MR

Here are my thoughts on re-recording Arrival.

-Don't! Re-recording something 10 years later that was a relative flop is insanely stupid! Let me guess ... Eclipse is slated for a 2021 re-record, too?!?

-Learn from your mistakes. Arrival and Eclipse were both somewhere between good and very good products, but the real problems lie on the periphery. You need to put together a complete package and launch a release with promotion. Leave no stone unturned. Put together a nice cover, a nice booklet inside, a multi-disc package with no re-records and a DVD. Price it like Revelation and plan, in advance, your tour to support it and be around for the release this time. Use iTunes and Amazon, and let Best Buy be your physical retailer. In short, do everything the exact opposite as you did for Eclipse! Go in with the mindset "We've got one shot at this. Let's make sure we make this product and release perfect!" This dopey mindset that you can go back and fix something 10 years later will ultimately be responsible for more poor album launches. You get one shot, guys. That's it!

-Leave the Augeri era alone. Let that timeline for the band rest in peace. Steve Augeri gave the fans many years of song, memories, friendships and happiness. Show that era some fucking respect. Re-recording songs that aren't mandated as part of a deal seems devoid of vision and makes you seem creatively bankrupt. You love Eclipse ... but you've dropped from 4 songs to 2. You think it has "long legs" ... but you refused to play Anything Is Possible while it was charting. You love being creative ... but you want to re-record a 10 year old album. Man, this band is lacking management and leadership. Get together and get on the same page, and forget about re-recording albums from earlier eras.

I'd like a version of Higher Place with stronger vocals. Maybe make it a bonus track on the next album. That's it.

I think re-recording "Faith In The Heartland" and "The Place in Your Heart" were more than enough when it comes to giving previously recorded songs a 'second chance'. Deen said you guys went in the studio with around 30 songs for Eclipse. i would assume there were a few ballads in there somewhere.
Time for a package deal again.
Do a three disc package with one light/pop disc and one dark/heavy disc bundled with a DVD that showcases live any Arrival songs you want to revisit and a few songs off of Eclipse along with a slim downed version of the Dirty Dozen. As Saint John said, sell it through Best Buy for an attractive price ($13.99?) with the audio tracks available on iTunes And Amazon from day one and advertised as such during your pre-launch promo spots.

Eric wrote:I'd like a version of Higher Place with stronger vocals. Maybe make it a bonus track on the next album. That's it.

Ok, now this is an intriguing idea. I'd be ok with this, but take this horrible part of the song out. I've always thought it's what made it a mediocre song:

Oh, I crash... and burn inside my mind
It happens time and time again,
I can't explain the way you make me feel
Oh, I know... I don't have much to give
But what I have I give to you with all the madness left inside of me
With the madness left inside of me... oh

That little meandering blurb kills the momentum and forces me to immediately turn the song off every time I hear it. Lose it.

Saint John wrote:Here are my thoughts on re-recording Arrival.

-Don't! Re-recording something 10 years later that was a relative flop is insanely stupid! Let me guess ... Eclipse is slated for a 2021 re-record, too?!?

-Learn from your mistakes. Arrival and Eclipse were both somewhere between good and very good products, but the real problems lie on the periphery. You need to put together a complete package and launch a release with promotion. Leave no stone unturned. Put together a nice cover, a nice booklet inside, a multi-disc package with no re-records and a DVD. Price it like Revelation and plan, in advance, your tour to support it and be around for the release this time. Use iTunes and Amazon, and let Best Buy be your physical retailer. In short, do everything the exact opposite as you did for Eclipse! Go in with the mindset "We've got one shot at this. Let's make sure we make this product and release perfect!" This dopey mindset that you can go back and fix something 10 years later will ultimately be responsible for more poor album launches. You get one shot, guys. That's it!

-Leave the Augeri era alone. Let that timeline for the band rest in peace. Steve Augeri gave the fans many years of song,
memories, friendships and happiness. Show that era some fucking respect. Re-recording songs that aren't mandated as
part of a deal seems devoid of vision and makes you seem creatively bankrupt. You love Eclipse ... but you've dropped from 4 songs to 2. You think it has "long legs" ... but you refused to play Anything Is Possible while it was charting. You
love being creative ... but you want to re-record a 10 year old album. Man, this band is lacking management and leadership. Get together and get on the same page, and forget about re-recording albums from earlier eras.

I agree with all of this. I still say do a live album next. Throwvin some Arrival tunes also, and either make it a one disc offering with three or four newly written songs or do a new album and make it a two disc package with an eclectic live album.

