MR

I was bored late last night and was reading some old posts from 2005ish. A lot of you were saying that Generations was easily the best since Frontiers, a few even said since Infinity. The album was extremely well-received at that time. People unanimously said it's better than Arrival. Do you guys still listen to it/appreciate it?

These 7 are on my iPod and enjoy semi-frequent rotation:

Faith in the Heartland
The Place In Your Heart
A Better Life
Every Generation
Out of Harm's Way
Beyond the Clouds
Never Too Late

Of the 7, I think 'Out of Harm's Way' is the weakest. Neal's solo there and in FITH suck pretty bad compared to his usual output. 'Every Generation' is my favorite and one of Journey's best. Jon's vocals are the weakest element of the song, obviously, but the lyrics are so good and musicianship so tight that it helps compensate. Writing-wise, I think it's one of their strongest efforts.

No.

Andrew wrote:No.

To me or the thread in general?

I usually agree and respect Andrew's reviews, but his 91% for Gens was being very generous.
There is some good stuff on the album, but the Augeri solo tracks are horrid and the overall cd just seems directionless and slapdash - especially after the classy and triumphant Arrival. Even the artwork is amateur hour. In hindsight, Augeri and Deen should've been the only two singers.

If I was producing the album (yeh right) here is my track list:

Faith In The Heartland
The Place In Your Heart
A Better Life
Where did I Lose Your Love (Jeremey said an Augeri demo version of this existed)
Knowing That You Love Me
Out Of Harms Way
Better Together
Never Too Late
Have a Good Time (played live on the Arrival tour, never recorded)

Bonus track (Gone Crazy -Augeri version - this was written around the time of Arrival. I believe SA described it as being "Zepplinish")
Throw in a few more Arrival rejects (like the ones Mickey Thomas ended up recording) and u have a knockout nu-AOR classic.

To the band's credit, Revelation and Eclipse are both solid and well-sequenced. Same with SoulSirkus. When Neal actually gives a shit about a project, it shows.

Gideon wrote:Writing-wise, I think it's one of their strongest efforts.

Especially the "Na-na-na-nanna-nanna-na" ending, right?
Let's get real. Jonathan Cain is the Norman Rockwell of songwriting. All cliched Americana crud.
Only Neal's soaring guitar manages to give "Every Generation" some rock edge.
Nice Cain solo tune, but Journey can do better.

Archetype wrote:I was bored late last night and was reading some old posts from 2005ish. A lot of you were saying that Generations was easily the best since Frontiers, a few even said since Infinity. The album was extremely well-received at that time. People unanimously said it's better than Arrival. Do you guys still listen to it/appreciate it?

It was my favorite Journey album since Frontiers. Eclipse has surpassed it on my list. But Generations is still my second favorite since Frontiers.

The_Noble_Cause wrote:

Gideon wrote:Writing-wise, I think it's one of their strongest efforts.

Especially the "Na-na-na-nanna-nanna-na" ending, right?
Let's get real. Jonathan Cain is the Norman Rockwell of songwriting. All cliched Americana crud.
Only Neal's soaring guitar manages to give "Every Generation" some rock edge.
Nice Cain solo tune, but Journey can do better.

That's cool, but that does nothing to undermine the idea that the lyrics are some of the best they've written: there's actually a pretty cogent message to the song, as opposed to shit like "La Do Da", "Any Way You Want It", etc. and devoid of the typical Journey tropes: use of the word "lovin'", "state of grace", etc. It breaks the mold and succeeds.

TNC's point is salient for me: at the time, I was ANGRY as hell about this album because it was following up one of the band's finest hours in Arrival.

But nearly 7.5 years later (wow...), I can sit here and say some of the tracks really stand out to me: FITH, Place In Your Heart, Out of Harm's Way, Never Too Late, and the superb Beyond The Clouds. It's not nearly as bad an album as initially thought.

Plus, that whole summer was legendary for me. I've had a LOT of unbelievably great things happen to me in the last 7.5 years, but pound for pound, that summer of 2005 was great--perhaps the best time of my life overall. Don't get me wrong--I'm not one to hearken back to the "good old days" every time I enter a new phase of my life, either. For example, I loved college, but when I graduated, I was done. I didn't need to call my buddies and whine about it for months (like my buddies did me, LOL).

But there was just something about that completely carefree summer that I think will make it one of the best times of my life forever. I know there will be more monumental life events (and some of them have already happened for me) whose significance will far outstrip a bunch of teenagers getting drunk and going to concerts, but this was just a great time. I was in between high school and college, making real money for the first time in my life, buying cool new guitars with some of it, playing gigs with my buddies, drinking nearly every night til 3 and waking up to work at 7, dating a pretty hot girl, seeing tons of concerts (including the Gens tour 3 times and a Journey-Dream Theater back-to-back night event which at the time was my 2 favorite bands), and I just didn't have a care in the world. It was the last summer I got to spend with a lot of my closest friends, the closest whom I've known since we started kindergarten together. Sure, after that, we were home for summers and what not (or some of us were, at least), but it was never the same after that. So no matter what happened with Tapegate afterwards, that entire year is cool as far as I'm concerned. And now, Generations is undeniably linked to that time period. So I have more fondness for it than I initially did.

