MR

Man oh man,

This is a damn good album. Decided to dust it off... glad I did! Seriously this is becoming one of my fav Journey releases.

It's a great album, but has too many songs and it starts down too much atthe end . Still, I love it and it usually makes it onto a few of my long car trips every year.

the ballads sucked, especially all the way.
(although the sultry song kiss me softly is one of journeys best)

the rockers were great, glad the country song on the US release was dropped for World Gone Wild and Nothing comes close.
get rid of lifetime of dreams, cains solo ballad and the pukyifing all the way and youve got a great, right up there with TBF

It's a good album, but there's too much mid-tempo middle of the road crap. It also has major sequencing issues. Who's bright idea was it to place "Lifetime of Dreams" "and "With Your Love" back-to-back? The openings to both songs sound identical. The track listings for Revelation and Eclipse are much much better: lean and mean, with one rock track right after another. If Andrew had not made the case for more rockers, then Arrival would have been really weak. It is also inexcusable not to have Remember Me on there somewhere. Overall, it's a classy post-Perry album in the mold of the ballad-heavy TBF. Yet, some of the song choices on Arrival lead me to believe that Sony's A&R guy (Kalodner) doesn't really understand what makes a good Journey album work. Some stuff ("Livin to Do", "Loved by You") just bogs the album down, and almost seems better suited for Cain or Schon solo releases. The new post-Perry lineup needed to establish that they weren't here to just fuck around. The album should've been nothing but Blades/Schon co-writes and maybe two ballads.

Good comments there TNC!

I'll just mostly be echoing previous sentiments, but if you dropped "All the way", "Loved by You" and 1 of "Lifetime of Dreams" or "With Your Love" - the album is much stronger.

"I'm not that way" has grown on me over the years.

Higher Place is one of their very best efforts ever. Period.

Since Remember Me wasn't on this, might as well re-work it and put it on the next album with Arnel...along with the 4 Red13 tracks better produced.

Arrival was an explosion of Schon's waiting for Journey to continue...not only were there 15 songs on the US+Jap release, but Mickey Thomas and Jack Blades featured another 5 cuts on their solo albums. And I like all of them...a lot, especially "To Touch the Sky".

I like this sequence better:

1. Higher Place  
2. Remember Me
3. Signs of Life  
4. Loved By You  
5. I Got a Reason  
6. Live and Breathe  
7. To Be Alive Again  
8. Nothin' Comes Close  
9. Kiss Me Softly  
10. All the Things  
11. World Gone Wild
12. We Will Meet Again

This is a great album, poorly mixed.

Shocked at the snubbing of "Livin to Do" by TNC and Shawn Pelata here. That's a great track for Journey fans!

TNC is spot on about Lifetime of Dreams and With Your Love sounding the same though. It took me at least a few months to keep them straight in the album order based on their nearly identical beginnings.

Ehwmatt wrote:Shocked at the snubbing of "Livin to Do" by TNC and Shawn Pelata here. That's a great track for Journey fans!

I don't think it's a bad song...neither are any of the others I left off my "fantasy" sequence. It's just that, IMO, the songs I picked are stronger.

Pelata wrote:I like this sequence better:

1. Higher Place  
2. Remember Me
3. Signs of Life  
4. Loved By You  
5. I Got a Reason  
6. Live and Breathe  
7. To Be Alive Again  
8. Nothin' Comes Close  
9. Kiss Me Softly  
10. I Got a Reason  
11. All the Things  
12. World Gone Wild
13. We Will Meet Again

So you love "I Got A Reason" that much you have it listed twice.

Not a bad order. I am listening to it now. I put "Livin' To Do" in place of #10.

The one track I always skip over is "Nothing Comes Close".

Remember Me should have been on this.

Squidward24 wrote:

Pelata wrote:I like this sequence better:

1. Higher Place  
2. Remember Me
3. Signs of Life  
4. Loved By You  
5. I Got a Reason  
6. Live and Breathe  
7. To Be Alive Again  
8. Nothin' Comes Close  
9. Kiss Me Softly  
10. All the Things  
11. World Gone Wild
12. We Will Meet Again

So you love "I Got A Reason" that much you have it listed twice.

Not a bad order. I am listening to it now. I put "Livin' To Do" in place of #10.