What disturbs me a bit is that Arnel may be a big instigator in this re-recording idea. If I were him, I would be hammering the guys to let me be more involved in helping write the next album. If this means I need to spend an extra month in the states living at Jon's house when this tour is over, so be it. Journey isn't going to be around forever, I would want to put my stamp on something other than just being a vocal instrument on every album during my tenure with the band. A lot of collaborations happen with two artists kicking it around the piano at someones crib, why not give it a try; it worked pretty well with Cain and Perry.

Saint John wrote:

Eric wrote:I'd like a version of Higher Place with stronger vocals. Maybe make it a bonus track on the next album. That's it.

Ok, now this is an intriguing idea. I'd be ok with this, but take this horrible part of the song out. I've always thought it's what made it a mediocre song:

Oh, I crash... and burn inside my mind
It happens time and time again,
I can't explain the way you make me feel
Oh, I know... I don't have much to give
But what I have I give to you with all the madness left inside of me
With the madness left inside of me... oh

That little meandering blurb kills the momentum and forces me to immediately turn the song off every time I hear it. Lose it.

One man's "meandering blurb" is another man's "great pre-solo bridge".

Pelata wrote:

Saint John wrote:

Eric wrote:I'd like a version of Higher Place with stronger vocals. Maybe make it a bonus track on the next album. That's it.

Ok, now this is an intriguing idea. I'd be ok with this, but take this horrible part of the song out. I've always thought it's what made it a mediocre song:

Oh, I crash... and burn inside my mind
It happens time and time again,
I can't explain the way you make me feel
Oh, I know... I don't have much to give
But what I have I give to you with all the madness left inside of me
With the madness left inside of me... oh

That little meandering blurb kills the momentum and forces me to immediately turn the song off every time I hear it. Lose it.

One man's "meandering blurb" is another man's "great pre-solo bridge".

Agreed. I actually love that part of the song. The whole song in general is one of my favorites in their entire canon.

I still maintain that the next release should be a live album, perhaps of songs culled from this tour. Put that out in the spring/summer, tour behind Eclipse and Eclipse Tour Live in 2012 and then go back into the studio for a new album in 2013 (maybe the last album). Package it with a disc of acoustic versions of the classics and a live DVD. Tour behind the new album in 2013-14 and that could wrap up the career.

I think a live album/DVD is a smart idea. I realize they've already put out 2 w/ Arnel, but as was stated, a "Live Eclipse" album & DVD would be cool...

Deen-O:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLOFFkFh ... re=related

Arnel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CN7FPL4g ... re=related

JSS:
Gone from Youtube, but he did it in Newcastle on 2/3/07. Maybe someone else can find it elsewhere.

Arnel needs to get some post Journey residuals set up... so he needs to get some songwriter credits...


Re-recording Arrival songs ain't gonna do that...

Eric wrote:Deen-O:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLOFFkFh ... re=related

Arnel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CN7FPL4g ... re=related

Cool. I like Arnel's interpretation. The song seems too low for Deen. He doesn't have power in the lower parts, which is weird to say as he's such a great singer.
I never knew they covered this with Arnel. He does a great a job with it.
Funny how you can hear the sequence count off with Deen's. It'd be cool if they put this one in and yanked LTS as far as I'm concerned.

brywool wrote:

Eric wrote:Deen-O:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLOFFkFh ... re=related

Arnel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CN7FPL4g ... re=related

Cool. I like Arnel's interpretation. The song seems too low for Deen. He doesn't have power in the lower parts, which is weird to say as he's such a great singer.
I never knew they covered this with Arnel. He does a great a job with it.
Funny how you can hear the sequence count off with Deen's. It'd be cool if they put this one in and yanked LTS as far as I'm concerned.

Me too. AP sounded great on that. I can never hear Deen well enough to make a good judgement. I think they keep his mic turned down to the backing vocal level.

Pelata wrote:

Saint John wrote:

Eric wrote:I'd like a version of Higher Place with stronger vocals. Maybe make it a bonus track on the next album. That's it.

Ok, now this is an intriguing idea. I'd be ok with this, but take this horrible part of the song out. I've always thought it's what made it a mediocre song:

Oh, I crash... and burn inside my mind
It happens time and time again,
I can't explain the way you make me feel
Oh, I know... I don't have much to give
But what I have I give to you with all the madness left inside of me
With the madness left inside of me... oh

That little meandering blurb kills the momentum and forces me to immediately turn the song off every time I hear it. Lose it.

One man's "meandering blurb" is another man's "great pre-solo bridge".

Exactly. There's more hook in that one bridge than all of Eclipse combined. Classic Journey!

