MR

Exactly what it says on the proverbial tin.
What are the nitpicks you all have about past and present Journey live, ranging from Neal shredding too much to the geeky synth-intro to Only the Young, etc?

My only nitpick is the Frontiers tour being done on 45 instead of 33. Songs were played way too fast. Not sure what the point was.

45? 33? What significance are these to poor laymen such as I?

Man, what a juicy fucking thread. So full of excitement!

What's happened to this place?

steveo777 wrote:Man, what a juicy fucking thread. So full of excitement!

What's happened to this place?

Dean passed on, Dan moved on, Don's inactive, and you're trying to play all three at once?

No Perry
Jon and Neal speaking on the mics
Too much noodling on the guitar
The blonde Yoko hanging in the wings
Neal's digital guitar tone.
Ross with no facial hair.
I have no problem with deen. Prefer smith.
Keyboard tones are weak.
Jon on guitar.


All sizzle, no steak.

RSParker wrote:No Perry
Jon and Neal speaking on the mics
Too much noodling on the guitar
The blonde Yoko hanging in the wings
Neal's digital guitar tone.
Ross with no facial hair.
I have no problem with deen. Prefer smith.
Keyboard tones are weak.
Jon on guitar.


All sizzle, no steak.

Nice list.
I agree or sympathize with all of it minus Jon on guitar. Seems random.

Gideon wrote:

steveo777 wrote:Man, what a juicy fucking thread. So full of excitement!

What's happened to this place?

Dean passed on, Dan moved on, Don's inactive, and you're trying to play all three at once?

Sad...just sad, and no I am not. Nobody could replace those guys.

steveo777 wrote:

Gideon wrote:

steveo777 wrote:Man, what a juicy fucking thread. So full of excitement!

What's happened to this place?

Dean passed on, Dan moved on, Don's inactive, and you're trying to play all three at once?

Sad...just sad, and no I am not. Nobody could replace those guys.

Dan's pretty adamant about keeping his distance. Don will be back when the Journey camp begins mobilizing for the tour and/or Neal gives him more ammunition.

Gideon wrote:45? 33? What significance are these to poor laymen such as I?

Two speeds on a turntable. 45 being a faster speed than 33. Playing an LP on 45 makes it sound all chipmunk-y. In other words, the played the songs much faster than what was on the records.

Not playing enough of the deeper cuts
Neal's guitar wankfest
Deen looks like he should be on one of those Save the Children posters
Not playing new stuff

ebake02 wrote:Neal's guitar wankfest

THIS. I have no real desire to spend money to sit through that. Which is really sad, considering how much he and the band influenced my music and playing style. Of course he can play rings around me and most other players. That doesn't mean he HAS to, with the craptacular delay on everything.

ebake02 wrote:Not playing enough of the deeper cuts
Neal's guitar wankfest
Deen looks like he should be on one of those Save the Children posters
Not playing new stuff

+1

Also they can fucking blow me over their treatment of Steve A. and Jeff.

And Jeremey for that matter.

I have almost zero interest in this band now and that is a shame.

Ross and Deen are nice guys. The keyboard player and little guitarist are buttholes. I've never met Arnel but have heard good things about him.

Hate Jonathan on guitar. Get back on your pianer stool man.

Also, being in the UK and not old enough to see Steve Perry with Journey the first time they played here, I was eagerly awaiting the chance to see them live with Augeri.
And funny thing was, at certain moments during the show, the mic was nowhere near his mouth, his lips weren't moving and yet I could hear his voice ringing out loud and clear. I couldn't quite work out what was happening at first....but we all know what happened that Tour.


And I hated what happened with Jeff. Hated it.

Kinda put me off Journey.

I did buy the first CD with Arnel. I liked some of it. Particularly Jeremey's song.
I never played the re records and never will.

I still haven't bought the last CD because I don't want to hear seven minute tracks which consist of six minutes of Neal showing off.
I know he can play but I don't want to listen to self indulgence - if I did, I'd go sit in a jazz club every night.