Whoops....I was wondering why I had 13 songs...LOL! Fixed.

The_Noble_Cause wrote:It's a good album, but there's too much mid-tempo middle of the road crap. It also has major sequencing issues. Who's bright idea was it to place "Lifetime of Dreams" "and "With Your Love" back-to-back? The openings to both songs sound identical. The track listings for Revelation and Eclipse are much much better: lean and mean, with one rock track right after another. If Andrew had not made the case for more rockers, then Arrival would have been really weak. It is also inexcusable not to have Remember Me on there somewhere. Overall, it's a classy post-Perry album in the mold of the ballad-heavy TBF. Yet, some of the song choices on Arrival lead me to believe that Sony's A&R guy (Kalodner) doesn't really understand what makes a good Journey album work. Some stuff ("Livin to Do", "Loved by You") just bogs the album down, and almost seems better suited for Cain or Schon solo releases. The new post-Perry lineup needed to establish that they weren't here to just fuck around. The album should've been nothing but Blades/Schon co-writes and maybe two ballads.

Agreed, but Cain should not have been excluded. I maintain that some of the best written songs come from him: "Every Generation", "Resonate", etc. A Blades/Cain/Schon collaborative effort would be formidable, eclipsing (pun intended) the Perry/Cain/Schon paradigm.

Gideon wrote: the Perry/Cain/Schon paradigm.

The Oxford English Dictionary defines the basic meaning of the term paradigm as "a pattern or model, an exemplar". The historian of science Thomas Kuhn gave it its contemporary meaning when he adopted the word to refer to the set of practices that define a scientific discipline at any particular period of time. In his book The Structure of Scientific Revolutions Kuhn defines a scientific paradigm as: "universally recognized scientific achievements that, for a time, provide model problems and solutions for a community of researchers", i.e.,

what is to be observed and scrutinized
the kind of questions that are supposed to be asked and probed for answers in relation to this subject
how these questions are to be structured
how the results of scientific investigations should be interpreted
how is an experiment to be conducted, and what equipment is available to conduct the experiment.

AR wrote:

Gideon wrote: the Perry/Cain/Schon paradigm.

The Oxford English Dictionary defines the basic meaning of the term paradigm as "a pattern or model, an exemplar". The historian of science Thomas Kuhn gave it its contemporary meaning when he adopted the word to refer to the set of practices that define a scientific discipline at any particular period of time. In his book The Structure of Scientific Revolutions Kuhn defines a scientific paradigm as: "universally recognized scientific achievements that, for a time, provide model problems and solutions for a community of researchers", i.e.,

what is to be observed and scrutinized
the kind of questions that are supposed to be asked and probed for answers in relation to this subject
how these questions are to be structured
how the results of scientific investigations should be interpreted
how is an experiment to be conducted, and what equipment is available to conduct the experiment.

Ehwmatt wrote:Shocked at the snubbing of "Livin to Do" by TNC and Shawn Pelata here. That's a great track for Journey fans!

I think it's a great track, but not for a comeback album. Like "Walking Away from the Edge", "Livin to Do" is bluesy, plaintive, and to be credited for tackling themes more mature than the standard rock ballad. Unfortunately, Arrival's ballad to rock ratio is heavily skewed toward ballads, so while LTD may have the potential to stand out, on Arrival is just serves to slow down the flow and kill the energy.

Gideon wrote:Agreed, but Cain should not have been excluded. I maintain that some of the best written songs come from him: "Every Generation", "Resonate", etc.

I don't think either of those songs are in the league of Higher Place, Never Too Late, Got a Reason, World Gone Wild, Remember Me etc. Those are Journey songs with balls and taken to the next level. Without outside help, Cain/Schon sometimes score a winner (see The Place in Your Heart), but something's lacking.

Escape Artist wrote:Man oh man,

This is a damn good album. Decided to dust it off... glad I did! Seriously this is becoming one of my fav Journey releases.

Arrival is damn good. Too ballad heavy. Should of had Remember Me on it. SAs best recording and finest hour in Journey. With a few minor changes(that have already been mentioned) it would have been a great Journey album.

