MR

I have the new Chickenfoot CD and it's fantastic! Will it sell better than Eclipse?

Probably...even if only a little.

Chickenfoot is a band with only 3 years of history and 2 strong albums...there are no expectations.

Journey is a band with 35 years of history, 5 lead singers, and have a new album trying to reinvent themselves...there are a lot of expectations from fans that, aside from live hits, the band doesn't appear to be delivering.

jrnyjetster wrote:I have the new Chickenfoot CD and it's fantastic! Will it sell better than Eclipse?

there was tons of hype leading up to it from the band via emails and facebook posts, the release of a single and video just about 2 months before release, videos telling the story of the song and how it came to be and then a snippet of it every day. then the live webcast (for free) of the cd in its entirety on release day. then the announcement of the mini tour right after the release. chickenfoot knows how to utilize the internet and social networking to reach their fans. i would think from all that, plus the success of the first cd it would sell pretty well.

MCC620 wrote: chickenfoot knows how to utilize the internet and social networking to reach their fans.

I know, Journey is severely lacking in this area. Management and WalMart haven't done jack shit in my opinion, as far as promoting Eclipse. The setlists are down to just one song now, City Of Hope. I seriously don't get it and guess I never will. Journey definitely frustrates the hell out of their diehard fans. Do I see the big picture? Probably...BUT why go through the trouble of releasing a CD of new material, if you don't have enough confidence to play it live?

jrnyjetster wrote:

MCC620 wrote: chickenfoot knows how to utilize the internet and social networking to reach their fans.

I know, Journey is severely lacking in this area. Management and WalMart hasn't done jack shit in my opinion, as far as promoting Eclipse. The setlists are down to just one song now, City Of Hope. I seriously don't get it and guess I never will. Journey definitely frustrates the hell out of their diehard fans. Do I see the big picture? Probably...BUT why go through the trouble of releasing a CD of new material, if you don't have enough confidence to play it live?

"diehard fans" (assuming you mean fans who want new music) probably make up about 5% of the people in the seats...

Pelata wrote:

jrnyjetster wrote:

MCC620 wrote: chickenfoot knows how to utilize the internet and social networking to reach their fans.

I know, Journey is severely lacking in this area. Management and WalMart hasn't done jack shit in my opinion, as far as promoting Eclipse. The setlists are down to just one song now, City Of Hope. I seriously don't get it and guess I never will. Journey definitely frustrates the hell out of their diehard fans. Do I see the big picture? Probably...BUT why go through the trouble of releasing a CD of new material, if you don't have enough confidence to play it live?

"diehard fans" (assuming you mean fans who want new music) probably make up about 5% of the people in the seats...

I think alot of that depends on the band and the country. Much higher percentage of diehards for some bands. It has always blown me away how in places like Japan, Manila, Europe etc. a band like MB can pull out some obscure rare song out of their catalogue and have an arena/coliseum full of people singing along to the lyrics and it's not even their first language. Now those are diehards/loyal. Like this one in Manila, this one didn't hit the charts or anything, just a song off their first album, but the crowd definitely knows the lyrics...... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1wx3IeiLNg

jrnyjetster wrote:I have the new Chickenfoot CD and it's fantastic! Will it sell better than Eclipse?

It's already sold almost half of Eclipse's Total sales just on it debut so I would say yes.

Chickenfoot III will far outsell Eclipse simply because the Big Corporate Machine
that tells everyone from radio, video television, and media 'what is cool and relevant'
has deemed Chickenfoot 'cool and relevant'.

And that is not a knock on Chickenfoot by any means. It is just the way of the business.
Journey is considered a 'nostalgia' act or 'dinosaur rock'...
Chickenfoot, with that line-up, is considered a super-hip supergroup.

It is really not a fair comparison because the odds were stacked against Journey a long time ago.

Deb wrote:

Pelata wrote:

jrnyjetster wrote:

MCC620 wrote: chickenfoot knows how to utilize the internet and social networking to reach their fans.

I know, Journey is severely lacking in this area. Management and WalMart hasn't done jack shit in my opinion, as far as promoting Eclipse. The setlists are down to just one song now, City Of Hope. I seriously don't get it and guess I never will. Journey definitely frustrates the hell out of their diehard fans. Do I see the big picture? Probably...BUT why go through the trouble of releasing a CD of new material, if you don't have enough confidence to play it live?

"diehard fans" (assuming you mean fans who want new music) probably make up about 5% of the people in the seats...