Being terrible

Any vocal pitch corrections (yes this includes taped vocals too )
Playing a half step down for a replacement singer
Every vocal note having vibrato
Neal and Jon going through the motions
Night Ranger kicking Journey's ASS in Indy last year
Pandering to the flavor of the week musical taste with detuned guitars on new material (fuck you for that Neal)
Neal being a general douche who is a 57 year old at the maturity level of a 15 year old boy (yes this includes treatment of singers, whore of the week, etc.)

No new songs, or not enough.
dictation problems in the songs
a new record with no ballads, Let the record rock I don't care, but two or three of Journey's power ballads sure are not going to hurt the release.

ceedj wrote:

ebake02 wrote:Neal's guitar wankfest

THIS. I have no real desire to spend money to sit through that. Which is really sad, considering how much he and the band influenced my music and playing style. Of course he can play rings around me and most other players. That doesn't mean he HAS to, with the craptacular delay on everything.

It drives me crazy, he doesn't have to shred all the fucking time, it kinda sounds like diarrhea. Neal is one the best in the business and for some reason he thinks he has to remind everybody 24/7

AR wrote:

ebake02 wrote:Not playing enough of the deeper cuts
Neal's guitar wankfest
Deen looks like he should be on one of those Save the Children posters
Not playing new stuff

+1

Also they can fucking blow me over their treatment of Steve A. and Jeff.

And Jeremey for that matter.

I like Arnel, but they should've stuck with Jeff. Jeff's stage presence and energy is through the roof and he would have brought a harder edge that Journey desperately needs.

The dirty dozen ad nausiem
Neal's tone
Neal's overindulgent soloing, he doesn't play with the melodic feel that he used to

Aaron wrote:Any vocal pitch corrections (yes this includes taped vocals too )
Playing a half step down for a replacement singer
Every vocal note having vibrato
Neal and Jon going through the motions
Night Ranger kicking Journey's ASS in Indy last yearPandering to the flavor of the week musical taste with detuned guitars on new material (fuck you for that Neal)
Neal being a general douche who is a 57 year old at the maturity level of a 15 year old boy (yes this includes treatment of singers, whore of the week, etc.)

Thank you ...for the short time they were on the stage, HELL YES!!
Journey's sound was as awful/pathetic as a brand new starter band w/ terribly
cheap equipment ...and you want to blame the noise on that, but you still
aren't sure?!? One new song that I could not hear/make sense
of anyway ...and the only reason I knew/recognized the other songs is because they
were familiar favorites made popular 30, or more, years prior ...they sounded
much better from the parking lot. All of this^^^^would've been very forgivable had
it been corrected immediately upon discovery, but no, they were aware of
it and let it go on show after show ....complaints ignored.

Yes, most of the band appeared to be bored, going through the motions ...
and if that's not true, they need to stop giving
the audience that perception. But, my #1 gripe is myself, it is no longer
1980 something and I need to quit expecting this band to act as though they
remember how much fun it used to be ...and people make fun of Ross
for attemtping to have fun on the stage.

Cain's keyboard solo's have always sucked. Well, maybe not sucked, but I was listening to the live Houston disc this weekend and his solo reminded me how I've never heard him do a good one live.

Plus a number of the other things listed above. With specific attention to the speed at which they performed late in Perry's career. Terrible.

Schon and Cain.

This band is dead to me 'cause of the way Augeri and Soto were treated. Can't REALLY say anything bad about Arnel since the guy is living his dream (initially I did...I won't deny that. It's WELL documented if you go back to posts from a few years ago)

I normally stay out of this forum now, but saw this, and had to sink my teeth in. I had a SHIT weekend, and I'm going to take it out on someone. So...thanks for this topic.

