It totally is," says Gramm. "But what's stranger to me is that, as I've learned talking to people who see those shows, is that in many cases the audience, especially if they're younger, don't even know it's not the original lead singer."

"In Foreigner's case," continues Lou, "as I understand it, the singer was actually trained to deliver pretty much exactly everything as I did it, note for note. If I were in the audience and learned that while I was there, I'd get up and leave. I think when the band name remains the exact same, but something as important as the lead vocal is different, it's misleading. It's like false advertising."

That's funny because awhile back a few people were pointing at Gramm and saying "See, he gave props to his replacement (Hanson) so why can't Perry do the same for Arnel?" To be honest, I've never been able to verify if Lou did indeed having anything positive to say about Kelly but I didn't really look very hard either.
Lou is right about one thing though. As hard as it is to believe, there are still people out there who don't know that there has been a change at vocalist for a lot of these bands.
I've been reading the tweets for Journey and it's still amazing to read where people are surprised that it isn't Perry out there but an "Asian guy who sounds exactly like him". Now if a high profile band like Journey who had all the buzz about youtube and so on can't get the message out to everyone that they have a different singer, I would imagine it would be twice as unlikely for casual fans of Foreigner, Yes, INXS and other bands to know that there has been change behind the voice.

Saint John wrote:This should spark some discussion:

Original Foreigner singer Lou Gramm isn't a big fan of the current version of the band.

Like Journey, when Foreigner lost its original voice they eventually replaced it with a virtual sound-alike; exit Gramm, enter Kelly Hansen.

In a new interview with Spinner, Gramm sounds off on the subject of having his voice, and vocal style, replicated. "It is [strange]. It totally is," says Gramm. "But what's stranger to me is that, as I've learned talking to people who see those shows, is that in many cases the audience, especially if they're younger, don't even know it's not the original lead singer."

"In Foreigner's case," continues Lou, "as I understand it, the singer was actually trained to deliver pretty much exactly everything as I did it, note for note. If I were in the audience and learned that while I was there, I'd get up and leave. I think when the band name remains the exact same, but something as important as the lead vocal is different, it's misleading. It's like false advertising."

A lot of mixed feelings about this. There are so many variables to this equation, that saying you'd rather have the original guy or a clone come in is not really an easy answer. A lot depends upon who the song writers were, when did the band reach the height of its success, how unique and identifiable is/was that singer? With Journey, Perry was as much part of the song writing as Cain, and probably more so than Schon. So, not only did Journey lose a very identifiable lead vocalist, but a third of the song writing. They hired guys who could cover the classics in concert, but they haven't captured that magic in song writing that was there when all three song writers collaborated. I don't know how much Gramm contributed to the song writing of Foreigner's top hits, but I do know Foreigner's last album with Kelly Hansen was a great album, classic sound, and one that I could listen to from start to finish. Kelly Hansen fits Foreigner. Yet, Foreigner hasn't exactly had large commercial success with their new album, so it's kind of the same situation.

I'd say, if the original guy contributes more than just singing, and his voice was so recognizable that you knew it was THAT band on the radio, then I'd say going with the original singer is always the best bet, even if they couldn't cover the songs perfectly.

He makes great points and has every right to make them!!
Love Lou!!

I remember there was talk earlier this year or late last about Lou wanting to have one more go around with Foreigner and as much as the original lineup as possible. This may just be sour grapes on his part since that didn't happen.

I think the only band that could REALLY benefit from having their lead singer back is Styx. Dennis is out there with a product that is just as good or maybe even better. Both him and Styx are far from enjoying the resurgence in popularity that Journey and even Foreigner to a smaller extent are enjoying (Foreigner has many songs that continue to chart well around the world on iTunes and Amazon rock charts and they are a good concert draw in Europe to boot).

S2M wrote:I'm still amazed that they are still following the fuzzy math of Revelation's sales figures...platinum? Yeah, ok.

It is Platinum RIAA audited fair and square. The Revelation package was an inspired offering and folks jumped on it. You may not like it, but it is a fact

Don wrote:I think the only band that could REALLY benefit from having their lead singer back is Styx. Dennis is out there with a product that is just as good or maybe even better. Both him and Styx are far from enjoying the resurgence in popularity that Journey and even Foreigner to a smaller extent are enjoying (Foreigner has many songs that continue to chart well around the world on iTunes and Amazon rock charts and they are a good concert draw in Europe to boot).