While I don't listen to the entire CD anymore, there are 4 songs which are still in regular rotation:
A Better Life
Knowing That You Love Me
The Place In Your Heart
Never Too Late

Has it stood the test of time...? Not really in my opinion. Revelation, however, will do so I believe. There are so many strong, strong performances on that album. There isn't a single song that stands out as being weak - even the re-records are crisp and polished. It's 3 years younger than Generations so ask the same question again when it's 7 years old and we'll compare.

I don't think it's stood up very well at all. I listened to it for the first time in several years just the other day, and it's a skip fest for me! The songs I like from it are:

Place In Your Heart
A Better Life
It's Never Too Late
Knowing That You Love Me

That's about all I'll listen to off the CD.

It has some truly great tunes, but also contains some pretty bad ones.

Great:
Faith in the Heartland (All-time Journey classic)
Place in your Heart
Out of Harms Way
Beyond the Clouds
Never Too Late (Should be given another chance)

And Schon's solo in "Every Generation" IS amazing.

I remember mentioning it when it was released and still feel the same way about the album. It's got a couple great tracks, a few really good tracks, and a lot of garbage tracks.

The Great:

Faith In The Heartland (IMO one of the strongest tracks by the band post Perry)
Beyond the Clouds (I love the harmonies between Dean and Steve)
Never Too Late

Good:

The Place In Your Heart
A Better Life
Every Generation
Out Of Harms Way
In Self Defense
Gone Crazy (I might be one of the few who doesn't think this is a terrible track)

Bad:

Everything else

Could've been a great album if they let Augeri sing everything or let Dean sing more tracks. What really brought Every Generation down was Cain's weak ass voice other wise it was a solid track. Also I think it's their last decent release because the tracks for the most part at least have some soul to them. Arnel's songs to my ear sound like they had their balls snipped off.

There's some really good stuff on the album, but it has a bad case of being thrown together at the last minute, and is in dire need of a producer. Not everything that comes out of Cain/Schon is necessarily "Journey" material, and you really start veering away when you let everyone sing lead vocals. If you take the best of Red 13 (with a bit of re-writes to make it "Journey"), Generations, and the material that was considered for that album, there's a good cd in there.

Here's how I would do it....
Faith in the Heartland
A Place in Your Heart
A Better Life
Walking Away From the Edge
Every Generation (redone with Augeri taking lead on the chorus....ala Perry/Rolie style)
The Time (keep the verses, and rewrite the chorus)
One World (outtake released by Mickey Thomas...use Augeri vocal)
Out of Harm's Way
It's Never Too Late
Beyond the Clouds

There's 10 songs that serve as the dark, moody counterpoint to the lighter Arrival. Pick a producer to tie it all together, and you end up with a very good album.
Kevin

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
If I was producing the album (yeh right) here is my track list:

Where did I Lose Your Love (Jeremey said an Augeri demo version of this existed)

It would have worked well there.....IF it was recorded before the album was completed. It could have easily been written during the Generations tour (or over the next winter).

I've always played Generations & played it a good while during a certain time period. I think it's not that bad of a record either than some say it is. Like most have already said here, most tracks stand out to me and the album really rocks in some spots. Better than the average record, that's for sure. Not sure about the effort, but it was a job well done all things considered (Augeri's ailing voice, Neal's problems, etc.)

Archetype wrote:I was bored late last night and was reading some old posts from 2005ish. A lot of you were saying that Generations was easily the best since Frontiers, a few even said since Infinity. The album was extremely well-received at that time. People unanimously said it's better than Arrival. Do you guys still listen to it/appreciate it?

That's a different history then I remember. I know it wasn't unanimously anything. I know there were some who thought it was mediocre, or worse. I always argued that point. Then there was all the talk about "Butterfly". There was never an exclusive love fest for Generations.

There were a few songs on it that I really like. The production was horrible. The alternate vocalists were 'interesting' but not impressive for Journey. IMO, it was a missed opportunity...it seemed like it was only half-baked. They should have taken their time and done it right.

Monker wrote:

Archetype wrote:I was bored late last night and was reading some old posts from 2005ish. A lot of you were saying that Generations was easily the best since Frontiers, a few even said since Infinity. The album was extremely well-received at that time. People unanimously said it's better than Arrival. Do you guys still listen to it/appreciate it?

