MR

Out of curiosity, did Journey ever "detune" during the Augeri years or were all his tours in the original key?

I saw early on... original key... in later years it was obvious they tuned down

You can't go by Augeri's voice at all. The guy was such a mess in the end that it didn't matter how they played.

I'm pretty sure the music stayed at the original recording of standard 440 until 2009 when they bumped it down to 415. You can tell by hearing Schon's guitar sound also as it got thicker/ heavier (or however you want to describe it) when they finally made the switch to Eb during Pineda's second tour with the band.

Though, if I'm talking out my ass, I don't mind being corrected by the resident board musicians in this case.

<---- musician

Here's a question.

In the studio recording, is the opening keyboard riff for DSB played a half step down compared to the rest of the instrumental parts and vocals?

It starts in E, walks to A... chorus back in E (same progression as intro)

the key is best heard on the Bass part..

Journey music should always be played in the proper, original key. Fuck the singers. If they can't handle it they can be replaced. The music, however, must remain proper and be preserved.

Don wrote:Here's a question.

In the studio recording, is the opening keyboard riff for DSB played a half step down compared to the rest of the instrumental parts and vocals?

No. I think you are probably just hearing the chorus and other processing effects on the keys. On the studio version, they definitely had a heavy chorus effect going on those intro keys, and for technical reasons not worth explaining, chorus effect slightly detunes things to give it that shimmery watery sound, whether it be a chorused guitar or keys.

slucero wrote:I saw early on... original key... in later years it was obvious they tuned down

Hmm. Curious where you hear "obvious" down tuning. A quick listen and check of this video from 2005 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3PsHVGyM9I shows them playing Separate Ways in standard tuning and original key (i.e., G maj/Emin).

As far as I know, the first time Journey detuned (other than the Billy Graham thing) was during JSS's 2006 tenure. Was there a time in 06 before Augeri's ouster that they tried down tuning? I doubt it since they were lipping, but if you have something to see, I'm curious. Definitely thought they NEVER detuned w/ Augeri.

Ehwmatt wrote:

slucero wrote:I saw early on... original key... in later years it was obvious they tuned down

Hmm. Curious where you hear "obvious" down tuning. A quick listen and check of this video from 2005 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3PsHVGyM9I shows them playing Separate Ways in standard tuning and original key (i.e., G maj/Emin).

As far as I know, the first time Journey detuned (other than the Billy Graham thing) was during JSS's 2006 tenure. Was there a time in 06 before Augeri's ouster that they tried down tuning? I doubt it since they were lipping, but if you have something to see, I'm curious. Definitely thought they NEVER detuned w/ Augeri.

I heard a boot from 2004 where SW is detuned and the chorus sounds very unusual. Other than that, I don't think SA caught many breaks. JSS once said de-tuning the material made it harder for him to cover. It's possible Augeri had the same experience.

steveo777 wrote:Journey music should always be played in the proper, original key. Fuck the singers. If they can't handle it they can be replaced. The music, however, must remain proper and be preserved.

I agree but good luck finding an available singer who has the voice to handle it for an extended time period. The only singers that I can think who can handle it are already committed to other bands.

ebake02 wrote:

steveo777 wrote:Journey music should always be played in the proper, original key. Fuck the singers. If they can't handle it they can be replaced. The music, however, must remain proper and be preserved.

I agree but good luck finding an available singer who has the voice to handle it for an extended time period. The only singers that I can think who can handle it are already committed to other bands.

Well, part of my post was sarcastic, appearing to have no regard for the singers, but still, I hate listening to the songs when they don't sound right.

Well that's what they get for continuing to play primarily the songs from the early to mid-80s. But I understand why they keep playing those songs. They are in between a rock and a hard place, meaning that they continue to play these early to mid-80's tunes because those are the songs that get the band most recognition and reward.

