MR

Interesting to think about. Mick Jones has now been out 2 nites in a row on the Eclipse tour. Apparently Joel Hoekstra from Night Ranger has been filling in. So if Mick (the only original Foreigner member) can't complete the tour what happens??

btw...it was driving me crazy where I'd seen Joel Hoekstra before. He was in the TSO east tour. I took tons of pictures

If I recall correctly, they said in Charlotte that it was Joel's third performance with them on Sunday night. A friend got us hooked up with Foreigner meet and greet passes and the woman who oversaw it told us all that Mick's having some tests done, but everything looks good.

If he can't come back out on the tour, I'm sure they'll still finish it. It's sad to say, but probably 90% of the people in the crowd have no idea who Mick is, much less that he's not out there. I'd be willing to bet they'd have Joel fill in the entire time if needed. I mean, between the Night Ranger set and the Foreigner set, he's still playing less than two hours a night.

Foreigner was great (especially Hansen), but I did remark to someone that we were watching a Foreigner cover band, since there was no one from the original six on stage.

Oh, and I saw some footage from the "Rock of Ages" Broadway show and saw Joel on stage in that as well.

You could tell he was a little apprehensive on some of the tunes Sunday night, but he played the solos well.

How is that Foreigner without Jones

UncleKG wrote:If I recall correctly, they said in Charlotte that it was Joel's third performance with them on Sunday night. A friend got us hooked up with Foreigner meet and greet passes and the woman who oversaw it told us all that Mick's having some tests done, but everything looks good.

If he can't come back out on the tour, I'm sure they'll still finish it. It's sad to say, but probably 90% of the people in the crowd have no idea who Mick is, much less that he's not out there. I'd be willing to bet they'd have Joel fill in the entire time if needed. I mean, between the Night Ranger set and the Foreigner set, he's still playing less than two hours a night.

Foreigner was great (especially Hansen), but I did remark to someone that we were watching a Foreigner cover band, since there was no one from the original six on stage.

Oh, and I saw some footage from the "Rock of Ages" Broadway show and saw Joel on stage in that as well.

You could tell he was a little apprehensive on some of the tunes Sunday night, but he played the solos well.

So did Joel show up at the M&G j/k.

jestor92 wrote:How is that Foreigner without Jones

Well, think of it this way. It's a current Foreigner tour...which means you'll get great Foreigner music wedged in between Night Ranger & Journey. Does it really have to be any original player as long as the crowd gets the music they want? Yes, and no. It's the headliner that counts, perhaps?


later~

jestor92 wrote:How is that Foreigner without Jones

It's like Journey would be without Neal.

jestor92 wrote:How is that Foreigner without Jones

It's not Foreigner without Lou.

madsplash wrote:

jestor92 wrote:How is that Foreigner without Jones

It's not Foreigner without Lou.

tsk tsk tsk! The lead singer is only one of the parts that make up the act.

steveo777 wrote:

jestor92 wrote:How is that Foreigner without Jones

It's like Journey would be without Neal.

Try again. Without The Voice.

Journey-Lite.

steveo777 wrote:

madsplash wrote:

jestor92 wrote:How is that Foreigner without Jones

It's not Foreigner without Lou.

tsk tsk tsk! The lead singer is only one of the parts that make up the act.

The most important, most identifiable part.

madsplash wrote:

steveo777 wrote:

madsplash wrote:

jestor92 wrote:How is that Foreigner without Jones

It's not Foreigner without Lou.

tsk tsk tsk! The lead singer is only one of the parts that make up the act.

The most important, most identifiable part.

So, I guess, by your standard that makes all these bands frauds?

Silly question, Steveo. He'll proudly answer "yes."

Madsplash, I noticed you didn't address my Britney Spears-vs.-Steve Perry sales argument in the other thread.

steveo777 wrote:

madsplash wrote:

steveo777 wrote:

madsplash wrote:

jestor92 wrote:How is that Foreigner without Jones

It's not Foreigner without Lou.

tsk tsk tsk! The lead singer is only one of the parts that make up the act.

The most important, most identifiable part.

So, I guess, by your standard that makes all these bands frauds?

Not frauds, just not up to their original greatness. And that's OK. No matter how much they would like to be what they once were, without the most important members of the band, they will never be anything other than really great tribute/cover bands.

madsplash wrote:

steveo777 wrote:

madsplash wrote:

steveo777 wrote:

madsplash wrote:

jestor92 wrote:How is that Foreigner without Jones

It's not Foreigner without Lou.

tsk tsk tsk! The lead singer is only one of the parts that make up the act.