I think alot of that depends on the band and the country. Much higher percentage of diehards for some bands. It has always blown me away how in places like Japan, Manila, Europe etc. a band like MB can pull out some obscure rare song out of their catalogue and have an arena/coliseum full of people singing along to the lyrics and it's not even their first language. Now those are diehards/loyal. Like this one in Manila, this one didn't hit the charts or anything, just a song off their first album, but the crowd definitely knows the lyrics...... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1wx3IeiLNg

I was speaking of Journey specificially...

Carlitto H@kk wrote:Chickenfoot III will far outsell Eclipse simply because the Big Corporate Machine
that tells everyone from radio, video television, and media 'what is cool and relevant'
has deemed Chickenfoot 'cool and relevant'.

And that is not a knock on Chickenfoot by any means. It is just the way of the business.
Journey is considered a 'nostalgia' act or 'dinosaur rock'...
Chickenfoot, with that line-up, is considered a super-hip supergroup.

It is really not a fair comparison because the odds were stacked against Journey a long time ago.

sorry carl, it has nothing to do with the big corporate machine. journey has allowed themselves to continue being the nostalgia act. they had a chance to break out with all the arnel hype and they go add retreads to the package because walmart said so. then they take things in a "new direction" and at the slightest resistance from the fans, back away from their new material half way thru the tour and you're right back at the dirty dozen and nostalgia. night ranger pushed the new tune every night along with the new cd and they only got 30 minutes of stage time. they created a video to showcase their new single.

quite honestly i have not seen or heard chickenfoot on the radio or tv this go around. with the first cd yes. the bottom line is that they are internet social network monsters, they give their fans what they want which is updates, interaction and finally music that doesn't suck

I don't care who you are...the music business is 90% luck/timing and 10% talent. Lots of supertalented artists deserve recognition and never get a break. Had Herbie Herbert made any timing errors in his launching of Journey, they'd have never made Infinity...

MCC620 wrote:

Carlitto H@kk wrote:Chickenfoot III will far outsell Eclipse simply because the Big Corporate Machine
that tells everyone from radio, video television, and media 'what is cool and relevant'
has deemed Chickenfoot 'cool and relevant'.

And that is not a knock on Chickenfoot by any means. It is just the way of the business.
Journey is considered a 'nostalgia' act or 'dinosaur rock'...
Chickenfoot, with that line-up, is considered a super-hip supergroup.

It is really not a fair comparison because the odds were stacked against Journey a long time ago.

sorry carl, it has nothing to do with the big corporate machine. journey has allowed themselves to continue being the nostalgia act. they had a chance to break out with all the arnel hype and they go add retreads to the package because walmart said so. then they take things in a "new direction" and at the slightest resistance from the fans, back away from their new material half way thru the tour and you're right back at the dirty dozen and nostalgia. night ranger pushed the new tune every night along with the new cd and they only got 30 minutes of stage time. they created a video to showcase their new single.

quite honestly i have not seen or heard chickenfoot on the radio or tv this go around. with the first cd yes. the bottom line is that they are internet social network monsters, they give their fans what they want which is updates, interaction and finally music that doesn't suck

I agree with you whole-heartedly, Maria! Thats why I said Journey had the odds stacked against them a long time ago.
Granted, they brought MOST of it on themselves with all the things you've mentioned, but even if they did things different,
they still would have been pigeonholed in that 'nostalgia' category. And it really doesn't matter who is singing at this point;
Augeri, Soto, Jeremey, Arnel, Kevin Chalfant, "insert name here"... Once Perry left, and the band went away for so long,
the only real chance they had to gain any prominence again was with Arrival, and they blew it.
I still like the music, and I am still impressed with Eclipse, but they will never be considered cool, relevant, hip, or otherwise.
Even if they did mount a social media/internet onslaught like Chickenfoot...

Plus, lets face it, ALL the guys in Chickenfoot are just some pretty cool dudes that everyone loves. When have you ever really heard ANY bad press on any of these guys???

I saw Chickenfoot live and it was pretty boring. Not a big fan of the debut release either - too groove oriented. From what I've heard of the new CD, it is an improvement but I haven't listened to enough of it to form a complete opinion.

As stated, they are social media savy and you have to give them credit for that.

Pelata wrote:
"diehard fans" (assuming you mean fans who want new music) probably make up about 5% of the people in the seats...

Doesn't matter. Those 95% fans have already bought their tickets. Not like they're going to walk out... and even if they do, Journey still has their dough. Journey REALLY should be playing more than one tune from the album. If for nothing else then as a thank you to those that did buy it. I'm also surprised that nothing from Revelation is being played. As far as "albums released by a classic rock band in the last 5 years" it did respectably well and Arnel especially made a lot of fans from that album. Not understanding the way things are going this tour at all...