This is so spot-on it almost hurts. DDY and Styx reunited would sound AWESOME. DDY is in unbelievable vocal form and the rest of Styx obviously enjoys touring. I don't know what would happen commercially for them from it, but from a pure fan's perspective, this would be unbelievably desirable.

Don wrote: To be honest, I've never been able to verify if Lou did indeed having anything positive to say about Kelly but I didn't really look very hard either.

Me neither. I've see nothing but bashing from Lou since he quit the band.

And he quit, it's not ambiguous like perry's ouster.

I agree 'casual' fans of these bands often don't realize there has been a lead singer change. I never saw Foreigner with Gramm but have seen them ive with Kelly Hanson. I thought he did a great job. The same with Styx. I never saw them live with DeYoung but have seen the current lineup and have been impressed. Anyway, I know Gramm had a brain tumor and then did reunite with Foreigner sometime after having it removed. Why did he then leave?

Onestepper wrote:Actually kind of a refreshing interview about stuff we normally don't hear a lot about. I know the Shirley thing had been reported previously, but I liked the non talking points material that he thew out there about the process. Good interview.

I agree. Straight talk is good talk.

S2M wrote:

Saint John wrote:

S2M wrote:I'm still amazed that they are still following the fuzzy math of Revelation's sales figures...platinum? Yeah, ok.

It was a 2 disc set and moved about 750,000 units. Multiply that by 2 and you've sold 1.5 million discs. What's so hard to figure out about that? Besides, worldwide, I'm sure it has moved over a million physical units, though I'm aware that those wouldn't count toward the RIAA's certification. At any rate, it was a highly successful album and put a lot of loot in everyone's pocket that had writing credits on the album. Everybody wins.

Still fuzzy math. It is a package deal. Does a 12-disc boxset achieve platinum status in 1/12 the time as...say....Frontiers? It is a package. All the discs are packaged together. I'm sure the bill of lading at the local music store shows units ordered as each copy of Revelation, not each disc included separately. For RIAA to have different standards is ghey...they just do it to spark sales. "WOW, that disc is already gold?! It must be good!"

Dude, it is the way it is...and it's been that way since the dawn of time. You record two album's worth of material and package together, it gets counted as 2 records. And 750,000 of a ROCK album in this era is astounding.

S2M wrote:

Jeremey wrote:Nomota just shipped another 50,000 units of Revelation last quarter so by whatever standards you want to count, either the single package math or the official RIAA accounting status, at this point it has shipped 1 million physical units.

My bad. Just looked in the Thesaurus. Shipped is a synonym of sold. Sorry.

Don't need a Thesaurus, just look at what the RIAA qualifications are for a platinum release. You can argue about "fuzzy math" all you want but at the end of the day, you're still just flat out wrong.

Saint John wrote:

Don wrote:

Saint John wrote:

Jeremey wrote:Nomota just shipped another 50,000 units of Revelation last quarter so by whatever standards you want to count, either the single package math or the official RIAA accounting status, at this point it has shipped 1 million physical units.

Wow ... I guess that begs the question; Do you know if they have any intention of certifying it Double Platinum?

Would probably depend if all those that were shipped have been sold.

If you take GH, Escape, Revelation and Eclipse, it seems like they're probably moving well above 10,000 units per week. The Schon, Cain and Perry royalty checks have to be pretty substantial. Then add in about 15k per show, or about 60k per week, for Schon and Cain. These guys are cashing monstrous checks.

I just can't imagine with Revelation selling that well why they don't dump La Do Da for Never Walk away. That was a fan favorite for the Revelation tour and even opened the show for a good amount of the tour. And it always went over really well. Hell, try Like A Sunshower! That's easy on the vocals. La Do Da? Seriously?!?

Journey seems to send mixed signals a lot. Schon talks about moving forward and all that but then has nothing from Revelation and very little from Eclipse in the show. They say they want to move ahead but yet they keep playing the same songs over and over. I realize they have to play the hits but like you say why La Do Da? I like the song but why not Someone or She's a Mystery or After All These Years or Never Walk Away?