I see no purpose in re-recording Arrival or any of those songs. I agree that if they want to put something live out in the future that has a couple Arrival tracks on it that is one thing. They had to do the re-records of the GH for the Walmart deal and I believe that was the plan regardless to who the lead singer was at the time. Personally, going back and redoing all the Augeri era songs or "singles" gives the impression that they (Neal) in retrospect wasn't happy with Augeri's vocals or the entire era of the band and now wants to redo the tracks with his boy Arnel. There's just no need to do it.

I also agree that Arnel needs to put his mark on the band and constantly redoing the songs of the previous singers isn't going to do that.

Does Journey really want to re-record a CD from the Augeri era and have the question surface "Hey, why did that guy leave the band?" I see a lot of risk and very little reward, should they undertake that endeavor.

Saint John wrote:Does Journey really want to re-record a CD from the Augeri era and have the question surface "Hey, why did that guy leave the band?" I see a lot of risk and very little reward, should they undertake that endeavor.

Personally don't think many people would care enough to ask the question this far removed, and really don't think many care or know about tapegate, and the band could easily spin it to make it a non-issue. I maybe totally wrong. Regardless, it's a nice thought that they say they would entertain the idea of redoing these songs, but when the rubber meets the road my guess is that Neal would likely rather move ahead and do something new then redo something from the past. Again, when they tour alone in the smaller venues and can do a 2+ hour show, toss a couple in the set for Arnel to sing for sh*ts and giggles, and put out a live disc or release a couple live tracks to iTunes like many bands do these days.

Someday when the machine starts to slow down, I could certainly see them do another boxset that includes all singers with live tracks and demos from every era. If they continue to have Arnel re-record everything it cheapens the value of the other eras, IMO.

I could see them playing a song off Arrival live if it's an "Evening With Journey" and they are playing a longer set without 2 other bands on the bill, but that is about it.

Plus you can go see Steve Augeri and hear a few off of the CD these days.

Don, I owe you an apology: I never thought they'd actually consider doing this.

Sony has been pretty slick about riding current Journey and getting their back catalog noticed.
If I were them, I would release a combo CD/DVD pack of Arrival/2001 DVD a week before Journey's street date and underprice it to boot.
I dont think either effort will sell tons but Sony has nothing to lose with this strategy.

I must have missed something about this -- is it actually being considered? My vote... NO!!!!!!!

Rip Rokken wrote:I must have missed something about this -- is it actually being considered? My vote... NO!!!!!!!

Talk to your buddy, Rip.

If they want to re-record Arrival or any of the Augeri era in general schedule a 180 min set wherever you have the biggest following. Let the people know in advance it's being taped and what you're taping and play 90 mins worth of music from the Augeri era and 90 mins of the Perry/Arnel era. Release the concert on DVD and cd and promote it.

If they don't want to do that then leave it the fuck alone because there isn't a reason to show their dedicated fan base that they're now a karaokee band more than re-recording an album from an era of the band that had next to no popularity.

As said earlier, I would much rather see Arnel take a month after the tour and spend it at Jon's house. A lot of great Journey music came from Cain and Perry sitting around the piano (this is probably true for a lot of great bands). Besides, Arnel's family is with him on tour so it won't be like he is going to be suffering from being apart for a month.
I know 'revival' albums have always been the hot thing for Filipino musicians but I believe Arnel's natural progression as a Journey band member should see him being a vital part of the creation process on the next Journey album.

OK...I just want the fan show. Maybe 3 nights, play a bit of everything and use this as an add-on DVD to the next CD. ...and if Gregg Rolie showed up that would be fantastic! They can pick and choose the music from all 3 nights for the DVD.

YEAH!! I know I'm dreaming here!!

Rip Rokken wrote:I must have missed something about this -- is it actually being considered? My vote... NO!!!!!!!

^^^This. Please leave this album alone. I didn't care for the re-records, and wouldn't care for this either.

Arnel is very good and should stand on his own. They want to do it live, go for it, but re-recording it is just going to make me hang onto my original that much more.

3 disc set idea: Arrival live, Eclipse live, and a DVD of Arrival/Eclipse/DD songs in concert. They should just book a few nights at a nice theatre somewhere to record this- a real treat for the diehards.

No-- the new stuff is so good. March forward, don't look back--JSS (W.E.T.)

I'm against re-recording Arrival. However, one thing to note is that the Augeri-era is sort of lost to time. You can't find Arrival or Vegas 2001 anywhere anymore. Footage from Vegas 2001 has even been pulled by Sony from YouTube. Sad.

The_Noble_Cause wrote:I'm against re-recording Arrival. However, one thing to note is that the Augeri-era is sort of lost to time. You can't find Arrival or Vegas 2001 anywhere anymore. Footage from Vegas 2001 has even been pulled by Sony from YouTube. Sad.

I saw Arrival in our local Wal-Mart last week.