MR

Dude, I remember how when Arnel was announced in the band you were saying you were friends with him and been together with him and the AMO band back in the Cal Jam days.
As this is a Journey site, would be cool to see some old photos of you and him/ AMO together. I'm sure Arnel won't mind. I could always invade the shout-box and ask him if it's a problem if you share some pictures with us over here at MR.


http://forums.melodicrock.com/phpBB/vie ... 41#3994841

posting for posterity

Wow, dug up from the way......past. I read my post below and I had written it from the bottom of my heart for someone that I knew over twenty years ago would someday accomplish what he was set out to do so many years before. I knew he would, but didn't know when or that he would do it without the rest of the band. Back then (in the 80's), I completely believed the entire band would become successful together as one. The thought of a single member accomplishing it never even crossed my mind. I was so happy for him as well because I had lost touch with him along with all the other members of the band over the years. I had left the Philippines and returned to America where I have since furthered my education and professional career. When I left, there was no internet like there is now and basically I never really turned to it in order to try and locate anyone. I often wondered how everyone in the band was doing and if they ever made it to their goals with it. And then one day there's Arnel. It was wonderful to get back in touch with him and the rest of the band as well, after all these years, though my life and dreams have changed, it's wonderful to see him finally live his dream.

Most of all, I was so happy for him when he did accomplish this milestone in his life. Yet I was very nieve to post such personal and sensitive feelings on a site that I found out later was so against him. That's my only regret.

Don wrote:Dude, I remember how when Arnel was announced in the band you were saying you were friends with him and been together with him and the AMO band back in the Cal Jam days.
As this is a Journey site, would be cool to see some old photos of you and him/ AMO together. I'm sure Arnel won't mind. I could always invade the shout-box and ask him if it's a problem if you share some pictures with us over here at MR.


http://forums.melodicrock.com/phpBB/vie ... 41#3994841

The Sushi Hunter wrote: Yet I was very nieve to post such personal and sensitive feelings on a site that I found out later was so against him. That's my only regret.

The site isn't against him...its just that a few people are bitter that Journey has become popular again but not in the way they wanted them to...and without them.

Eric wrote:

The Sushi Hunter wrote: Yet I was very nieve to post such personal and sensitive feelings on a site that I found out later was so against him. That's my only regret.

The site isn't against him...its just that a few people are bitter that Journey has become popular again but not in the way they wanted them to...and without them.

That could be.

What I wonder is if I have also seen is since people are so against him (AP), they tend to in turn bash the band or specific members in some way, shape or fashion, either by how the band or individual members of the band conducts internal business, which is completely outside the scope of the fan/band relationship. Sometimes it seems a little that way.

The Sushi Hunter wrote:

Eric wrote:

The Sushi Hunter wrote: Yet I was very nieve to post such personal and sensitive feelings on a site that I found out later was so against him. That's my only regret.

The site isn't against him...its just that a few people are bitter that Journey has become popular again but not in the way they wanted them to...and without them.

That could be.

What I wonder is if I have also seen is since people are so against him (AP), they tend to in turn bash the band or specific members in some way, shape or fashion, either by how the band or individual members of the band conducts internal business, which is completely outside the scope of the fan/band relationship. Sometimes it seems a little that way.

No, it has nothing to do with Arnel. I don't get caught up in who is a good person and who is a bad person or who did what to who. But I do get caught up in the band simply not being good anymore. But other people DO get caught in the band's personalities and business affairs, and contrary to your assertion, it's not "completely outside the scope" of the fan/band relationship AT ALL. In today's day and age when information travels faster than ever, fans and bands/athletes/entertainers are intimately more connected. It's why you see athletes getting raked over the coals for ill-advised tweets, videos of movie stars being dicks to reporters or fans go viral, and anecdotes about a star not having his best day permeate the Internet, forever changing that person's image.

The fans AND the stars have to take the good with the bad. This wonderful thing called the Internet (and more specifically, YouTube) enabled Neal to find Arnel. It lets stars connect to us personally. It lets us see countless live videos seconds after they're performed. But it also gives the fans a chance to see behind the machine and see things that color their impression of the band and ultimately, even their very statuses as fans.

And frankly, it's a little odd that YOU would be the one defining the appropriate parameters of the so-called "fan/band relationship," considering you've NEVER seen the band live in ANY form. Obviously, being a fan is no competition, but objectively, you're simply not that big of a fan if you've never once bothered to see the band live in it's 37 year history.

So to be a valid fan I have to go to live shows to see them? I was a fan of football once, and even then I didn't go to see a game at a stadium.