I am seeing them in a few weeks and it will be an extra special show for me- but I am disappointed that only one Eclipse song has made the cut. I still think it's a great album.

brywool wrote:

Pelata wrote:
"diehard fans" (assuming you mean fans who want new music) probably make up about 5% of the people in the seats...

Doesn't matter. Those 95% fans have already bought their tickets. Not like they're going to walk out... and even if they do, Journey still has their dough. Journey REALLY should be playing more than one tune from the album. If for nothing else then as a thank you to those that did buy it. I'm also surprised that nothing from Revelation is being played. As far as "albums released by a classic rock band in the last 5 years" it did respectably well and Arnel especially made a lot of fans from that album. Not understanding the way things are going this tour at all...

I don't disagree with you...just trying to rationalize not playing more than 1 song from an album that Neal is supposedly no proud of. I agree with playing them as a "thank you" to those who did buy it, but when it's most likely less than 500 people of the 10,000 in the audience, who do you cater to?

AR wrote:I saw Chickenfoot live and it was pretty boring. Not a big fan of the debut release either - too groove oriented. From what I've heard of the new CD, it is an improvement but I haven't listened to enough of it to form a complete opinion.

I'm exactly the opposite. No such thing, can never have enough rock groove. That right there is a huge draw for me.......talented musicians getting their bluesy rock groove on is totally my cup of tea. Probably why I like Chickenfoot and bands like Mr. Big, Bad Company, etc. I love music with that underlying 70s bluesy rock groove. Like this Alright Now performance from Rodgers, Schon, Jensen, etc. Totally my type a thang.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eK6ydCIHW2E

Pelata wrote:
I don't disagree with you...just trying to rationalize not playing more than 1 song from an album that Neal is supposedly no proud of. I agree with playing them as a "thank you" to those who did buy it, but when it's most likely less than 500 people of the 10,000 in the audience, who do you cater to?

Well, like I said, they've already got the audience's dough. I doubt the audience would bail as one if another tune from Eclipse was dropped in. They'd probably yell for "When I See You Smile" or something... but it would be nice to see them do something new. How many times can one hear LTS, OA, etc. and still go? You can't challenge a Journey audience with something new though, that's for sure. I bought tickets (7) because I was psyched that they'd be playing new stuff. Had I known it was going to be the same old stuff... I dunno if I'd have done that. Money is tight these days and I've seen the old stuff so much. Since the band is being "forced" to play "just the old stuff", it does make me think that they may be approaching the end of the line. That's something I've not really said before, but I cannot imagine Neal being reigned in by that. Maybe they'll just take a longer break. At least there IS a new album from them. I look at what Styx is doing and it just annoys the crap outta me, so at least there IS new music from Journey.

Yeah, I don't get it either. For as much as Neal was trumpeting how awesome the album was and how proud he was/is of it, you think he'd play 3 or 4 songs no matter what anyone said...

The Foot's new album is great. It's so much better than Eclipse. I can't stop listening to III because it's that good. With Eclipse I listened to it a few times and grew tired of it. Chickenfoot I listen to it and it seems to get better with each listen.

In terms of sales, you can also ignore the "quality" of the music on the two albums
and just look at the fanbases of each band to determine who will have better sales.

Look back to the 90's when bands like Bad English, Hardline, and The Storm were releasing albums.
The majority of the people that ran out and bought those albums were Journey fans. Record the same
albums with a few no-names, and sales would have been lackluster in comparison.
Fast-forward to the present. Hardcore Journey fans are the only ones still racing out to buy new music from the band.

Now look at Chickenfoot. They have the luxory of drawing off of a few huge fanbases: Hagar fans, VH fans, Satch fans, RHC fans...
That in itself will help drive sales higher because fans of these respective bands/artists are going to eat up anything they can get.

Pelata wrote:Yeah, I don't get it either. For as much as Neal was trumpeting how awesome the album was and how proud he was/is of it, you think he'd play 3 or 4 songs no matter what anyone said...

At the start of the U.S. leg of the tour, Cain and Neal said just that, that they wold play the new stuff whether the fans wanted to hear it or not. They insinuated that the whole reason behind not promoting Escape's 30th anniversary was because of a desire to heavily support the Eclipse album this tour.
Right now though, it looks as if Escape is the one getting a lot more airtime in the setlist than the newer effort.