*No Perry
*Neal being the spokesperson of the group
*Taking "OTY" and "ATL" off of Frontiers
*Touring with the same acts everyyear: REO, Styx, Night Ranger, Heart. Use some imagination and pick opening act/acts that will bring something different to the table besides the some groups that have been doing it forever. What about Chicago? Boston? Pat Benatar? Toto?
*Actually start spending some money in promoting your new albums
*Going through more lead singers than any band ive seen in a matter of ten years

Jon's queer looking outfits during the Frontiers and ROR tours
Jon's queer sounding solos and intros
The band playing Open Arms and Faithfully. Give them a rest, please!
Frontiers and ROR songs played too fast.
Neal's shredding.
Neal's non-melodic playing.

Cain's Manila solo was great. Can't remember if he toured playing it in 2008 or 2009.
Neal's shredding gets old, but his "Skylight" solo was great.
Perry's absence is fine since I sincerely doubt he could do the songs justice.
Cain on guitar is fine too. I don't really want to hear Stone In Love with keyboards.
"Open Arms" and "Faithfully" are two of their most popular songs, they'll remain in perpetuity.
Lack of Deen on vocals.

My gripes (some of them personal because I can't resist):

-The GOD AWFUL soundguy

-Friga blowing on his fucking harmonica in Wheel.

-Playing half-step down, though this is mostly because they're overworking Arnel. Distinct difference in his vocals from '08 and '09 (even when they were detuned).

-Music overpowering the vox

-The musical chairs game with the setlist

-Also, they didn't play SHML in Toronto, which I was expecting... but I did get Who's Crying Now so, I digress.

-JOURNEY, Y U NO LET DEEN SING?!

-Getting hassled by a security dick for standing up and enjoying myself during EOTM

-Jon not playing rhythm on City of Hope live

-Not playing Chain of Love

ebake02 wrote:

ceedj wrote:

ebake02 wrote:Neal's guitar wankfest

THIS. I have no real desire to spend money to sit through that. Which is really sad, considering how much he and the band influenced my music and playing style. Of course he can play rings around me and most other players. That doesn't mean he HAS to, with the craptacular delay on everything.

It drives me crazy, he doesn't have to shred all the fucking time, it kinda sounds like diarrhea. Neal is one the best in the business and for some reason he thinks he has to remind everybody 24/7

Just heard Hardline's "Life's A Bitch", I knew as soon as I heard him, it was Neal, without even being super familiar with the song. That whole solo was a nice simple, repeated melody, that totally fit what the rest of the band is doing. I think there were one, MAYBE two really fast runs, that managed to fit in the context of the song. Jump to the new album (see, I can't even remember the name of it off the top of my head), it's little melody line, blahbity blahbity runrunrun, UGH.

I shouldn't criticize, but damn, this dude was MY GUY for like, 20 some years. I know the music is not for everyone, and found myself defending him a lot growing up, but find me a more complete guitar player from 1974-1996. I like a ton of different people for the same amount of reasons, but to me, Neal during this period (especially post Evolution) did it all, and did it with style. It now comes off as "LOOK AT ME LOOK AT ME I CAN SHREDD!!!", and it's just disappointing to this fan.

Just heard Hardline's "Life's A Bitch", I knew as soon as I heard him, it was Neal, without even being super familiar with the song. That whole solo was a nice simple, repeated melody, that totally fit what the rest of the band is doing. I think there were one, MAYBE two really fast runs, that managed to fit in the context of the song. Jump to the new album (see, I can't even remember the name of it off the top of my head), it's little melody line, blahbity blahbity runrunrun, UGH.

I shouldn't criticize, but damn, this dude was MY GUY for like, 20 some years. I know the music is not for everyone, and found myself defending him a lot growing up, but find me a more complete guitar player from 1974-1996. I like a ton of different people for the same amount of reasons, but to me, Neal during this period (especially post Evolution) did it all, and did it with style. It now comes off as "LOOK AT ME LOOK AT ME I CAN SHREDD!!!", and it's just disappointing to this fan.

It seems to me like he doesn't want to put out the effort anymore and he's trying to hide that behind the diarrhea he's playing now. Or he's just an attention whore...