The Sushi Hunter wrote:So to be a valid fan I have to go to live shows to see them? I was a fan of football once, and even then I didn't go to see a game at a stadium.

No, that's not necessarily what I'm saying. Like I acknowledged, being a fan is not a contest. But at the same time, someone who apparently isn't devoted enough to see ONE live show in a band's 37-year history is ill-suited to define the parameters of others' "fandom." People who have followed this band for X number of years and seen Y number of shows, shared concert memories with friends, and even met and hung with the band over the years are simply going to have a greater stake (and thus more passion) in seeing the band continue in a form they find respectable. When you've invested REAL money (i.e., pricey concert tickets, parking, gas, food, beers, travel and all other incidental costs of going to shows) in a band time and again, it can really suck to find out that they are (a) defrauding you; (b) assholes to people like you who have spent not only countless dollars, but also countless HOURS on them/their music/their shows; and so on.

Now, compare that to someone who just listens on CD and is fine with whatever (as you apparently are), and you'll see why those in the former group are probably going to be more passionate and hung up on specifics like how friendly the band is, how they treat members they grew to know and love, etc. In short, I think it's pretty hard for someone in your shoes to see why people might care about the things you apparently deem inconsequential.

For better or worse, when you cross a certain line of fandom with the band, you are simply going to be more invested in collateral things like that.

Personally, I don't really care much about the kind of people they are. I was too young for the Perry era, and I just love the music. But I just don't enjoy the current lineup, so I won't go to any more shows. But I do understand why people would care about the things you dismiss.

Isn't it just taking it a little bit too personal to say a band is or has member in it that are assholes by how they run their internal business with it's active members? Or maybe it's just me, I don't trip over stuff like that. If they get in a new singer that I don't like, I don't call them assholes or anything, I just move on cause I've got more choices and more important things to do in life then to be stuck on stupid being pissed at a band for doing something that I don't agree with. In regards to who they get to front the band, sure not too many people look forward to changes like that, but the band is doing what works. And obviously they based their decision on a predetermined plan that they want to continue playing their classics. I don't necessarily agree with that either, but I can still understand the purpose, and benefit behind it. And for that I can respect it.

I think Ehwmatt makes a very good point. Those who have never shelled out tons of money to see the band in concert and have never met the band do generally feel more invested in the band than those whose only connection is listening on CD. I have never met the band, although I'm hoping there's a way to do so when I see them later in the year. I have been to several concerts in the past, and Journey was THE first band of my youth that I deemed my most favorite. So, I feel I have fairly quite a bit of investment in the band. maybe not nearly as much as others, but I have stuck with them since the early 80's.

Personally, I think it's always a blessing and a curse to meet your heroes. Most of the time, they're not what you imagine them - which can be good or bad depending upon the situation. A good example of liking a band but not being personally invested is what's happening in Queensryche right now. I have Queensryche's greatest hits album and one of their early 90's albums. I'm not very invested in the band, but I do enjoy their greatest hits. They just kicked out their long time, original voice of the band, but the new guy covers the songs just as good as Tate. For me, someone who is not very invested in that band, it doesn't make a difference. I'd probably buy a new album from them if it's good.

You're basically the same with Journey as I am Queensryche. I enjoy the music, but I could care less who's in the band, where as with Journey, I have kept up with all things Journey and all things Steve Perry since I was about 10 years old.

Ehwmatt wrote:

The Sushi Hunter wrote:So to be a valid fan I have to go to live shows to see them? I was a fan of football once, and even then I didn't go to see a game at a stadium.

No, that's not necessarily what I'm saying. Like I acknowledged, being a fan is not a contest. But at the same time, someone who apparently isn't devoted enough to see ONE live show in a band's 37-year history is ill-suited to define the parameters of others' "fandom." People who have followed this band for X number of years and seen Y number of shows, shared concert memories with friends, and even met and hung with the band over the years are simply going to have a greater stake (and thus more passion) in seeing the band continue in a form they find respectable. When you've invested REAL money (i.e., pricey concert tickets, parking, gas, food, beers, travel and all other incidental costs of going to shows) in a band time and again, it can really suck to find out that they are (a) defrauding you; (b) assholes to people like you who have spent not only countless dollars, but also countless HOURS on them/their music/their shows; and so on.

Now, compare that to someone who just listens on CD and is fine with whatever (as you apparently are), and you'll see why those in the former group are probably going to be more passionate and hung up on specifics like how friendly the band is, how they treat members they grew to know and love, etc. In short, I think it's pretty hard for someone in your shoes to see why people might care about the things you apparently deem inconsequential.