I remember JSS saying it was harder to sing in Eb than in E. Same for me thought I dont sing in tenor much anymore. You get used to where your full voice ends and your falsetto starts. Everyone has that small gap in their range maybe accept for early Perry were experts say that can not here that. By the way that cross over area is called the passaggio. When down tuning I noticed that I had to try to hit notes that fell in this zone far more often than when in standard tuning. That is probably what happened to JSS. I can sing wheel in the sky standard with little problem. Tune it down though and it is much harder. You dont want to spend too much time singing near your passaggio.

Some vocal experts have claimed that Perrys voice is the rarest voice type. Cant remember what it was called. I have read many times that people could not tell when Perry would cross over his passaggio if he had one at all. This is one of the factors that made him a vocal freak.. I mean that in a good way.

Liquid_Drummer wrote:I remember JSS saying it was harder to sing in Eb than in E. Same for me thought I dont sing in tenor much anymore. You get used to where your full voice ends and your falsetto starts. Everyone has that small gap in their range maybe accept for early Perry were experts say that can not here that. By the way that cross over area is called the passaggio. When down tuning I noticed that I had to try to hit notes that fell in this zone far more often than when in standard tuning. That is probably what happened to JSS. I can sing wheel in the sky standard with little problem. Tune it down though and it is much harder. You dont want to spend too much time singing near your passaggio.

Some vocal experts have claimed that Perrys voice is the rarest voice type. Cant remember what it was called. I have read many times that people could not tell when Perry would cross over his passaggio if he had one at all. This is one of the factors that made him a vocal freak.. I mean that in a good way.

Great read...

Steve Perry was a Countertenor, which is the name given to male vocalists who sing in the highest musical register. Soprano is the female equivalent (although not an exact parallel) whose natural voices usually carry to a higher register than their male counterparts (but not always). Male sopranos are usually boys whose voices have not yet broken (there are male ‘sopranists’ but extremely rare). Males usually go beyond their normal range (modal/ full voice) by using falsetto, although ‘head voice’ is a similar vocal category usually defined as the voice in a natural high pitch. Perry used falsetto for the notes at the very top of his range, but whereas many rock countertenors use some form of head voice or falsetto once beyond the ‘tenor high C’, Perry produced most of his countertenor range in full voice before using any form of falsetto. Truly extraordinary.


http://www.fabricationshq.com/steve-per ... ebook.html

The_Noble_Cause wrote:

Ehwmatt wrote:

slucero wrote:I saw early on... original key... in later years it was obvious they tuned down

Hmm. Curious where you hear "obvious" down tuning. A quick listen and check of this video from 2005 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3PsHVGyM9I shows them playing Separate Ways in standard tuning and original key (i.e., G maj/Emin).

As far as I know, the first time Journey detuned (other than the Billy Graham thing) was during JSS's 2006 tenure. Was there a time in 06 before Augeri's ouster that they tried down tuning? I doubt it since they were lipping, but if you have something to see, I'm curious. Definitely thought they NEVER detuned w/ Augeri.

I heard a boot from 2004 where SW is detuned and the chorus sounds very unusual. Other than that, I don't think SA caught many breaks. JSS once said de-tuning the material made it harder for him to cover. It's possible Augeri had the same experience.

You wouldn't happen to know where to hear that, would you? I'd like to check. If you don't, did you check the audio with an instrument when you heard it (not sure if you play anything TNC)? I really thought they NEVER tuned down once with Augeri.

Ehwmatt wrote:You wouldn't happen to know where to hear that, would you? I'd like to check. If you don't, did you check the audio with an instrument when you heard it (not sure if you play anything TNC)? I really thought they NEVER tuned down once with Augeri.

Maybe Casinorama, Ontario, from 2004? I will dig it up and report back.

Ehwmatt wrote:

Don wrote:Here's a question.

In the studio recording, is the opening keyboard riff for DSB played a half step down compared to the rest of the instrumental parts and vocals?

No. I think you are probably just hearing the chorus and other processing effects on the keys. On the studio version, they definitely had a heavy chorus effect going on those intro keys, and for technical reasons not worth explaining, chorus effect slightly detunes things to give it that shimmery watery sound, whether it be a chorused guitar or keys.

True. Definitely not tuned down in the studio. I play this one a lot on keys.