The most important, most identifiable part.

So, I guess, by your standard that makes all these bands frauds?

Not frauds, just not up to their original greatness. And that's OK. No matter how much they would like to be what they once were, without the most important members of the band, they will never be anything other than really great tribute/cover bands.

Nah, Journey still has Cain, so all's good.

Gideon wrote:Silly question, Steveo. He'll proudly answer "yes."

Madsplash, I noticed you didn't address my Britney Spears-vs.-Steve Perry sales argument in the other thread.

Dude, if you're gonna compare anything to what 14 year old, hormonal females bought, as far as Britney's sales go, that's a silly comparison and you know it.

It's real simple math. Show me what Neal's sold without any other members of Journey involved at all, versus what SP has sold without any other members of Journey involved at all.

I'd say that's roughly 3.5 million for Perry against tens of thousands for Neal. And please don't bring up Bad English. Loved them, but JC was there.

Bottom line....Journey is still great and kicks most any other modern band's ass. But without The Voice, they're never going to be anything close to what they were.


And without them, he's never going to be what he once was. So it's all good.

madsplash wrote:Dude, if you're gonna compare anything to what 14 year old, hormonal females bought, as far as Britney's sales go, that's a silly comparison and you know it.

Actually, no, it's a perfectly valid comparison. According to you (and others), old!Journey is greater than new!Journey or Neal and Jon Cain by virtue of album sales. I simply turned that paradigm against you: Britney Spears' ...Baby One More Time album has outsold all of Perry's solo efforts. So, by your reckoning, Spears is not only commercially superior to Perry, but creatively as well.

madsplash wrote:It's real simple math.

The beautiful thing about math is it's not selective. It's universal and applies logically; if I concede to your claim, you must naturally concede to mine. Unless math works differently for Steve Perry?

Gideon wrote:

madsplash wrote:Dude, if you're gonna compare anything to what 14 year old, hormonal females bought, as far as Britney's sales go, that's a silly comparison and you know it.

Actually, no, it's a perfectly valid comparison. According to you (and others), old!Journey is greater than new!Journey or Neal and Jon Cain by virtue of album sales. I simply turned that paradigm against you: Britney Spears' ...Baby One More Time album has outsold all of Perry's solo efforts. So, by your reckoning, Spears is not only commercially superior to Perry, but creatively as well.

madsplash wrote:It's real simple math.

The beautiful thing about math is it's not selective. It's universal and applies logically; if I concede to your claim, you must naturally concede to mine. Unless math works differently for Steve Perry?

Yes, to 12-15 year old girls/ I won't argue that. To musicians (such as myself..are you?) It's not even close. Perry is a legend. Britney is a cute pop-tart who sold many records to young girls.

madsplash wrote:

steveo777 wrote:So, I guess, by your standard that makes all these bands frauds?

Not frauds, just not up to their original greatness. And that's OK. No matter how much they would like to be what they once were, without the most important members of the band, they will never be anything other than really great tribute/cover bands.

But this is big business. As far as revenue goes, they certainly are "up to their original greatness".
I mean, Ford still makes great cars & trucks, but Henry has long been gone, no?

I for one always embraced the "corporate rock" moniker. That just tells me that they are very, very smart.
Wouldn't you & I both love to create a product that keeps selling? And that is exactly what NS & JC are doing. And yes, it's exactly what Perry is doing also.

Look at any 'entertainment entity' - KISS, Elton John, Barry Manilow, Garth Brooks, Daryl Hall, and many others. It's all about keeping the product selling. And it does...over & over. Elvis?


later~

madsplash wrote:

Gideon wrote:

madsplash wrote:Dude, if you're gonna compare anything to what 14 year old, hormonal females bought, as far as Britney's sales go, that's a silly comparison and you know it.

Actually, no, it's a perfectly valid comparison. According to you (and others), old!Journey is greater than new!Journey or Neal and Jon Cain by virtue of album sales. I simply turned that paradigm against you: Britney Spears' ...Baby One More Time album has outsold all of Perry's solo efforts. So, by your reckoning, Spears is not only commercially superior to Perry, but creatively as well.

madsplash wrote:It's real simple math.

The beautiful thing about math is it's not selective. It's universal and applies logically; if I concede to your claim, you must naturally concede to mine. Unless math works differently for Steve Perry?