For better or worse, when you cross a certain line of fandom with the band, you are simply going to be more invested in collateral things like that.

Personally, I don't really care much about the kind of people they are. I was too young for the Perry era, and I just love the music. But I just don't enjoy the current lineup, so I won't go to any more shows. But I do understand why people would care about the things you dismiss.

Great post.

The Sushi Hunter wrote:Isn't it just taking it a little bit too personal to say a band is or has member in it that are assholes by how they run their internal business with it's active members? Or maybe it's just me, I don't trip over stuff like that. If they get in a new singer that I don't like, I don't call them assholes or anything, I just move on cause I've got more choices and more important things to do in life then to be stuck on stupid being pissed at a band for doing something that I don't agree with. In regards to who they get to front the band, sure not too many people look forward to changes like that, but the band is doing what works. And obviously they based their decision on a predetermined plan that they want to continue playing their classics. I don't necessarily agree with that either, but I can still understand the purpose, and benefit behind it. And for that I can respect it.

I think you are taking message board posts a little too personal maybe. I don't think anybody posting here is stuck on being pissed at a band (Journey). They are just in turn posting their likes or dislikes of decisions made or different aspects of the music or band. Like yourself, everybody here has lives beyond this board. I'm sorry but I have to chuckle at people that have the arogance to post that kind of stuff, like their life (more than anybody else's) is so full out side of the board that they don't have the 'time' or 'effort' etc. LOL it's a message board! Sure the language here can maybe be a little more colorful or passionate in some debates. But I see that as a good thing, the freedom to call out a member for being an asshole or whatever, just as somebody else posts as if that person is a god of sorts. It all balances out. I can see your point when it becomes an extreme on either end. In my case, 90% of my musical enjoyment is in the vocals/delivery, so I very much enjoyed the Perry/Journey, not as much the Augeri/Journey, then a fan again of the Soto/Journey and now again not so much the Pineda/Journey. But I guess I was lucky enough to have one of my all-time favorite bands re-unite in that same time frame, so needless to say, I very much have 'moved on'. LOL, but like anybody else here I will still put my 2 cents in on what I like/dislike/agree/disagree with.

It's the vastly differing opinions and for the most part......people's freedom to state them that makes the MR board so compelling to read sometimes.

From everything I've read/heard/seen of Arnel, he seems to be an upstanding and kind man. I think he's got a good voice, it just doesn't have the specific qualities that I require.......it doesn't move me, that's all.

The only time a person's "emotional investment" in [anything] becomes a problem for me is when it leads to myopia or revisionist history. For example, "NEAL SCHON FIRED STEVE PERRY SO HE'S A SHITTY GUITARIST" or "STEVE PERRY FIRED ROSS VALORY AND STEVE SMITH SO THE FUCKER CAN'T SING" and all manner of similar sentiments that litter the internet. That shit is retarded.

Gideon wrote:The only time a person's "emotional investment" in [anything] becomes a problem for me is when it leads to myopia or revisionist history. For example, "NEAL SCHON FIRED STEVE PERRY SO HE'S A SHITTY GUITARIST" or "STEVE PERRY FIRED ROSS VALORY AND STEVE SMITH SO THE FUCKER CAN'T SING" and all manner of similar sentiments that litter the internet. That shit is retarded.

I agree with that. One has, and should, have nothing to do with the other. An artist can be a complete asshole as a person but it takes nothing away from their talent. Just as a complete sweetheart of a person doesn't mean they become instantly talented either. I know we have had this discussion before about the person/band vs. the music. I'm just a naturally passionate/feisty person and I for one can not COMPLETELY separate the two. If I hear/read/see actions of a band or band member of course it weighs on any decision on whether or not I will continue to listen to them or go see a live show. I may not agree with Neal's (and Jon's) decisions or actions in a lot of things and have no desire to see them live anymore, but I know it takes absolutely nothing away from their talent. I don't think Neal is any less talented of a guitarist.

Deb wrote:

Gideon wrote:The only time a person's "emotional investment" in [anything] becomes a problem for me is when it leads to myopia or revisionist history. For example, "NEAL SCHON FIRED STEVE PERRY SO HE'S A SHITTY GUITARIST" or "STEVE PERRY FIRED ROSS VALORY AND STEVE SMITH SO THE FUCKER CAN'T SING" and all manner of similar sentiments that litter the internet. That shit is retarded.