Don wrote:

Pelata wrote:Yeah, I don't get it either. For as much as Neal was trumpeting how awesome the album was and how proud he was/is of it, you think he'd play 3 or 4 songs no matter what anyone said...

At the start of the U.S. leg of the tour, Cain and Neal said just that, that they wold play the new stuff whether the fans wanted to hear it or not. They insinuated that the whole reason behind not promoting Escape's 30th anniversary was because of a desire to heavily support the Eclipse album this tour.
Right now though, it looks as if Escape is the one getting a lot more airtime in the setlist than the newer effort.

Sure seemed that way last night, only one Eclipse song COH was played at teh Concord Pavilion show. I have to find some funds in my budget to get CF III, I enjoyed the first album.

I think they're killing Arnel's voice by drowning him out. He has to sing that much harder. Foreigner with their GH show I believed forced them to cut out more Eclipse and also with shorter time on stage in the US. BUT Neal could cut his excessive soloing and there is plenty of time for Resonate and Anything is Possible, two great songs that would appeal to concert-goers that don't know Eclipse. They're so catchy. No need for so much soloing which shortens the amount of songs in a short set timewise already,

'09 was such a fantastic concert for me soundwise, extended solos that added to the older hits, newer songs. Perfect one, two, three punch opening the concert as far as first three songs energywise. Perfect placement of songs pacewise throughout.


Sigh.

Jana wrote:
'09 was such a fantastic concert for me soundwise, extended solos that added to the older hits, newer songs. Perfect one, two, three punch opening the concert as far as first three songs energywise. Perfect placement of songs pacewise throughout.

Definitely. It was like seeing a reinvigorated Journey as opposed to the "safe greatest hits" version. They had something to prove then. Now, I guess they don't. Regarding Arnel's pipes, as long as his in ear mix is good, it doesn't matter what the FOH mix is (in reference to him damaging himself). The audience hearing him though... they can't. I don't think I've read one positive review of the sound througout the tour... have I?

Who are they playing La Do Da for, themselves? It's not a song that has been on a lot of request lists, it was never a hit so why are they taking up setlist space with it?

Bryan, a few good reports on here re sound, most not. But all say Foreigner's sound was better.

Don, I so agree on the La Do Da. How many in that casual fans audience even cares about that song. I don't as a longterm fan.

I hate Neal for taking Resonate out. That song live would kill.

Jana wrote:Bryan, a few good reports on here re sound, most not. But all say Foreigner's sound was better.

Don, I so agree on the La Do Da. How many in that casual fans audience even cares about that song. I don't as a longterm fan.

Hey Jana- Hope you're doing well.

I don't mind La Do Da at all actually. I would CERTAINLY rather hear that than Lovin Touchin Squeezin, especially with what sounds like endless jamming which makes a mediocre tune really hard to take. Hell, that's probably why Neal is throwing the extended solo there- to make it palatable to him. I like guitar solos as much as the next guy... in fact more than the next guy I'm sure, but not when a band has SO many great tunes to play and so little time to play them. If it's a Triple bill, leave a few solos out and do more tunes. I have a tough time believing that in an hour and a half show that Arnel really needs all of those solos to keep him from getting baked. The guy KNOWS how to take care of himself, the band is doing some shows detuned, and they're not that lengthy as shows go. If they're doing 3 nighters, then I can see it, but otherwise, it sure seems like a guitarfest and that just doesn't fit with this band. Even in Journey's heyday Neal would do one solo, Smith would do one, Jon would do one. Eh, too much armchair stage managing from me today.

Jana wrote: Neal could cut his excessive soloing and there is plenty of time for Resonate and Anything is Possible, two great songs that would appeal to concert-goers that don't know Eclipse. They're so catchy. No need for so much soloing which shortens the amount of songs in a short set timewise already,

'09 was such a fantastic concert for me soundwise, extended solos that added to the older hits, newer songs. Perfect one, two, three punch opening the concert as far as first three songs energywise. Perfect placement of songs pacewise throughout.


Sigh.

I totally agree with this post. Just give us a couple extra songs and cutout all the solos and noodling. I was hoping to hear Resonate, but COH was the only Eclipse song in the set. If I wanted to hear Neal wail away on his axe, I could put in any number of his solo albums at home. It's a Journey concert, I want to hear Journey tunes dammit! The 2009 concerts were so much better!

It will sell better. It's a better record than Eclipse. Sorry, Neal.

really digging the new Chickenfoot...a bit more melodic and developed than the debut.