Yes, to 12-15 year old girls/ I won't argue that. To musicians (such as myself..are you?) It's not even close. Perry is a legend. Britney is a cute pop-tart who sold many records to young girls.

...Except, just as all of Spears' albums weren't purchased by strictly 12-15 year olds, Perry's albums weren't purchased by strictly musicians. There is only one factually valid conclusion here, my friend: Your logic is flawed.

Make any argument you like about Perry being better than Journey or whatever, but at least be fair and rational.

madsplash wrote:Show me what Neal's sold without any other members of Journey involved at all, versus what SP has sold without any other members of Journey involved at all.

Neal wins. FTLOSM sold about 500,000 and that's not more than Hear N Aid and the first few Journey albums. Also, Santana III was a number one record, but Greg Rolie was on it, but it does predate Journey.

Saint John wrote:

madsplash wrote:Show me what Neal's sold without any other members of Journey involved at all, versus what SP has sold without any other members of Journey involved at all.

Neal wins. FTLOSM sold about 500,000 and that's not more than Hear N Aid and the first few Journey albums. Also, Santana III was a number one record, but Greg Rolie was on it, but it does predate Journey.

Are you drunk? Street Talk and FTLOSM is about 3.5 million. No Journey band members on those. And , genius, the first few Journey albums had...members of Journey on them. Even though they sold almost nothing from that Neal led era.

It's a bad comparison for Neal. Not fair. He hasn't come close to that. And before we go on, Neal is my favorite guitarist of all time.

Perry wins. And hasn't played or recorded (released) in 13+ years.

It's all good, guys. I love Arnel, Neal and current Journey also.

We're splitting hairs.

Get used to this. Mick can't make a few dates and he owns Foreigner, and if he wants them to continue they will. I doubt anyone will miss his presence and that is not a slap on him at all.

Still preparing myself when KISS will have ZERO original members. That is going to happen. Gene and Paul will be pulling the strings, writing the songs and keeping the "brand" alive though.

I won't support it, but I do get it from a business standpoint.

AR wrote:Get used to this. Mick can't make a few dates and he owns Foreigner, and if he wants them to continue they will. I doubt anyone will miss his presence and that is not a slap on him at all.

Still preparing myself when KISS will have ZERO original members. That is going to happen. Gene and Paul will be pulling the strings, writing the songs and keeping the "brand" alive though.

I won't support it, but I do get it from a business standpoint.

That is a key word there. Brand is everything and where all future, and in Journey's case, past revenue comes from. Journey is most definitely, undeniably a brand....a mighty important one at that. At the same time, Steve Perry is also a brand, and an important one too. The way I see it, everyone involved wins.

I don't care how good Foreigner sounds...and I can't wait to find out...but don't give me the Journey "karaoke" shit anymore....

Maui Tom wrote:I don't care how good Foreigner sounds...and I can't wait to find out...but don't give me the Journey "karaoke" shit anymore....

Tom, please elaborate. Are you saying you don't like Journey lately, or are you dissing the karaoke comments that some people make about Journey? I hope it's the latter.

steveo777 wrote:

Maui Tom wrote:I don't care how good Foreigner sounds...and I can't wait to find out...but don't give me the Journey "karaoke" shit anymore....

Tom, please elaborate. Are you saying you don't like Journey lately, or are you dissing the karaoke comments that some people make about Journey? I hope it's the latter.

I am tired of the JOURNEY karaoke reference.....

Maui Tom wrote:

steveo777 wrote:

Maui Tom wrote:I don't care how good Foreigner sounds...and I can't wait to find out...but don't give me the Journey "karaoke" shit anymore....

Tom, please elaborate. Are you saying you don't like Journey lately, or are you dissing the karaoke comments that some people make about Journey? I hope it's the latter.

I am tired of the JOURNEY karaoke reference.....

Thanks! Me too. It's absolute bullshit, coming from people of weak minds. Arnel has mostly sung live for his entire career. Karaoke is an Asian stigma, simply because that is a very popular pastime over there. Such comments only reveal ignorance.

Hope it's not catching. Apparantly, Arnel took a tumble tonight. Was limping a bit and favoring his right wrist afterwords. He fell about six feet after tripping over his shoelace. Just bruised up from what I read, no sprains or anything.

Well crap....I was thinking about a sarcastic reply to what could happen if the middle band needs to pull out!! Do they get a replacement or what?? Journey was definitely in a better place on the Leppard tour than Foreigner

Anyway, now it's just best wishes to Mick Jones and Arnel!!