I agree with that. One has, and should, have nothing to do with the other. An artist can be a complete asshole as a person but it takes nothing away from their talent. Just as a complete sweetheart of a person doesn't mean they become instantly talented either. I know we have had this discussion before about the person/band vs. the music. I'm just a naturally passionate/feisty personality and I for one can not COMPLETELY separate the two. If I hear/read/see actions of a band or band member it does weigh on any decision on whether or not I will continue to listen to them or go see a live show. I may not agree with Neal's (and Jon's) decisions or actions in a lot of things and have no desire to see them live anymore, but I know it takes absolutely nothing away from their talent. I don't think Neal is any less talented of a guitarist.

But I think Giddy tends to go the extreme when making a point. I don't remember ever coming across a perryloon post saying Neal is a shitty guitarist because .... or a perry detractor saying he couldn't sing because.... Yes, those terms have been used, in general, to characterize their present (perceived) state of being....but not in the context of what one member has(had) done to another member of the band.

I don't recall ever reading anyone posting that Schon sucked as a guitarist based on how he runs his business. Not saying it never happened, but I've not come across that yet. What I have read time and time again is individuals expressing how he sucks as a person based on how he runs his business and then dictates how he should run his business, at which point I don't think that's anyone's business on the common fan of the band level.

Deb wrote:

Gideon wrote:The only time a person's "emotional investment" in [anything] becomes a problem for me is when it leads to myopia or revisionist history. For example, "NEAL SCHON FIRED STEVE PERRY SO HE'S A SHITTY GUITARIST" or "STEVE PERRY FIRED ROSS VALORY AND STEVE SMITH SO THE FUCKER CAN'T SING" and all manner of similar sentiments that litter the internet. That shit is retarded.

I agree with that. One has, and should, have nothing to do with the other. An artist can be a complete asshole as a person but it takes nothing away from their talent. Just as a complete sweetheart of a person doesn't mean they become instantly talented either. I know we have had this discussion before about the person/band vs. the music. I'm just a naturally passionate/feisty person and I for one can not COMPLETELY separate the two. If I hear/read/see actions of a band or band member of course it weighs on any decision on whether or not I will continue to listen to them or go see a live show. I may not agree with Neal's (and Jon's) decisions or actions in a lot of things and have no desire to see them live anymore, but I know it takes absolutely nothing away from their talent. I don't think Neal is any less talented of a guitarist.

Bingo.
lol @ Annie for completely missing the point.

Gideon wrote:

Deb wrote:

Gideon wrote:The only time a person's "emotional investment" in [anything] becomes a problem for me is when it leads to myopia or revisionist history. For example, "NEAL SCHON FIRED STEVE PERRY SO HE'S A SHITTY GUITARIST" or "STEVE PERRY FIRED ROSS VALORY AND STEVE SMITH SO THE FUCKER CAN'T SING" and all manner of similar sentiments that litter the internet. That shit is retarded.

I agree with that. One has, and should, have nothing to do with the other. An artist can be a complete asshole as a person but it takes nothing away from their talent. Just as a complete sweetheart of a person doesn't mean they become instantly talented either. I know we have had this discussion before about the person/band vs. the music. I'm just a naturally passionate/feisty person and I for one can not COMPLETELY separate the two. If I hear/read/see actions of a band or band member of course it weighs on any decision on whether or not I will continue to listen to them or go see a live show. I may not agree with Neal's (and Jon's) decisions or actions in a lot of things and have no desire to see them live anymore, but I know it takes absolutely nothing away from their talent. I don't think Neal is any less talented of a guitarist.

Bingo.
lol @ Annie for completely missing the point.

When it comes to Annie, i think you will always be strange medicine to her.

Don wrote:

Gideon wrote:

Deb wrote:

Gideon wrote:The only time a person's "emotional investment" in [anything] becomes a problem for me is when it leads to myopia or revisionist history. For example, "NEAL SCHON FIRED STEVE PERRY SO HE'S A SHITTY GUITARIST" or "STEVE PERRY FIRED ROSS VALORY AND STEVE SMITH SO THE FUCKER CAN'T SING" and all manner of similar sentiments that litter the internet. That shit is retarded.

I agree with that. One has, and should, have nothing to do with the other. An artist can be a complete asshole as a person but it takes nothing away from their talent. Just as a complete sweetheart of a person doesn't mean they become instantly talented either. I know we have had this discussion before about the person/band vs. the music. I'm just a naturally passionate/feisty person and I for one can not COMPLETELY separate the two. If I hear/read/see actions of a band or band member of course it weighs on any decision on whether or not I will continue to listen to them or go see a live show. I may not agree with Neal's (and Jon's) decisions or actions in a lot of things and have no desire to see them live anymore, but I know it takes absolutely nothing away from their talent. I don't think Neal is any less talented of a guitarist.