Start to finish, there's only three albums I think are on par with Arrival: Escape, Frontiers, and Infinity. I might include Captured, since it was my introduction to the band and still a personal favorite, but selecting a live record felt like cheating to me. Surprisingly enough to me, Revelation now ranks among my favorites from the band as well.

livin2do wrote:Start to finish, there's only three albums I think are on par with Arrival: Escape, Frontiers, and Infinity. I might include Captured, since it was my introduction to the band and still a personal favorite, but selecting a live record felt like cheating to me. Surprisingly enough to me, Revelation now ranks among my favorites from the band as well.

What are your thoughts on Eclipse, Matt?

Rick wrote:

livin2do wrote:Start to finish, there's only three albums I think are on par with Arrival: Escape, Frontiers, and Infinity. I might include Captured, since it was my introduction to the band and still a personal favorite, but selecting a live record felt like cheating to me. Surprisingly enough to me, Revelation now ranks among my favorites from the band as well.

What are your thoughts on Eclipse, Matt?

Rick, you don't ask people that in public, if you want an honest answer.

I still love it more than Revelation....but we've derailed the Arrival thread.

For me Arrival is a better album than Trial By Fire. I play it more.

steveo777 wrote:

Rick wrote:

livin2do wrote:Start to finish, there's only three albums I think are on par with Arrival: Escape, Frontiers, and Infinity. I might include Captured, since it was my introduction to the band and still a personal favorite, but selecting a live record felt like cheating to me. Surprisingly enough to me, Revelation now ranks among my favorites from the band as well.

What are your thoughts on Eclipse, Matt?

Rick, you don't ask people that in public, if you want an honest answer.

I still love it more than Revelation....but we've derailed the Arrival thread.

For me Arrival is a better album than Trial By Fire. I play it more.

You don't know who Matt is, do you?

Rick wrote:

steveo777 wrote:

Rick wrote:

livin2do wrote:Start to finish, there's only three albums I think are on par with Arrival: Escape, Frontiers, and Infinity. I might include Captured, since it was my introduction to the band and still a personal favorite, but selecting a live record felt like cheating to me. Surprisingly enough to me, Revelation now ranks among my favorites from the band as well.

What are your thoughts on Eclipse, Matt?

Rick, you don't ask people that in public, if you want an honest answer.

I still love it more than Revelation....but we've derailed the Arrival thread.

For me Arrival is a better album than Trial By Fire. I play it more.

You don't know who Matt is, do you?

Probably related to Neal, but I don't think he changed his diapers. It's more of a step dad kind of thing. Am I warm?

steveo777 wrote:

Rick wrote:

steveo777 wrote:

Rick wrote:

livin2do wrote:Start to finish, there's only three albums I think are on par with Arrival: Escape, Frontiers, and Infinity. I might include Captured, since it was my introduction to the band and still a personal favorite, but selecting a live record felt like cheating to me. Surprisingly enough to me, Revelation now ranks among my favorites from the band as well.

What are your thoughts on Eclipse, Matt?

Rick, you don't ask people that in public, if you want an honest answer.

I still love it more than Revelation....but we've derailed the Arrival thread.

For me Arrival is a better album than Trial By Fire. I play it more.

You don't know who Matt is, do you?

Probably related to Neal, but I don't think he changed his diapers. It's more of a step dad kind of thing. Am I warm?

Castles burning................

yulog wrote:

steveo777 wrote:

Rick wrote:

steveo777 wrote:

Rick wrote:

livin2do wrote:Start to finish, there's only three albums I think are on par with Arrival: Escape, Frontiers, and Infinity. I might include Captured, since it was my introduction to the band and still a personal favorite, but selecting a live record felt like cheating to me. Surprisingly enough to me, Revelation now ranks among my favorites from the band as well.

What are your thoughts on Eclipse, Matt?

Rick, you don't ask people that in public, if you want an honest answer.

I still love it more than Revelation....but we've derailed the Arrival thread.

For me Arrival is a better album than Trial By Fire. I play it more.

You don't know who Matt is, do you?

Probably related to Neal, but I don't think he changed his diapers. It's more of a step dad kind of thing. Am I warm?

Castles burning................

Yep, and I can't find that interview anywhere now.

Rick wrote:Yep, and I can't find that interview anywhere now.

You're right. Damn. The link is dead. There goes lots of hidden Journey history.
This was the interview where Herbie said Perry used to shanghai people for drugs, or something like that.
Wonder if Perry and his fleet of attorneys had it pulled down?

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