That's a different history then I remember. I know it wasn't unanimously anything. I know there were some who thought it was mediocre, or worse. I always argued that point. Then there was all the talk about "Butterfly". There was never an exclusive love fest for Generations.

There were a few songs on it that I really like. The production was horrible. The alternate vocalists were 'interesting' but not impressive for Journey. IMO, it was a missed opportunity...it seemed like it was only half-baked. They should have taken their time and done it right.

Yup. I think if you read this forum you would have seen a lot of disagreement over how well it was liked. The reviews posted with Andrews were generally much more positive.

The_Noble_Cause wrote:I usually agree and respect Andrew's reviews, but his 91% for Gens was being very generous.

Agree 100%

I got that one wrong. 80%

Andrew wrote:

The_Noble_Cause wrote:I usually agree and respect Andrew's reviews, but his 91% for Gens was being very generous.

Agree 100%

I got that one wrong. 80%

Where do you stand on Eclipse these days? ( Not being a smart ass here, as I still love the album )

steveo777 wrote:

Andrew wrote:

The_Noble_Cause wrote:I usually agree and respect Andrew's reviews, but his 91% for Gens was being very generous.

Agree 100%

I got that one wrong. 80%

Where do you stand on Eclipse these days? ( Not being a smart ass here, as I still love the album )

Still stand by the 100. Love it. A misunderstood masterpiece.

I rarely consider rewriting history - especially my reviews - but the generations one is one I have always felt I got wrong after the album faded quickly after the review period.

Andrew wrote:

steveo777 wrote:

Andrew wrote:

The_Noble_Cause wrote:I usually agree and respect Andrew's reviews, but his 91% for Gens was being very generous.

Agree 100%

I got that one wrong. 80%

Where do you stand on Eclipse these days? ( Not being a smart ass here, as I still love the album )

Still stand by the 100. Love it. A misunderstood masterpiece.

I rarely consider rewriting history - especially my reviews - but the generations one is one I have always felt I got wrong after the album faded quickly after the review period.

Is Revelation the best record since Perry? I think it is.

Monker wrote:

Archetype wrote:I was bored late last night and was reading some old posts from 2005ish. A lot of you were saying that Generations was easily the best since Frontiers, a few even said since Infinity. The album was extremely well-received at that time. People unanimously said it's better than Arrival. Do you guys still listen to it/appreciate it?

That's a different history then I remember. I know it wasn't unanimously anything. I know there were some who thought it was mediocre, or worse. I always argued that point. Then there was all the talk about "Butterfly". There was never an exclusive love fest for Generations.

There were a few songs on it that I really like. The production was horrible. The alternate vocalists were 'interesting' but not impressive for Journey. IMO, it was a missed opportunity...it seemed like it was only half-baked. They should have taken their time and done it right.

You're welcome to go back to the old threads and look. The one is titled "Arrival vs Generations" or something like that. Arrival gets no love at all.

Best Non-Perry releases in my order:

Eclipse
Arrival
Revelation
Generations
Red 13 EP

Andrew wrote:Best Non-Perry releases in my order:

Eclipse
Arrival
Revelation
Generations
Red 13 EP

pretty close here....I'd switch Arrival and Eclipse IF you cut Arrival down to the same number of songs. Get rid of a few songs and add Remember Me, and Arrival stands out pretty well. Revelation is good, but VERY safe, and Generations feels like half an album.

kgdjpubs wrote:

Andrew wrote:Best Non-Perry releases in my order:

Eclipse
Arrival
Revelation
Generations
Red 13 EP

pretty close here....I'd switch Arrival and Eclipse IF you cut Arrival down to the same number of songs. Get rid of a few songs and add Remember Me, and Arrival stands out pretty well. Revelation is good, but VERY safe, and Generations feels like half an album.

You bet.

I'd just move Eclipse to the bottom... it's the most un-Journey post-Perry album they've done.

Arrival
Revelation
Generations
Red 13 EP
Eclipse

slucero wrote:I'd just move Eclipse to the bottom... it's the most un-Journey post-Perry album they've done.

Arrival
Revelation
Generations
Red 13 EP
Eclipse

+1


later~

slucero wrote:I'd just move Eclipse to the bottom... it's the most un-Journey post-Perry album they've done.

Arrival
Revelation
Generations
Red 13 EP
Eclipse

Id have to go

Arrival
revelation
eclipse
Generatons
red 13

Got to say other than FITH which I think is as good as any other journey song, Generations doesn't do that much for me.

kgdjpubs wrote: Pick a producer to tie it all together, and you end up with a very good album.

They had a producer. Kevin Elson (also their road sound guy at the time) produced it. Clearly he lost something from the days of producing Escape and Frontiers. Some choices just make you scratch your head... with A-material already in short supply, why on earth leave Never Too Late off the initial domestic release? Huge chorus, huge Journey song.