Bingo.
lol @ Annie for completely missing the point.

When it comes to Annie, i think you will always be strange medicine to her.

Well she'll always be just strange to me, but I suppose there's a certain charm to it.

Gideon wrote:The only time a person's "emotional investment" in [anything] becomes a problem for me is when it leads to myopia or revisionist history. For example, "NEAL SCHON FIRED STEVE PERRY SO HE'S A SHITTY GUITARIST" or "STEVE PERRY FIRED ROSS VALORY AND STEVE SMITH SO THE FUCKER CAN'T SING" and all manner of similar sentiments that litter the internet. That shit is retarded.

That's an affirmative.

Gideon wrote:Well she'll always be just strange to me, but I suppose there's a certain charm to it.

Like makeup sex. Good stuff.

The Sushi Hunter wrote:

Gideon wrote:Well she'll always be just strange to me, but I suppose there's a certain charm to it.

Like makeup sex. Good stuff.

I'm sure she'll love that comparison.

Gideon wrote:

The Sushi Hunter wrote:

Gideon wrote:Well she'll always be just strange to me, but I suppose there's a certain charm to it.

Like makeup sex. Good stuff.

I'm sure she'll love that comparison.

It's a terrific element.

The Sushi Hunter wrote:

Gideon wrote:

The Sushi Hunter wrote:

Gideon wrote:Well she'll always be just strange to me, but I suppose there's a certain charm to it.

Like makeup sex. Good stuff.

I'm sure she'll love that comparison.

It's a terrific element.

Didn't there used to be a song..."If you knew sushi, like I know sushi"...?
Man I gotta put whats left of the brain to bed..cause there isn't much left today

tater1977 wrote:

The Sushi Hunter wrote:

Gideon wrote:

The Sushi Hunter wrote:

Gideon wrote:Well she'll always be just strange to me, but I suppose there's a certain charm to it.

Like makeup sex. Good stuff.

I'm sure she'll love that comparison.

It's a terrific element.

Didn't there used to be a song..."If you knew sushi, like I know sushi"...?
Man I gotta put whats left of the brain to bed..cause there isn't much left today

Sushi can smell like fish....just sayin.

Gideon wrote:

Don wrote:

Gideon wrote:

Deb wrote:

Gideon wrote:The only time a person's "emotional investment" in [anything] becomes a problem for me is when it leads to myopia or revisionist history. For example, "NEAL SCHON FIRED STEVE PERRY SO HE'S A SHITTY GUITARIST" or "STEVE PERRY FIRED ROSS VALORY AND STEVE SMITH SO THE FUCKER CAN'T SING" and all manner of similar sentiments that litter the internet. That shit is retarded.

I agree with that. One has, and should, have nothing to do with the other. An artist can be a complete asshole as a person but it takes nothing away from their talent. Just as a complete sweetheart of a person doesn't mean they become instantly talented either. I know we have had this discussion before about the person/band vs. the music. I'm just a naturally passionate/feisty person and I for one can not COMPLETELY separate the two. If I hear/read/see actions of a band or band member of course it weighs on any decision on whether or not I will continue to listen to them or go see a live show. I may not agree with Neal's (and Jon's) decisions or actions in a lot of things and have no desire to see them live anymore, but I know it takes absolutely nothing away from their talent. I don't think Neal is any less talented of a guitarist.

Bingo.
lol @ Annie for completely missing the point.

When it comes to Annie, i think you will always be strange medicine to her.

Well she'll always be just strange to me, but I suppose there's a certain charm to it.

Just like you Giddy.....a acquired taste I suppose.

The Sushi Hunter wrote:I don't recall ever reading anyone posting that Schon sucked as a guitarist based on how he runs his business. Not saying it never happened, but I've not come across that yet. What I have read time and time again is individuals expressing how he sucks as a person based on how he runs his business and then dictates how he should run his business, at which point I don't think that's anyone's business on the common fan of the band level.

As a "customer" of the product that the corporation called Journey provides (as with any other product I choose to buy), I should have the right to express my consumer satisfaction or dissatisfaction. Music by it's very design evokes emotion in us, and when we feel a connection to those that evoke that emotion, sometimes what they do (or don't do) also elicits an emotional response.

Neal sucks as a person IMO based on his history in dealing with people, both in his professional and personal life.

portland wrote:Just like you Giddy.....a acquired taste I suppose.

I can't complain. After all, you come back to sample me frequently.

Gideon wrote:

portland wrote:Just like you Giddy.....a acquired taste I suppose.

I can't complain. After all, you come back to sample me frequently.

You wish...