The_Noble_Cause wrote:

Ehwmatt wrote:You wouldn't happen to know where to hear that, would you? I'd like to check. If you don't, did you check the audio with an instrument when you heard it (not sure if you play anything TNC)? I really thought they NEVER tuned down once with Augeri.

Maybe Casinorama, Ontario, from 2004? I will dig it up and report back.

Casinorama, Ontario, from June 30, 2004...(Separate Ways)...

https://hotfile.com/dl/163517425/a6e7d1 ... s.mp3.html

tater1977 wrote:

The_Noble_Cause wrote:

Ehwmatt wrote:You wouldn't happen to know where to hear that, would you? I'd like to check. If you don't, did you check the audio with an instrument when you heard it (not sure if you play anything TNC)? I really thought they NEVER tuned down once with Augeri.

Maybe Casinorama, Ontario, from 2004? I will dig it up and report back.

Casinorama, Ontario, from June 30, 2004...(Separate Ways)...

https://hotfile.com/dl/163517425/a6e7d1 ... s.mp3.html

Standard tuning, but it does sound weird.

Ehwmatt wrote:

tater1977 wrote:

The_Noble_Cause wrote:

Ehwmatt wrote:You wouldn't happen to know where to hear that, would you? I'd like to check. If you don't, did you check the audio with an instrument when you heard it (not sure if you play anything TNC)? I really thought they NEVER tuned down once with Augeri.

Maybe Casinorama, Ontario, from 2004? I will dig it up and report back.

Casinorama, Ontario, from June 30, 2004...(Separate Ways)...

https://hotfile.com/dl/163517425/a6e7d1 ... s.mp3.html

Standard tuning, but it does sound weird.

Nope. Not the one. I will keep digging.

Would speeding up the tempo of a song also help the singer? I ask because one of my favorite bands back in the 80's was Air Supply and it seems that in the mid to late 90's they would speed up the tempo on some of the songs they were singing live and I wondered if they did that because it was becoming a bit more challenging for them to sing those notes. Speeding up the songs would allow them to not have to hit the high notes as long maybe.

The Sushi Hunter wrote:Would speeding up the tempo of a song also help the singer? I ask because one of my favorite bands back in the 80's was Air Supply and it seems that in the mid to late 90's they would speed up the tempo on some of the songs they were singing live and I wondered if they did that because it was becoming a bit more challenging for them to sing those notes. Speeding up the songs would allow them to not have to hit the high notes as long maybe.

Yes, it can definitely help. See, e.g., The Raised on Radio tour, where Perry's voice was in steep decline. Those songs were played LIGHTNING fast.

Ehwmatt wrote:

The Sushi Hunter wrote:Would speeding up the tempo of a song also help the singer? I ask because one of my favorite bands back in the 80's was Air Supply and it seems that in the mid to late 90's they would speed up the tempo on some of the songs they were singing live and I wondered if they did that because it was becoming a bit more challenging for them to sing those notes. Speeding up the songs would allow them to not have to hit the high notes as long maybe.

Yes, it can definitely help. See, e.g., The Raised on Radio tour, where Perry's voice was in steep decline. Those songs were played LIGHTNING fast.

Yeah, I've heard very few performances from the ROR tour that I'd consider to be any good.

Ehwmatt wrote:

The Sushi Hunter wrote:Would speeding up the tempo of a song also help the singer? I ask because one of my favorite bands back in the 80's was Air Supply and it seems that in the mid to late 90's they would speed up the tempo on some of the songs they were singing live and I wondered if they did that because it was becoming a bit more challenging for them to sing those notes. Speeding up the songs would allow them to not have to hit the high notes as long maybe.

Yes, it can definitely help. See, e.g., The Raised on Radio tour, where Perry's voice was in steep decline. Those songs were played LIGHTNING fast.

I always thought it was so they could play more songs in a shorter period of time. But it's interesting that it can help the vocalist to play the songs fast- maybe not holding some notes out as long??

I seen all of the Augeri tours. All were in the original key that I seen.